Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: Cassie273 on May 10, 2018, 11:36:49 AM
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Hi everyone, I am fairly new here and don't post much but have found the advice and threads very very helpful so far. I have been really struggling with VA for about 8 months and am at my wit's end. I would really appreciate some help and advice please.
My problem is that I have had constant discharge for months now. I have been to a specialist menopause clinic and had swabs for various infections but nothing has been found. I went onto Vagifem about 3 months ago and have found that it has eased the VA symptoms, except for the discharge - which, if anything, it seems to make worse! The discharge is not smelly or coloured - its just constant!
I have also started the Mona Lisa Touch laser treatment and have so far had 2 out of 3 sessions. This has really made a big difference to the internal dryness and irritation, but has not (as yet) made any difference to the entrance to the vagina which is extremely painful for intercourse, or the constant discharge, which leaves other bits of me feeling really sore. The only thing I can say is that the discharge seemed originally to be coming from higher up in the vagina and now after MLT seems to be lower down. Will it go completely after the course of 3 treatments?
I am really truly at my wit's end with this. I find it hard to concentrate on anything else - it's there all the time and it is distracting and exhausting.
I would be really grateful for any advice or opinions on this. Is it too soon to be assuming that the MLT will not make a difference to the discharge? Should I stop using the Vagifem? Has anyone else had the same problem with constant discharge?
A big thank you in advance for any help you can give!
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I probably should have added more info to this post - I am 45, have had menopause symptoms for over 5 years and it took 3 visits to the GP to get them to take me seriously and test for perimenopause :'( They initially put me on Femoston 1/10 which was okay for a short while but then my symptoms started to come back. I insisted on a referral to the local menopause clinic where they upped the dose to 2/10 and prescribed Vagifem. Everything else is a LOT better but the VA symptoms and discharge are really getting me down. I've read here that VA is for the rest of my life which is pretty depressing at the age of 45, frankly.
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VA has been my main symptom and I need systemic HRT, Vagifem and I also use Ovestin on the outside bits.
I would suggest giving some Ovestin a try.
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Hi Cassie 273,
A watery discharge is often one of the symptoms of VA. I certainly wouldn't stop the Vagifem, and I wonder if you are using enough. I don't imagine it would actually be causing the discharge.
Some people need far more than the recommended dose of two Vagifem a week and use it nightly. The pessaries used to contain 25 mcg estradiol but now only contain 10 mcg. (The manufacturer perhaps reduced the dose for commercial reasons so that patients would have to use twice as many!)
I agree with Tinkerbell that you could try some Ovestin for the outside bits. If very sore you might prefer to start with the generic estriol cream instead as, although it contains less estriol than Ovestin, it is a less 'solid' cream and easier to smear on. You could then add in a bit of Ovestin as things improve.
As to the MLT, few MM members seem to have tried it, although hopefully those who have will be along soon to advise. Maryjane has had successful treatment, so I hope she might see your post. Are you able to contact your MLT therapist to ask about the discharge?
It is depressing that VA is for the rest of one's life, but once symptoms are under control it becomes routine to keep it that way, like brushing your hair or cleaning your teeth, a bit of a bore but much better than the alternative!
All the best,
JP x
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Thanks so much for responding, TinkerBell and JP. I have an appointment with the GP next week so will ask about getting Ovestin cream to use as well as the Vagifem. In the meantime, I think I will try the Vagifem nightly and see if I can contact the gynae who is doing the MLT to see if she has any advice.
I have been thinking about posting about this for quite a while - was a bit shy about it - but just getting some support makes such a difference so thank you 😊
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How many times a week are you using the Vagifem? Don't be shy, if it wasn't for posting/reading this site I dread to think what condition re the VA I would now be in!
I also got VA from an relatively early age, 47 ish but now at 54 I have it really well controlled and I rarely think about it, routine of treatments/ picking up prescriptions is a bit of a pain but it's worth it for a normal pain free life.
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Hi TinkerBell
I initially used it once a day for 2 weeks, then 3 times a week for a couple of weeks, then down to twice a week.
It sounds great to have the VA under control - I am aspiring to get there but feeling very down about it at the moment. It just seems to go in waves of okay then horrid and I never seem to get to a steady state.
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I use vagifem every morning and ovestin every night, YES waterbased lubricant, YES oil based vaginal moisturisor after going to the toilet and wash in cetraben cream. Watery discharge is a symptom of VA you may need to up your dosage. Sometimes all these things take a while to work and sometimes we still have blips, stress seems to also not help.
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You may need to use the Vagifem far more frequently, I could never manage on twice a week. I tried to manage on five a week, Gp said many of her ladies needed that amount for control. I need to use it every day, fortunately GP is happy to prescribe it, I am also on quite a high dose of estrogel too, I need it all just to control the VA.
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Hi 😊 the club no one wants to be a member of 😏.
I year ago about now I had my first MLT , I needed 5 , 3 internal 5 external. It has helped hugely I am NOT cured but it has made the skin quality far superior and also has allowed the vagifem to work much better, I also need HRT all for my VA.
I also moisturise twice a day with a product called Olive and Bee it's literally just olive oil and honey , owned by a women's health physio. I also use emuaid and a product called v-magic not at the same time but I rotate , as this was advised by my gynae to not build up a sensitivity to one product , however what I use I 100% pure and can be eaten , lots of ladies in my group love emu oil.
I had episiotomies on the verge of splitting and had come to the end of the road.
The watery discharge is very much a sign of VA , mime was running out of me.
I also admin a secret FB page where there are 555 of us with VA , and a wealth of advise and support , same as her also obviously, but as there are some extremes of VA and is proving to be a lifeline for many.
Quite a few ladies from here in the group , so,if you wan to join let me know , as it's secret it's quite complicated to find me it.
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Wow, thank you all SO much for your kind and helpful responses.
MaryJane - I would be hugely grateful to be added to your secret FB group as I really feel so very very alone in managing this. So far all the doctors have been pretty unsympathetic (except the MLT gynae) and I haven't felt able to discuss the discharge issue with anyone. And yes, it was literally running out of me until the second MLT - it has improved but is still enough to send me completely round the twist.
I am now going to use the Vagifem every night until I see the GP next week when I will be requesting additional amounts of Vagifem and ovestin cream. Please cross everything that she's sympathetic!
Deirdre, I am really interested in your view that stress makes it worse as I have found the same - unfortunately stress is quite a big part of my job although I am trying to manage it a bit better now.
TinkerBell - what is estrogel please? Is that another name for the ovestin cream?
Sorry to be a bit clueless but I feel as though I was literally dumped right into menopause symptoms with no help or support and I am really just feeling my way through this horrendous maze.
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Estrogel is systemic HRT, I can't take tablets and patches don't suit so I use that with the Mirena for the progesterone component.
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What goes up .............. ;)
Is the discharge enough to require a pad? Are you sexually active?
Browse round, we have threads about most issues on here, especially VA [My Bladder etc.].
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Yes CLKD, I need a panty liner most days.
Define “sexually active†;D...I'm married but not seeing a lot of action in that department as my husband doesn't want to hurt me or put pressure on me. We're also pretty knackered much of the time from work pressures which doesn't help.
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That might be the reason for the discharge ;).
Also as hormones dip and rise the body gets confused ::)
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I also seem to be getting recurrent thrush infections as well - does anyone have any words of wisdom on how to manage this as well?
Presumably I shouldn't use canesten pessaries at the same time as a Vagifem pessary. So do you stop using Vagifem for just one night?
Is there a chance that the Vagifem could be causing the yeast infection? I am going absolutely potty with all the stuff happening "down below" at the moment. I have never had anywhere near this extent of problems before - half the time I am just trying to work out what I need to treat next!
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It is 'thrush'? Canestan really upset my bits, caused instant pain, soreness, redness and itchy. My Practice Nurse had a look-see 3 days later and it wasn't thrush. As oestrogen levels drop off the skin may become thin which will cause itching, including the vaginal region.
4 me thrush is intense itching high up, too high to reach. I have found that LIVE yoghurt is soothing, eaten and applied ;-)
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If it is thrush you could you could use one of the oral treatments instead.
I would also like to add that in the early days of my VA problems the doctor kept fobbing me off saying it was thrush.
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Hello Cassie
I have been on hrt patches since last May for many meno symptoms including burning, sore bladder/ vagina with drippy wet discharge... the systemic hrt didn't really help much with VA so after a battle I got vagifem in August (Dr didn't think I should need both). Initially I didn't think vagifem was helping.... burning pain, constant weeing...felt like a bee sting on outside bits, hot poker inside..also itchy (thought like you...is it thrush?)used loads of pessaries still no better. I have tried most things, coconut oil, silk, Yes, multi-gyn actigel...but only getting temporary relief if anything ...went back to the GP who said all looked ok no sign of thrushy discharge but I asked her to take a swab anyway....came back as thrush. So she put me on a 3 month course of oral flucanazole (so no irritation to vagina) so I took those and just persevered with the vagifem (also tried Ovestin cream but no less irritating). It is now May so 9 months of vagifem (stopped thrush treatment) and I'm just getting somewhere. I now only have minor urethral irritation in the morning... before I couldn't sit or walk without discomfort. I use 3 vagifem a week sometimes more, Yes as a moisturiser and actigel if I feel an itch (and after sex) I think my vagina was in such a thin oestrogen deprived state that it has taken all this time to improve... the flora was so “off†that it couldn't keep thrush at bay. Keep going ...use all the things everyone suggests you will get better but I do know how you feel. I'm 48 xxx
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To be honest, I'm not sure it IS thrush! I genuinely don't know what's what any more!! I had a high vaginal swab at the clinic in February which found nothing except some thrush which I did treat at that point with tablet, cream and pessary. I have used thrush pessaries intermittently since then - get some symptomatic relief only for the thin, watery discharge to return and then periodically thicker, itchier discharge which I was assuming was a recurrence of thrush. But I have been a bit "off and on" with the Vagifem as I haven't been sure what is causing what. I'm so totally confused.
Zara69 - your experience is really helpful and I can see that I will need to persevere with the Vagifem for a lot longer if I'm going to see any change.
I'm exhausted by all this. Why can't it just be a bit easier??
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Maybe because you keep swapping what you are using? Do read the threads on here about atrophy and the 'burning club'. This is a life-required treatment. Some ladies do need Vagifem every night, sometimes 2 doses at once.
Maybe try LIVE yoghurt. A large spoonful every evening and mid-morning to cleanse the digestive tract. It won't do any harm and may improve your gut flora. Thrush lives in the back passage which can be passed from back to front if one isn't careful: who designed us :bang: - not a good idea to put all those important parts together :rant:. I have found LIVE yoghurt applied down there soothing .......... ;)
I would use the vagifem every night for 2 weeks. I use KY Jelly on the outer lips to keep everything moist which stops it drying out. Yoghurt when the itching is intense. If necessary pushed up with a tampon. Once you get relief, do keep to the regime!
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Thank you CLKD - sage advice and I wish I had posted sooner about this instead of being embarrassed and shy. I have taken a thrush tablet this afternoon and will carry on with the Vagifem daily for 2 weeks at least.
Have a great weekend everyone and thanks so much for all the sympathy and support.
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Cassie I have messaged you. 😊
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No need to be embarrassed on here ;)
Nothing is taboo, or too much information etc..
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Hi Maryjane if you see this can you join me to your Facebook group please? X
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Zara69 messaged you.
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A HUGE thank you to everyone who replied to me on this thread. I have taken on board a lot of the advice and made the following changes:
- gone back to using Vagifem every day
- started using emu oil on my lady bits
- got a probiotic for women's genito-urinary issues
- started eating a bio yoghurt each day
- started using E45 shower cream
- I also took a thrush capsule as well
And I finally broke down yesterday and had a full and frank conversation with my husband about it all, who was hugely sympathetic and supportive. I find this stuff hugely difficult to talk about. I come from a background where we girls didn't really talk about our lady bits and other than a bit of trimming the garden hedge, there wasn't anything else we did to maintain them. Way before the days of vajazzling or Brazilian waxing! So talking about this stuff is really hard. It took me a long time to work up the courage to post about this and I really want to thank you all for being so supportive.
At the moment, things seem to be feeling a bit better and the discharge has lessened a bit over the past 2 days. I am feeling a lot less desperate now.
Hope you all have a great week.
Cassie273
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That is such good news! I grew up in the 1960s when periods were talked about in hushed tones.
Is the yoghurt LIVE culture? that's the important part ........ not all yoghurts are.
Let us know how you get on!
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Hi everyone
A further update as you were all so lovely to provide support and wisdom. Things are a LOT better now! I have done Vagifem every day for 3 weeks and am just about to go onto every other day. I've also had my third Mona Lisa Touch treatment and will be having a fourth to focus on the entry to the vagina and the outer bits. I also got some probiotics for female "issues" and am eating a live greek yoghurt every day. Still having some discharge but it is far far better than it was, infections seem to have gone and everything is comfortable for now.
I really am grateful for all the advice and support on here - I was so desperate when I posted and much less so now!
C273 x
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Hi Cassie 273, thanks so much for the update, and I am very pleased that things are getting better for you. After you have had the fourth MLT, please do let us know if you get further improvement. It is the vaginal entrance and labia in that area that are my particular problem, and I'm considering the MLT myself, so I'll be very interested to know if it helps. Did you get much discomfort just after the treatments?
Thanks again,
JPx
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Cassie273 - I'd stop using the thrush pessary - these an be very irritating for our ‘lady bits' adn don't always work that well. Multi Gyn Actigel is really good for preventing and treating BV and thrush that we all become prone to when meno hits. I use it a couple of times a week as a preventative but if things feel itch or sore I use it 2-3 times a day for 2 days and it tends to clear things nicely. I also find using the Multi Gyn the morning after I've used Vagifem really helps - the pessary often dissolves but leaves some residue that can be an irritant and it can feel as though you have thrush. Don't use any vaginal moisturisers or Multi Gyn at the same time as the Vagifem as this can prevent absorption - so use Vagifem at night and other things in the morning.
I love using SYLK but many find the YES products really good - regular moisturising of our lady bits is essential to maintain everything alongside the local oestrogen.
IF I were you I'd drop down to Vagifem 3-4 times a week, use vaginal moisturisers as suggested above and don't let that E45 shower wash anywhere near you ‘lady bits' - just wash the delicate area with water.
Avoid caffeine, alcohol and fruit juices but drink plenty of water. DG x
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Hi JP
Yes, the MLT treatment has made quite a big difference but yes, I did get bad irritation after the first two and have a bit after the third. The gynae who has been doing it for me has said that the vaginal entry is often the worst bit and most affected by VA, and it certainly is in my case but the MLT can be focused on the outer bits and that's what she will concentrate on for the 4th treatment.
So far, it hasn't cured me but it has made a huge difference and I do feel as though there is a treatment that does work and can help longer term. It's a big investment so you do want to be sure it is right for you, so I would recommend you have an appointment with a gynae who does MLT and discuss the pros and cons with them. Not many cons in my view except the cost!
Good luck x
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Thanks very much Cassie273, that's very helpful. Did you get your treatment in the London area?
JP x
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I do. I am going to the lovely Miss Amanda Tozer who was recommended by MaryJane on here. If you google her name you will find her. She is really great and very understanding and sympathetic. Oh we did have a snort and a laugh this week when I told her that my GP (female, mid-50s) said "have you tried lube?" to me when I asked for my repeat of vagifem…… I highly recommend Miss T - if only for the ability to empathise and understand what we're suffering with!!
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Thanks Cassie, I will look her up. It's nice to get a personal recommendation. My GP (male, 50s) seemed to think I might only need to use local oestrogen for a while, certainly not forever. Why he thought that I might suddenly start producing my own oestrogen at my age, late 60s and oophorectomized years ago, is still a mystery!
All the best,
JPx
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Oh, for heaven's sake!!!
The lack of menopause knowledge on the NHS is nothing short of shocking!
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Lack of joined up thinking too :bang: :bang: :bang:
Do you feel better down there?