Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Rubyjo on May 01, 2018, 07:03:11 PM
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Hi
I am new to this forum and looking for help and advice.
I'm 47 and three weeks ago whilst on holiday I started with the most horrendous vaginal itching and dryness. As I was unaware I was going through the menopause or pre menopause I thought I had thrush!
When I returned home still in severe discomfort, I saw my GP who said she thought it was the start of the menopause and that I had vaginal atrophy. She prescribed replens. Since then I have had a couple of almost normal days, a few days where I have been uncomfortable but been able to manage and several really bad days where it seems to control me.
I also have an under active thyroid which I am on medication for.
Other than that I'm fit, healthy and active and am very keen to to find a lasting solution that means I can carry on with my life as normal and not be irritated, snappy, not able to sleep etc.
I have also tried baking soda baths, not using any scented shower gel, cotton underwear and loose fitting clothes.
Any help and advice would be very much appreciated.
Kind regards
Rubyjo
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Hi Rubyjo and welcome to the forum. The best treatment for vaginal atrophy is local oestrogen, this is prescribed in tablet form as Vagifem or Ovestin and Gynest creams. Moisturisers such as Replens are often used as well as local oestrogen but most people need both.
If you post in the new members section I'm sure you will have a lot more ladies coming along to advice you.
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Hi and welcome to MM Ruby
You need local oestrogen treatment e.g. Vagifem and perhaps try other moisturisers which can be helpful e.g. SYLK or the YES products, as these tend to be less messy to use and can be used everyday. Multi Gyn Actigel is great for occasional use when you feel itchy or think BV or thrush is starting. To keep symptoms under control you need to keep the flora balance in the vagina right. Avoid caffeine, fruit juices and anything that is over acidic - cut out as much sugar as possible. A little lemon juice in water can neutralise urine and drinking a glass of water with half a teaspoon of bicarb can also be helpful if you urethra is burning. You also need to clean rarely well after opening your bowels.
Do check out the thread ‘The Burning Club' as this might help you :
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,22886.0.html
DG x
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Hi
Thank you both so much for your replies. I have been back to the GP this morning and got Vagifem and Sylk. My only two concerns are that all my itching is external so will the Vagifem help? How long will it be before I feel a difference if it's going to work for me?
Secondly, are the risks of breast cancer and heart disease a lot higher. Just worried as my father died of a heart attack and my grandma of breast cancer. I am very fit and active and have a good diet.
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Hi Dancinggirl
Will Multi Gyn Actigel help with itching around the vulva? Can I buy it in boots? I drink decaf coffee and green tea anyway but do like a few gin and tonics at the weekend! Thanks for the advice re fruit juices and bicarb.
Kind regards
Rubyjo
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Cut out the tannin I'm afraid - even decaf teas and coffees are acidic!!! As long as I drink plenty of water alongside I can get away with half a cup of white tea as a ‘pick me up'. Try cutting out all alcohol for a time. Multi Gyn Actigel can be bought online and will help with itching as it restores the flora balance - it can sting a bit when first applied but is then soothing. Coconut oil is also good at soothing things but won't restore the flora balance!!!! DG x
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Thanks, will do. Does green tea contain tannin? I'll just up the water intake, I drink about 3 litres per day at the moment. I'll buy some multi gyn actigel too.
Thanks again
Rubyjo
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What do you mean when you say are the risks of breast cancer and heart disease higher, do you mean because you are menopause age or because of the Vagifem being HRT?
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Hi Tinkerbell. My GP said there was an increased chance of breast cancer and heart disease associated with Vagifem, but far less than the full HRT treatment.
Kind regards
Rubyjo
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You can drink redbush tea Rubyjo it's completely caffeine free as it's not strictly a tea it's a herb but it's just like drinking tea,I prefer the vanilla redbush teabags from tetley and you certainly sleep like a baby on it it's so relaxing.Its one of the few drinks that doesn't irritate my bladder.xx
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Hi Daisydot
Thank you for this. I was just wondering how I would manage without green tea! I work from home so drink about 6 cups per day!!It's not my bladder just external itching at the moment!
I'll add it to my shopping list.
Thanks
Rubyjo
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Try the organic coconut oil from Holland and Barrett it's very cooling and soothing and certainly made a huge difference when I was bothered with itching as it's antibacterial and excellent at dealing with things like thrush,it's worth a try at only £2 for a small jar it won't bust the bank balance and if you like it buy bigger the next time,keep at room temperature so it's runny as it solidifies in the fridge,I used to make pessaries from it when solid and pop in vagina at night when I went to bed I was bleeding from v.a and it was a life saver for me,I was then able to try vagifem when the inflammation everywhere had settled down my vaginal area was red raw and so swollen.good luck xx
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Hi Daisydot
Thank you so much for your advice, I will try this.
It came out of nowhere 4 weeks ago, I have been tested for infections and am all clear so my practice nurse thinks it is the menopause. I was almost the same as you, not bleeding but would have been if I had not cut my nails back as was scratching at night as the itching seems to be worse then. I am very sore and swollen as the itching is relentless! It's all external but horrific!
How long have you been taking the Vagifem? Is it working? Is there anything I need to watch out for? Are you manging to lead a normal itch free life now?
Thanks
Rubyjo
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Hi Rubyjo I was exactly the same but my problem was exasperated by over use of antibiotics so like you I had v.a plus the dreaded thrush constantly but hadn't a clue about what was going on the gps were so useless.i tried all the usual anti thrush meds and otc stuff and I just couldn't stop that itch and by this stage I had two big vaginal raw sores on my inner lips that just bled and bled.I finally discovered the coconut oil and I plastered it on and within a week my sores had healed my swelling had gone down and then using a mirror i could have a better look at what was happening.I also took a teaspoon of coconut oil before bed so I was actually attacking from all directions to kill off the thrush and it worked.after that I went back to gp and got estriol cream from the nurse it did help but was so messy to use I was secreting big blobs of it so I didn't like it and then went back and asked to change to vagifem pessaries,within three to four days I was peeing normally I felt normal inside and it just continued to get better as time went on.Im pretty much pain and itch free now and most importantly uti free,you have nothing to lose it'll only get worse it's a lifelong treatment now.use the coconut oil to calm it down then use the vagifem nightly for two weeks then you reduce that to every other night or so and also use a vaginal lubricant outside daily such as yes or sylk,I prefer yes if you use it then don't apply at the same time as the pessarie so one at night and one in morning if you get me.I hope this helps you it's not easy trying to cope with these things so any more questions fire away there's plenty lovely ladies in here who will advise you.good luck xx
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Hi Tinkerbell. My GP said there was an increased chance of breast cancer and heart disease associated with Vagifem, but far less than the full HRT treatment.
Kind regards
Rubyjo
There is no evidence whatsoever for this! Vagifem contains a minute amount of oestrogen. Your doc doesn't know what s/he is talking about. Vagifem (or estriol cream) is the best treatment for vaginal dryness - along with the recommendations including moisturisers etc that Dancinggirl has given.
You said you were unaware that you were going through menopause - so have you started getting irregular periods and longer cycles? Maybe you don't know because of taking mini pill or Mirena coil? Some women do start to get symptoms even before cyclical changes but local oestrogen is still fine to use.
If you're still itching to the exent that the area is sore and swollen - maybe a very short dose of weak cortisone cream might settle this down and then you can use the other products. I have been prescribed this a couple of times for itching and spasms in that area.
Hurdity x
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Hi Daisydot
Your experience is very reassuring, thanks for your help.
Kind regards
Rubyjo
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Hi Hurdity
Thank you for your advice, I have tried cortisone cream but it has not helped. My periods are very irregular but I was told that was down to the pill I take so was none the wiser as they have been like this for years! (perhaps a little naive).
I am going to try the things that have been suggested and hopefully it will improve.
I also have itching on other parts of my body and have had blood tests done for everything! but all have come back ok. I have heard this can also be caused by the menopause, is this correct?
It's mainly wrists, scalp, back of the neck and behind my ears...comes and goes.. very odd!
Thanks
Rubyjo
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Yes Rubyjo it's the lack of oestrogen that causes it,all the membranes dry out so itchy ears, itchy eyes ,dry eye syndrome dry sinus it goes on and on.xx
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Hi Daisydot
Thanks so much. I must have been to see my GP at least four times about the general (not vaginal) itching over the last two years. Not once has the menopause been mentioned!
I feel that at last I'm getting some answers, thank you so much.
Rubyjo
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That's good Rubyjo keep reading and posting here it's lovely to hear how ladies are doing in their updates.xx
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My forearms itch like crazy sometimes. But it's not a normal itch. It's almost painful and I can scratch myself raw. It's horrible. Yes, I'm sure it's lack of oestrogen. Dry eyes and inside of nose too.
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It's like an internal itch you can't get at sueLW,nasty meno playing games with us.lol.read up there's around 34 symptoms of menopause and most if us tick most of the boxes but you can fight back and lessen symptoms.xx
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Agree with Huridty, your doctor is talking nonsense about the Vagifem, my meno specialist said even using it every day only added up to one oral HRT tablet a year ...she even pointed that out in capital letters to my GP.
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Hi Tinkerbell
Do you see a private specialist? I was wondering about that to cut the going backwards and forwards to the GP.
Is there a list of good ones anywhere?
Thanks
Rubyjo
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Hi Rubyjo i was the same as you i had no idea what was going on vaginal dryness, itchy dry eyes my skin is so dry arms, face, back and the tiredness especially having an underactive thyroid which I was diagnosed with at 50 three years ago. I felt so alone don't get me wrong I still have my down days but I've been given great helpful advice on this site. After the advice i was given on here i went back to my go i am now on vagifem and ellesste patches, which have helped alot. I have just got over my 3rd urine infection this year which my go has told me if it happens again in getting referred to a specialist to see if my use the needs to be stretched again. :( I was unable to have sex before going on vagifem as it was to painful and I know use sulk which I had never heard of until I went on this site. So ask away there are so many lovely ladies on here willing to give advice xx
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Thank you all for your advice, I am sure I will be asking more questions. Bad night last night, hardly slept! I think the thing that concerns me the most is that this is for life! I am sure if I get it under control I will feel better.
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Daisydot
Please can you tell me the brand of organic coconut oil from Holland & Barrett please. I'm going to get some today.
Thanks
Rubyjo
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Morning Rubyjo the one I used to get was in a small blue tub called vita if I remember right,get the trial size first it lasts for ages.its cold pressed raw organic coconut oil you want.quite a mouthful lol.im off to gynie now was borderline cancelling,my stress levels are through the roof I'm expecting a battle but praying not lol.good luck today give it a couple of days and use as often as you want to xx
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There's a list of specialists at the top of the page Rubyjo just click on it,green,and then pop your postcode in for details in your area.also google nick Panay Louise Newson,mike savvas,they all come highly recommended just depends on your resources but try get gp to refer you to a meno clinic before you lay out your own cash,xx
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Hi Daisydot
Good luck with your appointment :)
This seems to be the closest match: Coconut Merchant Raw Organic Extra Virgin Coconut Oil, hope it's ok as there are none in a blue tube, this is in a jar.
Can I just ask for a referral?
Thanks
Rubyjo
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Hi Daisydot
I have found it now thanks.
Rubyjo
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Hi
Does anyone follow a spefic diet to try to increase Estrogen levels please?
Thanks
Rubyjo
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It is thought that increasing phytoestrogens can help meno symptoms but this will vary from women to women.
I am 62 and stopped HRT 2 years ago. In the past I have tried all kinds of remedies and alternative methods for helping meno symptoms but I never found anything truly helped. The problem is we are all different and there is no true way of knowing what is helping or not without proper controlled trials.
I do take Red Clover and have soya milk with my breakfast cereal and I believe these are helping to reduce my flushes. When I ran out of Red Clover, I did find the flushes got a bit worse again!!!!! They are expensive and I've needed the high dose for it to have any benefits. I originally started the Red Clover as there is some evidence that it helps the heart and can help the bone density. Of course there could be a placebo effect and it could simply be that my flushes are now finally subsiding a bit!!! I took a break from HRT for 3 years in my early 50s and the flushes did not subside at all but life at that time was far more stressful - I have now a much less stressful life and I am able to look after my health much better and relax far more these days - I have tailored my life to cope with what's happening to my body.
If you are below 60, then HRT is still the best way to get the oestrogen you need. DG x
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Thanks Rubyjo and good luck, slap it all over lol xx
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Thanks Dancing girl and Daisydot
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Hi everyone
I feel like I'm living my life on here at the moment and really appreciate your support. I just wanted your opinions on something. As all my itching it external and maily around my vulva do you think there is a possibility I could have lichen sclerosus as this is also linked to thyroid disease? Does anyone know anything about this?
The coconut oil is helping a little, thanks Daisydot.
Rubyjo
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Ruby - have the doctors actually examined you? Do you have white patches? It is more common in post menopause I believe and you could be in the early stage of this skin problem, so it's best to pop to your doctor to have things checked. DG x
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Hi Dancinggirl
The practice nurse did a very quick examination. I wouldn't say say white patches but around my cliterous is white ish I noticed this morning and that's where the itch is worse.
I am going back to my GP this morning.
Thanks for your help.
Hope you are OK.
Rubyjo
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Hi Rubyjo hows it going now did you see your gp.I hope you got some answers today.xx
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Get some cream down there Girl. Or LIVE yoghurt which is cooling ;). Dryness happens as oestrogen levels drop off, inside and out: nostrils, deep in the ears, vagina, skin, between the toes, eyes ............
I use KY Jelly on the outer areas or vaseline. The idea is to keep it moist so that it doesn't itch!
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Hi Rubyjo, I had to see a vulva specialist a few months ago as my atrophy was not improving with local oestrogen and he thought I may have lichen sclerosus so prescribed strong steroid cream. It didn't help and I went onto full HRT which did help. I'm still not sure if I have this as it can lie dormant for months and then rear up when stressed and also is linked to lack of oestrogen anyway. The only way to be certain you have this is with a biopsy, but you could ask to try the steroid creams first to see if they work. I didn't have the itch or white patches just the soreness, dry and burning inside. I would see your doctor again and maybe ask now to be referred to see a specialist to at least rule this out.
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Hi
Thanks for your replies. My GP has referred me to a specialist as he was not 100% sure and has given me steroid cream. I have been using this for two days, no improvement yet but early days.
How long does vagifem take to work? I'm on day four of that.
Thanks Rubyjo
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I felt better on the vagifem really quickly about 3-4 days I'd say but I suppose everyone varies so give it time make sure you do that 14 day load and if you don't feel better then I'd carry on with it nightly for another 14 days lots of ladies do that as you may need it if your tissues are super dry inside.I used the estriol cream in the morning on outside and the vagifem at night internally.I now use the vagifem every third night but funny enough I've got sore stinging tonite like I'm cut again but I've an idea that because I've gotten constipated again and been staring the last two days I've disturbed that area again,it just reminds us how fragile it can be I suppose,so I've taken milk of magnesia tonight and increased my water intake.im hoping it'll settle back down it's like sciatica in my vag it's horrible tonight.
Hope yours settles for you xx
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Hi Daisydot
Oh no, hope you get it under control soon.
I feel like I'm back to square one as the itching is horrendous. Been the coconut oil isn't helping at the moment, which it was. I am applying the steroid cream twice a day, also a moisturiser and using the vagifem and coconut oil!
Any advice anyone?
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Steroid creams thin the skin so I am very sceptical about using steroids on our intimate area as it could make things worse. As others have said, steroid creams don't really help generally unless you are diagnosed with a skin condition that actually requires steroids and even then it should only be used for a short time.
I would stop this steroid till you have seen the specialist and had a proper diagnosis.
If the coconut oil helped then this is a good natural
Moisturiser. The Vagifem can take up to 3 months to really restore things and again, as others have said, sometimes systemic HRT is needed alongside the local oestrogen to really help if your problem is urogenital atrophy.
Try holding a bag of frozen peas wrapped in a tea towel onto the area to relieve the itch and burning feeling. You could also try some lidocaine cream that may reduce the inflammation and pain - I think you can buy this at the chemist but you can get this online.
I do sympathise, any discomfort around our intimate area is very distressing. DG x.
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Thanks Dancinggirl
The GP prescribed the steroid cream in case I had Lichen sclerosis. He's not sure and has referred me to a skin specialist. I am going to book a session with a private menopause specialist next week as I feel I am just trying everything with no real plan if that makes sense. I'll try the frozen peas! Thanks
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Hi Rubyjo - I didn't have itching, but I had terrible soreness and burning, which I now know was from VA. (VA can make the skin look very pale.) At first I was prescribed a steroid cream, as the GP thought it was thrush (it wasn't). This only made things worse. I now use Estriol Cream internally and externally twice a week (after the initial loading of every day for a fortnight) and 'Yes' water-based on the other days. Maybe you could try this?
Here is some info about Lichen Sclerosus from 'Yes', although only a biopsy would diagnose LS as the others have said.
I hope you can get some relief from this irritation!
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I was given steroid cream without a diagnosis which wasn't appropriate and for me it just made things worse. I also reacted badly to the estrogen creams etc (I persevered for months) so now use estring which releases estrogen slowly directly where needed. I have no irritation from it and even the external irritation and soreness has cleared up. After years of soreness split skin bleeding etc it cleared up very quickly. Its worth considering if you don't get a response from the vagifem after a decent trial period ( I believe some ladies find vagifem irritating initially but once the estrogen starts to work it all calms down).
Robin
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Me again Rubyjo lol.pop to boots today and get vagisil medicated creme it has 2% lidocaine and hopefully should help it numbs the area. I'd stop the steroid as it'll only thin the skin in an already sparse area so you get more splitting.lets know how it goes I've just dug mines out I'd forgotten I had it lol.xx
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Thanks everyone.
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Hi Dancinggirl
Thank you so much for your help. I have tried vagisil cream but it really burns! The frozen peas have calmed things down and am now back on the coconut oil. At this very moment it's manageable!
Rubyjo x
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Vagisilhas ingredients that could irritate. You can get lidocaine ointment that is simpler adn has fewer other ingredients. However, if the peas and coconut oil helps then thats great and with continued Vagifem use, you may find things improve. The oestrogen creams have fillers that made me burn like hell!!! DG x
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Thanks Dancinggirl, much appectiated.
Rubyjo x
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Steroid creams should never be used down there unless there is a definitive diagnosis. I had steroid cream during radiation treatment and was allowed to use a dab the size of a penny piece, twice a day on the breast which was affected.
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Hi
I just thought I would share something that is giving me some relief from the itching, in the hope it may help others.
After seeing a specialist last week and explaining that I was struggling to function as I was only getting 1-2 hours sleep and very little relief from the itching. She prescribed Instillagel which is a local anaesthetic gel. This has been amazing as it numbs the area and gives relief for around 5 hours and can be repeated a few times a day if needed.
I have slept well and feel that it is allowing the steroid ointment chance to work as I am not scratching at all.
Whilst I got this on prescription, I believe you can get it over the counter and it definitely gives temporary relief.
Rubyjo
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Is that external use only Rubyjo or can it be used internally as well?
Robin
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VA ...nightmare, mine started suddenly a year ago, I'm on HRT, (Mirena, and oestrogel) also have estring internally, and use estriole/ovestin to external skin.
Emu oil is far better than coconut oil in my opinion, much richer and helps to improve skin quality.
I also had a course of Mona Lisa laser treatment which helped restore moisture and colour and skin quality is far bette, but even with all that, flare ups still happen occasionally, then it's what to do?
Suffering at the moment, mine is externa skin too rubyjo, and includes the skin around my bottom.
Lidocaine does offer some relief, but other than that I just apply the emu oil moreand hope it will settle down....I find the ovestin/estriole cream can help externally, but it can make the soreness worse for me, and cause rashubess around my bottom, struggling to come to terms with this is for life!....what to do past 60when HRT in no longer recommended 😢😢
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Savlon ? Little and often. Do not allow the areas to dry out.
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Hi Robin
I'm sorry for the delayed response. You can you it internally & externally.
Kind regards
Rubyjo
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Hi Dancinggirl
I just thought I'd give you an update on how I am doing as you have been so helpful.
I have been using Dermovate for twelve days now and used the Instilagel for 6 days. I have not had an itch for 5 days now...fingers crossed it continues.
I am back to see my specialist at the end of the month.
Thanks for all your help.
Rubyjo x
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That's good news - hope you have now got things sorted. It was a bit of a mystery though!!!! DG x
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That's such good news!