Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Mustard1 on April 19, 2018, 04:46:36 PM
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I am 53 years old; and had the menopause at 44 and put on Kliofem 2/1. In January I start to have anxiety over work issues and it just crashed from there. Doctor put me on citalopram as I was already on HRT. However, after 8 weeks of no improvement, actually worsening I got signed off work and made an appointment with a Menopause Doctor. Who put me on Everol Conti (50mgs) - over 4 weeks I improved. However, I have crashed on week 5 and the anxiety and depression is back - the anxiety with a vengeance. Is this normal and should I just stick with this over a period of 3 months. I am struggling and would appreciate any advise. :'(
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Hi and welcome to MM
It can take at least 3 months for any HRT to settle so I would persevere for a while yet. Do you do Mindfulness or other relaxation techniques? Anxiety is common when meno hits and it's a range of strategies that need to used - not just HRt.
Perhaps consider having a Mirena fitted as you can then use higher amounts of oestrogen as gel or patch which may suit you better. Transdermal can often work much better in so many ways. Look under TREATMENTS to find out more. DG x
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Thank you so much. Yes I am using mindfulness and yoga and also exercise. I had an awful night last night and now feel worse than ever so your reply really helped. I am back to menopause doctor on Thursday but feel sick at the thought of getting through the next six days. Can't believe I felt like my normal self this time last week. Your reply gives me some hope.
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I have just hit a wall and feel worse than when this all started. In work had to do a presentation - managed that whilst the anxiety was gnawing at me the whole time and then once that was over I just went into meltdown. As anyone else experienced anything like this - the anxiety started again very slowly last Saturday (I had been on the patches for exactely 4 weeks). I don't know if this is hormones or I have a developed some other illness. The anxiety about sleeping is acute - to the extent that I believe if I don't sleep I will loose everything in my life. I can't keep going on with this. Has anyone also done this with anxiety and hormone issues???????????????? My daughter is visiting for the weekend before she goes back packing and I really don't want her to see me like this.
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If I don't get enough sleep I feel awful. I actually wonder if you are reacting badly to the progesterone in Evorel, particularly in the conti version. Many women struggle with conti HRTs because progesterone used every day can bring low mood, anxiety and PMT - perhaps you are reacting to norethisterone more now?
Lack of sleep can play havoc with concentration and this can make us more anxious.
Maybe you need one of the kinder progesterones now?
DG x
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I also think it might be the progesterone. Good job you are going back to the menopause doctor. I also think the pressures of your work at the moment are making you feel worse too. Xx
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Thank you both so much DG and P - you feel in a very lonely place with the whole M THING but this forum really helps both from an information point but also from a support and knowing that there are a whole lot of people out there who face the same struggles. Xxx
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Hello Mustard1 and welcome to the forum.
I completely sympathise with you. Your comments about feeling normal last week and not wanting your daughter to see you distressed certainly resonate with me! This menopause journey seems to be three steps forward and two steps back which is beyond frustrating. I don't have any great advice for you unfortunately but sending hugs from a fellow sufferer.
Wishing you well.
K.
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K - thank you. Sending hugs back. X
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Woke at 5am this morning - with anxiety like never before. I went to bed OK - I actually felt I should be in a padded cell as I felt I could not get through the day feeling as I did. I had 2mgs diazapham as I didn't take these when originally prescribed by GP - took that and it calmed me slightly then black mood hit !!!!!!! Took the patch off around an hour ago and feel slight,y better. Know I might be really stupid removing the patch but felt it was my only option. Think it may be prudent to put on 1/2 patch (everol conti 50) - as said on previous post have menopausal doctor on Thursday. ANY ADVICE - I now feel I am going crazy. I feel Thursday is a long long time away.
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You are not going crazy as I too have & still do feel like that. I also think because it is a combined patch of oestrogen & progesterone that the progesterone is affecting you more. Before I had a hysterectomy the progesterone part literally made me feel crazy. if you took the patch off & felt slightly better then it might have been that. If I was you I would explain to your daughter how you feel. Just talking with someone might help a bit. There are so many HRTs out there so if this one doesn't suit there is bound to be one that does with a separate progesterone.
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Paisley - thank you so much. Today as been hellish but I do have the menopause dr this week - I just don't know how I am getting to that point. I have spoken to my daughter but on a very OMG sorry for crying it's just hormones. My husband on the other hand is getting really fed up with the situation. Once the anxiety passed today it was replaced with a black depression - now I am 1/4 normal again. It is weird - - always better in the evening. Xxx. I can't stand the point of waking again tomorrow to face the same thing and tomorrow I have work.
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Maybe keep a mood/food/symptom diary, some ladies find it useful.
Don't hide anything from your family. It makes menopause so much harder!
:welcomemm: maybe read the treatment section above and make notes?
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Thanks CLKD - I will do that. The family but is challenging as I feel I am bringing other people down and I hate that. A,though yesterday I was so bad I couldn't hide it. Today is not as bad - no anxiety yet but dark mood. I keep telling myself it will pass by evening. The support through this forum really helpful. Xx
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It is very hard to keep your feelings bottled up at home. I can do it to a certain extent but when it gets bad I have to talk to my husband. He is better now than when I had PND years ago. I went to a counselor then & found it very helpful talking to someone else not related. I also totally understand going to bed not too bad but worrying about the next morning again. You will find something that works for you it is just trial & error xx
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I have just hit a wall and feel worse than when this all started. In work had to do a presentation - managed that whilst the anxiety was gnawing at me the whole time and then once that was over I just went into meltdown. As anyone else experienced anything like this - the anxiety started again very slowly last Saturday (I had been on the patches for exactely 4 weeks). I don't know if this is hormones or I have a developed some other illness. The anxiety about sleeping is acute - to the extent that I believe if I don't sleep I will loose everything in my life. I can't keep going on with this. Has anyone also done this with anxiety and hormone issues???????????????? My daughter is visiting for the weekend before she goes back packing and I really don't want her to see me like this.
I developed a phobia of insomnia even though I've never really experienced it for more than 4 days in a row at its worst.
Insane I know but to this day I won't attend morning appointments I have a sign on the door warning postmen not to knock before 1pm as I'm a night worker (I'm not)
I dread the day when I have to attend a funeral or something I can't re arrange... sometimes just thinking about my own parents funerals fills me with cold anxiety due to the commitment of having to attend. And I know how that sounds ... selfish, surely I should fear losing my parents over having to attend a funeral which means I'll be too anxious to sleep the night before because it's in the morning!
But THATS the definition of a phobia. Illogical irrational and yes selfish.
It's got better over time but when I was really bad with it (when peri kicked off) the way I dealt with it was to literally ACCEPT and EXPECT not to sleep that night. Once I'd made peace with the worse case scenario it no longer cussed me anxiety and I drifted off just fine.
But it's no good just saying those words you have to truly EXPECT AND ACCEPT you won't sleep and know yes you'll be tired but it won't kill you and sooner or later regardless of the anxiety you will sleep. The body will just force you to sleep ... might be a 2 hour nap or it might be a 12 hour catch up, but whether your anxiety monster likes it or not the mind and body will win and you will eventual sleep from exhaustion.
Once you truly come to face your fears and make peace with them, hell welcome them, they can no longer scare you
It takes some rational and a bit of inner thinking.p before you “get†it.
A good way is to do the opposite and tell yourself you will force yourself to stay awake ... instead of trying to force sleep.. force wakefulness instead.. it's another way of beating the bully of anxiety. But DO IT don't just think it... go to bed propped up on a pillow and put a movie on or read a book and be determined to stay awake...you'll soon see how you flip that anxiety on it'd head.
People around the world work nights and have to get by on a few hours of snatched sleep in a make shift bedroom in hospitals all the time.
Nursing mothers are exhausted for months
Think about it... it's damn uncomfortable but people live with sleep deprivation all the time...
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I have just hit a wall and feel worse than when this all started. In work had to do a presentation - managed that whilst the anxiety was gnawing at me the whole time and then once that was over I just went into meltdown. As anyone else experienced anything like this - the anxiety started again very slowly last Saturday (I had been on the patches for exactely 4 weeks). I don't know if this is hormones or I have a developed some other illness. The anxiety about sleeping is acute - to the extent that I believe if I don't sleep I will loose everything in my life. I can't keep going on with this. Has anyone also done this with anxiety and hormone issues???????????????? My daughter is visiting for the weekend before she goes back packing and I really don't want her to see me like this.
i
I developed a phobia of insomnia even though I've never really experienced it for more than 4 days in a row at its worst.
Insane I know but to this day I won't attend morning appointments I have a sign on the door warning postmen not to knock before 1pm as I'm a night worker (I'm not)
I dread the day when I have to attend a funeral or something I can't re arrange... sometimes just thinking about my own parents funerals fills me with cold anxiety due to the commitment of having to attend. And I know how that sounds ... selfish, surely I should fear losing my parents over having to attend a funeral which means I'll be too anxious to sleep the night before because it's in the morning!
But THATS the definition of a phobia. Illogical irrational and yes selfish.
It's got better over time but when I was really bad with it (when peri kicked off) the way I dealt with it was to literally ACCEPT and EXPECT not to sleep that night. Once I'd made peace with the worse case scenario it no longer cussed me anxiety and I drifted off just fine.
But it's no good just saying those words you have to truly EXPECT AND ACCEPT you won't sleep and know yes you'll be tired but it won't kill you and sooner or later regardless of the anxiety you will sleep. The body will just force you to sleep ... might be a 2 hour nap or it might be a 12 hour catch up, but whether your anxiety monster likes it or not the mind and body will win and you will eventual sleep from exhaustion.
Once you truly come to face your fears and make peace with them, hell welcome them, they can no longer scare you
It takes some rational and a bit of inner thinking.p before you “get†it.
A good way is to do the opposite and tell yourself you will force yourself to stay awake ... instead of trying to force sleep.. force wakefulness instead.. it's another way of beating the bully of anxiety. But DO IT don't just think it... go to bed propped up on a pillow and put a movie on or read a book and be determined to stay awake...you'll soon see how you flip that anxiety on it'd head.
People around the world work nights and have to get by on a few hours of snatched sleep in a make shift bedroom in hospitals all the time.
Nursing mothers are exhausted for months
Think about it... it's damn uncomfortable but people live with sleep deprivation all the time...
I wish we could really talk. Forums are great but talking in person and a hug and a cry is so much better. I wish I could do that,
I'm going through what you are myself for the last month...it's truly a living hell.
If I had to live like this day in day out for years with no hope of ever being normal I'd rather be dead. Sorry but it's horrible and all we can do is remind ourselves it passes...
Please remember you have been here before and it passed
This too shall pass.
This too shall pass
... it will... it already has once...
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RoseEnglish - your post was so helpful. Like you I hate the thought of living my life like this - but the thought it will pass that it must pass helps. I must know this because it wasn't like this before so it must be OK again. I am astounded the menopause can do this - no one gets it until they experience it. I have 2 lovely daughters and they are really what is keeping me fighting at the moment along with the fact it will pass. A big hug to you - I had an OK day yesterday and awful one today. I just want my old self back - thought I was getting there until last week when this started to return. My mantra today will be it will pass. Thanks again. J xx
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There is one point I keep forgetting to mention - since the symptoms returned I am very hot. Not hit flushes but body temperature - the higher the temperature the more anxious I am. As a rule I am cold so started taking my temperature- all within the normal range - but fluctuating between 35.1 to 36.9 - any ideas? Xxxxx
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RoseEnglish - your post was so helpful. Like you I hate the thought of living my life like this - but the thought it will pass that it must pass helps. I must know this because it wasn't like this before so it must be OK again. I am astounded the menopause can do this - no one gets it until they experience it. I have 2 lovely daughters and they are really what is keeping me fighting at the moment along with the fact it will pass. A big hug to you - I had an OK day yesterday and awful one today. I just want my old self back - thought I was getting there until last week when this started to return. My mantra today will be it will pass. Thanks again. J xx
It IS astounding that women don't know to expect this I know I didn't...I thought meno was hot flushes and HRT.
I think the generation before us had hysterectomies when they went to the doctors ad that was the done thing. My own mum had her hysterectomy at 44 and they put her on estrogen patches directly after the operation. She told me “I'd never felt betterâ€
She was delighted to be done with it and never had another hormonal issue again.
The doctor decided the hysterectomy was the best thing to do to resolve her flooding and associated anemia.
Now 30 years on its not done so routinely. Flooding can be stopped with drugs or hormones or a simple out patient operation.
I do wonder why this affliction has remained so much of a secret and I think it's because our mothers and mothers mothers didn't have the internet to reach out to other women and it simply wasn't something that was discussed even with friends, plus I think women feared being labelled as mentally ill. So they suffered in silence.
I also believe women today have much more stress, we're making a transition to become independent and career minded but the transition is not complete so we're left holding the baby cleaning the house AND juggling careers.
Men are understandly reluctant to accept the stay at home father role.. by and large men from our generation still have beliefs that men work and women take care of the home...and if we want to break away from that tradition then “be it so on our own heads†...it's perhaps not a conscious thought but their actions do kind of speak that way.
In short, we have more stress less time and yet still stuck in the dark age when it comes to being able to speak freely and openly to people about our troubles. There's still a stigma attached to meno like admitting your experiencing it is admitting your old so women shy away from owning up to their issues.
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RoseEnglish - your post was so helpful. Like you I hate the thought of living my life like this - but the thought it will pass that it must pass helps. I must know this because it wasn't like this before so it must be OK again. I am astounded the menopause can do this - no one gets it until they experience it. I have 2 lovely daughters and they are really what is keeping me fighting at the moment along with the fact it will pass. A big hug to you - I had an OK day yesterday and awful one today. I just want my old self back - thought I was getting there until last week when this started to return. My mantra today will be it will pass. Thanks again. J xx
Yes I wish I could take me head off and swap with my partner just so he can understand because saying how you feel does in no way do the actual experience justice.
You read symptoms and think “ooh how awful†but when your experiencing those symptoms it's a shock to how truly life and personality changing they are.
What's worth mentioning is how easy it is to scan all the posts on forums and they're all doom and gloom and that can get you down too. But the reality is forums by their very nature attract people who are worried depressed anxious and in a crisis.
As soon as that crisis passes they vanish and get on with their lives which is perfectly understandable.
I came here in a crisis, you did too. One day we will move on and others behind us will be reading our symptoms trying to find common ground.
I will often research a member of a forum to see if they are still suffering by way of recent posts... most seem to appear in a crisis ask questions then vanish we can only assume because they found a solution.
By the way, I saw your post on one of my threads... thank you ❤️
I read your post and I could relate fully to your current experiences.
Everything is transient both good and bad. You know the saying “too good to last†well same for the bad... life and health is full of ups and downs. It's just when we are experiencing a low it can feel like it's all we've ever known and the thought of ever being normal or “me†again is so unbelievable in the middle of the crisis.
I hope you find either an anti depressant or a form of HRT that suits but chances are this phase will pass naturally regardless of the prescriptions we use, it just makes us feel better to be doing or trying something rather than waiting and hoping.
Xxx
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thought I would give an update - my lovely menopause doctor explained that on the Everol Conti patch I was actually getting less oestrogen than when on the Kliofem. So she has now given my Estrogel and I use 1 pump per day but remain on the patches. This regime started on Wednesday and at the moment it would appear that the anxiety as lessened - however, I know that we are all on a roller coaster. This morning I felt a bit depressed but not nearly as depressed as I would feel when the depression came after the anxiety. I will keep everyone updated. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR REPLIES LAST WEEK when I was ready to jump in front of a bus. The doctor has said that I may also need testosterone but to see how I get on with this regime before considering testosterone.
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Hi Ladies sorry to find how awful you have been taking evorel conti i too have been taking these patches for 3 to 4 weeks & felt awful tearful in the most awkward situation (shouldn't be out - its ridiculous). I was previously on Everel sequi but had very heavy bleeding so tried stopping to see what was happening & I stopped it was blooming brilliant to be free from such heavy bleeding but had to cope with very hot night sweats & flushes sleeping difficult.
Now I have started femseven this week dont feel so tearful now but my big problem is such painful breasts since starting everol conti. I will just see if it improves as I have gastritis so not sure if I can use tablets doc says no 4 times to micronised progesterone. I have seen on here about taking as pesseries?
I have been having slight bleed this week also:{ hope you find a treatment that helps it can be so nice when it is the right balance but unfortunetly the progesterone seems to cause such sensitivity for us :( Hope your mornings become brighter!!!
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After 4 months on Sequi my anxiety and some flushing has come back. I truly hope I don't get insomnia again, because it's so debilitating. You guys are not alone xx