Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: EnglishRose on April 18, 2018, 10:53:00 AM
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Is this a Panic Attack? I don't feel anxiety I feel depressed when it happens - Scared and alone
I am 49 - I have had standard perimenopause symptoms for 9 years. My periods are currently fortnightly only last 24 hours and I am using bioidentical progesterone every day. My last period (1 day) started 2 days ago (Monday) today is Weds. My "attack" happened last evening (Tuesday)
Last night something happened to me that's left me in tears as I write this thread I am so scared and alone, I had hoped things were getting better since these depressional waves and other symptoms started a month ago, but after last night I have given up hope of that happening as it was by far the most intense attack i have had to date.
I started with a feeling of emotional flatness which I have had before during the last month but not this intense.
It creeps up on me and I notice I start to feel disinterested in the TV I had been watching (for example) and I am less and less connected to whatever I had been watching or doing.
This moves onto what I would describe as classic PMS depression, tears and very low mood and I actually feel sleepy too so lie down and doze on and off as the anxiety and depression plays on in the back of my mind.
I cannot sleep truly I just feel sleepy, so I am awake lead in bed and I start to feel detached from my environment, nothing feels or looks real anymore... I am in my own house and I recognise it but I feel like i'm trapped inside a bubble or my own head as well as feeling depressed and i DO mean depressed in a clinical sense.
I can hold a conversation about how I am feeling but thats all I can do. If my dog sits on my lap I cannot feel emotionally connected to her, I am stroking her like a robot...no emotion.
I feel like I am in a dream like bubble and its very intense.
Of course THEN I start to feel anxious because I am so scared this spaced out drugged up is not going to end, that I will get "stuck" in this bubble of depression and derealisation.
I feel weak, drowsy, dizzy, my body has a kind of buzzing sensation to it now... my limbs feel wobbly and weak. But my heart is not racing and I am breathing normally. I am NOT having a panic attack as I would have imagined it to be....I feel very depressed and very unreal and of course scared/worried about if this will ever end and pass. I am crying...hysterically scared of how I am feeling and how long I will feel this way.
I have read about people who are in a constant state of "derealisation" and honestly, to feel like that indefinitely I know hand on heart I would want to be dead..and I do not say that lightly. At this point, all I can think about is: "My God...please let me out of this feeling...I want my mind sanity back I NEED my mind back"
After about one half hours, It starts to lift. The TV will catch my attention again and I can follow the story and feel emotionally connected to what I am watching & hearing again and I can feel the dark fog lifting... and I am so relieved. Within 10 minutes I am back to myself, but very shaken....The whole "thing" lasted 3 hours but the most intense part with the derealisation lasted one and half hours.
Now of course I am a living walking mess because I this can occur at any time and next time maybe I will get stuck like that...
I have no one I can call or talk to. No one who can relate or tell me "they have had it too" and when I look online all I find are stories of usually younger people who are in a permanent state of derealisation or depersonalisation due to anxiety issues and panic disorders and all that does is add more anxiety to my anxious mind.
This all started AFTER I stopped eating sugars and started cleaning my diet up....????
I have read the symptoms of a "Panic Attack" and Derealisation and Depersonalisation are listed as one of the main symptoms of a panic attack but still, I am not aware of feeling anxiety when it starts only once I am in the middle of it.
I have copied and pasted my personal symptoms from a list associated with Anxiety & Panic attacks.
Feeling of going crazy or losing control
Feeling you might pass out
A surge of doom and gloom
Dizziness
Trembling
Feeling detached from reality
Weak in the knees
Hot and cold flushes
Tingling sensations
Derealization (feeling unreal, in a dream-like state)
Dizziness, lightheadedness, unsteadiness
Emotional distress
Emotional upset
Inability to calm yourself down
Knot in the stomach, tight stomach
Nausea
Panicky feeling
Feel like crying
The last month has been hell. I stopped eating sugars started juicing veg cleaned up my diet and for what?? I have never ever been so sick and depressed.
I left a thread a couple of weeks ago about these new symptoms i've had for a month.
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It sounds like low blood sugar to me. Cutting down on sugar just made me very bad tempered but everyone is different. What else are you eating? Are you getting enough protein? You mentioned juicing Vegs but if they are raw they are difficult to digest and you may not be getting enough nutrients. Have you cut out all starchy carbs? It could be that instead of going cold turkey you should have reduced sugar gradually. There are two schools of thought on this but I think gradual is better. Try adding back in a little starchy carbs or sugar and see if that improves things. Sugar is bad but like drugs it is not easy of come off.
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Thanks for replying, it kind of makes sense actually. I mean that's the common denominator.
I started an "anti candida" thing took a heap of probiotics which landed me sick so I stopped taking them almost a month ago but continued with the no sugar, more water, veg juicing etc.
I am eating normal foods just not junk food and sugars so I have
Breakfast weetabix milk and berries
Lunch - tin of soup
Dinner potatoes meat and veg or salad
I just don't eat sugars, chocolate, biscuits etc anymore
I used to eat a lot of ice cream and sugar based desserts and biscuits and simply "stopped"
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I think this could be candida die off symptoms! Google it....Or sometimes it can be called the herxheimer reaction. I think it could be a sign that you are putting your body under too much stress.
Do you take oestrogen as well? Or just progesterone?
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Hi,
I cut out sugar nearly a month ago and whilst I don't have all your symptoms, I have definitely felt 'down'..and moody and tired. I couldn't tell whether they were the usual peri menopause symptoms or to do with my diet. The first three days after I cut out sugar I had bad headaches then for a week or so I kept feeling sick. When I told someone I had cut out sugar the first thing they asked me is 'are you moody'? I have felt moody but put that down to other things going on in my life!
I do feel better in that my almost daily headaches have gone but I don't feel as great as it says you should when I read about it online but I put that down to it mixing in with my peri symptoms. Also, I haven't lost much weight which was annoying when I have given up all the fattening stuff I was eating! How much weight have you lost?
You are still eating carbs so I wouldn't have thought it was low blood sugar. I did look at a low carb diet and you're not allowed potatoes, fruit etc. I didn't like the sound of it and it sounded like some people did become ill on it.
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Hi and welcome to MM roseenglish
You say you are taking bio identical progesterone everyday? Where did you get this from? Is it prescribed by you doctor? Is this progesterone from an alternative therapist or bought online? I would stop this progesterone a.s.a.p. unless you take it to control excessive bleeding.
If you have been peri menopausal for a long time then you may well be heading towards late peri meno and your oestrogen levels will be fluctuating and dropping more. Bio identical progesterone can give some nasty side effects without oestrogen alongside.
As others have mentioned, big changes in the diet can also have an effect - like so many things, we are all different so have to find a healthy diet that works best for us. Just soap for lunch won't get you through the afternoon, so no wonder you feel dizzy, unwell and panicky. If you had some more protein with the soap e.g. nuts and seeds and a chunk of cheese, then this would probably help. The idea of candida in the gut should not be something to worry about - if you are eating a relatively healthy diet then you are giving the gut all the support you need - candida tends to emerge if you have had antibiotics or chemo therapy and the body can recover naturally or your can take some probiotics for a few weeks - live yogurt can often do the trick!
Read up all the info on this site to get clued up. Print out the section from TREATMENTS for peri menopause - here is the link: https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/perimeno.php
Write out all your symptoms and questions. Pop to the GP and show him//her what you have written and printed off and ask for help. You may even need an antidepressant at first but HRT should probably be your first form of treatment - you may be amazed how much better you feel once you've got a proper baleen of oestrogen and progesterone on board. Keep us posted. DG x
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You would know if this were a panic attack. What you describe is in many ways, 'normal' for menopause >:( ::). Maybe make a note of how you feel, what you eat and symptoms. Either speak with your Practice Nurse, GP or the local Pharmacist for advice.
Browse round treatments as suggested. Make notes!
Who told you to cut out sugar? Low blood sugar at menopause can be awful - been there :'( so eating every 3 hours: lots of carbohydrates, fruits, veg.; gentle exercise.
'thrush' i.e. Candida thrives on sugars: everyone has it: but it lives in the bowel so can be passed to the vagina via bad toilet hygiene. It can be bothersome in the mouth too .........
A healthy varied diet will help natural gut flora ;-)
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I think this could be candida die off symptoms! Google it....Or sometimes it can be called the herxheimer reaction. I think it could be a sign that you are putting your body under too much stress.
Do you take oestrogen as well? Or just progesterone?
I thought die off myself as it hit me like a BRICK WALL after taking probiotics AMD Syntol and FloraPhage just 1 of each every day for a month and all of these new to me mental symptoms cropped up right at the start of that. I stopped "because" of the anxiety and depression and "spaced out" feeling.
I have been taking molybdenum, milk thistle, LivPro XL to support the liver, increased water, started on the fresh veg juice... but it's been a month almost since I stopped the probiotics and the "attack" I had last night was by far the most intense and longest in duration since I stopped them, so I am no longer thinking its a herx reaction...I don't know anymore. :(
It feels like in taking the probiotics and stopping the sugars I have stirred up my hormones so I am in limbo as to what I am dealing with, I thought I was getting better from "die off" but how long does it take to pass?
I don't take Estrogen no. Just prescribed progesterone (Cyclogest) which I have been using (pessary) for many years as I believed in "estrogen dominance"
I have never experienced such intense depression and the feeling of being in a dream is terrifying. The "derealisation" is strongly associated with anxiety so I am confused as I would not describe my mood at that time as "anxious" I was depressed and scared once the derealisation kicked in...
Even today everything looks weird...vivid colours and my eyes are sensitive to light my eyes are tired and I felt very down all day "because" of how it scared the Hell out of me last night...I feel like it could happen again at any time...and I might not come out the other side next time.... "Feelings of losing your mind" is a classic anxiety/meno symptom
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Hi,
I cut out sugar nearly a month ago and whilst I don't have all your symptoms, I have definitely felt 'down'..and moody and tired. I couldn't tell whether they were the usual peri menopause symptoms or to do with my diet. The first three days after I cut out sugar I had bad headaches then for a week or so I kept feeling sick. When I told someone I had cut out sugar the first thing they asked me is 'are you moody'? I have felt moody but put that down to other things going on in my life!
I do feel better in that my almost daily headaches have gone but I don't feel as great as it says you should when I read about it online but I put that down to it mixing in with my peri symptoms. Also, I haven't lost much weight which was annoying when I have given up all the fattening stuff I was eating! How much weight have you lost?
You are still eating carbs so I wouldn't have thought it was low blood sugar. I did look at a low carb diet and you're not allowed potatoes, fruit etc. I didn't like the sound of it and it sounded like some people did become ill on it.
Thing is, I stopped sugars 3 1/2 weeks before I started the probiotics and had no issues. Felt much better all round actually. SO its been 2 1/2 months since I had any refined sugar at all and I used to eat quite a lot too....
I tell you what, I wish I had not bothered. I was happier and stable even with the bad diet.... :(
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You would know if this were a panic attack. What you describe is in many ways, 'normal' for menopause >:( ::). Maybe make a note of how you feel, what you eat and symptoms. Either speak with your Practice Nurse, GP or the local Pharmacist for advice.
Browse round treatments as suggested. Make notes!
Who told you to cut out sugar? Low blood sugar at menopause can be awful - been there :'( so eating every 3 hours: lots of carbohydrates, fruits, veg.; gentle exercise.
'thrush' i.e. Candida thrives on sugars: everyone has it: but it lives in the bowel so can be passed to the vagina via bad toilet hygiene. It can be bothersome in the mouth too .........
A healthy varied diet will help natural gut flora ;-)
no one told me...I was always sick with weak immune system so figured it was a good thing to do...
What do you know about low blood sugar and meno? I have read a few posts about insulin and meno and I am wondering if that's what I am dealing with.
I have done this before and not felt like this.... so its upset my hormones what ever I have done..
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You may be having silent migraine where you don't get the headache but you get the aura. I have read about it a few times on here. Have a search on it.
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roseenglish I think a trip to the doc to put your mind at rest would help. The trouble with anxiety is that the more you worry about if you have it, the worse it gets. A self for-filling prophecy.
It's no good trying to work out whether it's low blood sugar, the meno or migraines. Our advise, on here, can only be from our own experience. You might be experiencing something totally different. So be kind to yourself and have a chat with you GP. :bighug:
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4 me a sudden attack of low blood sugar is intense nausea ....... because the body is hungry. Then my head feels woozy :-\. I have learnt to eat little and often. Bananas and dried fruits and nuts are my stand-bys to try to stop that awful dip.
The body needs a balanced diet, including fats, dairy, sugars, plenty of hydration ......... we are built pretty well but if we alter what we eat/drink too drastically the body will rebel :D ::).
I don't understand a 'weak immune system' have you been diagnosed with something specific? I have allergic rhinitis which presents as runny or dry nose, sudden sneezing when my body temperature changes which can be embarrassing :-\ and can be eased by deep hoovering as well as specific nasal sprays if necessary. That took several years to learn to control.
I think many health issues can be made more apparent when hormones begin to wax and wane. Each one of us finds it different though many situations can affect all of us. Do read our threads about vaginal atrophy - forewarned is forearmed! As oestrogen levels drop off the body may become dry: inside and out; deep in the ears, nose, skin, vagina, scalp ....... as well as the muscles may become lax = aches and pains. It ain't called 'the change' for nowt.
One cannot influence hormones much other than be replacement therapy but 1 can upset the body over-all when we begin trying to find out things to ease symptoms. Some find that herbs etc. help initially but as hormones take over, any benefit is lost. There is a room for alternatives too.
Let us know how you get on. No subject is taboo on here ;-)
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Just a quick reply but I really think you should stop The progesterone.
What you describe I had on evorel sequi as well and stopped as soon as I came of it.
I know you believed in Oestrogen dominance but hormones will change over time and maybe you don't need progesterone anymore.
Please make an appointment with your Gp xx
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roseenglish I think a trip to the doc to put your mind at rest would help. The trouble with anxiety is that the more you worry about if you have it, the worse it gets. A self for-filling prophecy.
It's no good trying to work out whether it's low blood sugar, the meno or migraines. Our advise, on here, can only be from our own experience. You might be experiencing something totally different. So be kind to yourself and have a chat with you GP. :bighug:
I agree :) I have booked some private blood tests that will test my hormone levels taking into consideration the progesterone I am already using and I should have the results back for my appt with the doctor in 2 weeks.
Thank you x
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I suffered depersonalisation during puberty, had no idea what they were until I hit meno and read up on them. Doc all the years ago told my mum it was hormonal. Truly terrifying experiences. As anxiety hit again during meno I went to a cognitive hypnotherapist and she wanted to induce the depersonalisation under hypnotherapy. I refused point blank, during meno I've been close to it returning but I seem to be able to stop myself going the whole way, somehow, it can start and I can feel that horrible feeling. Where am I ? Is this real life? Awful, wouldn't wish it on anyone x
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One shouldn't need to book private blood tests in the UK :-\
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I suffered depersonalisation during puberty, had no idea what they were until I hit meno and read up on them. Doc all the years ago told my mum it was hormonal. Truly terrifying experiences. As anxiety hit again during meno I went to a cognitive hypnotherapist and she wanted to induce the depersonalisation under hypnotherapy. I refused point blank, during meno I've been close to it returning but I seem to be able to stop myself going the whole way, somehow, it can start and I can feel that horrible feeling. Where am I ? Is this real life? Awful, wouldn't wish it on anyone x
Thank you for sharing - It's not something I have ever experienced before. I have only had a few fairly mild attacks this last month nothing prior then a few days ago the deepest wave of depression followed by derealisation. For me it was like being trapped inside a bubble. Detached from surroundings emotionally.. its very hard to describe... close to feeling like your actually dreaming... I remember looking at my dog and stroking her and thinking how unreal she looked and how detached I felt to her on any level.
The fear is getting trapped like that... like that will become how you feel for ever...
The derealisation lasted about an hour or so the depression about 3 from the mildest start to the horrendous peak, then it gradually lifted.
I am constantly waiting for the next attack and thats how you can get clinically depressed because for me at least it comes from no where ... I feel like I can be "got at" at any time or any day.
I don't fully understand why this is happening to me now.... I guess I always knew the closer I got to the meno the more intense it would get but I expected my usual symptoms to increase...night sweats, insomnia, anxiety in general about specific things.... Whatever I am going through now is new to me ... I am not familiar with any of it and not prepared
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One shouldn't need to book private blood tests in the UK :-\
I am lucky I can afford it and its just easier and faster to get exactly what I want than go through the whole appointment x 6 with the doctors before they will do anything then further appointments with the nurse then back to the doctor to be told "Everything is normal"
No! Nothing is "normal" and I don't want to be fobbed off with ADs or anxiety meds...I have been there and done that in ignorance when this all kicked off aged 40....looking back it was nothing like what I am experiencing now though...
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4 me a sudden attack of low blood sugar is intense nausea ....... because the body is hungry. Then my head feels woozy :-\. I have learnt to eat little and often. Bananas and dried fruits and nuts are my stand-bys to try to stop that awful dip.
The body needs a balanced diet, including fats, dairy, sugars, plenty of hydration ......... we are built pretty well but if we alter what we eat/drink too drastically the body will rebel :D ::).
I don't understand a 'weak immune system' have you been diagnosed with something specific? I have allergic rhinitis which presents as runny or dry nose, sudden sneezing when my body temperature changes which can be embarrassing :-\ and can be eased by deep hoovering as well as specific nasal sprays if necessary. That took several years to learn to control.
I think many health issues can be made more apparent when hormones begin to wax and wane. Each one of us finds it different though many situations can affect all of us. Do read our threads about vaginal atrophy - forewarned is forearmed! As oestrogen levels drop off the body may become dry: inside and out; deep in the ears, nose, skin, vagina, scalp ....... as well as the muscles may become lax = aches and pains. It ain't called 'the change' for nowt.
One cannot influence hormones much other than be replacement therapy but 1 can upset the body over-all when we begin trying to find out things to ease symptoms. Some find that herbs etc. help initially but as hormones take over, any benefit is lost. There is a room for alternatives too.
Let us know how you get on. No subject is taboo on here ;-)
Thank you
When I was about 40 ish I started falling ill and bedridden with aching restless legs, lower back pain, general weakness and malaise ....like a virus but with none of the head cold symptoms.
I could be in bed for a week or 3 to 4 and then I would gradually get stronger and feel fine again.
I had some bloods done thyroid etc and they always came back normal so I stopped going to the doctors..... I was worried they would palm me off with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome ... thats what they do, they do the blood tests and if everything comes back as "normal" then they run out of options and strike you off with CFS or ME and I knew this was something that could be fixed.
I am a believer that nutrition is the cause for the vast majority of disease and illnesses but nutrition other than the standard stuff is not something the NHS will consider or looking into.
Systemic candida is something that only happens to AIDs patients according to them were as I believe our modern fast food high sugar diet combined with modern day stress can play havoc with our immune system and 70% of our immune system starts in the gut. Even if they humoured me they would only be able to prescribe anti-fungal / antibiotics which do kill the yeast (bad bacteria) but then you need to rebuild the good bacteria again. Its basically a nutritionist job and one not governed by the out of date teachings from the medical schools whose approach to almost any condition has not changed much in decades. only the drugs they prescribe have changed.
So I self researched and decided I had systemic candida (a gut imbalance) .. but never truly did much about it....limped along taking the good times and putting up with the bad. Its got so bad I am sick 70% of the time and so I decided to cut the sugars and take probiotics but all its done is make me sicker and created these horrible mental issues I have never had before. Its been a month since I stopped the probiotics.
I have had a stool test done and gut immunity test (private) via a nutritionist (private) to see exactly what bacteria I have in my gut the ratio and whether it has advanced out of the stomach into the bloodstream and other organs.
The gut immunity tests for well I am guessing immunity and inflammation of the gut.
I will feel a little better when I get those results back and I can see exactly what I am dealing with.
I know the gut also is linked to our hormones so I feel by taking probiotics I have dropped a bomb in my system and stirred up a whole lot of hormones too....its just a theory :)
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It's a theory. Hormones control most of our body ........ most of the time we aren't aware of the role they each play but boy, are we aware when they get out of kilter!
Cortisol: the waking up hormone: floored me in the 1990s. I would wake terrified :'(.
Adrenaline : causes anxiety, even though I know it's fight/flight response it's the physicality that makes me feel so ill
Propbiotics ect. : is that predictive text again ::) : R unlikely to influence the hormones at all. I have drunk Actimel 4 years due to slow bowel transit >:( and I have had no effects on any other part of my body. Works the bowel nice and gently though ;-)
The gut is known as the 2nd brain though ........ which is where I feel ill, as soon as anxiety strikes or if I'm sitting an exam., visiting friends, going shopping .......... bugga ..........
For years I had restless legs. Bananas cured them :o. I was eating more to stop that awful sudden hunger feeling and the side effect, after 5 nights, no restless legs. 4 me it's lack of potassium. Apparently.
If ever my gut is inflammed I am aware of a kind of burning and 'off' feeling :-\. I also have reflux which can get worse into full heartburn, sleeping becomes impossible until I have chewed at least two Rennies ::).
Let us know?
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roseenglish - what are you bowel movements like? Do you open you bowels regularly? Do you get constipated or suffer with diarrhoea? Do you get cramps or pains as you digest food?
I had a nasty bout of diverticulitis last year - very nasty pain, passing small amounts blood with bowel movements and felt debilitated - it was quite frightening. I had been prescribed PPI drugs for heartburn and these triggered the infection because I wasn't digesting my food properly.
I'm am wondering if you have some kind of inflammatory bowel disease? This might explain a lot and should be investigated. DG x