Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: sidse on April 04, 2018, 01:00:00 PM
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Hi,
I have had a UTI brewing for a couple of weeks. I thought that I had nipped it in the bud with D Mannose and upping my vagifem but I think it may be getting worse. I have some antibiotics from the last one. Should I use them?
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Have you got a whole course of ABs from last time? If not I'd think it's better to get it confirmed and a new full course prescribed if it is
I suffered terribly pre-vagifem with constant UTIs and touch wood I've not had once since but if I did I'd just put it down to one of those things I think. I think it's always best to complete any course of ABs, even when you start feeling better
Hope you get sorted xx
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No sidse I wouldn't as you can develop a resistance to them plus until you get your culture results back you wouldn't know which bacteria you were targeting.I would try drinking some lemon juice in warm water to neutralise any acidity in your urine and try and restore your ph balance.your dmannose is only helpful for ecoli bacteria so that's probably why it's not helping,watch your diet and avoid any acidic foods,check out the bladder diet online.It could be VA you have as this mimics utis so unless you have confirmation from labs it's a bacterial infection I would assume it's VA and use the recommended treatments for that,I see your using vagifem so try bottle washing after peeing,just use lukewarm water in a water bottle while straddling the pan,and use a good lubricant after,either coconut oil or yes or silk for the surrounding vaginal area.keep persisting with it you can minimise the discomfort by doing this,drink plenty water and keep the ph as neutral as possible.ideal number is 7 ish.you can buy test strips in chemist or on amazon.good luck and if any doubt see your gp.x
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It wasn't a course of antibiotics( should have been clearer) I was given a one off dose of Fosfomycin as I had to go to hospital. I picked up a second dose just in case but I didn't have to take it then. I will try to keep it under control with all the lifestyle measures that you are suggesting daisydot. Interestingly, I had just come to the end of the 2 weeks of vagifem so I may go back to using it every day for a while.
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I've developed extreme reactions to antibiotics sidse as they'd given me so many and suppressed my immune system and I got pretty ill at one stage so I've had to use every trick in the book to avoid antibiotics until I got stronger but I have been nearly a year now with no utis at all,as I said VA does mimic it very well and I had all the classic symptoms but no bacteria,I even sent away to private labs just to be sure.every single time you poo wash yourself afterwards,it needs to be a lifetime habit if your scucceptabke to utis.dont use wipes or perfumed soaps,it's a bit of a nightmare initially but you can soon get things under control and manageable without them poking around and doing invasive procedures that do not help anyone Good luck.x
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sidse - you must get your urine tested to see if there is infection before taking ABs. ABs can actually make things worse if used too often. Dmannose is not enough if you have urogenital atrophy. Use Vaginal moisturisers daily - YES products or SYLK are best. Drink lots of water and cut out caffeine, fruit juices and alcohol is essential. Try putting a teaspoon of bicarb of soda in a 500ml bottle of water and drink this over 3-4 hours to ease the burning.
DG x
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Agree - do not take ABs - vaginal atrophy mimics urine infection-type feelings. The only way is to have a fresh urine test sent to a Lab. for proper testing.
VA needs HRT!
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will try to keep going without taking the antibiotics and try bicarb although I am using cymalon at the moment but I guess they are the same thing?
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Make sure that you have a good pain relief too.
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Is your pee cloudy (pee in jam jar to check). If so you an infection so see your doctor. How come you have ABs left over. You should have taken them all as not completing means you probably didn't get clear the first time and it creates AB resistant infections.
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Shady glade - you are totally right about the ABs - one should always finish the whole course of ABs or resistance occurs.
I'm afraid cloudy urine doesn't necessarily mean infection - it can just be a sign that there is blood in the urine and there can be blood without infection with IC and/or urogenital atrophy. My urine is cloudy most of the time because of blood traces. DG x
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Reading previous posts it seems that sidse was only given a single dose sachet with another one as back up from the hospital so not a course as such?
Taz x
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I didn't think there was such a thing as a single dose AB!!!
I believe there is concern about the standard short course ABs that women are given for UTIs as they rarely clear infections fully and could be building AB resistant infections. It's very important that any uti infection is identified and appropriate AB treatment is given. All to often women get repeated infections because infections have not been cleared completely. DG x
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Anyone read about the man with un-treatable gonorrhoea? There is 1 last AB that the medics are going to try ......... sadly ABs were taken for granted B4 in recent years, it became aware that Bugs can become resistant :'(
How R U this morning sidse?
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Morning all, well I have not burning sensation just not a proper flow. I have taken some cymalon and will take the full course of that and also go back to using vagifem every day. Is using bicarb the same as using cymalon as I don't want to have to keep buying cymalon at nearly £5 a course.
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Cymalon contains sodium citrate, and the idea is to reduce the acidity of your urine, thus making it less irritating to the urethra. Sodium bicarbonate would do exactly the same. Half a teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate in a glass of water, three times a day, would be your cheapest option. Try to drink plenty of plain water in between.
Glad to hear you are feeling a bit better today.
JP x
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UTIs generally only produce bladder pain if that is the site of the infection. Infection further up the tract produces different symptoms.
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That's interesting. My pain tends to be further down like a general irritation in that area. In my last one( the sample did come back as infected) the pain was more widespread.
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I didn't think there was such a thing as a single dose AB!!!
I believe there is concern about the standard short course ABs that women are given for UTIs as they rarely clear infections fully and could be building AB resistant infections. It's very important that any uti infection is identified and appropriate AB treatment is given. All to often women get repeated infections because infections have not been cleared completely. DG x
Hi DG - the antibiotic sidse was given is fosfomycin, which is being used to target UTI's which are increasingly becoming resistant to other antibiiotics. Reading up on it is showing reasonably good results but seems to be only issued by hospitals rather than GPs. It has been used in the past before surgery etc. I believe. NICE guidelines suggest a single dose of 3 g in women. You can read about it here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5057270/ I haven't waded through all of it but it may be hopeful for women who have repeated UTI's which don't respond to normal treatment.
Taz x :)
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Thanks Taz - very interesting. DG x
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I guess that I was pretty lucky in getting the fosfomycin. It certainly worked very quickly after taking the dose. Still, it is probably not the kind of thing that you want to be taking on a regular basis.
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sidse, do you know which bacterium you have? Enterococcal infections of the bladder are quite common in menopausal women, and you need to have the correct AB for this, although Fosfomycin ought to do the trick according to the information on Wikipedia.
My last two UTIs were enterococcal, but so close together I'm not sure the first course of ABs really cleared it. I was given 7 days worth of Nitrofurantoin the first time, and 3 days worth the second time. I developed the infection just before Xmas and could not get treatment until the New Year, which perhaps was why it was difficult to shift. It did give me lower abdominal pain at first.
JP x
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Hi Joanie,
I don't know which bacterium I had. My infection was also just before Xmas - I don't know how you coped with waiting until New Year for treatment.
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Agree - do not take ABs - vaginal atrophy mimics urine infection-type feelings. The only way is to have a fresh urine test sent to a Lab. for proper testing.
VA needs HRT!
I have had a suspected UTI since early march. I first tried to use d Mannosa and also used Estriol cream but the symptoms kept coming back. I went to a GP and he sent a urine test away and gave me nitrofurantoin which didn't work (as I expected as I had had it before) and made me feel ill. I saw a different GP last week who told me that the urine test had been inconclusive and asked me to do another one this week. I asked for trimethroprim which he gave me but only 3 days worth. Over the Easter weekend, the symptoms returned so i started taking the 3 day course. It appeared to have worked and i felt better yesterday but the symptoms have crept back. I don't think a 3 day course is enough for many people. I was told this by a hospital duty GP before.
I have just dropped a 2nd sample off for testing (48 hours after finishing the 3 day one). if the discomfort continues tomorrow, I am going to take 2 more days worth to make it up to 5 days. I have a spare prescription for taking on holiday.
Once this is over, I will make an appointment to see my preferred GP and ask to try Vagifem instead of Estriol.
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It is so energy zapping isn't it katejo - having to go back and forward, taking samples etc. I have a feeling that mine is just going to linger on not getting fully better. Hope the antibiotics do the trick for you.
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It is so energy zapping isn't it katejo - having to go back and forward, taking samples etc. I have a feeling that mine is just going to linger on not getting fully better. Hope the antibiotics do the trick for you.
Usually Trimethroprim does the job. I was told by a duty doctor in A & E some time ago that the Tegretol which i take interacts with an AB and causes it to leave my body more quickly than usual. Thus it is necessary to have 5 days not 3. However I have mentioned this to more than 1 GP since then and they did not appear to agree.
I usually get an AB just as I am due to go on holiday when there is no time to see a GP or get a sample tested! This occasion is an exception to that.
I hope you find a solution too.
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It is a high dose AB for 3 days. But you need to knock this on the head! A good pain relief, good hygiene down there because many bugs live in the back passage, get urine samples checked in a Lab. to make sure they are clear. Let us know how you get on!
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It is a high dose AB for 3 days. But you need to knock this on the head! A good pain relief, good hygiene down there because many bugs live in the back passage, get urine samples checked in a Lab. to make sure they are clear. Let us know how you get on!
The last test was inconclusive but the symptoms were pretty typical. I have done another sample today but won't get the result until next week.
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Vaginal atrophy mimics urine infection-type symptoms!! Maybe ask for VA treatment anyway?
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Vaginal atrophy mimics urine infection-type symptoms!! Maybe ask for VA treatment anyway?
I do already use Estriol cream. I will apply some tonight before taking the additional 2 days of Trimethroprim.
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My symptoms do not seem to be passing despite drinking, cymalon and doing all the personal hygiene stuff. I am worried that it will get worse over the weekend. Should I try taking another course of cymalon?
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sidse - what symptoms are you getting? Do you feel you need to pee all the time? Do you have burning urethra? Do you have lower abdominal pain?
I think you need to see the GP today or at least ask for a telephone consultation for advice as you don't want things to flare up over the weekend. If the dip stick only shows blood then it's likely to be atrophy related I think and if so you have simply got to keep using the Vagifem and moisturisers and Multi Gyn until things settle - this can take some weeks!!!
If you run a temperature and have abdominal pain then you probably need ABs a.s.a.p. The problems is that UTI symptoms are the same as interstitial cystitis and urogenital atrophy and without proper tests for infection it's difficult to know what is needed and often ABs are given in the mean time 'just in case' or infection could travel to the kidneys.
Seek professional advice. DG x
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Hi Dancinggirl,
I don't feel the need to pee all the time and don't have a burning sensation all the time. When I do go for a pee, it is slow to come and the flow is not right. The rest of the time, I feel a dragging sensation and general discomfort.
Just before xmas, I did have abdominal pain and a temperature and the urine samples came back as positive. I am also constipated at the moment and have read that the straining from that ( sorry to be so graphic) can cause the urethra to become bruised and give the symptoms of a UTI
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Hi Dancinggirl,
I don't feel the need to pee all the time and don't have a burning sensation all the time. When I do go for a pee, it is slow to come and the flow is not right. The rest of the time, I feel a dragging sensation and general discomfort.
Just before xmas, I did have abdominal pain and a temperature and the urine samples came back as positive. I am also constipated at the moment and have read that the straining from that ( sorry to be so graphic) can cause the urethra to become bruised and give the symptoms of a UTI
It can still be an infection without the burning sensation. I only ever had that once. I get the dull ache and discomfort but not burning. Mine seems to have mysteriously improved overnight after using Estriol so I am going to hold off the AB for a day or two. I agree that constipation could make the effect worse. I am not familiar with Cymalon so don't know if it would help.
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That's good news Katejo. Cymalon is just something to neutralize the acid - would probably be able to use bicarb to get the same effect. Hope yours continues to improve.
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sidse - if you are constipated then this can effect everything. My theory - and this is ‘my' theory based on logic - is that everything gets squashed around our lower abdominal area as we age and the lack of oestrogen makes everything sag and relax - so the urethra is under pressure so can become sore and swollen - this can also lead to urine retention which can lead to infection. Drinking lots of water is essential to keep things clear.
When I had a cystoscopy, the urologist also 'stretched' my urethra (most unpleasant) which improved the urine flow for about 2 weeks and then it went back to a trickle. Unless my bladder is really full, the flow is poor and I have to consciously relax and sit for a while to make sure I've evacuated all the urine. When I get up to pee at night, the flow is much better and I think this is because I've been lying down and the pressure on the urethra and bladder has been less.
The pressure on the urethra is greater if we are tense, constipated, dehydrated, sitting for too long etc so this will result in a poor urine flow. We are meant to do pelvic floor exercises but it is also important to totally relax our pelvic floor as well when peeing.
If you do the bicarb in water, this will not only neutralise that urine, it will also help with the constipation (it's a mild laxative). Drink plenty of water and really up your fibre intake e.g. bran, fruit, veg, beans etc. - cut out chocolate, red meat and anything that is binding. The other really important thing is exercise - brisk walking is great but we all have a gym in our house and that is 'the stairs' (unless you live in a bungalow of course). Try going up and down these 10 times in one go as fast as you can and do this 3 times a day.
DG x
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Good advice DG. Is it a waste of time taking D Mannose at the same time as the bicarb/cymalon? I am also taking a new medication, quetiapine and I have read that one of the side effects is urinary retention which is not good for someone with a predisposition to UTIs
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What is the quetiapine for?
You could contour with the Dmannose but this is expensive so you could try just the bicarbonate option but make sure you drink 1.5 litres each day.
Get your body moving, get the bowels moving, keep using the local Oestrogen and drink enough water and hopefully things will settle. If you develop any true sign of infection then get professional help. DG x
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Still struggling. The urine sample has tested negative for any infection although it hasn't been sent off to the lab just tested in the surgery. Running out of ideas to make myself comfortable especially to be able to sleep. I am using vagifem, cymalon and Dmannose and drinking lots. I haven't taken any painkillers yet but will do this evening to see if that helps me be comfortable enough to sleep.
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Try an antihistamine tablet sidse.it will work.x If the bladder is producing too much histamine it can cause pain.its all to do with mast cells.do some research for more info xx
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Thanks Daisy. Can it be any antihistamine? I probably have some from last years hay fever season
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Yes Benadryl or similar.research bladder and mast cells a bit on google so you get the idea of what it does it'll surprise you.you have to remember if the bladder gets inflamed it can take a good 6 months to heal itself so when you get a bad attack like your obviously getting always try an antihistamine, remember they can make you drowsy so follow instructions on pack good luck xx
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Try an antihistamine tablet sidse.it will work.x If the bladder is producing too much histamine it can cause pain.its all to do with mast cells.do some research for more info xx
It has never occurred to me to try antihistamine to help the bladder! I must try that one. I have some because i need them occasionally. I must test that method. Anything to avoid needing an AB and a trip to the GP. My symptoms haven't completely gone but are mild irritation so I will wait for the urine test result next week and try an antihistamine now. I will look up bladder and mast cells now.
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Unless the sample is sent off and as it's a weekend, I don't expect that your GP would consider it! then take an over the counter pain relief to ease symptoms. Certainly when I was constipated recently I had a return of symptoms, had never put the two together but once I had used 24 hours of Ovestin and pain relief, I felt better.
Use the Vagifem every night, if necessary two for 3 nights then 1 ....... and see if symptoms ease. It can take a while!
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Really was very uncomfortable trying to sleep last night. The irritation and burning seemed to be right at the opening of the urethra. I took some bicarb in water and a strong pain killer and managed to sleep. Have any of you used Pyridium which apparently has an anesthetic effect on the bladder. I have taken an antihistamine but so far nothing seems to be working.
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The bicarb will work to sooth the burning and using an antihistamine at night is a good idea. Try buying Nytol from the chemist - the one with an antihistamine in it (not the herbal) - as this will help you to sleep and should calm the bladder as well. Piriton is also good.
Phenazopyridine ( Pyridium) might be worth trying but the antihistamine may also work. The discomfort of the during urethra is horrid - I sympathise. DG x
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Keep taking the antihistamine sidse it will help to calm the bladder eventually it took a while to help calm mines down and my urethra pain was horrible.are you being careful with the dietary side of things as it can be an everyday food/drink that will kick off that inflammation,I darent touch tomatoes or cream sauces of any kind or even things like grapes and esp coffee so research the bladder friendly foods and avoid anything acidic,it's a long process it's taken me months to get to where I am now.good luck.x
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Hi sidse, I have been following your thread and was hoping you would begin to feel better. I had constant UTI's for more than six months last year and was given all the usual meds that are given. Eventually one off the more enlightened gp's decided that perhaps they should get the sample sent off for further testing as I was by then at the end of my tether and constantly in pain and crying because basically I couldn't go anywhere. The results showed a hard to treat bacteria and I was then prescribed a very strong antibiotic (sorry I can't remember the name). After one week I didn't feel it had cleared and so was reluctantly given a second prescription. I say reluctantly because of course one prescription would usually work and doctors are not keen to let you keep taking AB's. Meanwhile the same gp suggested going on Vagifem and I did the two week load and now do three times a week. Getting the right diagnosis after many months of meds, tests at the hospital for bladder function, a cystoscopy etc. I finally got my life back so I would really recommend you asking for your sample to be sent off for a proper testing as this might be all that you need to get better and do keep on with the Vagifem. Good luck
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Thank you Herdwick. After my last UTI I was given Fosfomycin which none of the local chemists had and gp hadn't heard of. I didn't ask if that was given( in hospital) because of an unusual bacteria. I will ask for my sample to be tested in a lab. How did you mange to keep going over those six months?
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Have just found an unused bottle of Uta Ursi in my medicine cabinet and have given that a go - desperate!
Anyone else used it with success? I am feeling very weak today like I have the flu, don't know how I would be coping if it wasn't for my DP fetching and carrying for me.
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If you are feeling that ill then it is almost certainly an infection. I would see if you can see an out of hours doctor. Can't remember the number but your surgery website should have it.
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Do let us know how you get on. Do take a pain relief regularly and the vagifem, if necessary a small amount 3 times a day as well as in the night.
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I found it really hard sidse. It wasn't until I finally got to report it to the same doctor three times in a row that she took a look at my notes and decided she needed to be proactive. I hate to say it but I also think it was because the other three gp's were men one of which twice said no need to take in a sample as I was obviously susceptible to UTI's and just prescribed the usual meds. Cancelling a trip to see our lovely grandchildren in London is what finished me off and I basically broke down on the phone and she could tell how much of a toll it was taking
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Well I have taken the sachet of Fosfomycin that I had after my last uti flare up so fingers crossed it may work. I have also used something called AZO which I got from amazon - it is supposed to numb the pain in the bladder. Hopefully will be able to get some sleep and a bit of respite.
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Good luck
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Did manage o get some sleep but only because of AZO which can only be taken for a couple of days. Beginning to think I may have interstitial cystitis. Anyone else got that?
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Get thyself a fresh urine sample and take it to the Surgery and ask for it to be sent to a Lab. for testing.
In the meantime, continue with pain relief and vagifem?
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If you've taken the Azo then there is no point in giving a new urine sample yet as it doesn't give a true picture. I'm not sure how long you have to wait but it should tell you on the instructions. It also messes with ketones results too.
Although your symptoms could be IC they are also spot on for vaginal atrophy especially the pain at the entrance to the urethra. Could your other medication be complicating things?
Taz x
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Hi Taz, I knew about the AZO and sample. They are going to send the sample from Friday to the lab. It is difficult to know what is causing this. I will continue to use the vagifem daily and will take the antihistamine too as Daisy suggested. I really hope it is VA rather than IC as the former is more treatable. I also think that I am very run down after a period of not sleeping. And yes, I do think my other medication is complicating things but I have to keep taking it. Have you heard of Hiprex? It is recommended on the badder uk side. Really clutching at straws now.
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Tnx Taz, forgot about the time lapse required :-\
Maybe sidse use more of the 'vagifem' i.e. 3 times a day?
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CKLD - is there anything else that I could use in addition to vagifem to calm things down locally?
I am now at a loss as to what to do and feel that my body doesn't know whether it is coming or going with the things that I am desperately throwing at it.
I had a little bit of respite using AZO last night and maybe the fosfomycin, I just have a constant feeling of irritation at the end of the urethra and when I pee, the flow is very odd, sort of stop start.
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Probably due to you being sore down there. You could gently apply something soothing, i.e. LIVE yoghurt. This is soothing as well as slippery enough to part the 'lips' in order to keep them 'oiled' if that makes sense :-\. I use KY Jelly or Savlon, Vaseline can also help. Regular application.
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The stop start flow is normal when we hit menopause - you need to practise really relaxing the pelvic floor when peeing.
All the strategies we have suggested will help but this is not a quite fix scenario - it will take some weeks for things to settle very gradually. The more you relax the better. Do try lying down after lunch for an hour as the will take the pressure off the bladder and urethra. DG x
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I am realising that it is not a quick fix- I am pretty rubbish at tolerating pain and discomfort. I find lying down seems to make things worse as my brain just then focuses on the discomfort. Hence sleeping is difficult and t was already quite difficult. I will try and be brave and keep going. Thanks for all your support ladies, it has been really appreciated.x
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Listen - listen to us who have been in similar situations. Keep up with the vagifem, regular pain relief and other lubricants around the outer are of the vagina. The body doesn't get where it is suddenly so takes a while to readjust. Don't give up! This too will pass.
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I am obviously avoiding coffee and tea whilst dealing with this, does anyone have any suggestions for hot drinks - I have some herbal teas but wonder if they are actually quite acidic.
I still have symptoms but am trying to keep hoping that the fosfomycin has worked. Just feel that the whole of my nether regions are inflamed.
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Sometimes you have to laugh about these things. I had a urine test over a week ago and it was inconclusive so the GP asked me to have it done again a week later (to allow for time after finishing the Trimethroprim). I did that and was expecting the result now. I got a call this morning asking me to have the test again. I didn't object as I am not sure whether it has cleared or not but asked their reason for the repeat. Apparently the label on the container got lost in transit...! :D I hope that is a genuine reason and not one to stop me wondering whether they have found something nasty.
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Listen - listen to us who have been in similar situations. Keep up with the vagifem, regular pain relief and other lubricants around the outer are of the vagina. The body doesn't get where it is suddenly so takes a while to readjust. Don't give up! This too will pass.
What advantages does Vagifem have over Estriol in your experience? I intend to make an appointment with my preferred doctor to ask to try it but I am expecting resistance so want some solid reasons.
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For sidse try some redbush vanilla tea from tetley,around £2-50 for a box in Asda,it's really pleasant to drink and it has no caffeine at all ,it's actually a herb not a tea,one if the other ladies I recommended it to is now sleeping like a baby and I'm so pleased it's helped her.i now get a good 7 hours nightly.
Katejo the advantage is Vagifem is so much easier to use it comes in its own individual wrapper with the tablet already fitted in it so you just insert the plunger and job done.the estriol cream is so messy and seems to glob out the whole day,if you work or travel it's just easier and you wouldn't lose so much iof the product with the leakage.i have tried both.
That's a very common problem with samples at gps as the nurse told me they keep all the samples till they have a decent amount to go to labs at the end of the day so there's bound to be a few casualties.hope this helps ladies.x
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For sidse try some redbush vanilla tea from tetley,around £2-50 for a box in Asda,it's really pleasant to drink and it has no caffeine at all ,it's actually a herb not a tea,one if the other ladies I recommended it to is now sleeping like a baby and I'm so pleased it's helped her.i now get a good 7 hours nightly.
Katejo the advantage is Vagifem is so much easier to use it comes in its own individual wrapper with the tablet already fitted in it so you just insert the plunger and job done.the estriol cream is so messy and seems to glob out the whole day,if you work or travel it's just easier and you wouldn't lose so much iof the product with the leakage.i have tried both.
That's a very common problem with samples at gps as the nurse told me they keep all the samples till they have a decent amount to go to labs at the end of the day so there's bound to be a few casualties.hope this helps ladies.x
Yes I agree that the Estriol is messy! I handed my previous sample in at the very end of the day to be kept in the fridge overnight. I did try Redbush tea some time ago but wasn't keen on it.
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The NHS come up with weird and wonderful excuses >:(. Probably the container got damp in the fridge over-night so the label peeled off, why not have proper labels?
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As I said katejo it's very common so i wouldn't be unduly worried they'd soon call you in if there were any issues.
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Sidse have you tried organic coconut oil smeared downstairs it's antibacterial so it's very good for a multitude of things buy a small blue jar from Holland and barrat for £2 it's not expensive and last ages.
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As I said katejo it's very common so i wouldn't be unduly worried they'd soon call you in if there were any issues.
OK. I was half joking about the bad news. I haven't had a lost label before.
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Oh I have ..... as well as the sample not being delivered to the Lab. on time when the GP took a batch himself ::). They work 9-5 after all so not every sample can go through the system and if the Hospital is making demands on equipment?
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Oh I have ..... as well as the sample not being delivered to the Lab. on time when the GP took a batch himself ::). They work 9-5 after all so not every sample can go through the system and if the Hospital is making demands on equipment?
The young reception guy who took it from me looked as thought he wasn't quite sure what to do with it. He did ask someone else but still seemed vague.
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I will try the tea and the coconut oil, thanks. Talking about samples, the nurse said that my sample given on Friday and having tested negative on the dip test, is being sent to the labs. Is there much point in that? The sample I gave was after a day of drinking lots and taking cymalon so the sample was very dilute.
I now have an upset tummy to add to everything- think it is probably the fosfomycin.
I have upped the dose of vagifem to see if that makes a difference but as I am now doing lots of different things, it is hard to see the wood from the trees. I am sure if men were prone to UTIs, there would be a cure by now.
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I'd take a step back now sidse if it was me,I've had to do this before as you get yourself so caught up in trying to resolve it.
Keep up the vagifem even doing a nightly dose to get you over this flare up,then use the coconut oil to prevent any bacteria getting a grip,slap it on as many times as you want to from morning to night but not at same time as vagifem,it's excellent for thrush etc,keep it room temperature so it stays runny,it has no shelf life as it's antibacterial apparently.it solidifies if you put it in the fridge.
Try this for a day or two and take the redbush vanilla tea instead of usual tea/coffee,you shouldn't need sugar with the vanilla one,also drink plenty water,you can also take a spoon of the coconut oil so it will work from both directions,it also helps with constipation which will take away the pressure from your bladder and help reduce the inflammation.it really is trial and error wether it's I.C or inflammatory bladder or whatever name they decide to give it,you have to test things till you find a regime that works for you it took me a long long time and I was in a terrible state with it and couldn't risk any more reactions with antibiotics,my immune system was in a really bad way.you do have my sympathy it's no joke lying there focussing on that pain so keep plodding away you will get there.good luck xx
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Thanks Daisy. It sounds like you have been through the mill. Can I ask what worked for you? What reactions did you get from antibiotics? I am still taking the antihistamine that you suggested too but I guess that that also takes time to kick in. Did you use the UK Badder association , I think it is called COB? I have had a look at their site and scared myself silly as there are lots of stories of people who have IC and it sounds almost impossible to treat. There is one doctor in London who specialises in it and most people see him privately which would be out of the question for me. Really, really hope I don't have that. This is my third bout in 10 months. The first settled down using Dmannose. The second was definitely caused by too much coffee etc and was treated with the fosfomycin but I think this one has been caused by becoming run down and dehydrated and possibly reacting to a new medication.
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Wow Daisy, I thought that it was just me not liking the site. I much prefer this one. If this does continue, I will also try to get an ultrasound. Is the ultrasound invasive stuff just to rule out cancer? I know about prelief but it is expensive. Diet wise, the only thing that I am missing is tea otherwise I can steer clear of coffee wine tomatoes and spicy food. Did you ever try amitriptyline to dampen down the pain enough to sleep?
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Sorry Daisy, one more question. For the treatment of the VA, did you use vagifem or the cream - sorry can't remember the name? I am thinking that the vagifem may not be doing the job for me as all the burning and discomfort is at the opening of the urethra. So far, I haven't had any pain further up. I will of course try the coconut oil.
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The ultra sound is non invasive sidse so get that “C†word out your head that's another reason I didn't like that site,you will work yourself into a frenzy.you can beat this with a bit of work and research.amitriptyline is very good at dampening down the nerves in the bladder so you could try it it if the other stuff doesn't help but give it time it's a slow heal with the bladder,do all the stuff you spoke about but remember when you feel better doing no take risks or you'll be right back at square one and it begins all over again.as I said I'm no expert but this is what worked for me intitially so be patient and try this suggestion for a few days and see how you go.good luck xx
Stick with the vagifem sidse the estriol cream may not agree with you but you can smear it outside and near the urethra opening if you wish to try it.
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Ps one of our ladies advised me to point the vagifem applicator at my belly when I put it inside rather than aiming to go high up internally as she had found that helped the urethra more so that's what I do.hope you understand what I mean lol.
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Keep up with the atrophy treatment ;-)
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I think I get what you mean Daisy about positioning the vagifem. I am getting through my vagifem stock at a rate of knots so I hope they don't refuse another prescription. I am trying to imagine that my bladder and urethra are healing ( sounds a bit daft I know) and am using AZO at night only to prioritise sleep.
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That's good sidse fingers crossed you'll find some relief soon x
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I am trying my best to be patient but I am getting no relief from my symptoms. I also now have an upset tummy which is probably down to the Fosfomycin. It is affecting my quality of life as the burning/discomfort is constant about from about five minutes after I wee then the discomfort starts building again. Any ideas?
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All I can add is keep that urine ph as neutral as you can by drinking plenty water and avoid acidic fooods and drink,if nothing I'm suggesting is helping quickly enough for you then you'll maybe have to visit your gp again and see if they can make any suggestions but as I said it's a long process to heal the bladder and urethra and the slightest thing can set you back very quickly,all I can do is report from my personal experience,things may not be so cut and dried for you but you have no options really other than persist with what your doing.if you think the vagifem is the cause of your irritant you could try non hormonal hyalofemme internally,I used that before the vagifem,you can buy from amazon.its quite pleasant to use but it's all trial and error.you have to decide, it could just click all of a sudden.good luck.x
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Thanks daisy, don't want you to feel that I am not grateful for your advice, I am so grateful. I am just not very good at handling pain and discomfort - I don't suppose many people are. I have just upped my dose of D-mannose as I had stopped taking it when I took the antibiotics. My son has just made dinner- it was a posh salad with a tomato and rosemary dressing. Obviously, I didn't have the dressing!!! Thanks for taking the time to help me x
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Don't apologise sidse there's no need all I can do is give you the stuff I had to do,it's so hard to try and get things stable again but it's also too easy to over complicate things by fighting on too many fronts,that's why I said I'd personally step back,look at the situation and then start with the very basics and yes it'll take time but you don't really have much choice there is no quick fix when your trying to sort these things out ,it has to be one obstacle at a time and sometimes like when you treat the V.A The urinary problems will resolve as well.time and patience is all you need now as there not many options left.dmannose is only useful if you have an ecoli infection so I'd save my money on that one just now it won't do much.give the basic remedies a chance to work before introducing the other stuff or you won't have a clue what's helping.keep plodding away and good luck x
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Hi sidse - Have you explored the possibility that the Quetiapine (Seroquel) could be the cause of your discomfort? One of the side effects is inflammation of the vagina and bladder problems.
"Seroquel can affect the functioning of the bladder, kidneys and reproductive organs. Side effects include absence of the menstrual period, vaginal inflammation, urinary incontinence, impotence, painful urination, abnormal ejaculation, urinary tract infection, painful menstruation, vaginal hemorrhage, inflammation of the testes, gynecomastia and urinary frequency."
Taz x
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Taz, I think that Quetiapine is affecting my entire body in a negative way. Can I ask where you got that information?I have looked at the side effects but have only seen urinary retention. I am seeing the doctor that prescribed it this morning and would like to talk about coming off it.
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Great advice taz2 so hopefully it'll help point sidse in the right direction now it's been so frustrating for her,well done ladies,sidse let's know what doc says.xx
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Well, I am going to be tapering off quetiapine. They didn't seem to take seriously the above side effects saying that I had two previous UTIs before I started quetiapine, which is true I suppose. I don't want to tempt fate, but I feel slightly more comfortable today so I am hoping that this may be the beginning of the end of it. If it isn't no doubt I will be back on here getting advice from you amazing ladies!
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At least you have some other options now sidse but as you say let's hope it's your immune system that's kicked in now,that sometimes happens even if it's a uti,keep doing what your doing and good luck x
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Sorry - were the UTI's diagnosed by lab. results, I can't remember - Meno-brained even more after a very busy 2 days moving furniture ::)
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Hope you get some relief soon sidse
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CLKD - the one that I had before xmas was positive and that's when I was given fosfomycin. This one has been sent off to the lab and I don't know the result( assume it is negative) but I had another one off dose of fosfomycin which I took - I know this is controversial but I was desperate.
Today, I feel that it has 90% resolved but I am going to take the advice of doing things to be very gentle on the bladder and keep using the vagifem but not quite as often. I can't tell you what bliss it is having some relief.
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Use the Vagifem every night for at least 2 weeks and once the Lab. Report is back, review. By then symptoms should be more controllable.
Keep us up to date.
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My symptoms are back, I am so gutted. The only thing that I had stopped doing was taking the antihistamine which I will now reintroduce. I will also admit to having had a very weak cup of tea so it's back to camomile. The flow of my urine is not right, sort of stop start. Someone commented upthread that this happens in the menopause but the flow was fine before this started. I also have a lot of pain in my tailbone and I know that nerves travel from that area to the bladder so I am now wondering if that is causing the bladder not to empty properly. I must be coming across as completely obsessed by all this..... I hope ladies who have had this understand.Really fed up.
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Constipation can manifest itself around the tail bone. When my VA is threatening I feel constipated >:( .......... how often are U applying the Vagifem? If necessary, 3 times a day for 3 nights might ease symptoms then back to nightly. Some ladies have found that the 10 ? mg ? isn't enough as initially, the product was sold at 25!
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Thanks CLKD. I have an upset tummy probably because of the antibiotics. My tail bone was damaged when I fell on it about 5 years ago but it is probably playing up now because of my tummy upset. I am using vagifem twice a day and am running low on supplies but I could try three times a day for a couple of days. Does VA get worse as women age? I am 56 and have had no other symptoms of VA apart from UTIs. It was a nice GP ( sadly don't often get to see her as she is so popular) that suggested I start using vagifem as I had already had 2 UTIs in six months otherwise I probably would never have had it. I only started to use it about a month ago before this UTI started.I would love this to be a VA issue as at least I can do something about it. I really am hoping it is not Interstitial cystitis as that sounds miserable and difficult to treat.
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Hi sidse sorry to read this today.stress also plays a huge part in this,forget about I.C it's just a label as far as I'm concerned which they use when they don't really know what's going on with your bladder.
Antihistamines are also used to treat anxiety on a short term basis they have been found to have a calming effect on the brain,Hydroxyzine is the most commonly prescribed one for anxiety.They can also be very addictive hence the short term use so just be careful.Im wondering now if because it's making you anxious your unwittingly inflaming your bladder so your in a vicious circle,maybe ask your doc for something like amytriptalin to help calm the nerve endings in the bladder until it settles down a bit and has time to heal.m just guessing at this so obviously discuss the idea with your gp next week explaining you've had a flare up since stopping the antihistamine.its certainly worth a try.good luck.x
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I am not normally an anxious person but having a uti makes me anxious because I can't relax. I am not sure that my GP will prescribe those medications but I will ask. I feel it is the nerve endings at the end of the urethra that are constantly firing but obviously something is happening in the bladder too as it is not emptying properly. I just wish I could forget about it for a while it was so nice to have half a day without it........
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Do get another script 4 vagifem. VA should not get worse once it's under control which is trial and error. It will recur if treatment isn't continued, treatment really is for Life.
I C can be problematic. Also certain germs may travel into the kidneys which will require long-term AB treatment. Vaginal atrophy mimics symptoms of urine infections - once a sample has been returned from the Lab without growth ABs are not required but VA treatment is. If the regular use of vagifem isn't enough, you might like to try Ovestin1g which is more messy but doesn't have the same irritations that vagifem may cause.
When ever I have had ABs I have eaten LIVE yoghurt after the Course, to encourage good bacteria throughout the digestive tract which ABs may kill off. Lots of LIVE, off a tablespoon .........
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F your unhappy ask for an ultrasound scan and that will tell you and gp exactly how much urine is being left behind in bladder,they scan you on a full bladder then you empty then they scan you again and they can see exactly what's left and this can be a cause of uti,s.i had my dnd privately same day results in hand and copied to gp for £80 no referral needed it's the baby scan places who do them,they are also contracted out to nhs.
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I am not normally an anxious person but having a uti makes me anxious because I can't relax. I am not sure that my GP will prescribe those medications but I will ask. I feel it is the nerve endings at the end of the urethra that are constantly firing but obviously something is happening in the bladder too as it is not emptying properly. I just wish I could forget about it for a while it was so nice to have half a day without it........
Maybe you are still suffering from the effects of the other medication you were taking? Do you mind me asking what you have been given instead?
Taz x :)
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Good idea Daisydot. Peace of mind!
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I am tapering off the quetiapine and have started taking fluoxetine. I am wondering if the AZO has irritated my urethra. It was great when my pain and paining were at their worst.
I am going to drink lots today to see if I can make the bladder as full as possible and try to hold off emptying to see if a very full bladder affects the flow. I will certainly think about asking for an ultrasound scan. Would there be a chance of getting one on the NHS?
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It's usually one of the first investigations a gp would refer you for so yes it can be done on the nhs.
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I have just read most of 'the burning club' thread and now understand why all you Ladies have so much knowledge and understanding.
It is very inspiring how many people are trying to work this out for themselves often without support from their doctors.
I am still struggling with my symptoms and am trying to stay calm(very difficult). I can cope during the day but the worst is at night when it is difficult to get settled and sleep.
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Maybe take a good pain relief tablet 30 mins. B4 bed? It will relax you if nothing else ;-)
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Have you tried the Nytol yet sidsie? DG x
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No, haven't tried the Nytol yet- bit worried about taking another antihistamine as I am taking a non drowsy one during the day. I don't find that normal pain relief helps sadly, I suppose that is why amitriptyline works as it targets nerve pain. I just wish my brain didn't have to focus on my nether regions, even when the burning isn't bad I still have twinges and discomfort. Just back from my pharmacy and I have a new batch of vagifem and they have given me more fosfomycin!!! They haven't even told me the result of the lab test so I am extremely surprised that they have given me them again.
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Vagifem should work, if not ask for Ovestin and compare?
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My burning is so bad today. Up until now, I would say that it was easing off by 5% each day with one day of total relief. I am really not sure what to do and am very confused as to what this is. I have really upped the vagifem so if it is a VA issue, I would have expected a slow improvement( I know that it can take months). I am truly at my wits end, not sleeping which of course doesn't help my body to heal. Apologies for the constant posting :(
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It shouldn't take months if it is vaginal atrophy. The preparations usually begin easing symptoms within a couple of weeks ...... for me it was like razor blades up there :-\.
Did U get any insight from the 'burning club' thread?
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sidse - utrogenital atrophy an take at least 3 months before real improvement is seen.
Are you doing the bicarb in water thing? Are you drinking 1.5 litres of water each day? Do you wear loose clothes? Do you go out for brisk walks to get the circulation going?
Have you done the 2 week load of Vagifem? If so, are you now using it every 3 days? Do you use the vaginal moisturiser? Are you getting any vaginal itching or soreness?
Try using some kitchen roll wetted with cold water and holding that against your intimate area - can be very soothing.
Try not taking the antihistamine during the day but take Nytol before bed. DG x
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Hi again sides
Here is a section from an article about atrophy written by Dr Heather Currie in the MM magazine that may be of interest to you:
To treat the underlying vaginal changes due to the lack of estrogen, the treatment that is most likely to revert the changes and restore the tissues to their former health is estrogen. If just treating the vagina and/or bladder symptoms of the menopause, then very low dose vaginal estrogen in the form of a very small tablet inserted with an applicator, vaginal cream which can also be applied to the outer area (the vulva), a pessary, or a vaginal ring which is replaced every 3 months can be used. These estrogen preparations are very effective and are not associated with risks which should be considered when using Hormone Replacement Therapy since they give a very low dose of estrogen which is concentrated in the vagina and bladder. Any vaginal estrogen preparation should be used for at least 3 months before the expected benefit will be achieved and should be continued long-term, perhaps even indefinitely. Many women are only given a short course of treatment and are disappointed when the symptoms may not be fully treated, or may return when treatment is stopped. We now recognise that these changes persist and gradually worsen without treatment and therefore treatment should be continued; menopausal vaginal changes are not like menopausal flushes and sweats which will reduce or even stop in most women at some stage.
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Thanks that is very clear. Three months!!! I will try to be patient. I was at the back of the queue when they handed out stoicism.
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Tnx DG. I missed the patience gene :-\
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I haven't been following this thread much but has anyone mentioned bladder stones. If so just ignore me.
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Hi again sides
Here is a section from an article about atrophy written by Dr Heather Currie in the MM magazine that may be of interest to you:
To treat the underlying vaginal changes due to the lack of estrogen, the treatment that is most likely to revert the changes and restore the tissues to their former health is estrogen. If just treating the vagina and/or bladder symptoms of the menopause, then very low dose vaginal estrogen in the form of a very small tablet inserted with an applicator, vaginal cream which can also be applied to the outer area (the vulva), a pessary, or a vaginal ring which is replaced every 3 months can be used. These estrogen preparations are very effective and are not associated with risks which should be considered when using Hormone Replacement Therapy since they give a very low dose of estrogen which is concentrated in the vagina and bladder. Any vaginal estrogen preparation should be used for at least 3 months before the expected benefit will be achieved and should be continued long-term, perhaps even indefinitely. Many women are only given a short course of treatment and are disappointed when the symptoms may not be fully treated, or may return when treatment is stopped. We now recognise that these changes persist and gradually worsen without treatment and therefore treatment should be continued; menopausal vaginal changes are not like menopausal flushes and sweats which will reduce or even stop in most women at some stage.
A year or so ago I had an argument with 1 woman GP who insisted it wasn't safe to use a vaginal HRT like Estriol or similar for more than 3 months. She actually got up and shouted at me that she had just done a course on this and so knew better than I did! I have avoided seeing her for anything ever since. I did mention her response to another doctor who looked somewhat surprised.
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Did she fall asleep during the Course?
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CLKD - ;D ;D ;D
Katejo - she had probably misunderstood what was said - “it takes at least 3 months for benefits to be achievedâ€.
Silly women. This is why I always recommend women go to their GPs with print outs of the information needed.
DG x
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Well, I had a burning free day yesterday and was so grateful and then today I work up with it again. There does not appear to be a pattern to this and I haven't changed what I am doing. I was going to treat myself to some weak normal tea this morning too.
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Maybe it's time now sidse to go to gp and ask for that ultrasound investigation at least then you'll know if your bladders hoarding any urine it's not fair you having this and the anxiety is so bad for the bladder.xx
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I will see how I am for the rest of the week and then make an appointment. I have had no burning since first thing this morning so am hoping for the best:)
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Why don't you make the appointment and cancel it if you don't need it.
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Don't be scared sidse it's non invasive and it's not even uncomfortable just like having a baby scan done at least it would put your mind at rest.xx
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I am not worried about having a scan it is just such a palava getting a GP appointment especially with the one that I like that I just want to make sure that I need it. I feel 80% better with just a slight twinge now and again.
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I have been on Vagifem for 15 weeks, I took it every day for 2 weeks and then 3 times a week for 5 weeks, then I was told to up it to 5 times a week. I'm at my wits end because it isn't alleviating the UTI symptoms (the soreness and burning has improved a bit). I have taken on board all the advice on the this forum to do with diet, gels, creams, d-mannose, bicarb, no caffeine etc etc. Can it take months and months to work?
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It's encouraging that the soreness has improved but i feel that the constant feeling of needing to empty your bladder may need investigating. You should ask for a referral to a urinary/continence specialist clinic. Here you will have your bladder function assessed and find out the reason for your discomfort. Bladders come become overactive. Apologies if you've already had these tests done
Taz x
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I have been on Vagifem for 15 weeks, I took it every day for 2 weeks and then 3 times a week for 5 weeks, then I was told to up it to 5 times a week. I'm at my wits end because it isn't alleviating the UTI symptoms (the soreness and burning has improved a bit). I have taken on board all the advice on the this forum to do with diet, gels, creams, d-mannose, bicarb, no caffeine etc etc. Can it take months and months to work?
Have you had another urine test sent for analysis to see if there is an infection now? I have just started taking Vagifem (3 weeks ago) . You may have seen my other entries about it.
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I haven't recently because I was fed up going back and forward and being told no infection. I am also on full HRT (since May) which has been fantastic in eliminating my hot flushes but hasn't helped with the VA.
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Hi Drummer girl
I don't post often but read quite a bit on here...I saw your post and had to answer. I have been on full HRT since May 2017 and vagifem since Aug 2017 using 3 a week also use and been using bicarb, sylk, yes, d mannose- the lot same as you...I am 90% better but really only just recently so in my experience it has taken over a year to feel somewhat normal but I still have some burning uncomfortable days ...keep using it all xx
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Also this product isn't strong enough for some to get relief so maybe use it nightly for a week and see how you feel. You may require alternate nights or every night ...........
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Hi Drummer girl
Have you tried high strength cranberry tablets?
I suffered from recurrent UTI's for about 4 years and tried everything. I read about cranberry tablets and asked my doctor what he thought about them. He advised me that clinical literature on Cranberry juice is mixed, but most placebo controlled trials showing no benefit. However he said it was worth a try.
All I can say is that was over 7 years ago and I haven't had a single UTI since, so they work for me.
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Unfortunately if the UTI symptoms are atrophy related then cranberry or any fruit juices will make the burning worse as they are very acidic due to the high sugar.
Avoid anything with caffiene or even tannin as well. Water is the best to drink but some find adding half a teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda or a squirt of fresh lemon juice can neutralise the urine and relieve burning. I think the key is to not to let the urine become too strong and keep flushing out the bladder so infection can't take hold. DG x
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I asked my doc once, about sugar and the urine connection, and he laughed. I sometimes pass sugar in my wee as I have a low renal threshold. He was adamant that there was no connection with that and UTIs. This was when I was very ill with a kidney infection and was looking for an explanation.
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Thank you Shadyglade - I'm not sure where I got the connection between sugar and more acidity in the urine - all I know is if I do have high sugar drinks, like fruit juices, my urine burns like crazy. I can drink greatly diluted cordials though.
DG x
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I won't be surprised if it caused Inflammation, but that is different to infection. Sugar is a bit of a bugger, but soo nice. ::)
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Thrush thrives on sugars. However the body needs fats, oils, sugars, carbohydrates, meat, veg. in order to function.
Thrush has classic symptoms. Itchyiness high up in the vagina and if left untreated, a creamy discharge that smells fishy.
Cranberry juice has no obvious benefits other than to the company that makes it ;)
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Dancing girl, my previous post was about cranberry tablets, not juice, hence no worry about sugar content. Anyway, it was just a thought, as they work for me 😃
Also, CLKD, I'm sure that a fishy smelling discharge is related to BV, not thrush.
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Might be but when I had thrush there was an odour ;)
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Wouldn't take the antibiotics unless you have a full course.If it's any help, I take a cranberry & probiotic all in one capsule daily & a full glass of cranberry juice,I've not had a uti since........... probably shouldn't have said that :-\
Hope you feel better soon
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Any info is shared jaypo - ladies can then make up their own minds wether the idea is appropriate at this particular time ;)