Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Jbee on March 10, 2018, 04:20:42 PM
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Hi All,
I am very ill with anxiety and depression my family are on suicide watch so please bare with me this is hard. I had a uti in October and was given 3 days of ab's. it didn't clear but tests came back negative to bacteria very low white blood count blood in urine. I went for tests to see if it was anything sinister they found inflammation in the trizone. I made an appointment with the professor in London I have been on antibiotics for month.
GP I was seeing said just paracetamol and drink.
Went to another GP she gave me Pregablin for anxiety and suggested vagifem I used for 6 days and my stomach area became very swollen pressing on my bladder caused a terrible flare I stopped using. I thought it might have activated mast cells in the bladder I didn't know about VA no one said anything. I went through menopause 10 years ago I am 57 nearly. I Knew I was shrivelled but had no pain very occasionally sore used a little sudercreme.
I realised in Feb Most of my pain was in my clitoris I thought I had vulvadynia and went to see a gynae she said severe atrophy she prescribed Ovestin and said to introduce slowly on clit and as I became less sore use everywhere. I have had good success with the clit and no longer major source of pain. Pain has moved to rest of area mostly urethra and vagina bad prickles and burning
I have been weeing every 1 to 2 hours round the clock for the last 5 months and my mental health has been deterorating. GP decided to take me off Pregablin and but me on Sertraline it has been a 4 week taper and the worse time in my life constant anxiety and dark dark thoughts still persisting family have taken holiday to look after me. I hang in with meditation cd's. The Pregablin has left me with pins and needles in my feet GP says it should go.
I can not sit at all only lie down on my back and walking is difficult. I find it difficult to see a future. In September I was fit and active rode my horses. I have lost 2 and a half stone. I restrict my diet because I think I have IC and this has become a bit OCD I eat the same foods each day.
I have been trying to introduce the Ovestin internally it may be something else but it seems to irritate my urethra and I have been weeing every half hour or just sitting on the toilet the burning is unreal. Bladder pain too which I don't usually have badly.
Sorry for such a sad tale and along one just needed to open up and see if there was some advice and hope.
So,sorry x
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Welcome Jbee and sorry that you are feeling so low. Some of the ladies will be along shortly with big hugs and hopefully good advice but as it is the weekend please be patient.
I had constant UTI's last year. Eventually after several tests including a cystoscopy to rule out anything sinister my urine was tested in more depth and a hard to treat bacteria was found. This was treated with a strong antibiotic (can't remember the name) and I also started on a two week load of Vagifem and once I finished the two week load I went on to three times a week. You really do need to do the two week load as it begins the work of calming everything down. Not at first but it does begin to happen which is why it states a two week load. My symptoms have really calmed down with this regime. I am wondering if you were it doing the two week load and that if you were your G.P let you give up too early. Just a thought.
As I said I am sure other ladies will be along soon with advice. Meanwhile you are not alone
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Big hugs xxxx
Have you thought of maybe vagifem daily for life or ovestin plus vagifem ?
Also are you on hrt ?
I really feel for you for everything you are going through xx
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Hello Jbee and welcome to the forum.
I am sorry to read that you are suffering so much. Unfortunately I am not able to advise you but I'm sure more ladies will be along shortly. I did however want to add my hugs to Annie's and also agree with Herdwick that you are not alone.
Hang in there and take care.
K.
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Hi Jbee
:welcomemm:
Absolutely you are not alone once you have joined this forum. I agree with what's been said about your VA - you probably need to massively increase the dose you are using as Annie suggests. Please read Maryjane's posts and maybe she will be along as she is the absolute expert on VA - also Dancinggirl and ancient runner.
Have you thought about HRT? I know it's a long time since menopause but you could still start and this could help with yo r mood enormously. Did you suffer from such severe low mood, anxiety and depression before menopause, or maybe cyclically when you had your menstrual cycle - or is it mainly since menopause and not due to particular life events? Oestrogen is such an important hormone for mood and some women suffer particularly when it is deficient. The advantage of taking HRT instead of the ADs is that you would be getting oestrogen into your system which would help with the vagnal atrophy in addtion to the local oestrogen. In between times there are vaginal moisturisers that you can use but I am not an expert on these and hopefully (maybe after the weekend when it tends to be quieter on here) one of them will be along to help soon.
Hang in there Jbee - it will get better - there are treatments available and you have taken the first step in getting even more help and support from like-minded women.
Hurdity x :bighug:
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I found the Ovestin burned when I first used it and made me want to wee all the time, but once I'd been on it for a couple of weeks, it eased. So it might be worth trying to apply further up every day and see if it is better after 2 weeks. Mine was so bad it was hurting to walk or sit by the time I was diagnosed, and it took me days of treating outside area before I could even think about going further in. But I did get there eventually.
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Hi and welcome MM Jbee
You are not alone with this. Urogenital atrophy can be truly ghastly and sadly not recognised by many doctors - so appropriate treatment is not always given.
To keep things under control these are my strategies:
Drink lots of water.
Avoid Caffiene, fruit juices and alcohol.
Take showers not baths and never use anything scented to wash your ‘lady bits'.
I use Vagifem 2-3 times a week.
I use vaginal moisturiser every day - SYLK or the YES products are the best - these moisturisers must not be used at the same time as local oestrogen treatments as it may block absorbtion, so if you use the oestrogen at night, use the moisturisers in the morning.
Clean really well after opening your bowels.
When the urethra starts to burn, I then have half a teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda in a glass of water 2-3 times a day for 2-4 days.
Ovestin did make my urethra burn - it's probably the fillers in the cream that does this so I prefer Vagifem.
Try taking a Nytol at night for a few nights - the over the counter one with an antihistamine - as this can calm the bladder reducing the need to pee so often. Nytol will also give you a better nights sleep and I expect you are really needing this right now.
I am sure you cannot see your life getting back to normal right now - I've been there so I know - things will get better but it will involve some simple lifestyle changes.
Keep us posted. DG x
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Hi 😊 so sorry you are feeling so incredibly low , been there with VA .
I assume you are seeing Prof Malone Lee ?
Here are 3 pieces about me and my VA ( I am in the need to start talking about this camp publicly ) and the experts I have spoken to of which are many now , it's almoat so common as seen to be normal , but is so hush hush and a huge shock when it happens.
https://menopausematters.co.uk/pdf/magazines/issue48.pdf
https://menopausedoctor.co.uk/news/vaginal-dryness-last-menopause-taboo/
http://www.jodivine.com/articles/womens-sexual-health/living-with-vaginal-atrophy
I have been asked to write three more but have writers VA block. I have also been on TV on a menopause programme , and admin a secret FB page for VA of which there are quite a few Prof patients.
I wrote the piece for this site early last year , and things are much improved I'm not cured never will be as VA is for life and needs constant care .
Hang in there and take one step at a time. 😊
Menopause itself can cause mental havoc , throw in VA and it's wnough to take you to the very edge of which I have been.
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Thank you so much for your advice and good wishes it is so wonderful that you are there. Xxx
I am using the ovestine internally and will persevere and hope the irritation settles. I have brought the yes moisturiser and have applied to outside areas that are less sore it felt cool not really burnt so hoping it will be ok. So Ovestin everywhere at night yes on outside in morning. Skin on inside of labia looks sore. I think I will keep this up for some time. I feel all the time like I imagine a prolapse feels sort of pressure pain downwards when standing I have been assured I don't but can anyone relate to this? The pressure gets worse when I need a wee all in the urethra vagina area does this sound like VA?
I would happily go on HRT systemically and will ask the doctor tomorrow. Perhaps as I am only a short way into taking the Sertraline I need to persevere because coming off one dug on to another has definitely caused the shocking low and anxiety. On Sertraline things get worse before better its a white knuckle ride. Doctor has given me amytripline to help with sleep pain.
I have had anxiety on and off but nothing like this I have never been ill like this
The amytripline and Sertraline are drying so it would be much better to be just on HRT I just have to take it slowly as I am very fragile - spent most of last night doing deep breathing with wave after wave of adrenaline and anxiety its rediculous seems to have a mind of its own.
Mary Jane I am under the professor but am a little unsure whether I have just VA or an embedded infection or both now. Symptoms started whith what felt like a typical UTI but no bacteria found the sample was very dilute and as we know the testing is not good. white bllod cell count was 150 ish so they gave 3 days of AB's it went down to 3 again very dilute sample and professor found 4 in December but as you know he feels this is significant. Inflammation was found in the trizone. Then there is the whole pelvic floor thing. Any thoughts?
The anxiety is linked to pain and because I'm not really sure what is going on and because I am sorely needed to look after my family and I am not able. I hope to start some counselling CBT soon. I have told my younger sisters about this and told them to get on local HRT. I have ordered acti gel too. I am so grateful for your posts thank you again.
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What support are you getting for your mental health? Maybe send an e-mail to your local MIND Group. They were very helpful when I was ill in 2015. Samaritans are also on the phone 24/7.
VA needs constant treatment initially until it settles. Years ago the dose of Vagifemwas 25, now it's 10. I have had good success with Ovestin. 2 weeks 'loading' and then as necessary. It's OK for me at every 3rd and every 5/6th night. It's for Life.
Some ladies find that they need Sylc or similar on the outer vaginal areas. Paractamol can ease the feeling of needing to pee. 4 me it was all day initially, I would sit on the loo with a cuppa in one hand and a glass of ice cold diluted Barley Water in the other. It was the only way I could get relief from the intensity of needing to pee.
Let us know how you get on!
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Hi thank you for your reply. Did you have pain with the feeling of needing a pee like you might with a uti? I am going to use the Ovestin as neede after the loading. Did you use it on the outside too? Thanks
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The spincter really nipped as the urine flow lessened! Enough to make me go 'oh!'. Pain relief helps a lot. VA treatment is for Life. Nope. Not on the outside which is where Slyc or similar really helps.
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Hi Jbee,
Just sending you a big hug 🤗 I hope you get this under control.
HRT has made a massive difference to my anxiety, it might be worth a try.
Good luck xx
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Thank you Helen I never really thought about menopause I had my last child at 40 and I think I had my last period about 46 with only a few night sweats and mood swings -I thought it was all over but looking at the symptoms you can get I realise my estrogen must have crashed over the past few months. Thank goodness for this forum community. I didn't realise mental health was linked to hormones or that you could feel so awful.
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:bighug: Jbee! HORMONES >:(
Some ladies find that keeping a mood/food/symptom diary useful.
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Jbee you're certainly not alone, I went from going to the gym 4 times a week doing classes and swimming having a great time to 10 months sitting on the sofa crying and not knowing why. Just such an awful feeling, empty, joyless and expecting the worst to happen in each and every situation.
I have a lovely husband, great kids and family but nothing they could do or say helped me. It wasn't until I was crying in the doctors surgery because John Legend was on the radio that my lovely GP said “you need some HRT†something i thought I would never try. It's not perfect but it lifted the dark moods and desperation pretty quickly and got me on a more even keel.
This forum helped me see that everything I was feeling others had felt before. I honestly had days when I thought I was going mad. No one prepares you for the horror of the menopause, I honestly thought I'd get a bit hot, maybe throw a few plates, my periods would stop and that would be it, normal again 🙄
Fingers crossed for you xx
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You are not alone. I too have severe anxiety. Mainly due to death of a child in 1989. I have severe atrophy and hysterectomy and prolapse surgery have not helped. Then just before Xmas had an acute bout of diverticulitis ( bowel infection) . That was just unlucky because it I a m fit and eat well. Vagifem really helps if you persevere with it. Makes you much more comfortable. Please don't feel that you won't get on top of all of this. Stay on the forum and let people help. It really is great.
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Thank you for your kind words this is keeping me going. I think the amytripline worked and I slept last night which offers some relief. The mornings are the worse. I haven't cried much I just feel fear and numb with repeated thoughts. I feel I don't want to carry on in a life with constant pain that I am a burden to my family. Without a huge effort I would stay in bed all day. Getting up washing my hair eating showering etc are all a huge effort. I am going to have to go out and walk in the garden even though it is painful because I am so stiff with lying down - less painful with hot water bottle or ice pack. I don't really recognise my self anymore I am so thin and weak. I was really bonny always trying to loose a few pounds, with masses of energy despite not sleeping well loads of enthusiasm for life. I will just keep going baby steps set small goals. I am blessed with a wonderful understanding husband and children and extended family. At the doctors this morning husband coming with me I will test the waters about hrt .
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I can empathise with you Jbee, anxiety was my worst meno symptom, I felt I was going crazy, total irrational thoughts, feelings of paranoia that people didn't like me and were talking about me, feeling detached from reality, feeling like life wasn't worth living, that I was just an inconvenience to those that love me... it's just horrible.
But HRT changed all that, and very quickly too, within a week I felt a little positiveness return, although took longer to feel I had more good days than bad.....but I remember crying at feeling better and how I had allowed my fears of HRT to prevent me from feeling better, and how I had denied myself years of feeling better....I somehow felt a failure for succumbing to HRT.....and still struggle in my head with using it, even though it has helped me so much.
I too have severe VA, and bladder/urgency issues, but not UTI thank goodness, I feel for you on that one.
I had a course of Mona Lisa laser treatment, one treatment every 4 weeks, I needed 4 in total, and it took time even after that to resume some manageable comfort... bladder/urgency, still have good and bad days, I take vesicare to ‘help' but not sure it does much, apart from gives me a dry.
throat! ...my godsend has been the estring for vaginal oestrogen, and I use emu oil morning and night to external area, and feel so much better.
HRT should be the go to treatment for anxiety and depression in menopausal women.
Hope this helps Jbee, and that you soon feel a little better every day xx :bighug:
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Thank you for your reply everyone has been so supportive. I think I have always been a bit of a worrier but this is just crazy like you say.
I went to the doctors to ask about systemic hrt and she said it wouldn't be her last choice as I am 10 year post menopause roughly and 57 next month. She said I would only be able to have it for a short time and that the risk of breast cancer would out way the benefits. She has upped my amytripline to 20mg and wants to put my AD's up next time as they are working at a sub clinical level she thinks. I don't want to do that I would rather learn a whole lot of mindfulness skills and pay for counselling. All the talk of breast cancer put the wind up hubby so he's not keen. The speed at which things have changed for me have made me want to live for today I want quality of life now! You never know what's round the corner.
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Jbee - I think that you need to consider upping the anti-depressant for 6-9 months to lift your mood. It will help with those symptoms, some ladies find that they require both HRT and ADs and anti-anxiety medication. Helps see the wood for the trees! You should NOT have to pay for counselling though the NHS waiting lists are appalling. Relaxation therapy helped me for a while. As did relaxation tapes, though finding time to listen was difficult. I would sit down with a tape recorder; remember those ::) ; and my little :cat88: would jump onto my lap, we would sleep for hours.
Why do you think that mindfulness will help with symptoms are physical. It ain't called 'the change' for nowt >:(.
What talk of breast cancer, where from? This really isn't up to your husband, if he is concerned he perhaps should look at recent Research! Quality of Life is important . Years ago it was thought that breast disease was triggered by HRT but that flawed research has been discounted. Do have a look at the 'treatment' section here.
Although 'the change' is natural, symptoms can be abrupt and life changing. Browse round, ask away.
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Jbee, have you considered going to a menopause clinic privately, I did, on the advice of my GP it was the best money I've spent and got a 45 min (but actually lasted 55) and was listened to and given all the relevant info about the positives and negatives. I came away feeling better that someone had listened and acknowledged that my symptoms were down to the lack of hormones.
She wrote to my GP with details of
What I should have and a follow up after 3 months.
My husband came and was able to ask lots of questions.
Quality of life is so important xx
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:thankyou: helenmelon
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Thank you both for your replies. Yes I would consider going privately not sure my GP would refer me but I can try and self refer if not. Will need to investigate the options.
I do the mindfulness with guided meditations and visualisations it takes practise but I am getting better at weathering the anxiety adrenaline surges that come out of nowhere. It reminds me of the deep breathing through a contraction in child birth, it doesn't change what is happening physically but sort of calms and gives you some control.
I take on what you are saying about the anti depressant CLKD you are right I cannot see the wood for the trees.
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Little steps. The body doesn't get where it is suddenly so it has to adjust to anything chemical put into it. Up-take etc..
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Jbee, let us know how you get on. We're all rooting for you to get the help you need and get better xx