Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Optimist on March 06, 2018, 07:11:10 PM
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Hi lovely ladies,
I've had the Mirena for 7 weeks now following various trials of different hrts (progesterone doesn't like me!). I've been using oestrogel at the same time, started on 2 pumps went up to 3 then 4 to counteract elephant peeing and insomnia. Back at 3 now as low mood irritability on 4. I feel generally less irritable on 2 pumps but side effects kick in. Have had constant daily spotting/bleeding especially after sex (sorry for details). Am going to ask GP for bloods to see if absorbing oestrogel.
Does constant spotting mean too high or too low oestrogen levels is anyone aware? Should I go back to the patches and trial or ask for tablets? I'm at a loss. Hair skin and nails were generally better on tablets (femoston 1/5) but couldn't tolerate the progesterone after a while.
Any ideas ladies as speaking to GP tomorrow.
Many thanks
Optimist x
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I had 4.5 months of daily spotting after I had my Mirena fitted, I started with two pumps of Estrogel but upped it to three after the first month.
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My GP said it can take six months for spotting to settle, so if you are otherwise happy with it I would give it longer.
Are you up to date with your smears?
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Hi tinkerbell, that's a bit reassuring. I'm on 3 currently but still struggling a bit with flat mood & irritability. I'll ask for bloods just to check what my levels are.
Yes smears up to date and I had some silver sulphate treatment to my cervix approx 4-5 months ago for spotting/bleeding after sex. That stopped the spotting more or less straight away. Cervical erosion I think she said. Wonder if it may have aggravated it again after Mirena insertion. Thanks for reply. X
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Spoke to gp via phone, she said spotting completely normal on Mirena for first 3-6 months and not to worry.
Refused blood tests as said didn't think they'd tell me anything! When I said I wanted to see what my oestrogen levels were she just said what makes you think they're low, so I described some symptoms and she said to just persevere or change back to patches.
So I said I'd persevere for bit longer on gel. Missed a dose of oestrogel 2 nights ago and felt a bit crappy the next day so maybe its slowly getting into my system and working. Currently 2-2.5 pumps morning 1 pump at night.
Running and HIIT classes at least 4-5x weekly which is keeping middle flab and back fat attack reduced. Intense dislike for other half seems to be subsiding 😊 and mood generally starting to feel okay, so maybe things are starting to look up! Fingers crossed 🤞🏼.
Won't count my chickens too soon 😉 x
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Glad you are feeling better and are noticing positive effects. I had a mirena fitted just over a year ago and it was almost a year before the regular spotting ceased. It was preferable to the previous flooding so persevered and am glad that I did.
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Thanks stephjkm, few people I've talked to have said 3 mths, 4.5mths, 6 mths...yours beat those hands down. Well done to you for persevering, it must've been frustrating at the time and I'm happy for you it's all settled now x
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I have had my Mirena and oestrogel regime for two years, I had spotting off and on for almost 6 months, all fine now, occasional light spot for a day or two that's all.
I have upped my oestrogel to 4 pumps now, like you I do lots of exercise, I teach dance, and dance fitness, and from what i've read, exercise can use up oestrogen, so I have found I feel better on the increased dose.
Hope this helps 😊
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Optimist, I would definitely keep going with Oestrogel because it is far easier to attain higher levels of oestrogen with it which you need with a Mirena coil to stop the progesterone becoming too dominant. That is what happened to me with the patches and you definitely don't want to go there!
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Re the Mirena and length of time of spotting - it will partly depend on where you are in menopause so that your periods, bleeding and spotting will continue for much longer if you are peri-menopausal when you start. However if you are post-menopausal - this is when the bleeding or spotting is meant to be investigated if it continues after approx 6 months. Gosh you women are very fit! Wow 4-5x weekly Optimist!!! Teaching dance and dance fitness Ljp !!! You need to be on the ball....
Hurdity x
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Morning ladies, having a bad sleep night tonight and blaming work and other rather than hrt/menopause!
Thanks for replies all, feeling mostly better and persevering with oestrogel.
Does anyone recall a thread regarding taking the oestrogel pump pack in hand luggage? I'm off to France for a few days and taking hand luggage only. Do I need a gp certificate or prescription? Pharmacist said no but the thought of getting stopped taking it fills me with dread! EasyJet site not much use!! Can't find the thread wondering if I imagined it in my sleep deprived fog brain 🤯😁 x
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Good morning optimist it'll be fine I asked this question previously,it's under 100 g the allowed sizes it's actually 80 so just put it in a clear bag and show it at check in as usual.have a lovely trip xx
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Morning ladies, having a bad sleep night tonight and blaming work and other rather than hrt/menopause!
Thanks for replies all, feeling mostly better and persevering with oestrogel.
Does anyone recall a thread regarding taking the oestrogel pump pack in hand luggage? I'm off to France for a few days and taking hand luggage only. Do I need a gp certificate or prescription? Pharmacist said no but the thought of getting stopped taking it fills me with dread! EasyJet site not much use!! Can't find the thread wondering if I imagined it in my sleep deprived fog brain 🤯😁 x
That was me. I started the thread as the pump is 80mg and there is no way of knowing if that is less than 100mls. I never got a definitive answer from the pharmacist or airline.
Good luck, please report back and have a good time in Paris 😁
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Many thanks all, very reassuring. Hoping for a good nights sleep tonight as it has been getting much better. Have sorted a few things at work so hoping should be better. I'm very lucky as I have a lovely friend who has an apartment in France and let's me go there a few times a year. I love it there & very much looking forward to the break x
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Mary G can I ask what happened with you when the progesterone became too dominant?
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Ljp, the problem was my oestrogen levels were rock bottom and progesterone in the coil was too dominant in my system and caused vaginal irritation, constant urination, over thinning of the womb lining and silent migraines. If I had managed to attain high oestrogen levels, I doubt I would have had these problems.
Although the progesterone in the Mirena is mainly confined to the womb, enough of it gets into your overall system to cause problems if you don't counter it with oestrogen.
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Hi Optimist
I've had a coil for 15 months and it took a year before the spotting stopped. However, I also had trouble with bleeding on continuous and sequential HRT, so if you've only started bleeding/spotting since the coil was fitted (and you were OK on your conti HRT) and it's only been 7 weeks, then it's likely it's the coil settling down. GP told me it was normal up until 6 months, but I know how annoying this can be, especially if you've got a trip away planned. Fingers crossed all goes well for you and you have a lovely relaxing time.
Dolly x
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Mary G, tried to pm you as don't want to ambush this pot, but can't click on send message, doesn't seem to be working.
I can't help but wonder if I have had similar issues, I used ‘serenity' natural progesterone cream for at least 4 or 5 years before menopause, it was during peri meno that I started needing to pee more often and urgently, didn't know about oestrogen connection at that time.
Eventually spoke to gp, she recommended vesicare, I tried it for a while, but didn't want to take medication, so carried on without it, then about a year later I went back to gp and she suggested estriole cream, that did help bladder/urgency, but then six mo this later I had a light bleed, I was 14 months post meno by that time.
I was referred for hysteroscopy.... when I went fir appointment, the gynae said my cervix was closed, and that in her words I was ‘too young' for this, I'm guessing due to lack of oestrogen, any way uterine lining was thin, only 4mm, but she suggested Mirena coil so I could use oestrogen locally and systemically without any worry of uterine lining building up.
It was all quite a shock to be honest, and when I left the hospital with the coil, the estring too, but no systemic oestrogen, the first thing I did was contact my gp to ask for oestrogel... I started using it within a week, but only one pump as I was terrified of using HRT
I stayed on one pump and estring for the six months , then upped to two pumps as I wanted to try without estring....again due to fear of using too much oestrogen.
I stopped using estring in the September (9 months after the start of my coil/estring/oestrogel HRT regime)
All seemed ok, then in the March, while on holiday in the Lake District, I had what I though was a bad thrash attack, treated it with canesten, still sore and burning etc, treated it again with canesten, minor improvement, then put two and two together and rememberecid not used local oestrogen since September, so in my return from holiday I contacted gp and got estring...been using ever since, but the VA was bad, and so in September I started a course of Mona Lisa treatment....I had 4 sessions, the last one was December, I am a lot more comfortable, but it took a long time to settle, I was still sore and irritated 6 weeks after last treatment, and even now I have days when I'm aware of things down there.
I tried as an experiment, upping oestrogel to 4 pumps for a mo th, and things were much better, but I felt scared of using 4 pumps so decreased to three, and been a bit sore again, emu oil is helping, and upped to 4 pumps again fir last few days, I do think that I'm better in 4...I just worry myself and dread to think how I will cope if I have to stop using HRT in years to come, as VA is unbearable.
Apologies for long post and ambushing optimists post, I just feel maybe I had progesterone dominance and not used enough oestrogen to counterbalance it 😟
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Ljp, it sounds like you had a similar problem to me when you had the Mirena coil without enough oestrogen. Don't fear going to 4 pumps of gel if it improves the VA, you don't have to worry about taking too much because you have a Mirena coil so if your womb lining builds up, it will shed automatically.
If you feel good on 4 pumps of Oestrogel then stick with it. Don't worry about having to give up on HRT in the future, there is no time limit so you can take it indefinitely.
I've said it on here before, a Mirena coil without adequate oestrogen is bad news and women should be aware of it. Not only did I have the VA type problems I mentioned before, I didn't get any symptom relief either. The good news is that it is easy to attain high levels of oestrogen with Oestrogel which why I would always recommend it. I wish I had tried that combination myself but by the time I found out about Oestrogel my coil had been removed. Because of my severe progesterone intolerance, I would not want to risk it now.
Stick with a system that works for you and don't worry!
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Hi dolly, I was fine on conti and sequi didn't bleed on either (bit of spotting on conti at the start for few weeks) it was the other side effects I couldn't tolerate.
It is getting lighter each week so I'm hoping will cease altogether soon.
I do wonder if I'm still peri though as Hurdity mentioned, as had some flashes of anger this week and I've disliked everyone, even my cats and my son & struggling with relationship with OH but no longer know if that's hormones or just “usâ€!!! and have been tired too and still don't sleep great unless using magnesium. I'm using 3/4 pumps of oestrogel and as Mary G says Ljp that is the beauty of oestrogel as you can change your dose accordingly. I've also been on oxybutinyn for years now as my urine urgency, volume and increase, started likely around the same time as I went into peri however at the time I didn't realise that was a symptom of peri! I would like to eventually try and come off the oxybutinyn but due to what I think is progesterone intolerance, I'm still fighting to get a balance on the oestrogel and I use vagifem also sometime every other day dependant on symptoms. This definitely helps and I'm realkg hoping I'm getting there with the Mirena/oestrogel combi. Please don't worry re “hijacking†this post Ljp, that's what we're all here for and it's really interesting to get others perspectives about how they've managed with similar difficulties. I wouldn't worry about an age limit to using hrt either. Louise Newsom who is another meno specialist who I follow on Twitter posted x pic of her 80 year old mother who had the skin and look of a 40/50 year old and she's still in hrt (although oestro only as she had s hysterectomy). She looks amazing and Louise said she's still got loads of energy!! It's the gps with little knowledge we'll be fighting in this one I'm afraid.
Xx