Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => New Members => Topic started by: Juliet on March 01, 2018, 02:38:37 PM
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So pleased to have found this website.
I am 47 and I have had erratic periods for around 3 years (3 month gap and then a couple really close together). My last period was end of November (I think). I have been experiencing hot flushes for nearly a year. I have experienced depression in both my pregnancies (firs trimester) and also some mild depression after the birth of my youngest (now 22). I have also always suffered from PMT, with low mood a few days before my period and the most horrendous period pains that I used to have to take morphine for, until I began to take agnus castus (which literally changed my life).
For the last 18 months to 2 years I have found my mood progressively worsening (I put it down to the stress of finishing a doctorate), but it has not lifted and in the last few months I have really struggled to find joy in anything at all - despite a fantastic new career as a psychologist. More recently I have found myself feeling very anxious and unable to concentrate as if I am waiting for something terrible to happen. I now cry at the drop of a hat and my husband and I have rowed so much we have even discussed separating.
So far I have tried red clover (alongside the agnus castus) and it has helped reduce intensity and frequency of flushes. I also run and doing HITT, as well as regularly attend yoga classes and meditate. But right now, I am struggling to motivate myself to do anything and each morning it is a major struggle to get out of bed. I am losing my self-confidence and finding it so hard to do my job (which I love). I just want to feel better and enjoy life again.
My question is what HRT should I ask for (I have a GP appointment in 10 days time) and how much will it help with the low mood? I am also petrified of having to deal with the period pains again and previous hormone based treatments just made them worse. For example, I had the Mirena coil fitted before I discovered my miracle (agnus castus) but after 72 hours of excruciating cramps (like never-ending labour) and no support from the clinic who recommended and fitted it, I ended begging the doctor in A&E to remove it. I was sterilised years ago to avoid having to use hormone based contraception, so as you can tell I have little faith or trust in specialists. The thought of having to take progesterone makes me very panicky as I am pretty sure I am intolerant.
All advice would be greatly appreciated because life right now is really, really pants :'( Thanks :)
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:welcomemm: I'm sure someone with HRT knowledge will be along. Browse round. Make notes. Some ladies find keeping a mood/food/symptom diary useful.
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Hi Juliet you've made your first positive move by coming on here,just be patient and the lovely ladies with great knowledge and experience will come along and help you,it will get better xx
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Thanks for the welcome :)
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Hi Juliet and welcome to MM
Read up all the factual stuff on this site to get clued up and look at the TREATMENTS options - then get back to us with questions.
Progesterone can be an issue for many women but Utrogestan may be worth trying - but use it vaginally instead of orally ( though this is off license here in the UK, it is used this way in most other countries)
DG x
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Hi Juliet
:welcomemm: from me too.
Your low mood, pms and PND could have been down to decrease in or low oestrogen, and not necessarily progesterone intolerance, so hopefully if you take HRT this (oestrogen) will help your mood enormously. Mood swings are so common during peri-menopause - I cried buckets, and like you at the drop of a hat I would well up even if by myself and driving along thinking about something or a difficult situation! I had no idea I was leading up to peri-menopause and these symptoms were due to it! Here is an article about perimenopause https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/magazine/articles-mainly.php#perils whoich you might find helpful.
In your situation something like one of the the new birth control pills QLAIRA or ZOELY might help as they have 2 or 4 tablet free days so you don't get the extreme oestrogen dip. They do contain synthetic progestogens although the one in QLAIRA is one of the more modren ones ( with maybe fewer side effects?).
Other than that a very high dose of oestrogen can suppress your cycle and can be used to treat reproductive depression (see John Studd's website and articles http://www.studd.co.uk/reproductivedepression.php - just one example but look at all the tabs left and right). For this you would either have gel or a patch as the oestrogen - both transdermal). Estradot are the best type of patch as they are very small) and you would take progesterone (Utrogestan) for 10-12 days per month. You would get a bleed though but hopefully if your cycle was suppressed it wouldn't be as bad as your normal periods. I presume your womb lining has been checked for things like fibroids, endometriosis etc which could have caused the heavy bleeding and cramps? Is it possilbe to get areferral to a menopause specialist if your doc is unable to help? Hopefully though s/he will be knowledgeable and sympathetic :)
Do you know why the Mirena gave you such cramps? This would normally be one treatment suggested for heavy bleeding in peri-menopausal women, and then you could add in as much oestrogen as you liked, until you felt well.
Hope this helps :)
Hurdity x
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I started HRT after 18months of misery, and failing to find any herbal remedy that really helped.
In hindsight, I wish I had started it sooner ...
Along with unbearable hot flushes and night sweats, insomnia, I developed awful anxiety, low mood, and simply lost confidence in myself.
I strongly suggest you give HRT a try.
I was referred to a Menopause clinic in Sheffield, and found the consultant to be excellent, but it was an 8 week wait. GP's have a 'general knowledge' of course, but there is nothing like seeing an expert in the field for the most up to date options ....
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Thank you for such a thorough response Hurdity. I hope you are right that HRT may help. I so recognise your description of welling up when driving - this has been happening pretty much every time I am in the car in recent months. More often than not I think about my sister (who died 10 years ago) and the feeling of grief feels raw like it did in the early months, which is very distressing. You are right in that I am jumping the gun in terms of assuming I am progesterone intolerant, I guess I assume this because of PMS. Thank you for the suggestions about possible treatments as well as links to info.
Yes I did go through a lot of investigations including scans for fibroids and cysts when I was trying to find a way to manage cyclical pain - nothing unusual was found. I never have had heavy bleeding just unbearable cramps (these were completely unrelated to blood flow and sometimes were more severe towards the end of my period). I think my reaction to the Mirena is not uncommon, but I felt totally unsupported and once i had it removed the clinic were not interested in me and told me off for wasting money and not giving it a proper go (I cannot convey just how desperate I was after 3 days of pain so savage that morphine tablets had no effect). This made me lose complete faith in them being able to help me, hence why i have managed period related stuff through researching and using herbal preparations.
I will keep an open mind when I meet with the GP and bear in mind your suggestions - I have asked to see a doctor who specialises in menopause, not sure how i check if this doctor is up to date in the latest research however. I am also considering seeing a specialist through a private clinic if the GP is not helpful. Recommendations of Specialists in the East Midlands would be gratefully received ( Luton area or Bedfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Cambridgeshire).
Thank you for all the support so far. Today I am feeling particularly anxious and low and it is just so wearing and so not like me. I hate the fact that I am constantly trying to snap out of it and be normal!
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Hi Juliet, welcome to the page. I am currently 22 and on Premarin 1.25mg. At first I refused to take them because I was having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that I was menopausal so young, now after taking them properly I'm starting to see the benefits. I still have really rough days where I feel like crap and wonder why my partner is still with me but I'm better than before. My memory got so bad and I couldn't remember what I had done on a day to day basis, the HRT has really helped me, I feel on top of my game again. Before I was prescribed Premarin I was on patches which I didn't like as they left a big sticky mark on the leg and I was also precribed another estrogen which gave me migraines. Every one is different I suppose.
I know it's easier said than done but I always find when I force myself to act all normal and get on with normal things I end up beating myself up, we all try too hard to be okay all the time. You sound like you have a lot on your plate at the minute with your studies etc, how you have the time to excercise and meditate I do not know but well done!!
Just remember you have this forum for support, I even find it helpful just to read other people's comments just so I can feel as though I relate, I know that it is always there if I need it.
LC x
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Hi SS1995 - sorry to hear about being menopausal so young - I presume you are also taking a progestogen or have a Mirena coil fitted, to protect the womb lining?
Juliet - there are specialists listed on the main MM website (very top tabs pale blue writing) - you just click on your area and they are listed - some are available on NHS :). Some of the info is out of date though. Otherwise you could google and then post a new query asking members to pm you if they know about a particular specialist? You shouldn't need to get the necessary treatment from a private clinic though, but best research all the possibilities first. Some GP parctices have a website with the qualifications of the docs listed so you can see if they have the gynae one - DRCOG - which would be a start and an indication of their interest!
Let us know how you get on.
Hurdity x
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Thank you to everyone who has responded on this thread with advice and support. It really does help to know other women understand. I will let you know how the visit to the GP goes. Feeling hopeful that things will improve :)
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Hurdity - it's horrible but it's just one of those things and Im still adjusting to getting on with it. At first I was prescribed progesterone but found that I didn't need it as my period comes itself with just the estrogen. Having a coil fitted freaks me out, I don't think I could do it.
Juliet - I look forward to hearing about your GP appointment and hope all goes well.
X
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Off to the Docs this morning and feel more prepared thanks to this forum. I have listed my symptoms and written out some questions to ask about HRT such as combined or separate, delivery method pros and cons, my worries about triggering the horrendous period pains, how will I be monitored, what side effects might I experience, how long before I would expect to see a difference...
I will come back later and let you know how it goes :)
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Yes do let us know how you got on Juliet - I hope you had a positive appointment with beneficial results! :)
Hurdity x
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It has been awhile, but I have been making a video everyday of how I have been feeling since starting HRT. I will post a link to videos when I have completed the week 2 one.
So, asked to see a GP with experience in menopause, but felt very much like she only knew the basics and was in a hurry to get me out of the door. She was happy to prescribe HRT, but she did not want to discuss routes or types and told me that there are very few choices available and most women take tablets. I felt it was best if I went with her suggestion initially as she had already asked me if I was medically trained in that tone of voice that Docs use when they feel threatened (I am an ex-nurse and also had done lots of research thanks to this site) and to be fair I don't know whether I will be sensitive to the synthetic progesterone. Consequently, I have just taken my last oestrogen only tablet and taken one oestrogen/progesterone one. Feeling really spaced out (5 hours later) but not sure if this is a psychological effect. Worried about the next 12 days and the 'period' but hoping the period pains will not be too bad.
In terms of my mood, feeling so much better since around day 12 and anxiety is much lower, and that constant inner voice saying what's the point of anything has quietened. Have experienced some mild flushes, which had stopped after I took red clover. Not sure if this means ultimately I will need the 2mg dose, but I need to give this three months.
Can't help thinking that long term I would prefer not to have to bother with periods or progesterone - so may ask for referral to discuss mirena or even hysterectomy, but for now things are so much better and I am getting my life back :)
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Thanks for the update Juliet and glad you are seeing glimmers of hope on the horizon! :) Remember most women who take HRT do so quite happily and don't come near a forum like this so you may well be perfectly OK on the synthetic progestogen, and in any case there are bound to be a few changes just as with normal menstrual cycles. The main point is to feel better overall when taking HRT than you did before and keeping a video diary is brilliant because you can see how far you've come - or if you are feeling down - you can compare to what you said weeks or months ago.
Hurdity x
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Feel like I have gone backwards and not sure if it is because I have started the progesterone element of the Elleste Duet (green tablets) - now taken 5. Anxiety is really bad on waking with lots of thoughts about how terrible everything in my life is (when it really isn't) - going over all the ways my life is rubbish because of poor choices I have made. Also feel exhausted and like I need to go back to sleep.
Going for a run helped yesterday with the physical feelings, but this morning I tried 30 mins meditation and now have a lot of work to get through so a run is not on the cards.
Not sure what to do and hoping for advice. Is this anxiety normal when starting HRT and should I wait and see if it settles ? Things were feeling so much better last week and I thought I was finding a way out :(
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Hey Juliet, sorry I haven't checked the forum in ages!
I remember when I first started on HRT I really really struggled because I'm not a person who even takes painkillers. So for me being on HRT took control from me and it took me until the last few months to come to terms with it and start taking my tablets consistently.
When I was having a really hard time at the start I did go to the doctors three times about anxiety and depression and I was told “that it would all get better in timeâ€. It's not great to be honest. Doctors understanding of it is not great. I think if you're not happy with the type of HRT you've been prescribed just try different ones until you are. I wasn't happy with the first three times I was prescribed medication.
I hope what you can take from this is that you are not alone in all this😊😊
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Hi Juliet
When I started taking hrt tablets last year, it was exactly as you describe...felt really good on the oestrogen then awful on the progesterone part. I'm now on a Climara 50 patch (change once weekly) and 1.25mg noresthisterone for 12 - 14 days of my cycle...so much better. The anxiety wouldn't quite go though, so I also take 10mg of paroxetine in the morning, which has really helped too. Good luck with it all xx
I well understand the grief you feel, and the sadness over life choices - it's awful, like all the joy is gone, only to be replace with sadness and anxiety. Rest assured it's hormonal (well most of it is, these are real things after all) and with good management you will regain your sense of equilibrium. But it will take time, and in the meantime you have mm for support too xx
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thank you for hearing me :) helps so much.
Started on Femoston 2/10 as alongside the anxiety I was getting with Elleste I was also getting some flushes. Not sure if that was the right move as my email from Dr Currie came through on Sunday and recommended Femoston 1/10.
I think the important thing is that I try this for the 3 full months before considering changing again as I think anxiety is making me question everything including the HRT treatment. Just so impatient to feel 'normal' again and not used to feel like I am not in control of myself.
xxx
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Hi - I was told to change either the amount of oestrogen, or the type of progestogen, rather than both together so that you know what is working. You have changed both ;D
I started on Elleste (I think they all do it because it is cheap) and didn't like it because it made my aches more painful, and it gave me a painful bleed of sticky dark stuff. :( Norithisterone is a very effective progestogen ::)
So I went on Femoston 1/10 and then 2/10 and have been ok ever since. I think it is a pretty good choice and hope it works out for you as well.
I still wake up with an 'oh bugger' feeling, but I do not have the anxiety during the day that I still had on the 1/10. I do exercise and lots of breathing.
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thank you for the support Dahliagirl, although you are right I should have started with the Femoston 1/10. Glad it has helped you. I will see how it goes and trying to think more positively. 8)
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I am sure it will be fine - 2mg is a medium dose. I think they just like you to try the low dose first to see if it works, as there was a 'lowest dose for the shortest time' edict after the millennium studies panic. You will need to give it a good try though. It is sometimes worth keeping a diary every day, as one day you can feel bad, then it feels as if it has been like that forever, and vice versa. A diary gives you better perspective.
Since I upped to the 2mg, I feel more normal. Not inclined to burst into tears, go mad and do something daft, or hide away because I am too scared of doing the above. :)
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Hi Juliet
Sorry you aren't feeling good. I was intolerant to progesterone. Hated it. Everything you are going through is normal & you are not alone. Your husband probably doesn't understand why you have changed. Have you tried talking to him about the menopause & how it is affecting you. It is very unsettling to feel like that I know but with the right HRT you can get back to being you
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I can't wait to feel like that Dahliagirl. I was keeping a video diary as I have a Youtube channel for other stuff, but to be honest I have struggled to motivate myself to keep a record for the past few days, so I think I will go back to recording my mood in my diary for now and not stress about video stuff. You are right, I do have better days, although my days currently are characterised by waking up anxious which worsens for a couple of hours and then fades into very low mood. I used to be such a curious person always wanting to find out stuff, now I can't see the point. I feel like my sense of humour has completely deserted me. I so hope I feel the benefits of HRT soon. Then I start wondering if maybe this has nothing to do with the meno and that my whole life is the problem!
Thank you for your understanding words, Paisley, my husband is the one bright spot in all this and his has been so supportive. He has struggled with depression on and off for years so he understands me and is really trying to step up. I hate seeing him worry about me and I know he misses the me from before.
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It is worth getting a bit of sunshine if you have low mood :sunny: It is the time of year when your vit D is depleted, but the sun is out so you can make some more :) :sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny:
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I'm on it 8)
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Hi all,
it has been awhile since I posted, but wanted to let people know how things have been going. I have some questions about Femoston 2/10 but I think I will start a different thread for that as I know I search on the HRT brand name when looking for info.
Overall, I am in a much better place since taking HRT. Low mood is definitely improved although I feel I am fragile and a poor night sleep, or too much to drink, or even a change in routine can set it off really easily. Anxiety is coming and going and I think i am detecting a pattern related to Femoston (but will start new thread when taken another month).
I am also coming to terms with the fact that the menopause has changed so much about me, what I like to do, who I like to spend time with and what my motivators in life are, what I eat, drink ... everything is different and that can be hard for the people around me as they too have to adjust. I am definitely less sociable and easy going than before and I have let some relationships drift as a result because I no longer feel a closeness, connection or desire to be with those people. Having said that, I am also much more appreciative of the friends I have in my life and times we do spend together. I also have a much better understanding of what to do and say around friends and family who are struggling with mental health and have learnt that sometimes all that person wants is to be heard and cuddled and reassured, whereas before I may have tried to offers suggestions to change/ improve the situation, which can add to the sense of stress/ anxiety.
I wouldn't say I am out of the woods, but I have to remember every bad day, poor night sleep or anxious feeling is not necessarily due to hormones and HRT therefore can't solve everything. I will have been on HRT for 3 months in mid June and I am definitely planning on continuing, but may also seek further advice from a specialist to make sure I am taking the optimal combination.
Looking back at the start of this thread I have come along way and want to thank everyone who responded when I was feeling desperate and without hope.
:)
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So pleased you are finding a good way forward. Hrt can't fix everything - lots of things need to change to really cope with this tome in our lives. Hopefully further improvements will come with time.
I'd stick with what you are doing for now - making more changes may be out of the frying pan and into that fire. Good luck. DG x