Menopause Matters Forum

Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Noheroicsplease on February 13, 2018, 06:59:22 AM

Title: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Noheroicsplease on February 13, 2018, 06:59:22 AM
I've come to the conclusion that HRT doesn't do anything for me. Apart from wakeful sleeping and general fatigue, I never had any physical symptoms - mild night sweats, no hot flushes etc - even after a year without periods. My mood was bad, my emotions quick to turn, and I often felt sad/emotional

My reasons for going on mirena and oestrogel (now Evoret) were because of osteoporosis threat. I was only 46, turning 47 and my mum and sister have osteoporosis.

Roll on 18 months, and I honestly don't think that anything has changed. I still feel either irritable, angry or deeply emotional. I don't feel happy. And I feel sad that I don't feel happy because I have a good life, lots to feel thankful for.

I'm thinking of ditching HRT and turning to anti-deps.

I don't know why I'm posting, I've said this stuff before, I just suppose I feel in a circle with it all
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Dotty on February 13, 2018, 07:49:13 AM
Anti depressants won't help you with osteoporosis so stay with hrt if you need osteoporosis protection. Maybe you need a higher dose of hrt.
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Daisydot on February 13, 2018, 08:45:00 AM
Good advice from dotty I'd go back to gp and discuss options for trying another type of hrt.ive had three different ones before I found one ,the Oestrogel pump,that I was comfier with.good luck xx
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Noheroicsplease on February 13, 2018, 09:31:31 AM
I don't feel I need a different HRT. I have had no physical symptoms to deal with. I don't think HRT is always particularly effective with emotional/mood stuff.
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: pamb on February 13, 2018, 09:38:48 AM
HRT may not be helping with emotional problems but it will be helping with bone health and other health issues that won't be noticeable on a day to day basis.

pamb x
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Dotty on February 13, 2018, 09:41:35 AM
Why don't you stop taking it and see what happens? You might be surprised to find out what it is helping.

It is definitely helping your bones which is one of your main reasons for taking it.

Everyone is different and it comes down to personal choice.
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Daisydot on February 13, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
The hrt will protect you with the osteoporosis issue and it just may lift your mood it's worth persevering with and alongside it if you want to try ADs then maybe discuss options with gp.good luck whichever way you decide to go xx
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Dancinggirl on February 13, 2018, 10:22:45 AM
Noheriocsplease

You are worried about osteoporosis so I would stay with the Mirena and Oestrogel if I were you, for a few more years, to help your bones.
Many women find they need an AD/SSRI alongside HRT so why not simply try a low dose of AD to see if that helps. I assume you do exercise and Mindfulness to help with mood?
This stage in our lives can really ‘mess with our heads'. I find it so hard to hang onto any self confidence these days.
DG x
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Noheroicsplease on February 13, 2018, 10:25:47 AM
Thanks all.

I do SO much exercise. I am really clued up and clear about food. I don't feel I can do much more for myself than I'm doing.

I think I might try some antideps.

x
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Taz2 on February 13, 2018, 11:56:10 AM
I don't feel I need a different HRT. I have had no physical symptoms to deal with. I don't think HRT is always particularly effective with emotional/mood stuff.

I've been on HRT for eleven years and though it's helped wonderfully with physical symptoms I've never found it helpful in terms of lifting my mood. Can't you stay on it for the bone protection and add in an AD for the depression/low mood?

Taz x
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: sheila99 on February 13, 2018, 01:59:52 PM
I wouldn't write off HRT without speaking to your GP again or perhaps a meno clinic. I'm new to this as in peri & only been on HRT for 2.5 weeks but it has made a difference to me. I was fed up and tetchy, now more relaxed and less likely to over-react. Sleeping better though by no means perfect. Also permanently tired, now a bit better but not normal. You have many of the sypmtoms I have and HRT is improving them for me, so I would be wondering you'd benefit from a higher dose & also testosterone. It seems crazy to me they work on a 'suck it and see' approach rather than measuring levels and prescribing the dose based on this.
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: dangermouse on February 13, 2018, 04:08:36 PM
Isn't it that you only need to take oestrogen for your bones if you have an early menopause? Mid 40s isn't technically early, surely?
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Dancinggirl on February 13, 2018, 04:24:54 PM
To be low on oestrogen from your mid 40s is not good for the bones and there is also a genetic element - so if close family have osteoporosis then HRT would be advisable. If the average age for menopause is early 50s then mid 40s is to soon, so 8-10 years without oestrogen would have an effect. It is known that 5 years of HRT in our 50s will protect the heart and bones for the long terms to hopefully in time they will find a way to deliver oestrogen to all women in their 50s without any risks.  DG x
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Mary G on February 13, 2018, 07:14:59 PM
Noheroicsplease, it sounds like you are stuck in what I call the HRT halfway house.  Sometimes you can be free of basic menopause symptoms but still not firing on all cylinders which indicates low oestrogen.

I think you were originally on the right regime of Oestrogel with a Mirena coil but probably on the wrong dose of gel.  Getting the dose right is the key to success and as I've said on here so many times, if you have a Mirena coil, you need a high dose of oestrogen to counter the side effects from the coil which include constant low mood for some women. 

If you feel you are suffering with constant low mood and/or hormonal anxiety and depression, you need to consider increasing to 4 pumps of gel every day to override your own hormones - this condition needs specific, targetted treatment.  This is what gypsyroselee does so you might want to look at some of her posts - she also uses ADs and I believe she is doing very well but it took her a long time to get there. 

What dose of patch are you on?  When I used a 50mcg with a Mirena coil it was so ineffectual I might as well not have bothered using it at all.  I would switch back to Oestrogel because it will be easier to attain a high level of oestrogen.  I would also split the dose by about 12 hours to avoid dips.

If you try the high dose of oestrogen and it doesn't work out then you could look at other options but I would at least give it a try before giving up on HRT completely. 
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Noheroicsplease on February 13, 2018, 09:14:21 PM
Hi all, thanks for your replies.

MaryG, you're prob right. I am in a halfway house. I'm def not firing on all cylinders.

I'm on 50cmg patch with mirena. I was on 2 pumps a day with ostrogel. I hate how big my boobs get with anymore than that, and I really didn't feel any different on 3 (tried it for 2 weeks) so I'm hugely reluctant to keep increasing it. I didn't like the feeling of a very high dosage.

Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Emerald2017 on February 13, 2018, 09:41:55 PM
Hi! Maybe your expectations for hrt are too high!
It's not the magic cure but definitely it helps.
Maybe you cannot see the results now but it has positive consequences long term.
My mum had her meno at 47 and it took Tibolone for 15 years. He has no osteoporosis, nice skin and looks younger for her age. He said to me yesterday that if she knew how beneficial was Livial for her wellbeing, she would stay for life.
I'm 42 and on hrt. My psychological state isn't so stable as before but I think it's due to my thoughts and my difficulty to accept the new reality and not due to hrt. Hope it helps! 🌹
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: dangermouse on February 14, 2018, 12:25:41 PM
The idea of upping to 4 pumps is to suppress your natural cycle more aggressively, like with the pill.

Surging and plummeting oestrogen can cause a lot of overwhelming feelings and by upping the dose you would naturally get worse before you get better - until your brain registers the constant high oestrogen levels and then it suppresses any volatility.
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Kathleen on February 14, 2018, 02:04:37 PM
Hello Noheroicsplease.

I can't advise you  unfortunately but I also feel stuck in a halfway house regarding HRT.

My symptoms have also been predominantly emotional although I've never been completely free of  flushing, I also  have  internal shaking but I don't know if that is a manifestation of anxiety or a completely physical symptom seeing as I feel utterly calm and normal when it suddenly stops! I am currently taking  an anti depressant but I may need to review that as well.

Sorry to ramble on about myself but I wanted you to know that there are others in a similar dilemma  and I totally understand how frustrating and exhausting it all is.

Wishing you well.

K.
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Annie0710 on February 14, 2018, 02:15:19 PM
Kathleen each time my mood dips I remember that I've been missing my vit D pills.  Perhaps add some to your daily regime? Within a day I feel better.  It could be placebo but I do it anyway.  It's best to take K2 pills with them x
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Kathleen on February 14, 2018, 06:16:13 PM
Hello Annie.

You make a good point. I used to take s good quality vitamin D3  tablet but when they run out I resorted to some cheap ones that I found at the back of the cupboard. I think I need to re order!

Thanks for the heads up!

K.
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: weathergirl on February 14, 2018, 08:26:04 PM
noheroics, sort of like yourself, I feel HRT really did nothing for me.  Like you have mentioned, I did not have classic meno symptoms, or really much of any symptoms.  I think my estrogen dropped very gradually over time and as such, my body adjusted to it. 

I mostly used HRT for bone health and to stave off any symptoms (I read too many menopause horror stories which I should not have done :( ).  I've gone off it now (age 52) - been off it for months and feel no different. HRT is not for everyone.  I don't necessarily think increasing the dose is always the answer.  I tried that (earlier in my HRT use) and it created more problems for me than solutions.   You need to follow what your gut is telling you.   If you are not comfortable with doing something, then it probably won't feel right to you anyway. 

As others have mentioned, I agree that for some, perhaps increasing dosage or trying different formulations is worthwhile.  It's a personal decision/choice.  If you are a dedicated exerciser, you are doing a lot to protect your bone health already  :), even if estrogen is a better source for protection.  Such personal decisions these are!   I just wanted to mention that I feel similarly to you in the way HRT did not really 'work' for me.   I wish you the best in whatever you decide - health and happiness.  :)
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Daisydot on February 14, 2018, 09:08:59 PM
Kathleen amazon sell a spray combi of vitamin d3 and k2 much easier than pills you just spray into your mouth each day.it bypasses liver that way so you'll get a better dose in the body.good luck xx
Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: Noheroicsplease on February 15, 2018, 09:23:51 AM
Thank you all.

I don't think I'm going to increase the estrogen at the moment. When I did have too much early on, I couldn't sleep, I felt weird and my boobs were huge and very tender - I exercise a lot and this really gets in the way.

And I don't know why, I'm just not convinced this is the way forward - for me. I don't doubt it works for others.

I'm going to stick with what I'm doing, and try and supplement it with as many mood-enhancers as I can (natural ones). If it doesn't work, then I'll think about anti-deps in a month.

I will try to stay on HRT until I'm at least 50, given the bone issue. But I agree with Weathergirl - whose post is spot on, for me - I don't think it doesn't very much for me. I never have felt it has.

Title: Re: When you don't notice any difference from your HRT
Post by: paisley on February 18, 2018, 01:44:35 PM
Over the 8 years I have been in meno I tried so many HRTs & different delivery methods & not one really worked for me. I think because we are all different HRT works for some people but there is a minority for whom it just doesn't work for no matter how much you increase it, decrease it or change it. I stopped mine 8 months ago. Got fed up trying