Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => New Members => Topic started by: appey on December 13, 2017, 09:09:15 PM
-
Hi
Hoping that someone might have some advice for me...thank you..
My main issue is ongoing palpitations - ectopic/missed beats, rather than fast heartbeat. Having had an ablation in 2013 to sort tachycardia (fast heartbeat) I am used to living with the odd missed beat, but in March they started to get out of control and, to cut a very long story short, I ended up taking time off work in the with anxiety and depression because of them and was struggling to sleep.
I am 48 and had had irregular periods for a few years, aswell as bouts of thrush and had 2 ovarian cysts out in 2015. I had had a few hot flushes but they had been manageable. Once I had had many tests on my heart and told all was fine and it was 'probably menopause and the palpitations will go eventually' my GP put me on femoston-conti 1mg/5mg. The hot flushes went straight away. I did though have a few light bleeds. Over the summer I began to feel better and had fewer palpitations and generally thought I was getting somewhere. I am a teacher so having 6 weeks off definitely helped but after a couple of weeks back to work I seemed to be back to loads of palpitations again. I seemed to be exhausted all the time. I decided then to contact Diane Danzebrink from Menopause Support and she suggested taking utrogestan and evorel patches. So i went back to my GP and she was very understanding and prescribed those to me. She upped the oestrogen to 75, so the patch I'm taking is evorel 75 and I take the utrogestan at night on days 1 to 25 and then nothing on days 26, 27 and 28. I have now been on that regime for 9 weeks. The first month I didn't bleed at all, the second month I seemed to bleed for most of the month. I am now managing work, but that's about all and feel exhausted in the evenings when the palpitations are at their worst. Work has been very very busy, as teaching usually is and its been a very long half term, but I still feel like there is no resilience in my body and that something is out of sync. I am really hoping that 2 weeks off at Christmas and a proper rest will help. I probably need to give this new regime of hrt a bit longer, but just wondering if anyone else has had an experience like mine and has any advice? I have also been thinking about looking into acupuncture and whether anyone else has had any experience of that helping?
All thoughts very welcome
Thank you
-
Hi appey
:welcomemm:
You have been prescribed the regime for women who are post-menopause or those who have irregular bleeding. It could well be that the utrogestan is causing you to be sedated most of the time. Why not try using it on a cycle - which is what you should do until you are post-menopausal (and beyond if you want to - like some of us on here). You would take 200 mg for 12 days per cycle and then you would get a regular withdrawal bleed. Not sure what the palpitations are caused by - low oestrogen is often cited - but as youo are on a high-ish dose patch then this is an unlikely explanation. Maybe as you are peri-menopausal you are still experiencing the effects of your own hormonal fluctuations? I got ectopics in pregnancy and switched to decaff coffee. I haven't been bothered by them much since although recently they have just started again - I'm in mid 60's and do drink quite a bit of caffeine. Have you cut down on this as it could help?
Do you take the utrogestan orally? I take it vaginally and it deals with my womb lining very effectively - but you might not want to do this.
Acupuncture won't work as such - only in the sense that the placebo and "concentrating on you" therapy can make you feel better.
Do think about changing the progesterone dosage and let us know what you decide and how you get on - and yes hope you have a relaxing and recuperative time over Christmas! :)
Hurdity x
-
Thanks for your advice Hurdity
I had been wondering about whether I was taking the utrogestan correctly as the instructions in the packet are different to what my GP prescribed- and she did have to look it up! Everything has felt a bit ‘trial and error'. I do still think I'm feeling the affects of my own cycle as some days I'm perfectly fine and then other days have loads of palpitations and feel shattered. I've started bleeding again today, like a period, which explains why I felt so terrible yesterday and this morning. I've only had a week though without bleeding. My ‘day 1' was technically last Thursday, so today is day 8. Should I see this month out and then change to 200mg on just 12 days next month? At the moment I'm taking the utrogestan orally - not 100% sure about vaginally, but at the moment I'll do anything to feel ‘normal' again.
With regards coffee- I've been on decaf tea and coffee for years, hardly drink any alcohol - none at the moment. I do need to get back to doing some exercise. Have taken up yoga which I love and the breathing does help, but I do know I need some aerobic exercise too which will help with the palpitations I'm sure.
I am thinking of emailing Dr Heather Currie with my story too.
-
Hi, this is exactly what I'm experiencing at the moment. I went through the menopause surgically and early at 31 and I'm not 47. I was on prempak C for a number of years and all seemed well but, prempak c has now been discontinued by the manufacturer and since May this year I have not felt right and GP has tried me on several different hrt. I thought there was something wrong with my heart as was having regular palpitations and panic attacks and a general feeling of stress and doom. My heart has been checked out and all is ok. I have been under alot of stress with my elderly mum this year as she was having chemo, this is now finished and she has recovered.
I am still getting heart palps, although diminished in frequency but now having started another hrt last week Kliovance now feel light headed and last night had a really bad episode of palps. I was getting ectopics as well earlier in summer but they have calmed down. I'm all over the place with anxiety and just to say keeping it together. I work part time as a medical secretary! I'm going to ask the GP I think to refer me to a specialist clinic/get my heart checked out together. I do feel as though I'm going crazy somedays and can't quite believe if the way I'm feeling is all down to hormones!
-
Sorry to hear you're having a bad time too. It is so hard to stay logical!
I've been trying to just get on with life and pushing through the days but my body has given up again and I went down with a virus on Friday so feeling very rubbish and having loads of palpitations. I keep having to take the odd day off work which is not like me and I hate being unreliable.
I'm glad I had my heart completely checked out as that does act as reassurance when I'm feeling logical. There are also some really useful videos on YouTube that I saw mentioned in another thread on this forum by Dr Sanjay Gupta. Well worth searching out and watching. I'll see if I can find the link again for you.
I still believe mine all began with hormones, which I still feel aren't right, but I think stress has also played its part and I feel like I'm at the bottom of a hole again and need to get back to basics and start the climb out.
Hope you are feeling ok today
-
Go to YouTube and type in Dr Sanjay Gupta York Cardiolgist for the videos.
All very reassuring
-
Thanks for your advice Hurdity
I had been wondering about whether I was taking the utrogestan correctly as the instructions in the packet are different to what my GP prescribed- and she did have to look it up! Everything has felt a bit ‘trial and error'. I do still think I'm feeling the affects of my own cycle as some days I'm perfectly fine and then other days have loads of palpitations and feel shattered. I've started bleeding again today, like a period, which explains why I felt so terrible yesterday and this morning. I've only had a week though without bleeding. My ‘day 1' was technically last Thursday, so today is day 8. Should I see this month out and then change to 200mg on just 12 days next month? At the moment I'm taking the utrogestan orally - not 100% sure about vaginally, but at the moment I'll do anything to feel ‘normal' again.
With regards coffee- I've been on decaf tea and coffee for years, hardly drink any alcohol - none at the moment. I do need to get back to doing some exercise. Have taken up yoga which I love and the breathing does help, but I do know I need some aerobic exercise too which will help with the palpitations I'm sure.
I am thinking of emailing Dr Heather Currie with my story too.
Appey - sorry I missed this - been busy so not looked in to this section! Did you sort out about taking the utrogestan cyclically in the end? Hope you manage to get it to work with your cycle and do let us know the outcome?
Hurdity x
-
Hi, this is exactly what I'm experiencing at the moment. I went through the menopause surgically and early at 31 and I'm not 47. I was on prempak C for a number of years and all seemed well but, prempak c has now been discontinued by the manufacturer and since May this year I have not felt right and GP has tried me on several different hrt. I thought there was something wrong with my heart as was having regular palpitations and panic attacks and a general feeling of stress and doom. My heart has been checked out and all is ok. I have been under alot of stress with my elderly mum this year as she was having chemo, this is now finished and she has recovered.
I am still getting heart palps, although diminished in frequency but now having started another hrt last week Kliovance now feel light headed and last night had a really bad episode of palps. I was getting ectopics as well earlier in summer but they have calmed down. I'm all over the place with anxiety and just to say keeping it together. I work part time as a medical secretary! I'm going to ask the GP I think to refer me to a specialist clinic/get my heart checked out together. I do feel as though I'm going crazy somedays and can't quite believe if the way I'm feeling is all down to hormones!
Hi cazjen44
:welcomemm:
What type of HRT are you taking at the moment? It may well be that the oestrogen dose isn't quite right to deal with your symptoms? Perhaps you need to revaluate? Let us know the different types you've tried too. The closest to prempak C is taking Premarin oestrogen (same oestrogen - the equine one) only along with Provera as the progestogen.
Hurdity x
-
No problem Hurdity its a busy time of year!
I haven't done anything yet about changing when to take the utrogestan as wasn't sure that I could suddenly swap mid cycle and I'm on day 13 today.
So thought I would have to wait until day 1 again- is that right?
I'm also laid up with a virus so feeling fairly rubbish and exhausted and having loads of palpitations again. I just want to feel ‘normal' again'
I have paid my money to send Dr Currie an email but haven't had the return email yet to then send my question to her.
-
Hurdity- I tried to quote your part, but obviously didn't manage that, so hope you're following the thread!
-
No problem! Day 1 is supposed to be the first day of your bleed and when you start to take the oestrogen only part. Of course when you get further into menopause your own cycle might pop up at different times rather than every month but hopefully the HRT will begin to override it anyway. If you start to bleed late on during the progesterone part you still continue to take the whole course and don;t readujust your cycle. It would only be if it is totally out of sync that adjustment might be needed I would say? Hope you get it sorted! :)
Hurdity x
-
Hi everyone
Any more advice would be fab please as life feels like hell at the moment!
Since I last posted in December I have seen a consultant and he suggested the mirena coil and sandrena gel. Although the ectopic beats were still a pain during the day my main symptom from January to March was sheer exhaustion. I was a bit unsure about the coil, but having spoken to a couple of friends who have it, decided to go ahead.
He said to stop the utrogestan - i initially thought that migth be causing my exhaustion - so i was just using my evorel 75 patch from January. desperate for an answer my GP allowed me to change to 0.5mg of sandrena gel which I started on February 12th. Round about this time I actually had 3 pretty good weeks, but this was because I was sleeping like a baby every night, Then on February 26th i suddenly stopped sleeping, being woken up by raised heartbeat. Nothing too fast, but enough to wake me up and keep me awake. I think I am so heart aware that i notice any change. Since then sleep has been hard to come by. I had my coil fitted on March 6th and my consultant said i could up my gel to 1.5mg. I decided I would do it gradually so for a few days just used 1mg. I then saw my GP in my desperation re sleep and she said to up it to 1.5mg. I did this for a couple of days but just felt like I was getting an initial hit and then it would wear off. I was thinking - not sure if this is right- that the gel then had come out of my system by the nighttime and so causing hormone fluctuations and so palpiations. I have a tall and then and have a high metabollic rate and need to eat little and often. I then decided to change back to my evorel 75 patch last Friday, as thought that was giving me a continuous amount and might be better. I slept pretty well on Friday, Saturday, but that may have just been coincidence as I was so shattered. I'm really at a lost to know what to do. My nights are just awful I go to sleep ok, but then generally wke up an hour and a half later with a raised heartbeat. At times it feels like a real adrenalin surge on and off all night. If I'm lucky I then resettle and sleep for another hour. Last night it just felt like I had palpitations all night. I'm signed off work at the moment as can barely function and feeling quite panicky at night sometimes. I know I'm in a real spiral of anxiety so its hard to now how mch is anxiety and how much is hormones. I'm also not sure if the coil is actually making things worse - althoug my sleep had fallen apat before that was fitted, but evertyting seems to be getting worse. My GP did give me mirtazapine at one appointment, which I took for one night, It did the job and I slept through but then felt really odd the next day and had a raised heartbeat all day so didnt want to take that again. I also have beta blockers 10mg propanolol which I have taken in the past, but they also make me feel odd.
So do I just stick with the patch which I have on now. Shall I supplement the patch with say 0.5mg of gel, maybe at night, or should I rip the patch off and give the gel a proper go. Or should I just strip back to nothing- which has gone through my mind on many occasions- athough I know my GP's not going to want to take the coil out so soon!
I have had blood tests to check everything and all is fine and I am definitely perimenopausal. I have read other posts on here about the adrenalin surges at night so I know I'm not alone.
In the meantime I am seeing an acupuncturist which has helped with keeping the adrenalin in check, although abviously not at nigth. Am wondering now if should actually see a hypnotherapist as I'm sure my anxiety is having an impact at night too. I live in near Staines in Surrey - can anyone recommend anyone? Has anyone ever used hypnotherapy?
Thanks everyone x
-
PS my estradiol level in January was 576 pm/L
Serum FSH level 11.7 is/L
Serum LH level 4.1 is/L
Not sure if that makes sense to anyone. My GP just said it showed I was perimenopausal
With regards palpitations - when menstruating regularly I would have palpitations just before a bleed but then my body would calm down when I actually started bleeding.
I did speak to Diane Danzebrink at the beginning of all this and she did query whether the palps were due to estrogen dominance but I've never really had pmt and don't serm to have other symptoms. My consultant thinks I just can't function on a low level of estrogen. I tend to think it's more about the balance for me. But just completely lost at the moment.
Sorry to ramble on x
-
Hi
I haven't read all your story but I've had a nightmare with palpitations especially during peri which must be the hormone fluctuations. It has lessened considerably since post meno and I was diagnosed with arrhythmia years before peri. I had a 24 hr monitor and it showed ridiculous arrhythmia, going so fast from 40bpm to 140bpm even during sleep, missed beats, double beats. They were considering ablation but a scan fortunately showed a healthy heart.
For sleep I used phenergan, that worked a treat, and since I'm now on amitriptyline for nerve pain that works great for sleep. I take mag and vitD and feel this helps. I'm still get the occasional jumpy heart just as I'm falling asleep which is annoying as I have to start from square one falling asleep again
-
Thanks Annie
I used to have phenergan as a child. Didn't know it was still around!
Have taken magnesium on and off so probably need to take that again. I take a multi vit with extra vit d.
Have been trying to nap this morning but just as I'm falling asleep I feel panic and wake up! Off to do a bit of yoga now and some mindfulness. Hoping that will help the anxiety
-
Just wondering if anyone has any ideas what to do re my oestrogen.
(Plse see my story above)
My nights are absolutely horrendous at the moment.
Is this all down to low estrogen?
-
It's so hard to say, I think mine was obviously lacking something and I changed my regime all at all nice so I'd have no idea why mine dramatically reduced, I do still get them but nowhere near on the scale they once were
Unfortunately it's trial and error but best to change/amend dose one at a time x
-
Thanks so much for your thoughts.
I'm just so desperate today. Ended up taking a 15mg Mirtazapine at 3am which drugged me up till 11 and I now feel completely dazed and sedated. I could quite easily go back to sleep again now. My lovely husband has ended up working at home today as he's so worried about me.
Off to have a shower and try and do something for the rest of the day.
-
Hi Appey
Just read your story which sounds very similar to mine!l. I suffered from palpitations all last summer which disturbed my sleep most nights. I didn't realise at the time that I was peri as didn't really have hot flushes (i'm Now 48) and put it down to stress. I tried various things to calm it and help sleep inc valerian tablets, Acupuncture etc which gave temporary respite but didn't get rid of the palps. Eventually they got so bad that i went to to the urgent care Centre and they gave me sleeping tablets (which I didn't take in the end) and beta blockers (which did help).
By then (last September) I had also booked an appointment with a private HRT Dr who ran my bloods about a week later and found that I was officially menopausal! (Estradiol was 128 and progesterone 0.3). I was on put on low dose bio identical estradiol (0.1mg/day) l but after 6 weeks my E levels had gone up to 1800 so I had to stop the E, my levels then kept on rising to over 3000! Apparently this can happen with some women during the peri menopause ie an esrtrogen surge.
My levels stayed high for a couple of months and then since mid-Jan they have been falling and that's when the palps started again, and they have got really bad in the last couple of weeks, even though the latest blood test 1 month ago showed reasonable E levels of 410.
So
I think like you I need to have high E levels in order to avoid palps. At the moment I am just using red clover and Acupuncture to try and calm things, as well as progesterone at night, as my HRT doc doesn't want me to re-start the estradiol until my levels are really low again. I also had the Mirena coil fitted in order to protect my uterus.
However for me the palps have been one of the worst symptoms - more than hot flushes - as like you when I get them it is really hard to function properly.
I hope you find the answers to your situation, it may be that you need to raise your estrogen intake?
Mx
-
PS appey are you still taking the utrogestan? My HRT doc said I should still take it if I needed help sleeping despite having the coil - as the progestin in the Mirena as synthetic does not have the same sleep inducing properties as the utrogestan!
-
Thanks so much MaritaB for your reply and for reading my very long story! Sorry to hear you're going through a nightmare aswell.
I'm also seeing an acupuncturist at the moment, which I can tell makes a difference when I'm there, but I think I've mucked everything else around so much recently it hasn't really had a chance.
I stopped taking the utrogestan in January as my nhs consultant said I didn't need any progesterone immediately and could wait until the coil was fitted. I had wondered if all those weeks without progesterone had led to these awful nights. My husband and I have been discussing today about me going to see a private specialist and get some proper blood tests done. Everything has seemed to be such guess work. So think that I will be on the phone first thing on Monday morning.
Using utrogestan as a sleep aid is an excellent idea. I still have plenty!
I'll keep you posted
Hope you're having a good day today xx
-
Hi Appey
It's interesting that your consultant said you didn't need progesterone, was this when you started the hrt ? As the standard advice is to give both estrogen and progesterone if you still have your uterus. The bio indentical practitioners (like my doc) also prescribe progesterone regardless, as it doesn't just protect the uterus but also effects mood, sleep etc - so definitely worth trying to see if it helps!
It sounds like it's also worth getting a private consultation if you can afford it - where abouts do you live?
Hope you have a relaxing day today 😎 M x
-
PS start with just one utrogestan tablet at night not 2 and see how that works.
I have also been getting palpitations just before my period over the last year so definitely think it's to do with falling estrogen levels.
-
It was only whilst I was waiting for the coil to be fitted that he said that I didn't need to bother with the utrogestan. At that point in Dec/Jan I thought the utrogestan was making me more tired. But with hindsight don't think it was that.
I live near Heathrow. Am thinking about ringing the Surrey Park Clinic in Guildford.
I also used to get palps before a period and then all would be calm when my period started.
I've only had a couple of periods in the last year.
-
It was only whilst I was waiting for the coil to be fitted that he said that I didn't need to bother with the utrogestan. At that point in Dec/Jan I thought the utrogestan was making me more tired. But with hindsight don't think it was that.
I live near Heathrow. Am thinking about ringing the Surrey Park Clinic in Guildford.
I also used to get palps before a period and then all would be calm when my period started.
-
Hi Appey it will be good to get your bloods done because I also found I had palps when my E levels were climbing sky high as well (although I didn't realise that's what was causing it at the time) - because I wasn't taking in enough progesterone to balance the amount of oestrogen my body was producing. So I wonder in your case if it's either a case of your E levels spiking - as happened with me - or you are not taking in enough oestrogen via the HRT and your body needs more. Either way the clinic should be able to give you a quick response.
Best of luck and hope you sleep better tonight! Mx
-
Thanks MaritaB xx
-
Oestrogen surges can be terrifying and it is a difficult period of meno to control due to all the volatility.
I'm a clinical Hypnotherapist and it could help to calm your thoughts and mind if you panic when you get the surges, however, the physical adrenaline would need very intense hypnosis to disrupt the central nervous system. I've not tried it myself and self hypnosis would be harder to direct in this way.
I would give the Utrogestan a try to see if adding that in without the oestrogen calms you down. When I was in a particularly acute phase (very severe and migraine nausea on top) I used the combined pill to calm the surges. This was before I discovered progesterone cream but the pill is cheaper if works for you.
-
Thanks Dangermouse. X