Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: CLKD on October 23, 2017, 01:19:34 PM
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I am avoiding medication for as long as possible. During a raft of recent blood tests my cholesterol was found to be still high. GP muttering about stroke risk and statins ...... am waiting for a new set of blood results and have an appt. for end of October. In the mean time am cutting out croissants etc. :o and have added benecol products to my diet. The yoghurts aren't too bad and I take my evening AD with the small bottle of drink.
Has anyone here had success in lowering cholesterol to a level that the GP is happy with other than by taking statins?
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I did by keeping my fat levels down to those of a healthy diet with less than 20g saturated fat. I was very strict and made a spreadsheet (which I called my Low Fat Spreadsheet). I found it really difficult to get 2000 calories in though :( It was hard downing all the unprocessed carbohydrate. I lost 7lbs. I also let it lapse after I got vit D deficiency.
There is a diet around which uses plenty pulses (especially soy), nuts (especially almonds) and oats to reduce cholesterol.
Generally you replace saturated fats such as butter and dairy and red meats with non saturated fats such as olive oil, rapeseed, nut oils, oily fish.
You also need to reduce omega 6 fats in relation to omega 3. It is easy to get too much Omega 6 from things like sunflower oil and chicken. Rapeseed oil is better than sunflower and don't go overboard on chicken (try more pulses instead).
Just to add, I am on the fence on statins. I know someone who took them and said it was brilliant because she could eat what she wanted and one who had to stop taking them because of muscle pain (she is still around and eating what she likes ;) ) I would rather not take them.
Old studies show that an active lifestyle is the best thing. There is a classic one that compares bus drivers and bus conductors - guess which one had the best cholesterol results :D Someone I know went for a walk immediately after dinner every night with her husband, before the dishes were washed and it did help, but they got bored with it.
Plenty fruit and veg are your friends, along with wholegrains of different types. Keep refined stuff like biscuits, cakes and Tunnocks teacakes for special treats :(
Like I said above, I fell of the wagon when I got vit d deficiency, and also when I discovered nuts make my throat swell, but still try and eat plenty pulses and oats and less butter.
I haven't had a blood test in ages, but the last ones were still ok - slightly over on the total number but good ratio.
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How high is your cholesterol CLKD? I presume you've had the whole lot tested ie total, HDL, LDL and the ratio? The total on its own doesn't give the whole picture.
Mine was done and Total and LDL (the bad one) are high but HDL (the good one) is fine and the ration of total to HDL is also fine.
There is nothing I can do to lower mine because I eat very few carbs and sugar, few processed and refined foods, and not much saturated fat - although I don't measure it. I eat tons of fish, fruit, veg, eggs, nuts and pulses, low fat yogurt, and low fat meat, mainly olive oil and healthy fats, a few carb-rich foods like muesli. My diet is very very healthy. Also only small amount of alcohol mainly at weekends and within limits. Non-smoker. It makes not the slightest difference to my cholesterol levels.
I've never been offered statins nor would I take them because I take plenty of exercise, my blood pressure is very low, and I am within healthy BMI although could do with losing a few pounds weight. If your doc is muttering stroke risk there must be another reason. My doc put all the factors into a computer thing and an algorithm worked out my 10 year stroke risk as something like 7% which is very low so no need to do anything. Maybe see if doc has done this for you? I know it's only a crude measure but my doc said - get them re-tested in 2 years - and that was just from the total measurement - not even the HDL thing I mentioned.
She said some people just have naturally higher cholesterol depending on liver function. There have been threads on this recently and defo within last few months so you could look back and find the various responses. I'm not going to bump them because too many gets confusing to everyone but I'm sure you will be able to find them as you usually do!
So the answer is - my levels according to the usual measurement is high at last measurement (6.8) but not extremely high.... but my doc is happy with this without doing anything else and without taking statins....
Hope this helps :)
Hurdity x
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Tnx.
We eat healthy foods. Have done since we married. We eat very little spread ......... the daily recommended benocol amount is more than I eat in a week!
I don't like fish. Much ::). I don't drink alcohol. Don't smoke.
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Any NICE guidelines for Benecol ?
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Someone I know has just seen a dietitian regarding fats.
Cheese, crisps, cake and biscuits are the biggest culprits.
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Tnx. Apparently the NHS won't recommend Benecol 'because it is expensive to buy' - well most people have mobile technology, large TVs, good quality cars - and often buy yoghurts, so changing to the above shouldn't be a problem !?! of course, if it were recommend the NHS would have to prescribe it ::)
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Cheese, crisps, cake and biscuits are the biggest culprits Crisps are so nice ::)
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Oh for a chocolate eclair ;D with extra cream .........
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Sugar turns to fat ? Biscuits , cupnof t with sugar etc etc .
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The only cholesterol that Drs should consider treating with statins is the hereditory high chol. Statins have awful side effects.You need a full cholesterol count with the so called good and bad chol the GP can then work out your ratio but so so much more important is to check your tryglycerides and homocysteine levels these are the indicators for heart disease and stroke etc there is plenty of new evidence to indicate that cholesterol is in fact not the menace it has been made out to be. You need healthy fats in your diet, full cream milk, butter, coconut or olive oil, plenty of veggies, fruit, salads and of course protein, try to cut bck on all sugars and of course on sweet milky drinks, pizzas, bread etc and get at least 20 mins of walking or some exercise per day but statins are not great and in my opinion cause more problems than they are worth.
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I STOPPED TAKING STATINS, WHEN MY LOCAL PHARMCAIST SAID SHE WOULDNT TOUCH THEM
Sorry caps on by mistake
My sister suffers with muscle pain on them
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You are a Mine of Info :thankyou:
I won't stop my blackT with 2 sugars ;-). I don't drink enough anyway and by mid-afternoon tea tastes awful >:(. I've stoped grabbing for Coke instead.
My GP has been good in ordering lipid levels, result expected to be discussed on Monday. Himself has the same level - 7.5 - :D so we are upping activity, talked long into the night about what to avoid and realised that we haven't been told yet how statins actually work. He felt that his appt. yesterday was rushed: your cholesterol is up so take statins, end of!!!! Because it is known that they do cut risk they will be prescribed, so that the NHS can wash it's hands of us.
However, we feel that taking statins may well encourage people not to review their over-all Life-style ?!? ...... Benecol has been added to the diet, cheese cut out completely and more fish :sick02: added.
We had a 45 min walk in lovely sunshine earlier and since taking the VitD capsules daily I find it easier than I did a few weeks ago.
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Bowels upset :'(
Apparently one is supposed to: according to NHS Guidelines: have fasted for 12 hours blood tests for cholesterol!
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I take statins, have done for 2 years now.
I take them as we have familial non alcoholic fatty liver disease so most of my family are on them. I recently had a liver scan which confirms I have it so it's statins and diet control for me. My dad and my paternal grandmother died from strokes so I'm worried the same fate awaits me :o
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GP is insistent. No consideration of my changing/improving my diet or exercise regime, the subject wasn't up for discussion :'(. Handed a prescription for statins - must NOT eat GRAPEFRUIT ! I suppose long-term patients on statins are less likely to have stroke or heart attack which means less strain on NHS and Social Care - however :rant:
Still putting off taking the 1st tablet ...... in case of side effects.
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Have you had the results of the full profile? As I said initially and Cassie also said - total cholesterol on its own is not the important measurement. Mine was 7.4 at the docs - no action needed apart from a recheck in two years. Some other tests I had total cholesterol was also way over the limit, as was LDL. However HDL was within range and the most important measurement - ration of total to HDL was normal. I can't understand why you've been given statins - but I presume there is something else in your medical history for which this is indicated? As I said before my doc did the Qrisk thing and my stroke risk was very low - maybe you've had this test (an online risk thing) and yours was high? This depends amongst other things on BP as well as body weight. If they offered them to me on the basis of my total cholesterol I would have refused!
Hurdity x
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I feel your :rant: and have found you this :pills: :-\
Grapefruit was made to be avoided IMHO ;)
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My sister had a reading same as yours CLKD and was initially told to lose weight (even though she wasn't even overweight). She did lose weight but the level didn't change so was told it was obviously hereditary (both parents have it) and was given statins but she only took them for 3 months then stopped taking them as she found it hard to get to sleep at night. They made her feel hyper!
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Morning! Thanks Girls!
There is absolutely NO reason other than my age ......... she didn't ask about family history, nor what we eat/drink/exercise ......... I took the 1st tablet this morning and then saw a grapefruit >:( - haven't eaten one for years but OH did I fancy it. [tripe is made to be avoided IMHO ;-) ]
What the GP told me is that because we age the risk goes up and 'so far your diet hasn't altered the reading in 4/5 years' ........ surprisingly, Himself wrote to our GP [Practice Owner] as his level is raised, and on the back of some questions that he asked, he's been advised to lose weight, exercise more and alter his diet ....... neither blood test was done, as NHS Guidelines suggest, after 12 hours of fasting :-\.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't and we can't even be a 'double blind study' ;D
Snoooze - what did your sister's GP suggest - I was told that there are several different tablets to try :(
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Well it just once again goes to demonstrate the lack of consistency amongst the practicing medical profession - as with menopause - because as I said - there has never been any suggestion that I do anything about mine nor take anything - and if you haven't had your HDL and LDL done separately - it may well not be a problem anyway. Personally I wouldn't take any of them until having had that done because if your HDL is also high and therefore high ratio of Total to HDL - there isn't a problem - as far as I understand!
Hurdity x
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She just stopped of her own accord then never went back to the GP! This was in her early 50's. She does have a very sweet tooth and always has so I know she found it hard to cut those out but she's always on the go, she never sits still so she gets plenty of exercise as well.
My husband also had a high reading and was told to try and lose weight and go back for another test in 6 months (but he didn't - you know what men are like).
I've had the test Hurdity talks about. I had it back in my 30's when I was very overweight and they were both OK but had them done (not the fasting one) again during peri and my level had gone up slightly but was just told to exercise and eat oily fish 3 times a week.
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I don't like fish :-\ :-X
All testing was done without being fasted. Need to see if the next test in 3-4 weeks needs prior fasting.
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I itch - in my scalp, down my legs, 'bites' up and down my body ........ :-\
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CLKD there is a calculator on line and if you put your readings in it tells you the percentage and the difference statins would make over the next 10 years. I've just put mine in as I have been told to take them but I'm unsure :-\
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My GP did this in the surgery.
I itch.
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I had cholesterol tests done a few years ago, and the readings were pretty bad, however I was fairly sure I hadn't fasted for 12 hours so thinke they may have been slightly skewed. Doctor told me to try to lose weight, and said if that didn't work then it may well be pills. I haven't lost the weight, but there is no way I'll take pills as I do a reasonable amount of exercise and refuse to risk the joint aches and pains.
I'm no expert CLKD but if the original blood tests weren't done after fasting then I would be insisting on blood tests after a definite 12 hour fast before taking the pills.
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I had cholesterol tests done a few years ago, and the readings were pretty bad, however I was fairly sure I hadn't fasted for 12 hours so thinke they may have been slightly skewed. Doctor told me to try to lose weight, and said if that didn't work then it may well be pills. I haven't lost the weight, but there is no way I'll take pills as I do a reasonable amount of exercise and refuse to risk the joint aches and pains.
I'm no expert CLKD but if the original blood tests weren't done after fasting then I would be insisting on blood tests after a definite 12 hour fast before taking the pills.
At my practice patients get asked whether they have eaten during the past 12 hours before the blood sample is taken. If you say Yes , they don't continue. Obviously this only applies if relevant. Am surprised that you have managed to have a cholesterol blood test without fasting.
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Maybe because it was done as a full blood screening and showed up 7.5 ? However, Himself had a Well Man Check recently and his blood screening showed the same reading ::) - both not fasted. When I make the next appt I will ask the question. If I remember the answer, I'll be back to let you know :D
I haven't had joint pains but the itching yesterday was intense ::)
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I had cholesterol tests done a few years ago, and the readings were pretty bad, however I was fairly sure I hadn't fasted for 12 hours so thinke they may have been slightly skewed. Doctor told me to try to lose weight, and said if that didn't work then it may well be pills. I haven't lost the weight, but there is no way I'll take pills as I do a reasonable amount of exercise and refuse to risk the joint aches and pains.
I'm no expert CLKD but if the original blood tests weren't done after fasting then I would be insisting on blood tests after a definite 12 hour fast before taking the pills.
At my practice patients get asked whether they have eaten during the past 12 hours before the blood sample is taken. If you say Yes , they don't continue. Obviously this only applies if relevant. Am surprised that you have managed to have a cholesterol blood test without fasting.
Mine wasn't a cholesterol specific blood test. I was told to not eat on the morning of the blood test, but they didn't ask how long ago I'd actually eaten, and I didn't really think about that until I saw the 12 hour requirement on here.
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Now I'm puzzled as my results state non fasted ???
Looks like something else I need to investigate x
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It may depend on whether it's a cholesterol-specific test or included in the usual raft of 'routine' tests.
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It may depend on whether it's a cholesterol-specific test or included in the usual raft of 'routine' tests.
I have to fast if the range of tests being done includes cholesterol. I don't have to fast if they are just checking thyroid. I once suggested that the first hour of tests could be restricted to those who have to go to work together with patients who have to fast. I was told that the vast majority of patients are told to fast so this wouldn't help.
In my local area we have just heard that certain blood test centres are going to close by later this month. Fortunately mine isn't one of them but the queues will be longer. There may be an online booking option but I can't see how it is going to work effectively.
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That may be so in Hospital but I agree - have those fasted first! same with Ambulance and walk-in appts., all the Ambulances used to arrive at 10.00 a.m. ......... why not ask walk-ins to arrive at 11.30 ::)
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My Mum had a massive stroke and her total cholesterol was 3.9. She never recovered her health after that. My mother in law had total cholesterol of 4 and she died young from dementia. Cholesterol itself isn't the problem but excess sugar probably is more significant as it is converted into triglycerides- see my favourite video here.
https://www.drnorthrup.com/video/medical-tests-women-over-60/
To convert blood glucose values see here
http://www.joslin.org/info/conversion_table_for_blood_glucose_monitoring.html
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I am avoiding medication for as long as possible. During a raft of recent blood tests my cholesterol was found to be still high. GP muttering about stroke risk and statins ...... am waiting for a new set of blood results and have an appt. for end of October. In the mean time am cutting out croissants etc. :o and have added benecol products to my diet. The yoghurts aren't too bad and I take my evening AD with the small bottle of drink.
Has anyone here had success in lowering cholesterol to a level that the GP is happy with other than by taking statins?
Has trying Benecol made any difference since you wrote this CLKD? I have come back to this discussion for a different reason and have a question for other members.
Have any of you declared high cholesterol when buying travel insurance? I haven't up to now. I have just renewed my 1 year European policy but I am wondering whether I should add this. I don't have a weight problem, blood pressure is always ok and I don't have diabetes or smoke. My current insurer claims that anyone who has ever had high cholesterol must declare it even if they don't have it now.
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Hello ladies.
I recently had some tests and my numbers were fine but if they had been high I would've been asked to arrange a fasted blood test. A few years ago my total cholesterol was 5 but now it's 4.3, I wonder if this is due to changing my diet to plant based which means I don't eat any saturated fat from meat, eggs or dairy.
Wishing you all well ladies.
K.
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I 'went off' Benecol though DH is continuing with it as well as cooking more veg-based food mixes and we both need to do more exercise ::). Life has taken over :'( :-\ so I didn't get for my repeat blood test in mid-November ........ I have had muscle cramps which have now settled into the left arm which at times, is acute :o. It doesn't last long fortunately or I wouldn't take the medication.
Over-all my Life style (apart from lack of exercise) is good. DH is going to have a repeat blood test next month. If Life has settled ........
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Have any of you declared high cholesterol when buying travel insurance? I haven't up to now. I have just renewed my 1 year European policy but I am wondering whether I should add this. I don't have a weight problem, blood pressure is always ok and I don't have diabetes or smoke. My current insurer claims that anyone who has ever had high cholesterol must declare it even if they don't have it now.
I wouldn't even consider declaring it as it's not a health condition - unless doc has decreed that is something of concern in your case? Also I defo wouldn't if they are that unspecific. What do they mean by high cholesterol? Measurement of total cholesterol is not the important thing anyway. LDL (the bad one) and HDL (the good one) should be measured separately as well as the total and crucially the ratio between Total and HDL which should be less than 4 irrespective of actual Total and LDL readings. Also relevant is what the doc says about your high reading and your overall stroke risk. I have high Total and LDL but also in range HDL and in range ratio so no problem and no treatment. Also doc is not concerned as I have low stroke risk according to the Q risk thing they do.
Hurdity x
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How long do NICE Guidelines last? It states on the NHS web-site that cholesterol should be treated with diet and exercise advice B4 statins are prescribed. That was in 2015.
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Did anyone watch “trust me I'm a doctorâ€they tested three groups of adults first group olive oil second group butter third group coconut oil,they checked both cholesterol levels good and bad before and after the trials and the coconut oil was a clear winner,even though it's high in saturated fats it turned the bad cholesterol into good cholesterol and the scientists couldnt really explain why this had happened.I quite like the idea of taking a teaspoon of coconut oil each night usually before bed and I sneak it into as many menus or fry's that I can or in smoothies and it's a great help for Constipation as it smooths the way for bowel movements in a kind way.id much rather use that method than go down the route of statins again.
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Missed that one. We eat quite a bit of coconut 'milk' in curries and I get to finish the tin ;-)
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NICE Guidelines that you see on the NICE website are current ie up to date - the Menopause ones for example were also produced in 2015 and they will last a number of years. It takes at least two years for them to be produced. terms of reference need to be produced (not sure if this is the same for each review of guidelines?), a panel has to be appointed and then meet and review all the evidence and research, which has to be written up and the consultation process also takes a few months. Therefore the ones in 2015 are very up to date. I would suggest that if something was found that medically contradicted the advice, before Guidelines were due to be reviewed - some sort of caveat would be given at the start and ceretainly something puit on the NHS website too?
I can't imagine any doctor putting someone on statins without first suggesting a change in diet and exercise unless they were at imminent risk of having a stroke! If anyone suggested that to me I would - er - tell them politley where to put their statins. As I said earlier in this thread ( probably) the only thing I was told to do about my high cholesterol was to have it retested in two years time (I think I told the doc about my diet and lifestyle...).
Hurdity x
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:thankyou: Hurdity. She was insistent. She wouldn't listen ::). I am not at risk. I think that she has personal experience about stroke. However .......... I'll see what the next blood test shows. If I remember, I may even update here :D