Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: sn00py on September 18, 2017, 07:28:54 AM
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I have been having bad perimenopause symptoms for over 3 1/2 years - mainly anxiety, depression, insomnia. I was on Mirtazapine and as i thought i was getting better i weaned myself off of it over 2 years. I tried BHRT but had bad reaction to it. And suddenly spring of this year i started to get anxiety and insomnia again and this time around my depression is really bad. Finally went to my doctor again and she raised the Mirtazapine dosage and along with it put me on Promethazine for anxiety and insomnia. It has been only 11 days since i started this combo and I am waiting for full relief. Some days are better than others but i feel like I am tightly wound up all the time. Mornings are especially hard for me with anxiety and dread. The depression is worse than before. Looking back, i see that the symptoms got worse about 6 months before periods stopped. I haven't had a period in 6 months now. Also over the summer for the first time i had hot flushes with very light sweating and night sweats. It is better now may be because of the cooler weather and the Mirtazapine.
Is it possible that the emotional peri symptoms get worse before periods stop completely? Anyone has had similar experience?
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This was me even before menopause symptoms. I would be very depressed, take medication, feel well, stop medication ....... I have organic depression which means that I have to take ADs for Life.
I also have a beta-blocka every day as well as an emergency anti-anxiety drug to swallow when anxiety floors me. So the two illnesses are dealt with by taking appropriate medication. It took me 8-9 months B4 I actually felt "I feel better today" - it was quite a shock at the time (2000).
11 days is too early to look for 'full' relief. But if you are getting some better days then it means that the medication is beginning to ease symptoms. This could be hormonal led or it may be that you require anti-depressive medication and possibly some form of HRT along side. it really can be Trial and Error.
Do you keep a mood/food/symptom diary?
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To answer your question Snoopy I do think symptoms are worse in peri, precisely because hormones are so up and down. I feel happily settled now I'm post meno but then I have found regime that really works for me, but I well remember the awfulness of peri and do sympathise x
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Hi snoopy
I'm hoping that this is true so I know what to blame for what I'm going through
I've had anxiety in the past with out the depression controlled by citilopram and it never stopped me doing anything I even went back to uni at the age of 40
Mine came back with a bang just over 2 years ago. Anxiety depression insomnia and this time the citilopram did nothing I was at docs every week in the end I had to give my job up
I take mirtazapine now alongside venlafaxine and was sort of functioning until last month when I started to feel the symptoms come back. I was still having regular periods but a lot heavier, I missed my last one but this months is on its way
I didn't know there was a connection with anxiety and menopause I don't even know if it is that thats making me worse
A hundred years ago I think I would of been put in an asylum :(
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Probably true, my Gran went into the local 'bin' with what was probably post natal depression :sigh:
Have you considered upping the dose of your anti-depressant? My GP is happy for me to self medicate as necessary in order to control the depression.
Some ladies find that HRT alongside appropriate ADs is useful. It really can be Trial and Error :'(
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Thank you all for your input.
I do keep a journal but not so much related to food. The things i notice with food are, when my blood sugar goes low, which seems to be often nowadays, my anxiety creeps up. So i try to eat something even if i don't feel hungry. Also, if i eat after 7:30 in the evening or have had a big lunch like in a restaurant, i can forget sleep that night. Never used to be like this before Peri. I ate whatever i wanted whenever i wanted and went to bed whenever and still had good sleep. If i didn't, i could take a nap during the day, which is now impossible with anxiety going on almost all the time.
With mood, whenever i am interestingly engaged with something, my anxiety lessens or totally disappears. I work as a teacher and often have to drag myself to work. But once i am with the students and teaching, the anxiety leaves. The minute i am alone, it creeps up again. And i am often alone at home. My interaction with people right now is very platonic, including my husband. He is very understanding and loving and wants to support me. And i feel guilty all the more for just sitting there like a lump of clay with no emotions, except anxiety and depression. My personality has changed a lot, for the worst.
During the day suddenly i will feel so groggy and sleepy out of the blue and after some time it clears up. Anxiety is worst in the mornings when i wake up. I so wish for the nights when i can sleep through without waking up.
I really pray, hope and wish all this pain will end some time. My body doesn't adjust to HRT very well. So i am going to stick to Mirtazapine and Promethazine until i need them. CLKD, you're right. 11 days is too early for full relief. So i just have to wait it out.
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snOOpy - you sound a bit like me. Maybe try eating every 3 hours which is what NAPS recommended when I had sudden, nausea because my body was hungry: now I try to eat B4 it maybe necessary, tuff if that doesn't fit in with others' meal times. I've been known to take my own food stuffs so that I can eat when I need to. Low blood sugar in this case is known to cause anxiety surges. Himself will often ask 'when did you last eat?' when I complain of nausea or not feeling well :-\ ::)
I find that if I interact with others my mood can brighten, might it be an adrenaline surge? Happy hormones? Also, if you haven't eaten enough to fuel your body after teaching, mood and body can take a huge dip. I used to feel SO sick!
If you were diabetic you would take appropriate medication for Life. Why not take what eases your symptoms for as long as you require them, which may be for a long while? Stop thinking short term and you may find that you suddenly feel 'better'. My meds haven't been a cure but they do enable me ;-).
I had to accept that without the above I would never get out of bed. Keep posting! This too will pass.
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Yes CLKD. The first time i took ADs when peri started, i was in a hurry to come off of it and weaned myself off after 6 months when i started feeling a bit better. But this time, i have decided to stick with it. Eating every 3 hours is going to be hard but i will do anything to avoid this horrible anxiety. I wonder if my morning anxiety is because of going without food for so long in the night. Some nights when i suddenly wake up at 1:00 A.M. i will quickly eat a banana and then i can fall asleep. It is a big lifestyle change, but if it helps, i will do it.
I wish i could be a bit more happy for my husband. I was a smiley person most of the time and i don't like myself right now. But I am positive that my smile will come back again. I go through life like a robot doing the routines. It also helps to keep me sane.
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I found keeping a note of what I achieved each day gave me confidence that I wasn't actually sitting all day, doing nowt! Also, from feeling really ill each morning, my feelings in the day improved as I shed each committment.
It's The Change. Which we simply aren't ready for!
My food pack consists of:
bananas
dried fruits and nuts
ginger biscuits
dry crackers
Dextrose tablets
Fruit cake
Custard - from a packet with hot water; soothing
Pancakes - mix can be kept in the fridge a couple of days and made immediately the body is hungry
Energy bars
I have a varied mix of the above in my handbag, car boot, camper van, walking haver-sack thingy, suit-case - and I never share with anyone, it's my emergency ration ;-). Biscuits by the bed is important if we wake to go across the landing/back.
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I find that having a biscuit beside the bed and not laying down too soon can keep reflux symptoms away. Otherwise, I have to reach for the Rennies: 2/3 chewed helps ......... dry or ginger biscuits help.
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Thesea are wonderful tips ladies. I am going to try the 'little and often' eating route today. I usually don't have any breakfast until 10:00am at least as we run a B & B so maybe that is why I feel so crummy in the morning....would make sense. Will report back.xx
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Eat Girl Eat! Don't want you fainting over the breakfast table, not good for trade ;).
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Thank you CLKD for the food tips. I need to be more pro active about this. Last night my sleep was not so good. Struggled to fall asleep and then i was awake at 3:00 A.M. Sleep was poor after that. Which results in a crummy day for me. Having more depression, hopeless, gloom and doom feeling today. Scared of everything. Still went to work and functioned. As the day wore on, felt very down. Hope i can sleep well tonight.
I went for a workout yesterday from 5 to 5:45 P.M. After that it took a long time for my heart to settle down. I wonder if that sabotaged my sleep. I went for the workout after a long time.
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I went for a 40 mins walk last week and felt SO ill after. I haven't walked for months [note to self!]
My anxiety certainly improves as I shed my daily commitments.
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I'm thinking of changing my work out time to a bit earlier in the day. I go to a sport center to do that. And yesterday the trainer grilled us all and we were all worn out and gasping in the end. I felt like throwing up after that. It was too much for my system i think.
After dinner i feel better now. So i think my blood sugar level is going crazy.
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Yes it's a good idea not to do exercise too close to bedtime due to possible over-stimulation (so I'm told) - although a walk would be fine.
By the way those of you that are doing the "eat little and often" remember the best way to stabilise blood sugar levels is to CUT OUT sugar and refined carbs and go for slow release foods and especially more protein. High sugar snacks boost blood sugar in the short term and in an extreme emergency ( I once had to eat half a muesli bar in the middle of my Zumba class due to v low blood sugar - but should have had a bigger breakfast!). High sugar/refined carb foods will spike blood sugar, release insulin, but then it will crash and this can lead to insulin resistance and actually make things worse long term ie perpetuate or exacerbate the problem..
Always eat something energy giving ( but not pure sugar) an hour before intense exercise - but I know it depends on how your metabolism works to some extent and also what your hormones are doing on that particular day.
Hurdity x
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I would never cut out sugar. Little and often saved my Life. Slow release foods and a little of what I fancy ;)
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Himself often says a little of what he fancies would do him good ;D
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Cutting out sugar would be hard for me. i don't overdo on sugar or sugary snacks. In fact i don't have appetite for these snacks anymore. So a little bit of sugar is o.k. for me. Last night i had a hot mug of Horlicks before bed time. And it helped to have a less wakeful night. I woke up at 2:00 A.M but after potty break went back to sleep. Otherwise i am jolted out of sleep at 3:30 and it takes a while to fall asleep.
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What is in Horlicks ? not something I ever took to ........ Ovaltine was the other one, there was a Club apparently ::)
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SnOOpy, parklet, CLKD. I LOVE you ladies. The power of sharing. You all could be me. I actually felt something other than anxiety when I read this thread today. Tears prickled in a good way. I think back to my 20s / 30s I just ' got on' with life. I hate where my head is at the moment. I know what I do (run a B & B) is the worse thing for me as I am alone with my anxious thoughts all day. I am convinved I have early onset dementia at the moment (I went through this about 6 months ago!). I know that it is just Day 14 when I seem to loose it for a few days and think I have something terrible...if I had job with other people I would probably be fine (B & B on market by the way... has been for 18 months). Yes eating helps..just had breakfast (11:55!! Had banana at 7:00am) and feel much better than 15 minutes ago.
Have been thinking of anti-depressants. (Triend HRT..not for me at the moment...still hv regular periods). GP has mentioned Citilopram...a seratonin booster? I take 40mg Proprananol at night since bad insomnia. Ladies am I a bit scared to go down this route but the last 5 years have been crappy with health anxiety if I am honest. What do these meds make you feel like? Do they stop your brain whizzing round my health anxiety 24/7 ? Do they have side effects like some HRT does? Have tried exercise/Mindfullness etc. Advice?
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Hi Rosenath,
I was averse to ADs or any medication 3 1/2 years ago. But when i went into severe insomnia resulting in horrible anxiety over night, i had no choice but to take an AD. I emotionally struggled taking it for many months. I tried HRT, but they were not for me. So my only option was AD. I also had and still sometimes have health anxiety after getting horribly sick on a trip to a tropical country. That was scary. And i still have that fear on a lesser level.
First they tried Citalopram but it was not for me. Then the doc tried Mirtazapine and i am still taking it. My doctor thinks i am more sensitive to the fluctuating hormones than most women. I am also sensitive to lots of medication. So she tries in very low doses with me and raises it carefully after observing how i am reacting to the dosage. Now i am taking 15 mg Mirtazapine with 20 mg Promethazine and later before bed time 10 mg Promethazine. The Pro is sedating.
In the beginning, you will go through an adjustment time with the ADs. Take a couple of weeks off from regular job. But after one or 2 weeks you will start feel better. It might be a slow or quick recovery depending on how your body reacts.
I weaned myself off of it in 2015 and 2016 as i was feeling better. But this year, everything started getting worse again and i went back on it. Coincidentally i haven't had a period for 6 months now. I guess i will be on it until i am well over menopause and my hormones have stabilized. Or even longer. I don't know. I am back on the AD since only 2 weeks. My depression could be better but the anxiety is reducing and the sleep is slowly getting better. I won't go into side effects as each person reacts to meds differently.
So instead of prolonging the suffering, give it a try. If Citalopram is not for you, then your doctor might try another AD. So have some patience. For full effect, it will take 6 to 8 weeks. Mirtazapine helps insomnia, depression and eating disorders all in one. The side effect with most AD is weight gain.
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You are where you are. In 2-3 year's time you may be somewhere else. What's to lose? These medications are designed for specifics but as with many, they often ease other symptoms: this is true across the board of medical knowledge in various specialities apparently.
I have to take ADs for Life. I found that 40mg Propranolol was giving me morning headaches so I split it into breakfast and evening which has helped. Prescribed for me in order to ease anxiety surges. My GP is happy 4 me to self-medicate. I can't remember the AD though unless it's in my hand ::). Some people find that ADs cause them to feel - nowt - but that's never happened to me. I've had nausea. I feel a big hung-over some mornings but the drug enables me to get out of bed every morning as well as giving me a lighter look at the World than previously. I've taken ADs since 1988.
I had a chat with our GP recently who has told me that even if a lady is approaching menopause, if the main symptoms are anxiety/depression, that is what he and the other GPs at the Practice will treat. Apparently experience has shown that other symptoms may then ease and if not, then HRT can be discussed. At our Surgery apparently this is via the Nurse Practitioners who generally have more time available. So once the lady feels less anxious she is encouraged to go back to update on how the drug is working with a list of other symptoms.
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I am really having a hard time today with severe anxiety, depression and drowsiness. The past two days my sleep has been bad. I am still on 15 mg Mirtazapine and Promethazine. All day today i sat on the sofa and surfed on the net. Also have had missing heart beats for the past two days after a long time. it was bad yesterday. Also having lots of egg white discharge after a long time. Its been 6 months since i had a period. I wonder if it is going to come again :-\ i have no motivation or interest in anything. Just thoughts and feelings of doom and gloom and dread. my ears are ringing with tinnitus. That was always a problem but now intensified. Tomorrow a relative is visiting us for 10 days. i am so nervous how i am going to cope like this. this is the third week since i started the Mirtazapine. I feel horrible. :'( When is relief!
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Are any of your symptoms side effects of your medication sn00py?
My friend was on AD's for a long time and they just made her want to go to bed and sleep and she had no sex drive or no real interest in life. I think although they can be helpful for some sufferers, for others they just make things worse. That's my own personal opinion.
I know how you feel about the dread of having a relative visit but maybe it will distract you and you won't be able to focus so much on all your symptoms?
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I would argue that your friend had depression that took over. Prior to medication I was exactly that: in bed, too fearful to move, unable to summon any energy in order to get out and as for washing and dressing :'(. And why, if she felt like that, did she continue 'for years'? Stop comparing yourselves with others who may not have told the 'whole' story!
If the relative is close, explain that you have felt unwell recently which means you are sleeping a lot. Is he/she amiable enough to suggest that he/she goes out and about? I hated anyone staying overnight :-\ ........ I hated having to justify myself. I hated the change in routine.
Mirtazapine has good results usually. I've known a couple of people who found this particular drug more useful than others. But added anxiety about a visitor may well over-ride any benefits right now :-\
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Hi All,
Thank you for your prompt replies. Brought tears to my eyes.
I have had mirtazapine 2 years ago and it helped me. I have started taking it again as things got worse. My doctor will come back only on the 26th. I need to talk to her. And may be raise the dosage. Meanwhile she told me to take a Promethazine for emergency if anxiety gets too much to handle instead of taking a benzo. That's what i just did.
On the other hand, it could be that my body is still adjusting to the AD. I took 2 Promethazine last night instead of one. May be that made me drowsy and lousy all day.
I need to stick to the original routine instead of experimenting. Also, today is my day off. And whenever i am home alone, i don't do well at all. Praying and hoping that the weekend will go eventless.
The relative is my husband's niece, a young thing. Hubby has taken off next week and will take her around. While i go to work. I'm glad i don't have to travel.
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So now that you have worked out the route you took, i.e. added an extra dose, do you feel 'better'? I know when I don't take any meds. at night, I have to keep reminding myself the next day that my muggy head is that, muggy - because my brain is missing the usually 'hit'. It really does take effort for me to not go into anxiety mode ::). As for being alone, I can kind of relate: when DH is going to do some hobbies and I am left here, my anxiety may rise and I feel quite ill. Again, a change of routine! Other times I'm fine, I get on with gardening, clearing the ponds, pruning ......... if only I knew how I would feel I wouldn't be anxious [clear as mud?]
Glad that your Husband will be in charge of the niece. Does it mean that you need to cook for them or will eating out be more appropriate?
Keep letting us know how you are? The brain doesn't get where it is suddenly so any medication that it requires may take a while to improve it. It is an organ often forgotten ;-)
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The Promethazine curbed my anxiety a lot. It just makes me more tired as it is an anti histamine. I am still on 15 mg Mirtazapine. Feeling a bit nauseous today too. Had a ginger candy and it helped the nausea.
I cook almost everyday anyway. So it will be a mix of eating outside and cooking at home.
I hope tomorrow will be a better day. This anxiety just wears me out.
I looked through my journal when i took Mirt for the first time. It had taken a couple of months for me to feel better. And I had more side effects then than now.
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Hi sn00py
I missed the beginning of your post when you mentioned your periods and trying BHRT - and just picked up on the eating and sugar part! If you didn't suffer anxiety depression before you bega the menopause journey and there is no other reason for you to feel this way then it is likely due to your hormones and especially oestrogen depletion.
Low oestrogen is a strong element in anxiety/depression around this time - and as CLKD mentioned you might find this helpful (HRT) - and I am thinking perhaps more so at this point. I am wondering which type you tried and at what point in your peri-menopause? I ask because I didn't start HRT until I was late peri-menopause having not had a period for 5 months and the previous one a while before that. It was the best thing that I did and lifted my mood permanently so that for a while I felt completely back to where I was. I'm still feeling fine 10 years later (a bit older and more tired as I'm now mid 60's ::) )
BHRT - if you mean the private treatment of compounded hormones in creams or lozenges - is not recommended anyway by the medical profession so you might have been given a weird combo that hasn't been shown to work well in menopausal women. You can get these hormones - body-identical ones (estradiol and progesterone) - on NHS so might be worth revisiting this option, especially if you are under the average age of menopause of 51/52 ( sorry not sure of your age)?
Just a thought anyway :)
Hurdity x
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Hi SnOOpy sorry to hear that you're struggling at the moment hopefully you will settle soon.
I too am on mirtazapine after trying so many HRT regimes unsuccessfully. It really was a life saver for me ,I've got my life back again thank goodness ! Wasted a year of my life trying this that and other ! So hang on things can and do get better. ;)
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Snoop I am with you. I have struggled the last few days. I feel wound up and just can't get perspective on things; convinced I have early on-set dementia! been doing the on-line tests! Feel I can't go back to any of the GPs as they have seen this all before with me. But do know you are not alone with this ; we are ' normal' perimenopausal women. Eating does help me, I have just had a coffee and a croissant and feel my mood lift a little. One step at a time. It's OK to cry, if fact after a good blub yesterday I felt a little better. You will cope, your not going to die, just concentrate on the next 12 hours. I am giving you all the advice I don't take myself!!
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Ginger is good! :)
I feel absolutely exhausted after panic attacks :'( (my first at age 3). I feel worn out trying to hide my feelings from others so I don't mix as often as I used to do. My husband cooks, mostly from fresh as I am a recovering anorexic and would never consider cooking ....... I can, but don't. When really ill I can't go into the kitchen!
I can't answer the original query though, as I was already on medication.
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Hi All,
The visit from my niece is going well. The first night i had such high anxiety and i couldn't sleep and ended up with horrible anxiety the next day. I gave in and took a tiny bit Lorazepam and it helped.
Yesterday was great. I took half Zopiclone and had a good sleep. We went to France and had a lovely time. The weather was perfect. I felt great. :sunny:
But today, in spite of good sleep, had anxiety all day and still do. I woke up with anxiety and bad stomach. I don't know why i am up and down like this. But the good day yesterday was after a long time.
Hurdity, no i didn't have anxiety before peri. Looking back i think i had some depression for a couple of years, but i thought it was because of my dissatisfaction with my job. I changed jobs now and i like it. But still have anxiety and depression. I tried Estrogen and progesterone cream, but all my symptoms worsened. I was 51 when i tried it. Now I am 54. My gynae has given me Estrogel cream and Progesterone capsules. But because of past experience I am not taking it. I am not in the UK. So am not familiar with HRT there.
This is the end of 3rd week since i started 15 mg Mirtazapine with 30 mg Promethazine. I know not everyone reacts the same way to ADs. But is it normal to still have anxiety on Mirtazapine? My mood is getting better. But the anxiety is the worst symptom now. I get it worse in the mornings when i wake up. Also my stomach is so sensitive. I have to be so careful what i eat. And when i eat. I have a stressful day tomorrow at work. I hope i can sleep tonight and function tomorrow. I am getting so tired of this anxiety, both mentally and physically. I have never felt like this in my whole life, with no confidence and constant anxiety. I feel like i am a totally different person. Too sad that i have lost my old (good) self :'(
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Anxiety is dreadful. It almost killed me. I have a beta-blocka morning and night as well as the Lorazepam as an emergency drug. Have you tried deep breathing? It helped me for a while, also Rescue Remedy mouth spray.
How is your diet, eating every 3 hours can ease anxiety surges. If you have a bathroom visit in the night maybe have a ginger biscuit to munch B4 going back to sleep. That hormone Cortisol has a lot of answer for >:(, it's the one that gets us out of bed in the morning apparently but I wish it were more gentle!!
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Hi!
I have survived 10 days of our niece's visit with and without anxiety, with and without depression. It's amazing how much the human body and mind can take. My times of anxiety with depression were more than without them. She is leaving on Tuesday. On the whole had a good time. Wish my health had been better. I would have enjoyed her visit more. When i had anxiety, i was mostly quiet. Luckily, our niece is also a very quiet person. So it was not that stressful. Only my DH wanted her to talk as he talks a lot. But poor thing, she didn't know what to say. Still has a lot of growing up to do.
Last night sleep was poor, in spite of meds. Finally took half Zopiclone at 2:40 A.M. and slept. Should have taken it earlier. Having horrible anxiety all day, which is quite tiring. And sooooo groggy. Trying to cope with Promethazine. I have noticed that just before my anxiety ramps up, i get very sleepy. Before, if i got sleepy, i just laid down and slept. Now i am not able to do that because of the stupid anxiety. I have nothing to be anxious or depressed about.
Does anyone know of a good drug against anxiety apart from Benzos? The 15 mg Mirtazapine and Promethazine are not cutting it for me. Raising the Mirt makes me a zombie. I am thinking of trying a quarter of Mirt in the morning when i get up with anxiety. But i have to try it on a day off from work. I am soooo tired both physically and mentally.
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I am tired right now, due to busy, involved, deep dreams in the night. When I sleep in the day it is refreshing.
I used Valium 5mg as necessary with success during the 1990s. Now my GP has given me an emergency drug for when the anxiety floors me.
I have in the past used an anti-histamine when I need deep sleep - Note to Self ;-)
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Thank you CLKD for the tip. I notice that when i struggle with anxiety all day, i have a hard time falling asleep even if i take Mirtazapine. And i really don't want to take Benzos.
Sorry that your night was not so good. I hope you feel better soon.
I just took my dose of mirt and 1 Promethazine and starting to feel better. When i have a bad day, i crave for the mirt and can hardly wait for evening to come. I am thinking of going to my doctor again. It is now the 4th week and i am thinking the mirt should have kicked in and given me sustained relief from anxiety.
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Maybe a hike in dose ?
In answer to the original query - I really don't know :-\