Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Peroxideblader on August 21, 2017, 10:52:54 AM
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Hello well eventually I started my femoston 1/10 a week ago I'm so scared of the side effects especially when I start prog part but I just wondered how long I give it to see if it helps with my issues mainly inability to get to sleep.
I must admit I feel more tired at night and one night I went to bed at 1am and was asleep by 2 which got my hopes up but since then no difference at all. I'm still getting red hot and sweaty but I'm just finishing a bad cold but everyone I talk to on femoston says their sweats went within the first few days.
I guess I'm just so desperate for sleep and I'd hoped it would help and I will give it a month but after a month should I try a different hrt if my sleep is no better? Thanks ( no major sude effects yet just tingly limbs and nausea last night )
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Hello
I think it took a couple of weeks to really kick in when I started to take it. It was very gradual too - just noticed that some things got a little bit better. when I looked back (kept a diary). I felt fine on the prog part, I was nervous too as Elleste Duet prog gave me headaches. Keep going!
RR xx
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Thank you for the positive feedback I'm just scared as I always seem to get extreme sude effects off everything and I had all my hopes pinned on hrt to sort my insomnia out. Fingers crossed
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Patch and gel HRT work fastest I believe as they don't have to be metabolised by the liver and go straight into the bloodstream. I would think that it will be a month or so before you really begin to feel the benefit but everyone is different.
Taz x
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I took it after Elleste which made my joint pains much worse. I was better with this after a couple of weeks, and for the first 2 months then it went downhill on the third month and I changed to Femeston (without completing the progestogen phase - I got told off for this :-X ) The doctor said I should up the oestrogen but I wanted to try another progestogen, so we agreed to try the Femeston 1/10 - she said it is better to change one thing at a time.
I can't remember any big problems and the progestogen phase was fine - I get some breast changes in this part but they are subtle. I wish I had kept a diary. ::)
Overall, there was a change, but not much, so I tried 2/10 and am much more settled. It is hard to describe, but I feel more like myself and get less wound up, and slept better. The prescribing nurse did not think these were symptoms, so I told her my joints and bladder were calmer. Which they are.
In retrospect I think the doctor was right as I had a blood test that came back with low vit D and taking this every day seems to have helped my joints.
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I don't want to go to a higher dose if I can help it not yet anyway bit if it doesn't help maybe I will try the oestrogel gel and separate progesterone but tablet is much easier for me as I have overactive bladder so if I put the progesterone pill up my foo foo it wouldn't stay up more than an hour max as I wee every hour day and night hence why I'm trying the tablet first
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Just a point - the pessary will be inserted much further up than your urethra so shouldn't be affected by emptying your bladder
Taz x :)
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Thank you i didn't realise that I thought when I read about using it as a pessary it says to take before bed then you have a good hours where it can stay up there???
But I don't know why I'm asking as I'm giving femoston a good month and surely if that doesn't help with getting to sleep then any form of hrt won't either ?? Will it?
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In some women Utrogestan can have a slight sedative effect but, then again, in others it can cause insomnia apparently. Give the Femoston few more weeks to see if it does help with sleeping.
Taz x
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I am giving it a month but so far zero difference in anyway which is so upsetting as I'd pinned such hope on it being hormonal and hrt would help this was my last resort. I can't tell if it's helped with the heat flashes as I'm feverish still with this cold and chest infection and my mood is still low but that's due to lack of sleep still and being so upset at it not helping.
If femoston doesn't help my insomnia will it be worth trying oestrogel and separate progesterone or is all the same at having no effect.
If this insbility to get to sleep isn't peri then I'm truly lost and I give up
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The gel and progesterone is giving me terrible insomnia. I haven't slept a full night since I started the,pm. My sleeping was great before
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Oh no don't tell me that lol...saying that I can't see how 4 years of this horrendous lack of sleep can get worse!! It's my only reason for starting hrt it's the one issue that is destroying my sanity and health..are you persevering then or changing to a different hrt ?
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HRT has helped me sleep but only because it stopped the hot sweats and flushes which were happening every twenty minutes. I don't find that it makes a difference to the type of sleep i.e. I still wake every fifty minutes or so but get back to sleep quickly. I've only had one full night's sleep since 2007 though so I'm pretty used to it.
How much sleep are you getting? I feel for you as it can make life very dreary and struggling to get through the day without dozing off must be hard!
Taz x
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Taz I've had this for 4 years only every other day til 2 years ago then just stopped being able to get to sleep I eventually fall asleep around 4am sometimes 5 and up at 830 luckily no earlier but it's just wrecked my life my health my relationship my job you name it because it's made my depression so much worse as the time between 11pm and 5am are so lonely and I get very upset but ready to put the false happy face on for next day. I literally have tried everything you name it and nothing works . Medically it's DSPD delayed sleep phase disorder and in USA it's classed as a disability due to the effect nightly sleep deprivation has on you. My last hope was hrt but as everything else I've tried I don't think it'll make any difference. I do sweat in bed and I'm red hot but it's more a body and mind that just revs up and won't sleep. Unfortunately I can't sleep any other time either or catnap it's like my body has no off switch
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If I give this a month and it continues to make no difference to my overheating and stress and insomnia would people advise I change hrt or does it point to the fact these issue are not menopause related which is my worst scenario. After all I only have anxiety and rattiness which could just be sleep deprivation and the overheating which doesn't come in flashes it's a hot sweaty hour or so not few minutes. And my periods being irregular I. E a week or 2 late and I missed a month. I'm so stuck please help
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I have had phases where I just fail to drop off - I seem to stay in a state of almost dropping off, but it doesn't quite happen until I crash out just before the alarm goes. For me it has got better with hrt. I don't think it ever lasted more than 3 nights on the trot, but it is horrible.
I find drinking plenty water during the day, and keeping a glass of water by the bed helps with the overheating. I am not sure if you overheat because you are not asleep, or you are not asleep because you overheat. Anyway, it helps with the bladder and night time weeing too, and amazingly can reduce the number of times you need to wee in the night.
I have two brothers who sleep badly and they both listen to the radio at night - one has a pillow radio. We have also tried this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4b5JlqFvkXb3FhHCM2MjqG9/prepare-for-an-8-hour-lullaby but not sure it actually worked. It was interesting, though.
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Thanks dahliagirl...I could cope if I had a few nights like I do but it's every single night...no respite apart from a sleeping tablet once a week . I do have water but a therapist told me to get up and read if I can't sleep so I drink when I'm up for my hourly get up. I've tried music cbt relaxation cds and apps but if anything they wake me up I need total silence hence why I wear earplugs ...I really hoped hrt would help but 10 days in there's no change..but should I expect results yet??
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10 days isn't very long in the land of HRT. You're right to say give it a month and then look you see if things have improved. They may not be all solved but moving in the right direction if you know what I mean. I found the improvements were subtle and continued to get better over time. Easier said than done when you're sleep deprived though. X
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I've just stopped the gel, the estrogen and am just using the Utrogestan and all the insomnia, racing heart, night sweats, hot flushes have gone. Too much estrogen seemed to cause as many problems for me as solve them
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Thanks roadrunner..if it was any of the other symptoms I could cope with slow improvement but after 4 years of sleep starvation I'm at my wits end and a month feels like a year to wait.
Katia...so glad your insomnia has gone but was it the same as mine the inability to get to sleep or early waking due to sweats? And I didn't know you could take progesterone only without the oestrogen?
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Have you taken this test? http://www.nhs.uk/Tools/Pages/Sleep-self-assessment.aspx. Might give you something else to try?
Taz x
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Also if you are passing urine every hour then something is wrong! You may not be drinking enough which will cause the kidneys to work more = the need to pee more often. Your Practice Nurse could arrange an output/input chart which means measuring everything you drink and pass and the time of each.
Time to see a Urologist maybe?
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Already seen consultant in urology done the pee test diagnosed with overactive bladder tried botox in my bladder twice but hardly made a difference and had to self cathertize for months so it's just another ailment to add to my list.
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Haven't you been offered any further treatment though and were you seen under the care of a pelvic floor specialist? There are other treatments to try so don't give up. It's not fair that you should be given the botox and then, when that failed, were just left to get on with it. The urology department is usually the first port of call followed by the urinary continence team. I hope you get some more help soon!
Taz x
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Taz2 that's the NHS for you in my opinion it's that and nothing after. As it's not leakage it's frequency there aren't as many options mainly botox and a relaxing pill for the detruser muscle at the Base of your bladder to stop it vibrating and signalling you need a wee so often.that didn't work paralysing it didn't and pill for Ms that works on stabilising did nothing. So that's it no cure bye bye never mind. I live with it now it's part of life..can't go anywhere without knowing there's a loo and nightly wee trips are the norm. Sad but true heh ho.
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Peroxidebladder - it was waking at between 1am and 3am and like ping wide awake and then struggling to get back to sleep. Night sweats have gone since I stopped the gel too. It's so strange as estrogen is supposed to help sweats, burning and flushes.
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Katia are you able to stop oestrogen and just use utrogestan as that's my issue I wondered if my oestrogen levels are OK which is why the 2 weeks on it have brought on this anxiety and bleakness....did you get advised by a doctor to cut out the oestrogen and just use utrogestan?? And when do you take it what days etc thanks
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I stopped both of them for about 8 days for blood tests. I felt so much better, all hot flushes and night sweats went. Looking back, they came with HRT. I'd only been on it about 2 months. I decided to continue to stop. After a few days I had crazy hunger and a spot, really greasy skin and th VA was a problem so I started the gel. Back came all the problems. I stopped the gel and decided to try the U on it's own. It's been fine so far. I take it orally, every night. I've added back a bit of gel - about half pump. Any more and I seem to burn and have night sweats. I spoke to the consultant yesterday. There's no problem taking P without E, but I do need some E, just not the gel. I guess it's a bit like taking the mini pill.
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That's good news as it's the oestrogen that's made me ill. I'm going to start with one pump oestr8gel and 100mg of utrogestan days 15 to 26 I believe and see how I get on but my gp whose never heard of this hrt regime said if I take 100mg progesterone it has to be days 1 to 15????
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Peroxidebladder -
In a review by Prior, oral micronized progesterone (OMP) appears to effectively treats vasomotor symptoms and sleep disturbances, and monotherapy is potentially safe for symptomatic menopause.
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Katia I'm having a dumb blonde day....are you saying the utrogestan shoukd sort out sleep issues on its own ??
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That's good news as it's the oestrogen that's made me ill. I'm going to start with one pump oestr8gel and 100mg of utrogestan days 15 to 26 I believe and see how I get on but my gp whose never heard of this hrt regime said if I take 100mg progesterone it has to be days 1 to 15????
Not sure what your doc meant? The licensed dose for utrogestan as part of a cyclical HRT regime is 200 mg x 12 days per 28 day cycle. For continuous combined HRT who are post-meno it is either 100 mg continuously every day (or the licensed dose of Days 1-25 of each 28 day cycle. This is to allow a bleed if necessary although many women just take it continuously. There can be breakthrough bleeding on higher doses of oestrogen and when taken orally at this dose. Some women are prescribed the days 1-25 x 100 mg in late peri-menopause - and the bleed (if any) should happen during the days off.
If you are having pretty regular periods some gynaes prescribe less than the licensed prog dose on the understanding that you would be ovulating and therefore clearing the lining including any build-up from additional oestrogen (from the gel).
If you were given progesterone on its own this would usually be due to bleeding problems - although normally stronger progestogens such as norethisterone are given. Progesterone itself is a sedative ( but depressive in large doses) so could help with sleep - although with me it affects the bladder so when I am taking the Utrogestan I get up more in the night not less but also wake up much more tired (feeling hung-over in fact!).
Hurdity x
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I blamed the Utro for insomnia, it turned out to be the gel. That what I pasted was from a study. Pop it in Google and the study should come up.
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Hurdity I am totally confused now...so I'm peri still getting periods albeit every 5 or 6 weeks and missed one totally in may so I should be on 200mg progesterone but I've read on here pages and pages and many people start on 100mg as 200mg is a high dose at first and has the worst side effects.
So at my current stage what do you recommend I start on next month and which days..( she's prescribed me oestrogel 1 or 2 pumps everyday and 100mg utrogestan days 15-26 but this is on my comments...what dose is wrong??
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Katia I'll look the survey up but have you found your sleep improved on utrogestan and how many days and dose do you take it thanks
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Peroxidebladder, i had no problems sleeping before HRT. Terrible sleep with the HRT. As soon as I stopped the gel my sleep went back to normal. I was taking it 25 days and 100mg. The consultant had left it into me, but as I thought it was the problem I didn't want the 200mg. I do need some e though as I have burning vagina, but anything more than 1/2 pump of gel give me symptoms. So strange how the gel can also cause the symptoms it's supposed to help.
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Thanks katia for the clarification...I must admit I wasn't expecting to feel so extremely low and depressed on just the oestrogen part but now I've been off femoston for two days I feel much better and no where near as down so it was the oestrogen....but this is the one health issue that can't be tested for levels as I know they are unreliable at peri stage...so I don't know if I've got too much oestrogen already or not or too much or too little progesterone so I'm flying blind here....it's harder too because my symptoms of peri are not the usual standard..I can't get to sleep I'm very anxious and my periods are usually a week late and lost two months period early this year but I don't have hot flashes now just generally overheat for hours then wake up in the morning in a soaked bed....my dread is it's not menopause at all but all other health checks have revealed anything....
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Hurdity...not sure if you saw my previous reply but what would you recommend I start with regime wise then...stick to the NHS regime of 1 or 2 pumps of oestrogel daily and 200mg utrogestan for days 15-26 as if that's the case I need to get my prescription changed....
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Peroxideblader, I'm the same. I'm peri and my hormones are all over the place. It's hard to tell what's the HRT and what's our own hormones. The gel didn't work for me from the start, I had dreadful meno symptoms, caused by the gel, but it's taken me 2 months for the gynae to actually listen. I'm trying something different so we'll see. My skin seems to be slightly redder with it, but other than than no immediate reactions. I think we have to try a few. I'm also contemplating if this doesn't work out going back on the pill for 6 months and then trying again.
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Oh no don't say that..knowing my luck the gel will be bad for me too..can I ask what you're using now then ?? Thanks
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Premarin. It's only been a couple of weeks, but so far, so good. It's the pregnant horse urine instead of the yam, so it's different The gel seems to work well for a lot, just not for me. I knew right away it wasn't good for me, but the consultant said to perservere. I did against my better judgement. I don't know if it was the transdermal delivery that was the problem.
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So pleased to hear that let's hope it long continues..we're all so different let's face it..I mean I went suicidal on just oestrigen the one that supposedly makes you feel great...I'm sure hrt is not for me I think the oestrogen in any hrt will affect me which doesn't make sense as it's naturally in our bodies but I'm abnormal anyway lol
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Peroxideblader, I did fine on the synthetic in the pill, then not on the gel which is bio identical and then ok on conjugated, which is more like synthetic again. Our bodies are all different. Even bio identical isn't identical. The only thing I'm finding so far is I'm getting a few spots. I hope they clear, otherwise I'll be needing to look for another.