Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => New Members => Topic started by: Roseneath on August 01, 2017, 04:09:06 PM
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I am wondering whether or not to come off HRT after having been on it for 3 months (Ellestre Duet 1mg combined). I am 47 , period regular but cycles vary widely (22 to 30 days). No hot flushes. My main problem was anxiety which culminated after an upsetting family event in me not sleeping for 5 nights straight and then two weeks of insommnia....awful time. Have seen several doctors and been put on Propronanol (still taking), sleeping pills (not taking anymore)...had basic bloods 6 months ago and OK. The thing is all the info seems to say HRT is for flushes / night sweats / dryness / libido and people who have skipped periods...I have had none of that. First 6 weeks I felt better on HRT but last 4 the anxiety / brain fog has returned..very bad in the last few days. Also periods have been MUCH heavier since HRT with a few clots that freaked me out. Phoned doc & she says it is basically my call. I had no blood hormone tests before I went on HRT....was told they are just a glimpse so not representative. Should I push for hormone tests over a month or just quit the HRT ? Feel like I'm just desperate to feel ' normal' again. So many of these stories resonate with me but the docs just don't seem to have a peri-menopause strategy !
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I take Propranlol: 20mg night and 20mg morning: for anxiety as well as an anti-depressant plus I have an emergency drug 'as necessary'. How was anxiety prior to the 'event'? Sometimes hormones can cause anxiety during The Change and sometimes HRT can help.
Blood tests are reliably un-reliable at this time of Life ::)
It can take 4-6 months to notice benefit from either HRT or ADs etc.. If you can tolerate the HRT I would stick with it a little longer to C if you notice benefit. Some find keeping a mood/food/symptom diary useful too.
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I agree with CLKD - try & stay with it for 6 months as things may well settle down - alternatively if things don't settle then try a different type of HRT, you'd be surprised what a difference they can make.
Hope things settle for you soon.
Cazikins x
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Great advice. Important question. How do you put those cute photos on your profiles?
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Press your name and go to 'profile' and follow ......... 'choose your avatar' ........ press go and see what happens ???
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CLKD
When you say emergency anxiety drug are you talking about diazepam? I was prescribed them when all this started and have always been too scared to take them!
WMLB
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Diazepam was a real help to me whilst I was trying to find a Hrt regime to suit me. I only used them on a need to basis.
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I was prescribed diazapam by an old doc at the hospital when I had 4 days of not sleeping. Took them twice but found the effect only lasted for an hour or two at most.
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I was thinking of taking them in the evening to take the edge off and help with my sleep.
WMLB
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I have found proprananol great for nighttime anxiety. When I had the awful insommnia it was proprananol that got me off the heavy duty sleeping tabs. I just take 4mg before bed. I found the diazapam made me ultra happy / smiley (I felt like when I imagine ' drugs' are like) but not really sleepy or relaxed. I used it twice when I felt I couldn't get through the day mid insommnia. Camomile tea is good too.
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Do you mean 40mg propranolol at night time, I have these and think I might pop one tonight and hope I sleep through.
WMLB
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Hope you slept OK. I had my first rubbish nights sleep for ages! Too hot, felt buzzy, weird dreams. Had a row with hubby at 2am (he is a menopause denier.....thinks we an just over ride it mind ove matter....) so that didin't help. Wish there was a home hormone testing kit as I am convinced all these things are just related to changes.
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Hi Roseneath - sorry to hear about your husband - not a good time for a row! There is a section somewhere on here called "Advice for Husbands". Try "The Man Shed" here https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/manshed.php - maybe print it off for him!
If your cycles are varying widely and this is new for you, then this is an indication of the early peri-menopausal transition - according to the classification (which gives the general pattern that most women follow). It isn't necessary to skip periods as such. This, combined with your age and symptoms is sufficient for doctors to diagnose peri-menopause. For some women, often pms symptoms worsen before hot flushes begin and then doctors start women on ADs or prop... as you have been given - when HRT or even the CCP would be more appropriate. The hormonal fluctuations of peri-menopause mean that women may cope less well with life stresses than otherwise.
The other thing is some women don't get on well with the progestogen in that HRT type - so if things don't improve - especially during the second part of the pack - then this could be partly to blame and a different HRT might help. Femoston is better tolerated judging by reports on here.
Other options (to reduce the mood swings) are the CCP - there are two types that have a mild oestrogen (estradiol - same as in HRT) but will at least control your cycle so hopefully reduce the hormonal anxiety. They are QLAIRA and ZOELY. This would last you through some of the transition and then you could transfer to HRT at approx 50 or so. They should also limit the bleeding.
Hope you manage to get some sleep soon.
Hurdity x
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Thank you so much for your wise words Hurdity. My husband and I are like chalk and cheese so it is never dull...I think it scares him when I am not happy, organised old me; he says I am the glue that keeps the family together. Problem is at bad times this just feels like pressure not to be ' weak' - let alone have the odd nap / cry! I got a call back today from the GP and wa told it's best to quit the Ellestre Duet if it might be causing bad symptoms I didn't previously have....so I am going solo. He thought the dizzy/low mood/heavy periods of the last 4 weeks were side effetcs. Will be interesting if things get better or worse!
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Roseneath - which dose of Valium were you prescribed? It's used as a relaxant in many cases for people who suffer intense back pain, as a pre-med and for easing anxiety. I took it the evening B4 an event that I had to attend - for years, during the 1990s - 5mg and 5mg during the next day if necessary. Now I have another drug to grab when anxiety over-whelms me but can't remember the name ::) but 1mg and I'm asleep within minutes or feeling better within 25-40 mins..
As for your husband - if mine ever hinted that anything is mind over matter he would be out the door :kick:. Does your husband think that about diabetes, heart disease, indigestion ........... >:(
I take 20mg Propranolol at night: but not too close to bedtime or I get vicious reflux >:( : and 20mg in the morning because I had early morning headaches on 40mg at night ::)
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Clkd can you let me know what the 1mg tablet is that puts you to sleep as you know I have zopiclone which I take every 6th night but the ones in between forget it..he won't give me valium ever...thanks
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I started with zopiclone and then tried zolpidem. Both only gave me 2-3 hours sleep at best then a few nights nothing. A different doctor advised me to switch to the 'old fashioned' pill Nitrazapam which is one of the ' Benzoates' sleeping pill. (He said the Z drugs are tried first becasue they are less addictive. I think also the Benzoates have a reputation of being over used in the USA on a regular basis so people just take one every night for years - so basically the have to be used responsibly as a short term fix). For me it was great as I was exhausted. Slept for 6 hours straight the first night...bliss after two awful weeks. I took 2 tabs for about 4-5 days to get my sleep bank up then over about 3 weeks started to cut back slowly e.g. Take 1.5 tabs for 3 days, then 1 for a day, then 1.5 for 3 days then reduce from 1 tab. He said not to be worried about having a night where you up the dose again or if you have a day where you must sleep. Over about 3 weeks I was down to 0.5 tab .. I think by this stage I just felt I needed SOMETHING at night...was almost a placebo effect. So started taking my 40mg Proprananol (Anxiety) at night rather than morning and stopped with the Nitrazapam. I have had a couple of more patchy nights since but nothing like the run of insommnia so the Nitrazapam was the right thing for me at the time. Also don't touch caffeine after midday now and sleep MUCH better with no booze. I think Anxiety about sleeping played a large part, plus maybe hormones and I had a big family bust up 6 weeks earlier which was preying on my mind. I never thought it would pass at the time but it did.
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Roseneath - Elleste nearly killed me. Literally. I was so anxious and depressed on it. The worst anxiety I have ever suffered. Made me a completely different person. I couldn't believe the GP I saw this week told me I should go back on it as I had no choice other than them or the patches I've been using that haven't caused me to have mental meltdowns.
Come off them and try something else.
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I think it's Lorazepam? 1mg works within 20-40 mins. and calms me. If I am particularly anxious it sends me to sleep which allows my body and head to relax.
I have used Kwells or an anti-histamine for a good night's sleep. Because I know they work I don't need to use 'more' than is necessary. Lavender pillows supposedly work too ::).
Relaxation therapy has been useful for me too ........ I started a thread about this but it has probably disppeared >:(. Good exercise regime is also good, VitD and brisk walking or swimming have helped.
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Thanks clkd....already exercise and no caffeine and lavender and essential oils are lovely but make no difference to getting to sleep?..I have tried the antihistamines even bought some from abroad on recommendation but they just make be feel dizzy and my restless legs go through the roof...I've got delayed sleep phase disorder though that isn't affected by warm bath calming music dark room etc....anything with a 'pam ' At the end my doctors won't prescribe sadly but it was worth an ask...😔
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You're welcome
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Do you sleep better on holiday Peroxibladder? I had a terrible week of not sleeping. I had a week away and from Day 1 I slept much better. I think a lot of the anxiety for me is assocaited with feeling terrible in the house so when I get away all that just sheds away.
( I work from home so that dosn't help).
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Thank you so much for your wise words Hurdity. My husband and I are like chalk and cheese so it is never dull...I think it scares him when I am not happy, organised old me; he says I am the glue that keeps the family together. Problem is at bad times this just feels like pressure not to be ' weak' - let alone have the odd nap / cry! I got a call back today from the GP and wa told it's best to quit the Ellestre Duet if it might be causing bad symptoms I didn't previously have....so I am going solo. He thought the dizzy/low mood/heavy periods of the last 4 weeks were side effetcs. Will be interesting if things get better or worse!
You mean your doc has not suggested anything else instead? It may well have been the Elleste causing additional side effects but there are other alternatives like I suggested - better to try a different HRT than all the other meds - if it is hormones causing your symptoms? Do consider other possibilities and the other suggestions re Femoston or the CCP types I mentioned?
Sounds like you would benefit from doing something away from the house regularly - perhaps go for a daily walk after you've finished your work from home - to clear your head, or maybe an exercise class or the gym or something like that - to help reduce your stress and anxiety, and improve your feelings of well-being?
I hope things improve for you soon anyway :)
Hurdity x
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Roseneath - Elleste nearly killed me. Literally. I was so anxious and depressed on it. The worst anxiety I have ever suffered. Made me a completely different person. I couldn't believe the GP I saw this week told me I should go back on it as I had no choice other than them or the patches I've been using that haven't caused me to have mental meltdowns.
Come off them and try something else.
(First time I've used quote so I hope I'm using it in the right way). How long did it take for you to feel better once you came off it Onion Relish? I'm two days off and already feel brighter and less foggy. I stopped taking them on day 2 of my period (co-incidentally) so it will be interesting to see if the same symptoms occur in 4 weeks as that will suggest it is my natural hormone system causing the upset. It took almost 3 months on Elleste for me to feel so bad; first 6 weeks was fine - no different. I was only put on it for Insomnia so after reading this excellent forum think I should have done more research into different options as per Hurditys wise mail. I always feel a bit like a school girl (47 year old one!) in the doctors office though.
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Hurdity
I was put on Elleste Solo 2mg a week ago and I've had the worst anxiety ever this week and just feel awful. Spoke with meno dr on Friday and she suggested I either try and ride it out or change to Estradot patches. I know you are on the Estradot patches and wondered what your thoughts are on this?
WMLB
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How does everyone get their Gp to change their HRt? I've asked several times and have been refused. My sleep is appalling!
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It seems that sleep problems become more apparent at this stage of life,Meno might just be coincidental ! My DH who could always sleep for England has started to suffer insomnia last few months for no good reason,certainly not menopause !😁
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Poppy - ask your GP for a referral to a Gynaecologist who understands menopause or to a Menopause Clinic in your area? Or see your Practice or Prescribing Nurse? If you have a Chemist close by, make an appt. with the Pharmacist to discuss various types of HRT as well as who is the best surgery at supporting menopausal women.
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My advice for when your gp refuses to change your hrt is to research it yourself, tell them the specific hrt you have in mind. Then they can either agree to prescribe or get info from another gp/gynaecologist. Usually their refusal or reluctance to change hrt is because they don't have the knowledge or experience
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Hurdity
I was put on Elleste Solo 2mg a week ago and I've had the worst anxiety ever this week and just feel awful. Spoke with meno dr on Friday and she suggested I either try and ride it out or change to Estradot patches. I know you are on the Estradot patches and wondered what your thoughts are on this?
WMLB
Hi Wantmylifeback - I've never taken tablet HRT so can't comment on the comparison except that transdermal HRT should give you more of a stable dose of oestrogen than tablets. I would swear by my Estradot patches and have never experienced any unexpected anxiety when using them - (other than my normal worries that I've always had - being a worrier by nature!). I presume you are post-menopausal and have no uterus - maybe ovaries - hence the oestrogen only? However if you started straight away on elleste 2 mg from no HRT, that is quite a high dose (depending where you are in menopause) so it could just be your body getting used to having oestrogen again. It is after all a stimulating hormone - and is associated with feeling good and contributes to our well-being. Suddenly increasing the dose by tablet may need some acclimatisation so perhaps give it a few weeks before deciding whether it's for you or not?
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity
I am peri and have a mirena coil. I was on BCP and was getting on well with it but was taken off due to having migraine with aura (someone didn't read my notes!). I'm quite confused with everything, the combined pill seemed to balance me and I had no anxiety, but they will absolutely not allow me to continue.
Any thoughts gratefully received
WMLB
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Ah I see. Well if you have a tendency to hormonal migraines then transdermal HRT is definitely the preferred route - so depending how you feel over the next few days with the tablet oestrogen, might be worth trying the Estradot patch starting with 50 mcg and then if necessary increasing until you (hopefully) feel good most of the time?!
Hurdity x
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Hurdity
Would the reason I felt quite good on the BCP be due to higher levels of oestrogen in the combined pill or was it that I was getting more oestrogen and progesterone. No one seems to be able to answer why I did well on the BCP but struggle with oestrogen only HRT 😞
WMLB