Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: DaisyB on July 24, 2017, 08:25:20 AM
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I received this in my inbox this morning - and I thought of how the meno journey is a lonely old road at times. No matter how many folk you are surrounded by.
https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/the-impact-of-loneliness-on-health-how-to-build-intimacy?utm_term=pos-1&utm_source=mbg&utm_medium=email&utm_content=daily1&utm_campaign=170723 (https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/the-impact-of-loneliness-on-health-how-to-build-intimacy?utm_term=pos-1&utm_source=mbg&utm_medium=email&utm_content=daily1&utm_campaign=170723)
DaisyB x
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Ah I agree can be a very lonely time xxx
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Hello Daisy It certainly is, even f I hadn't moved away from all my friends (now mainly ex - long story!) None are menopausal so wouldn't understand what I'm going through - mine is surgical at 44. I struggle with loneliness every day, during the day it's horrible. Would love to have a friend to go out & have coffee or shop with but hey ho xx
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I'm the same moved to the country six years ago but as I have ME I don't go out much but would be nice to have friends. I started at 25 so this forum has been the only place I talk about it. I'm 43 now though xx
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ME is hard enough to manage never mind meno thrown into the mix :-\ good article I thought - worth read xx
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I apologise for the length of this post. When I was a young girl I had a tricky personality. I struggled to make and maintain friendships and my family situation didn't help it much. My father was severely bi-polar and my mother had to jump through hoops to keep the family together. My brothers (who eventually went on to become doctors) were more able to cope with the family situation which was quite abusive at times, but I wasn't, so I had the dual problem of no friends and an abusive home life.
As an adult, I was able to view things a bit differently. The hatred I had for my mother turned into admiration for her amazing ability to cope with the crap hand she was dealt. My father was mentally ill and therefore not entirely responsible for his behaviour. He also had a brother who was retarded and a mother with a serious genetic illness, so dad's road wasn't easy either.
Anyway, I wasn't going to allow my life to be a cycle of misery. Mum and I are very close now and we all made our peace with dad who passed away last year. My own marriage is great and I was so proud when my son was confident enough in me to tell me he was gay. He is 23 now and he came out to me at 20. I consider him my closest friend.
As I got older and gained more and more insight, I became highly valued as a Nanny and childcare worker because all of my life experience was put to good use in other families. I made many friends with the parents of the children I cared for and was invited to many functions and events. When I think back to my own childhood and school days when I spent so much of my time alone and wishing I could have just one person to confide in, it makes me really sad.
I am 51 years old now. I have learned that even some of the worst people are not that way because they are bad. My father simply didn't know how to deal with full time work, crippling migraines and bi-polar disorder in a time when medications weren't that good. My mother lived in an era where you keep up appearances and don't tell anyone that there are problems in the home/marriage. When my father had a geriatric episode of bi-polar 10 years ago and had to be made an involuntary patient, my mother opened up to her friends and found nothing but love and support. This changed her whole way of dealing with issues and she was less lonely as a result. My mother had so many friends and yet she was lonely because she wasn't really sharing her problems. When my father passed away last year, you could not fit everyone in the church. My father had no friends due to his early behaviour and yet so many people turned up to support mum and the family.
I have experienced crippling loneliness in my life and I recognise it in people around me. It doesn't take much to ask how people are or offer to help people in small ways. Life is truly about the ripple effect.
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Thank you Daisiesareyellow.
I have children who are young adults, and it is not plain sailing holding things together at the moment. It is hard when your life does not fit into society's expectations. I recognise a lot of what you say about loneliness in your post. It is very inspiring.
We learn so much by finding ways to overcome these difficulties.
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Ah thanks for sharing your story, just goes to show in the end people are around.
I think when your not well etc you maybe without knowing shut people out as easier then letting them down.
I'm glad you saw things different as you got older and turned them into positives xxx
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ME is hard enough to manage never mind meno thrown into the mix :-\ good article I thought - worth read xx
I no and depression thrown in happy days eh! Did you comment on my thread when I left Daisy? Do you have ME to xxx
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Daisysareyellow - thank you for sharing your story. Sometimes it's very difficult to see things from the other persons perspective - but if we can do that our own thoughts/feelings/behaviours change- for the better.
Lila22 - think I may have posted something about ME. X
I thought the article was really good - it struck me that for a lot of us on here it's the only place we can open up without feeling like we are burdening someone. Meno is so complex - some of us are fortunate enough to have loving partners as natural supports - but even that doesn't prevent us from feeling isolated.
Reading many of the posts here it is clear that most of us don't find a magic bullet and move on. The road is difficult and unpredictable and for me anyway I can sometimes be very open about what's happening to me and sometimes I feel I sound like a broken record so I say nothing. That's when it is easy to feel alone.
:bighug: To all of you xx
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Sometimes it's just comforting to see your not alone, others do actually feel the same to.
How do you cope with your ME Daisy xx
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Very difficult year lila22 - meno seemed to bring back full relapse. I struggled to cover up most of it especially at work - fatigue/exhaustion - brain fog and muscle spasms were as bad as when I was first diagnosed - on mild to severe scale I sat at moderate.
Only thing that has got me back on track is rest rest and more rest. As well as getting HRT sorted ( for now anyway) Starting to feel like I'm getting back on track but I'm still sleeping 12/13 hours a night with afternoon naps thrown in!
My goal today is to plan a return to regular physical activity over next 3 weeks. ;)
My employer is very supportive so I've no qualms about returning and having plenty of time to adjust to a working day again. Not everyone is as fortunate as that though :'(
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Ah must be very hard holding down a job with it, unfortunately I'm not able to work ATM but hopefully will get there one day.
Can I ask which HRT you are on.? It's difficult finding one as you no ME causes chemical sensitivity so it's just a nightmare xx
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I had Mirena fitted in April - reacted badly within three days - started on estrogel patch but wasn't enough - on advice from girls in MM switched to sandrena. One sachet a day. Realised after some discussion on here I should have been on higher dose - once I increased symptoms all started to ease off. So 2 sachets 1 morning and 1 at bedtime. I'll probably review this if it stays settled at end of year. Think I'd like to move to bio progesterone- but goal at minute is to get all symptoms settled for a good 6 months before I start tweaking! Hope that helps I also started working remotely with claire Snowdon Darling and am taking a number if supplements as well as watching diet ::)
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Yer a bit of stability is good before you dive in there again, that's what I'm doing xx
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What lovely posts about loneliness. I agree I had a difficult childhood too but it was my mum who was mentally unwell & in those days she was too ashamed to go for help plus my mum & dad were always arguing. It does make for a lonely childhood. The consequence of that is I was the opposite , i was a very chatty person until meno & then retreated a lot. It is very hard when you don't feel good yourself to go out into the world & be confident around other people but it also takes a lot of strength & courage to carry on at work & relationships as if everything is ok because we don't want to be seen as moaning all the time
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Ah I think that has a lot to do with with being lonely too, having the confidence to get out there.
I do moan a lot but I think we'll if it's a problem to me then it's a problem.
I guess this forum is a good place to moan as most are in the same boat 😘
Moan away xxxx
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Thank you for sharing your story Daisysareyellow. Where you said "even some of the worst people are not that way because they are bad" I just didn't realise what was wrong with me, diagnosed with depression but it took 4 years to for final diagnosis - severe PMS. By then I'd moved so had no support. None of my ex friends contacted me, but that's not surprising after the things they said about me!
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Ah that's sad to hear Yorkshire girl! Mind when your ill you soon see people for there true colours. Xxx
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Thank you girls for sharing your stories - I think the meno is so complex for each of us that there is definitely a natural draw towards isolation and loneliness.
For me personally at times I have hated the sound of my own voice as it seemed like a never ending stream of problems - and I'm still in the middle of it :-\ so rather than share what was going on I'd often retreat into myself.
I was never a natural mixer with people - never encouraged friendships - put all my time and effort into raising my own family from I was 19yrs old.
Now I am regretting some of those choices. Because in the last 6 months I've realised just how important female friendships really are- and what I find fascinating is that the 'change of life' is very aptly named.
This forum is my first real experience of sharing and supporting (albeit it anonymously and online) with a group of women. And I have really felt the benefit of that.
Not sure how I am going to go about it yet - but I do think that I need to make an effort to get out and try to foster some new relationships.
I actually remember saying when I was a young mum that I couldn't think of anything worse than having a friend that drained what energy you'd left at the end of a busy day!
Anyway times have changed and moving forward so am I ;)
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Lila so very true!
DaisyB your so right that's what this forum is for rant & mention/ask for advice. Think that's all a lot of us can do is just move on & not keep thinking about regrets - I should follow my own advice! I keep asking myself why did I put up with severe PMS for 20+ years, it took till last year at 43 to realise what illness I had!
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Just think positive better late then never, you could of gone a few more years without knowing.
As for advice I was told in CBT once when thinking of a situation/problem you have imagine it's your friend/sister asking the advice, what would you say to her? As we seem to be very hard on ourselves xxxx
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I have felt lonely in a crowded room.
Recently our supermarket decided to make some of the Tills self-service - which we refuse to use. Talking to a lady of older years she told me that she shops there twice a week and it's the place she gets the most chat ........ I told Management that if they put all the Tills self-service, I would shop on-line ::) and reiterated this lady's tale about the interaction she needs.
Mum won't admit to being lonely but I think many of us miss sharing 'stuff'. Me, although Himself and I love being out and about together or sitting quietly reading, I would love to have someone else to share our garden with ::). Mum certainly misses having a Very Good Moan as well as telling people about her day.
I never felt lonely in my deepest depression because I couldn't deal with people at all, as I began to be able to leave the house I would have loved someone to walk the :scottie: with who would understand that if I couldn't go, to accept it. Ah well.
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I know what you mean CLKD about people accepting when you cannot always stick to your commitments! I'd an acquaintance from uni who'd arranged a meet up - this was about 10 yrs ago - can't remember what the event was but my dog had died at almost 14yrs and we were all in a state. I baled out at last minute - as my girls were inconsolable. She was really angry and let me know it. I was quite ruthless but wouldnt do a thing differently if it happened again. I sent her a card and thanked her for her friendship but ended it right there. No compassion and a stickler for rules.
When you are living with something as unpredictable as poor mental health - you need the flexibility and understanding of others that allows you room to manoeuvre-
Shame about the self service tills- my goodness I've two local petrol stations that are unmanned now- :-\ drive in - fill up and pay at pump - and drive on ::) no need to speak to anyone :-\
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I know what you mean CLKD about people accepting when you cannot always stick to your commitments! I'd an acquaintance from uni who'd arranged a meet up - this was about 10 yrs ago - can't remember what the event was but my dog had died at almost 14yrs and we were all in a state. I baled out at last minute - as my girls were inconsolable. She was really angry and let me know it. I was quite ruthless but wouldnt do a thing differently if it happened again. I sent her a card and thanked her for her friendship but ended it right there. No compassion and a stickler for rules.
When you are living with something as unpredictable as poor mental health - you need the flexibility and understanding of others that allows you room to manoeuvre-
Shame about the self service tills- my goodness I've two local petrol stations that are unmanned now- :-\ drive in - fill up and pay at pump - and drive on ::) no need to speak to anyone :-\
We haven't had manned petrol pumps in Australia for years!!! It must have been phased out here at least 20 years ago. I think some supermarkets here are realising that self serve checkouts are leading to major theft issues and some are returning to manned checkouts.
In regard to your comment about baling on an event with your friend. This just seems silly. If you have given her a good reason for not turning up, well that should be enough really. My father never went to anything when we were children. His bi-polar made him extremely anti-social and it caused so much difficulty for our family. Poor mum had to make excuse after excuse when she really should have been honest. Everyone knew dad was a bit strange anyway! My older brothers used to tell their friends that dad could be a bit tricky. One of brother's friends actually made a big effort with dad and years later when dad got on better treatment, this man used to go to mum and dad's house whenever they needed any handyman work done. Dad used to sit and drink tea with him and I am so thankful that this man made the effort with dad when so many others just wrote him off.
Loneliness does funny things to people. Dad passed away last year from cancer. Mum was a medical receptionist for 20 years and despite this, avoided doctors as much as possible. She is 88 year old and only takes 1 tablet a day for blood pressure. Anyway, after dad passed, mum kept getting little health issues. I rang her local doctor and spoke to the practice nurse. The nurse asked me whether I though mum was grieving rather than actually ill. Turns out that despite living with such a difficult man all her life, mum was lonely and missing him. Mum has more friends than anyone I know, She is a committee member of two large community groups but I was noticing that at night she would call me. We used to talk on the phone a few times a week, but mum was making any excuse to call. I spoke to my older brothers and we all made an extra effort to get round to see her. I live 15km away, so I am the closest, but my brothers rang her more frequently. I as a bit insensitive. I assumed that dad's passing would lift a huge burden off her shoulders, when in fact, she told me she didn't mind taking dad to his appointments, etc.. as they gave her purpose. Oh and recently mum was made Senior Citizen of The Year in our local community for all her years of volunteer work. Now she has to attend functions associated with this and has another purpose.
It's far to easy to write people off. We endured 40+ years of dad's bizarre behaviour, only to find that modern medication made him pretty close to normal. In the few years prior to his death, dad was on Epilim which controlled both his bi-polar and his migraines. He did take a couple of other drugs as well, but he became pleasant to talk to and deal with. I should add that my father held one of the highest public service positions in Australia whilst he was so sick. I still don't know how he did it!
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Yes Daisysareyellow similar to you my MIL had poor mental health but never really had a diagnosis and used AD and sleeping tablets most of her life. She also smoked heavy which caused macular degeneration- almost totally blind before lung cancer claimed her. Over the years my very gentle FIL had it hard at times managing her behaviours.
Since she passed away 3 yrs ago he talks about her constantly and misses her so much - we've had to do something similar to step up the contact with him.
I just realised I wrote
'No compassion and a stickler for rules'
[/size]that was the Uni friend not me ::)
A shop assistant told me that the self service tills rely on honest customers and that a lot of people were not paying for carrier bags :-\
Re petrol stations unmanned - I hate them! The two I refer to would have had small grocery stores attached. A welcome port on a stretch of the coast road that hasn't got another fuel stop for miles. Wouldn't like to be travelling alone on that road anymore and get into difficulties :-\
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I'm quite ok cancelling plans if I'm not well, the people who are friends or family do understand as I do cancel a lot. Even if someone has a cold they no not to come see me ect (because of my ME) so I'm lucky in that way, along the way I've lost contact with friends who don't understand but that's down to me, as to be honest I can't be bothered with people who don't understand.
I also had less friends when I gave up drinking but that doesn't bother me, the friends I do have are from school, my teenage years, I don't see them much but I no I could call and meet for a cuppa ect.
As for self service tills we have Four at our local supermarket which stand empty when there is always a huge que at the proper tills. Hopefully people will catch on we prefere to speak and communication as a lot of old people this may be the only chat they have for the day x
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My Dad had bi-polar too and took his own food with him (something I did in later life too ::)) so that he could eat if he wanted to or say "I'm OK thanks, I've got my own". It was kind of normal for us ::)
Lovely comments here :thankyou:
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Sorry to go back daisyb to something you said in an earlier post ....I'm going to start hrt once my health tests I'm having are all done and I was starting on femoston as that seeems the best progesterone one but I've seen you're on sandrena and wondered how you're finding it especially the fact you're sleeping so much. As you know I can't sleep I'm really poorly off lack of sleep and just wondered if you think the sandrena has helped with your sleep or if you slept good before..and are you peri still having periods as I thought you had to take progesterone too? I'm just looking at all options but I can't take progesterone up inside me as I wee every hour sometimes more even through the night so it would only stay up less than an hour through the night and I've read it has to stay up there all night..it's a shame as I've been told the safest hrt is oestrogel and utrogesan combi...
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Hi PB - I have Mirena in and sandrena I've increased myself 2 x a day. I've ME so sleep can swing badly from very little to too much. That said the health anxiety and sleep was dreadful from January to a couple of months back. I'm also working with claire snowdon Darling on diet and supplements- on advice from some ladies here - sleep has been terrific last couple of months. When ME was bad I had to retrain my sleep patterns - was dreadful I had to limit sleep during the day to short naps - set bedtime routines same time - bath- tv off and aromatherapy oils etc I have blackout blinds bamboo eye masks and ear plugs now. ;D Incase i have problems getting over - and woe betide anyone who wakes me up ::) :-\
I'm peri - period free for 7 months last year then flooding for 3/4 months before coil went in. Never had hormones in my life until now. After reading researching and chatting about it in here I have concluded the very slightly increased risk far outweighs the quality of life I'm getting back. Keep in touch x
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Thanks for your reply...I'm still not sure if your hrt helped you to sleep though as that's main reason I want to try hrt. Although I have the other horrid peri symptoms it's the lack of sleep that's ruining my quality of life. I have posted on here when I first joined and although a small percentage of ladies it helped their sleep it was mainly for those who got to sleep ok.but woke up early or had flashes that kept waking them. I'm not like that I can't physically get to sleep until around 4am and after 4 years of this hrt is my only last option. If it doesn't help with sleep I won't stay on it as the other symptoms are livable just
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PB that's dreadful have you been referred to sleep clinic at all? Mum was telling me tonight she watched programme today and they reported good results from passionflower tea - although if I can compare to the severe anxiety I had tried almost anything anyone could recommend and although some things helped nothing came close to what the HRT did in last few weeks! I hope you get an answer to this as sleep is so important for many health reasons. Keep in touch. Another thing I tried and just remembered about was lemonbalm herb. My SIL had real horrible sleep deprivation following hysterectomy in her early 40's - she tried lemon balm also but in the end I gave up as it gave me nightmares. She gave up also and succumbed to sleeping pills - you know it's whatever works for you. Sometimes it's one thing sometimes it's a combination of both prescribed and alternative. Hoping you find answers soon!
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I have asked for referral to a sleep even private but sadly and stupidly their sleep clinics run a tight time line of 930pm til 6am to monitor you and I don't get to sleep til 4am so 2 hours is pointless monitoring me especially if I go private and have to pay a huge amount of money. The waiting list for nhs one is up to 3 years and I haven't got insomnia I've got DSPD delayed sleep phase disorder which has no cure. I'be been on zopiclone like your SIL but I'm only prescribed enough for 14 nights sleep every 90 days which is pathetic. So I tend to take a dose every 6th night it doesn't knock me out but I get to sleep by 1am at least. They're addictive so they say but I'd rather be addicted and get sleeo than have this quality of life the lack of sleep has already caused so many issues health wise I can't work I'm fit for nothing and it's only going to get worse. Well on my next period I'm starting femoston 1/10 against my doctor advice as he wants me to have some final scans and bloods done by end of August first but I've got to try. Sadly I can't see hrt helping at all as my sleep deprivation is not cyclical it's constant which makes me feel it's not hormonal. Thanks again though for your help and advice
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PB that's dreadful - i really feel for you - my SIL had exactly same thing going on and then they stopped and refused to give her any. So she went back to GP went berserk. Threatened to put in official complaint as they were not giving her what she needed and not treating her with any replacement. She's on them full time now. I hope things improve somehow as that is just torture. I had dreadful sleep pattern when first diagnosed with ME so I can relate a little to what your experiencing. I would have killed someone if they so much as whispered anywhere near my room once I was sleeping, it was so precious to me to finally get rest. Keeping fingers crossed something works for you soon xx
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Sorry to hear that you are suffering like this PB. I am usually asleep within an hour of putting out the light but sometimes it takes longer and I know how annoying it is. Have you tried the bright light therapy?
Taz x
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I'm out in the daylight from around 10am til 3 or later in summer as I walk dogs as a volunteer so I didn't think the light theory would help as I'm in it alot.
Daisyb good on your sister but my doctors wouldn't prescribe them full time even though they see me on my knees. I'm tempted to get them off the Internet but you never know what you're buying. Can I ask how long your SILhas been on zopiclone and what dose. Thank you
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PB. -I'll text her today and get details for you.
DaisyB x
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PB - my SIL replied.
Morning! Im still on them 3.75mg every night. Doc had started cutting the zoplicone down gradually and by the time it had got down to 14 for a month I was going mental. I'd asked her why they were taking people off them and one reason she gave was...they can shorten your life! I said I'd had breast cancer twice and now heart failure which could shorten your life and she said I had a point and prescribed a full month.
SIL says GP told her the amount of zoplicone was so small she should be able to do without it - but on it permanently is the only thing that gives her a half decent sleep.
[/size]Hope this is helpful for you.
[/size]DaisyB Xx
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I'm out in the daylight from around 10am til 3 or later in summer as I walk dogs as a volunteer so I didn't think the light theory would help as I'm in it alot.
Daisyb good on your sister but my doctors wouldn't prescribe them full time even though they see me on my knees. I'm tempted to get them off the Internet but you never know what you're buying. Can I ask how long your SILhas been on zopiclone and what dose. Thank you
Although you are outside the light isn't the same as from Light Therapy PB. It works in a different way. It is one of the first treatments for the disorder you have and I'm surprised you haven't been offered it? https://www.sleepassociation.org/patients-general-public/delayed-sleep-phase-syndrome/ The important thing also is to reduce exposure to evening light - not sure how much you know about it so don't want to go on about what you already have knowledge of!
Taz x
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Thanks so much for that and I totally agree . My quality of life is awful I'm already on an AD have been for 30 odd years always will be I've had cancer scares I'm being tested for ovarian cancer lymph cancer and I'm pre diabetic high cholesterol and all of these have come in the last few years I'm sure it's due to lack of sleep. I've had two breakdowns the last one 3 years ago when I'd stopped my AD after being told it was causing the insomnia and I had to stop work and almost lost my life. I put on a smile to chatty happy face to the world and pretend life is good so nobody thinks I'm falling apart. I've lost my so called friends when I got ill as they don't believe in mental illness think it's attention seeking. I will try hrt this time but as I don't believe it's hormones that's affecting my sleepisode I don't hold out much hope. If it falls to help I'm going to demand my doctor gives me zopiclone and maybe show my true self and not put on an act then he might realise how desperate I am for sleep. It's not just the actual sleep it's the depression anxiety that comes with the long lonely nights from 11pm til 4am when I'm sat in the back room alone crying and feeling so fed up plus I can't do anything early anymore as in order to get 5 hours sleep I get up at 9am. Sorry to rant on can't you tell I have no friends to talk to ..you get a pity me message which I don't mean to do just wish people would understand what 4 years of sleep deprivation can do to someone x
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Hi taz2 I have read up on it but it mainly referred to light therapy working in people who didn't see much natural daylight and it's used alongside melatinin in the evening which I've tried and made no difference at all.
My gp doesn't recognise my illness it's just you'll sleep when you're tired comment they're useless.
I will maybe look at liget therapy but it's results are not very good it's mainly helped people who are house bound or office workers and in conjunction with melatonin.
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Peroxid - it's a different form of light! Don't believe what you read!!!! the only way to sort this is to try for yourself.
"sleep when you are tired" yeh right! >goes away muttering<
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Clkd..believe me there isn't one thing I haven't tried as and when I find out about it so it's on my list. I have read again today though and it says to try the light box or get daylight soon after waking which I do. Plus the only issue I have and many other people will is that it says to sit by it for one to two hours after waking well that's a no no. I already get up at 9 to get 4 or 5 hours sleep then my dog needs to go out and off to our building site I can't afford 1 hour to lay in front of it never mind two. And if I get up at 7 am I'd be dead in my feet ...and yeh the doctors have seen by face when they make their asinine comments...violence runs through my mind @@ haha
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For those of you who are brave enough to have opened up about your loneliness, I'm sending you a huge hug. Goodness knows, we live in a society that is lacking compassion towards others. It's a real bug bear of mine.
Even on this site, I can already pick out the types who are the 'pull yourself together' ones. It's sad that even women seem to be lacking tenderness and warmth towards others. People don't need to be lectured to. They only need to be able to express themselves and their emotional vulnerability - and for that to be 'okay'.
As a therapist I notice this more and more in people. But I would wholeheartedly say that the those who are able to be open and express their vulnerablities are much stronger, than those who judge and tell others to 'be positive'.
It's never good to deny feelings but I sense that people who are afraid to open up to others, are afraid that they are going to be judged, rather than supported with unconditional positive regard as being human.
It therefore doesn't surprise me that there are more and more cases of depression in this country. Unless people feel they can talk about their feelings in a safe space, then they suffer unnecessarily.
x
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Lack of VitD can cause tiredness as can being dehydrated. Hungry. Worried.
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I can see that it would be difficult but if it helps you in the long run is there no way that for a few weeks at least you can take some time off? It is so difficult to cope with little sleep.
Taz x
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We have a property business and we've got 8 weeks to get this property finished as we might be moving in and have to finish ours too..then we've got 6 more to build and renovate so there's no time off sadly. I shouldn't even be getting up at 9 that is way too late really but I've had no choice...it's just all come at once this year but as usual I pretended I was fine I was fit and healthy and put on my on top of the world face so I can't let everyone down...