Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: DaisyB on June 27, 2017, 08:36:05 PM
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I hope you don't mind if I share with you how I'm feeling tonight? I have pins and needles still in arms, muscles feel heavy, my skin feels like it's burning, I could live on one meal a day and I can't even taste it properly, my granddaughter needed her nappy changing today and I had to rely on someone else telling me as I couldn't smell :'( I could sleep 12 hours a night - unless anxiety surges through me and I won't sleep at all. I have zero sex drive and I feel so low. Saw private GP today she wants to send me to a psychologist but thinks MRI is a good place to start for peace of mind and to ensure nothing neurological going on. I can't see my phone as I'm crying so hard writing this.
I felt like the tears had to come to give me a sense of relief so I'm not stopping them.
I feel sorry for my DH who has to watch me disintegrate in front of his eyes.
I am trying everything I can think of - CBD worked to a point (useless today)
Remembered I missed estrogel this morning and am wondering if that's why I am so bad - who knows. My beautiful strong mind is unrecognisable to me now -
Visited dad on neuro ward today and sat in pure panic the whole time thinking that's going to be me.
I want someone to take this away from me and give me my life back.
I started to cry when I read what some of you girls were cooking - that was my fav thing! I got my family together and I cooked until they were bursting.
I can't tolerate wine - I can't think to go shopping - I can't concentrate to stand and cook - I take two steps forward and three backwards. And it feels crap. I always chastised my DH for looking at the glass half full. Now I just see an empty glass.
Had to get that off my chest :'(
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Hi Daisy really really sorry to read that, all I feel I can do is send you lots of :hug: :hug: xx
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This is so sad and destructive to some women, my heart goes out to you and yet reading your post brought dreadful memories of how I was. I can only assume that it's time that has passed that's got me to a better place but I'm nowhere near where I'd like to be
Have you met Edelweiss on here? She is feeling somewhat better by trying a different route. I don't know the ins and outs of what she's doing but it's really helping her xxx
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Girls thank you - I've messaged Edelweiss and contacted Claire who she has had success with - just awful - you all know exactly what I'm feeling.
GP did some tests and I recognised them as I've been in with my dad when he gets the same. She did say she believes I have not presented as someone with consistent symptoms and although I have pins and needles etc it does fluctuate and is worse when I'm very anxious. But she said if I refer you to a psychologist you will still be worried and if it was her she would want peace of mind before starting therapy. She also said she didn't want to add to my anxiety and ultimately it was my choice. But I came out and felt like collapsing afterwards I was so afraid. DH had couple chats with me by phone and managed to help me settle. I have never known fear like this - it's totally crippling :'( half a diazepam in and double estrogen - hoping I'll start to mellow soon ??? so glad some of you are on here tonight just helped to know someone is there and I'm not alone xxx
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:foryou: :bighug:
You're not alone DaisyB- it's crap. You feel rubbish. You WILL get better with time. We all understand.
You're not alone.
With love x
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If your anxiety is so debilitating, get your GP to prescribe a suitable medication! If you have had neck problems when anxious the muscles will tense and any problem will be exacerbated hence the pins and needles sensations. How long will you have to wait for an MRI ?
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Hi Daisy, I've just popped on to respond to a PM and read your post. I'm really so sorry you're feeling so dreadful, how frightened you must feel. This peri/meno malarkey can really test us.
Daisy, I'm off to my bed and haven't time now to read your history. Has anyone considered you may be suffering from migraine? A number of the symptoms you mention can be symptoms of migraine prodrome or aura. One particular type, Hemiplegic migraine, causes pins and needles in the arm. Honestly some of the symptoms of migraine are weird and whacky and can be terrifying when you have no idea what is going on. Silent migraine are migraine symptoms of prodrome, aura and postdrome but without the headache. That can be terrifying and confusing if you can't explain what is happening to you.
If you think this is a possibility let's chat tomorrow, maybe I could offer some advice.
I do hope you manage to get some sleep tonight and that you wake feeling better in the morning. Sending you a hug x
Have a read of this;
https://www.migrainetrust.org/about-migraine/types-of-migraine/hemiplegic-migraine/
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CKLD - I told her that I had 6 days last week when I was mostly anxiety free and that I don't want to take meds that won't help the root cause. I'm contacting Benenden tomorrow to see if they can assist me with getting it funded asap.
ER - I worked with a client who had a hemiplegic migraine and two years later was seeing a psychiatrist and physio whilst still using a cane to assist her with walking- I have thought of her often in the past few months
It feels like I am losing my mind - I am trying so very hard to rationalise what's happening and to accept its anxiety. For three years I have had one thing after another eg pain in shoulder blade - had 2 different physios treat it convinced it was serious and had MRI which picked up mild arthritis
- shortness of breath and feeling of getting strangled. They said acid reflux - I had camera and biopsies twice down into tummy convinced it was stomach cancer
- breast lumps twice - private mammos and ultrasounds + biopsies ( convinced I was dying - even though I had had cysts pop up since I was in my 20's)
And that's just a flavour. Slowly it has been chipping away at me. The latest started in January and has gradually increased in intensity but def fluctuates - I'm convinced it's serious neuro problems and I am watching the body language of GP so intensely convinced she is concerned also.
I can't seem to get anxiety down at the minute. Maybe I should take medication - but I've worked so long with folk who are on meds and to me it hasn't addressed the problem that's causing it and comes with their own set of side effects. I also still have myself convinced that anxiety is not the cause but that there is something wrong physically and anxiety is just a symptom of that
I don't recognise who I am anymore. :'(
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Hi Daisy
You obviously had a bad night as I saw you'd posted in the early hours. I hope you managed to get some sleep.
I'm sorry I had missed your earlier posts but have just quickly read through your history. I want to say that I'm no expert on migraines but have had a long and arduous struggle with them and have seen many very well regarded specialists so have learnt a lot as the years have passed.
The main overriding thing that hits me from reading your posts is that of anxiety and fear. The unknown can be terrifying and that is what you are trying to deal with at the moment, the unknown. It is actually sometimes easier to deal with a known obstacle when it's standing in front of us.
Only you can know what is best for you, only you have all the facts about your history but I tried putting myself in your shoes and tried to work out how I'd handle your situation.
You need answers and definitely need the reassurance of having a thorough overhaul so the MRI may give you a bigger picture. I don't know what your father's neurological condition is but you refer to it often so I'm wondering whether you think you have the same condition. If so, would an MRI be able to determine that or would a lumbar puncture be needed too? You've mentioned MS a number of times, have they tested you for this?
Your anxiety could well be being caused by your physical symptoms, equally it could be that anxiety is causing your symptoms, and of course it could well be that both are concurrent and are caused by the same and different things. So many questions! Get the physical tests done so you better know where you are.
As far as migraines are concerned many of the symptoms you have discussed can be those of aura and prodrome with or without the headache. Nausea, pins and needles (I get these down the left side of my face with some aura), exhaustion, apathy, phantom smells, odd tastes in the mouth, lack of interest in food. As I was reading I was almost writing a tick list. At one point I though, this lady needs to speak with Mary G, I then read on and found you had!
The fact that so many of these symptoms started after the Mirena was fitted set off more warning bells. Peri seems to change our coping dynamic, things that were tolerated before, in peri suddenly aren't. My migraines kicked in at the start of peri along with all sorts of allergies and heightened reactivity to things. One thing's for sure, it seems you need to balance the progesterone hit from the Mirena with a good dose of oestrogel.
Stress too is an awful trigger for migraines and you've had an awful lot to deal with recently. You mentioned your anxiety sweeps in in waves, could that be related to the adrenaline surges we can experience before flushing, have you noticed any relationship between the two? The raging hormonal swings some of us experience in peri seem to trigger anxiety and depression in lots of women. For some HRT can help enormously with this but for others they also need some ADs. There are many women on this site who need both. Whilst ADs shouldn't be the first port of call to treat peri symptoms, often it's necessary to combine HRT and ADs. We are all different; there is no set formula.
One thing I have been told by docs repeatedly through the years is that, it is very common for those who suffered with PMT, and other hormonally driven difficulties to have a tough peri. That applies also to mental health, therefore if you struggled mentally with periods, PND etc it's an indication that you may well struggle similarly with peri.
One thing I've noticed is that too high levels of oestrogen can cause symptoms very similar to PMT. We have discussed this subject many times here. Therefore it is sometimes difficult trying to work out whether you are struggling with too much oestrogen or too little. I think CLKD suggested that you keep a diary of what's happening to you. All of my specialists insisted upon it as it can assist them with identifying what may be triggering your symptoms, especially if it is hormonal. Just a few minutes each day recording what's happened to you, bleeds, breast tenderness, changes in cervical mucus, mood changes, high anxiety, particular stress, anything that could help build a picture. It is amazing how quickly patterns start to emerge and this info is a tremendous tool for docs to work with. Also, and I may be a control freak, but I think it helps enormously to just recognise why you are feeling like you are. I like to known what is going on and why!!
I've never suffered with anxiety or depression and for that I am immensely grateful because it would have made my experience to date much more difficult to manage. I am therefore reluctant to offer advice with this. However, I've experienced many years trapped in my bed for anything up to 24 days a month and I found that when the going got tough the only way I could deal with it and with the accompanying chronic pain was to find a release, a way to deal with it. I would simply close down. I would allow my brain to slip away into a number of storylines. Who knows perhaps this was a form of self devised meditation but it would allow me to exit the present and the pain as much as that was possible. I also had a go to ‘feel good' DVD series which again distracted me. Even the music on it was enough to start to ease my load!
Sorry to have rambled, I felt so sad for you last night that I wanted to try to offer another perspective. If you want to ask anything about migraine do please contact me. The hemiplegic migraine doesn't necessarily cause long term side effects if you were worrying about your client.
I wish you well Daisy x
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There are emergency 'as necessary' meds for anxiety without which I wouldn't be here. Knowing that 1mg works within 25-40 mins. means I am non-reliant on what ever it is I've been prescribed ::). I tried deep breathing, other relaxation therapies over the years with some success - working from my toes upwards, stretching and relaxing ....... counting sheep didn't do it as I was more animated ::). But when anxiety floored me my GP gave me Valium 5mg as necessary and later the one I take in more recent years.
I have a spray of Rescue Remedy to hand, I don't ever think 'how does this' or 'will this' work, once I've sprayed it I try to get on with what I'm doing ........ usually one/2 sprays have been enough to calm me.
Anxiety has been the worst part of my Life since the age of 3 :'( so I've tried various coping strategies over the years and have had some years when it wasn't a problem, regardless of where I am/was in the hormone journey.
Adrenaline surges for me feels like hot water coursing through my veins, really strange sensations but now I know what the feelings are .....
It's the Trial and Error which can be so tiresome!
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I'm new, but I wanted to reply to your post and offer some support to you. I experienced so much of the awful dread and anxiety when my perimenopause ramped up to full speed. I had terrible health anxiety and literally thought I was a terminal case of some yet to be diagnosed illness. This went on for nearly two years and only started to diminish when the frequency of my periods became over three months apart.
I believe the anxiety and fear symptoms are a result of the our ovaries shutting down hormone production and our adrenals taking over the job of supplying those hormones. It really is the "change." At the moment I'm at the tail end of an ovulation attempt, where my estrogen was surging and is now dropping off. The fluctuation of hormones DID NOT set off anxiety. Although, we'll see what happens if a period results and any premenstrual tension presents itself.
Basically, what I want you to know, is that all of this horrible anxiety and fear that you are feeling will most likely diminish as your body and brain become used to your adrenals supplying your hormones. I think the main culprit in perimenopausal anxiety is cortisol. Cortisol production really gets out of whack during the change but does eventually settle.
Perimenopause is a wild ride and we have to be patient with the process and kind to ourselves. (By the way, I did attempt to write an introduction for myself, but it seemed to disappear into the ether. I think I was logged off before I finished it. Oh well, I may try to re-type it again). Blessings to you!
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:welcomemm: Patience and :thankyou:
I think The Change can be a real shock to some women!
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Patience - :welcomemm: and thank you kindly
CKLD - I have diazapam for the moments I absolutely can't get myself out of
ER- thank you x
Shortie - thank you also
To all of you - don't know how I got through yesterday without letting anyone in my family know - but I did. Well I do know- because I had you all to talk to. My DH said you are angels - :thankyou:
I doubled up the estrogel as I'd forgotten yesterday's dose in the morning - I've doubled up today as well and anxiety is by far more manageable.
ER - Dad's condition is quite rare and not hereditary so not thinking I have it. But sitting in the neuro ward for most of the last 4 weeks hasn't helped my anxiety! You are right it's the unknown - I can't describe this very well - but it is sheer terror that I am about to die or worse be left unable to fend for myself. When I was first diagnosed with ME - I spent most of 4 mths in bed. I made a plan and I fought hard to get through it - like you I had dvds sets and because I could do nothing else I escaped into that world. But with this terror that hits me I have to crawl into a ball and ride it out- it is pure physical pain that hits me and rolls over me and a feeling like I'm about to die.
There's a burning sensation on my skin and prickly pins and needles in hand arm and legs- that just feeds the anxiety continuously.
I noticed a marked improvement today - so in that window of opportunity I organised MRI ( I've mentioned Benenden before on MM - they are a godsend when the NHS isn't working for us)
I also organised with Claire Snowdon Darling to chat in morning to see if she can help me in anyway.
I then booked a holiday cottage by a fishing lake for me, DH, my sis and her family and the parents - oh and one of my wee dogs ( the quiet one ;) )[size=78%] a wee holiday is what we all need I think. [/size]
MRI should help me move forward. Providing that is ok - I got appt at meno clinic for mid August - and have agreed to psychologist referral following MRI.
ER - do you mean hot flushes? I haven't had any - I get night sweats - one last night that's what woke me at 2am- that's the first in ages since having Mirena fitted.
Think I'm going to start light walking tomorrow if I can stay on top of anxiety. -as I haven't exercised at all since stopping work in March!
I am fighting it - and when I get kicked down I thank God I have the ability to get back up and start fighting some more.
To all of you here I sincerely appreciate the support and words of comfort.
I will keep you posted on Claire Darling Snowdon and MRI
In meantime I'm using CBD for toenail fungus ;D because frankly a full bottle wasn't going to get me through yesterday - think it may have helped with low level anxiety but not convinced. That's as honest as I can be about it. My dad feels it has transformed his pain. He only became aware of it when he didn't take to hospital with him.
If I finish bottle and notice that it actually had been making a difference I will update thread.
Thanks girls!
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You speak of fighting your anxiety.
That is so wrong. You need to accept it....recognise it....and acknowledge that it has never done you any harm up until now. You then accept the feelings and let them flow and go.
The worse thing you can do is fight. Acceptance is the absolute key. If you see it as a fight then you make the fight and flight response far worse.
A helpful book re anxiety is by Dr Claire Weekes. You can pick them up on Amazon for not a lot. She explains how to deal with your feelings in a very simple and slightly old fashioned way.
Mrs Brown
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Ok MrsB - feels like I'm giving up if I give in - but I accept your wisdom and will check out the book x
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You are not giving in at all. You are accepting the feelings. They haven't harmed you have they.....
They come along and you say.....yes I know how this feels but really I'm fine.....and let them flow away. The more you focus then the worse you feel.
I have done this for a long while now. In fact when I feel really bad I think....well come and do your worse because I'm just fine really.
Whatever you have to tell yourself to get by.
I just know fighting things makes them far far worse as you are tense before you even start.
It's just a different way of thinking about things.
Mrs Brown
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Thank you girls - I read my prescription today and it said I can go up to 3 sachets per day of the sandrena gel - each one is 500 mcg - or mane that's 50 mcg :o don't know anything about doses but i definitely feel a lot stronger. I've still tingling sensation but it's weirdly in both legs now front and back. Having said that yesterday was terrifying and I'm guessing there's a lot of stress hormones floating around.
Yes sparkle ME just complicates everything- :-\
Mrs B I tried the heap but I needed a horse tranquilizer it was so bad. But I guess now that I recognise it and if I get a clear MRI then hopefully I can start to process it in a better way. Problem I have with that wish is that for 3 years I have had one thing after another - and each time a test was the only thing to reassure me all was well. Now I did have breast cysts (quite large) and they discovered a hernia - so there was always some reason but I still almost worried myself silly. This time the anxiety is worse than I have ever known. I do need to tackle it.
I joined an anxiety site today. Not intending to join the forum on it - but the literature looks good. I'll share link if I feel it may help others xx
Hubby is right you are really all angels xx
I mentioned in an earlier post about an acquaintance who was my age and had deteriorating mental health - convinced she was slowly dying and that no one believed her. She took her own life very violently and my heart aches for her pain now that I am in the throws of a mental health struggle. I can't begin to imagine what she was living with.
Goodnight girls xx
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Hi, Daisy! Have you seen my post about magnesium today? xxxxx
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Just a quickie as on way out- I get all the symptoms you've described and have done all the worrying you are now doing- after years of them coming and going, I've put them down to my ongoing health anxiety and migraines. By all means get the MRI to settle this, but acknowledge that your mind will land on something else to fret over- you/we/I have honed our natural skills to always be on the lookout for danger and you do need to tackle that via some therapy/medication as well.
Can I also just say, if it does turn out to be something, you will cope- I was diagnosed with cancer last year and no long term, life threatening or shortening illness is easy to handle, but you do find ways of getting through it and living a life- perhaps you need to think through this with a therapist and see what it is you really are scared of- it's often not the thing you think it is.
Wishing you well xx
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MBrown, the Claire Weeke's books (particularly her first) have helped me tremendously over the years. I'm so glad you mentioned them. :)
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No tempest I'll look at it now x
Thank you kindly coldethyl - it reassures me to know I'm not going mad. I knoeni need to tackle the anxiety. Started today by contacting someone recommended highly by girls on this site :)
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Hope you feel better soon, as others have said, it will all naturally calm down eventually if you don't find exactly what you need right now.
It's good you keep trying new things though as I've tried hundreds of things over the years and only a couple have truly hit the spot for me.
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Hope today is going ok Daisy. Hormonal anxiety is horrible and creates health anxiety and then it just goes around in one horrible vicious circle! The worst bit I've found with all this is every twinge is a major illness but wonder if that's a sign of getting older and being more concerned about our health....see that vicious circle again.
I had a bad patch last year, body out of whack due to an op and horrible things started happening after I finished doing the physical healing. So panicked of course and in the end went to a naturopath who thought something was missing in the gaba chain which was leading to feeling anxious. So was on a bunch of supplements which I'm sure helped. I had some adrenal tests but they were fine so in the end (and after having read on here about some symptoms meaning hormones out of balance) I told myself that everytime I had the jitters etc and other weird stuff it was just my hormones which helped take back some control and eventually I got over it, thankfully.
Patience's explanation of adrenals taking over from ovaries makes sense. It must be a massive change for the body to cope with and thank goodness we have sites like this and the knowledge on it to help us all through this.
You're going through a lot at the moment but I found just getting my fears (even the silly ones) off my chest really helped and get everything in perspective. Otherwise I was just bottling everything up inside and making it all worse. So keep chatting here!
Take care...
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Wombat, I'm a HUGE believer in supporting adrenal health. Hopefully one day, the 'experts' will realise that this is a big part of menopause (after all, they are taking over hormone function from declining or absent ovaries in the case of surgical menopause) and why women today seem to be suffering more due to our modern, stressful lifestyles.
HRT can help, but it will still 'fall short' in times of illness or increased stress as it'a a fix dose way of replacing declining hormones and you would need to adjust the dose constantly to get a 'perfect fit' to replace what our wonderfully complex endocrine systems did before menopause.
A better way would be to support the adrenals so that they are better able to cope with any shortfalls - by limiting stress, supplementing the adrenals, addressing any other mental health issues and generally just being kind to yourself. xxxxx
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Tempest could not agree more! ;D HRT is like putting in just one piece of a much larger puzzle. It misses the 'big' (or should we say, 'bigger') picture. I've ready many times that HRT is of little good if the adrenals are burned out and we are not paying attention to protecting them and nourishing the health of these glands. It's one of the main reasons I am a very reluctant HRT user and will be weaning off soon. Excellent post.
I hope everyone finds the best way for them and finds whatever peace (in their body) they can achieve. Honestly, it's day to day and that's all you can do! hugs to all!
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Girls thank you - feeling much better - Adrenals ... well I had an initial convo with Claire ( thanks to edelweiss) and that's what we discussed. My adrenals were already in trouble as I'd had ME and IBS for over 10 years. So kind of makes sense that when they need to take over and are not in good shape there could be issues. That's what I'm going to be concentrating on girls I've next fee months - will keep posting xx
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Can I ask what she suggested that you could do to help.
Mrs Brown
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Totally agree Tempest after what I learnt from my naturopath last year! I've always been a bit stressed out (usually by people!) but now I do find after last year it affects me more and quicker, so I do have to watch it. Unfortunately it's pretty unavoidable (unless I win the lotto!) and I'm a natural born worrier which doesn't help. I'm trying to believe in the universe and mindfulness etc but it's pretty hard sometimes!
The naturopath gave me some supplements for adrenal support and they certainly helped. Just such a shame it's a very expensive exercise over here in Oz :( as I'd go more.
I can recommend Indian gingseng or Ashwagandha supplements which you can get at the health food shop. They usually come with a magnesium, b vits and a relaxing plant such as camomile. I picked that tip up from another forum and it certainly did seem to help until I decided to seek some pro help but I have some handy for when I get a bit low.
Meno arrives at the totally wrong time for ladies these days, sandwiched between kids, ageing parents, job worries etc. However, the more docs can understand how meno works then perhaps it will become a easier to support women. I'm totally amazed how something that has been around forever is so little understood by some medics!
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MB - haven't had formal consultation yet - will keep you posted. My guess is that supplement wise I'll probably have it on my kitchen counter anyway ;D
Looks like it's going to be a diet overhaul and supplements to work along side the HRT xx