Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Mbrown001 on June 15, 2017, 07:18:16 PM
-
Does anyone else think that it can be an issue.
It's not something I suffer from myself as I'm more inclined to withdraw rather than confront....but I have witnessed, both in the real world and on various forums, more women being forthright and sometimes aggressive.
Is it because the age has been reached that some just don't care what others think, or is it hormonal ?
Is it a lack if hormones or replacing them.....with oestrogen , progesterone or even testosterone.
I have to say I've witnessed it more in the virtual world than the real world.
Is it because of the anonymity of a forum or what.
I have to say some things have baffled me recently so I'm just kind of trying to figure out why and what causes it.
In years gone by I would have waded in and had my say but the older I get the less inclined I become.
Obviously it's different for us all.
Do you feel more able to have your say or are you like me and say very little and then quietly seethe ::)
Mrs Brown
-
Interesting concept, I do think it is easier to speak out online, you can be who or what you want to be without fear of recriminations as it is anonymous. I also think sometimes the typed word is static and open to misinterpretation at times. A consequence of believing passionately in something does mean that spats will occcur from time to time but we all respect each other and differences get ironed out without too much trouble. If we all agreed all the time it would not be real.
As in any group situation there are always those confident people who can communicate easily and others who find it harder. The important thing is that we are all respected by each other, listened to and treated courteously. I used to belong to a forum that was a horror for bullying and picking on other members by the admin and other members alike. I didn't hang around very long and the forum didn't last long either, a couple of years.
I have to admit, I find it easier to speak out on a subject online that I can when face to face with someone IRL.
-
Good points BabyJane.
I think it's much easier to be "brave" online.
I find putting my point forward easier in an anonymous situation. I still try to think of others feelings though. I think that's really important.
Sometimes things are said that make me sit back and think......well would you actually say that in the real world.
Thought should be given as to whether we might hurt other people's feelings at all times.
Mrs Brown
-
I agree we all have to be mindful of the feelings of others. I do proof read my posts before I click 'post' and as far as I know I have never said anything confrontational or rude, but I know it does happen sometimes.
To address your initial question I don't know whether this happens more at this time of life or whether it has anything to do with different hormone levels or low hormone levels. We all know that we can be volatile or unpredictable in meno in the same way as happens pre -menstrually. That's just how things can be.
-
Mmm! I have become more assertive and confident with age, which is a good thing.
I wasn't cowed by the man who shouted at me when he wrecked my wing mirror today by driving so fast. Though upset as there were no witnesses, and angry, as I shall have to shell out, I stood my ground and was not intimidated. I'm feeling rather proud of myself now. But I'm not aggressive, though I used to be for a day or two with PMT.
I have noticed some aggression here on the forum. I tend to avoid as in real life. Walk. Don't engage. I can't reason with anyone when they are seeing red mist. Only talk non confrontationally if appropriate, when they are calmer, if they are close to me. I agree it is easier to be aggressive when it's anonymous. Think of trolls on the internet. And bullying which children have to deal with these days.
I try to be kind and respectful. And I didn't tell that man what I really thought about his behaviour today, but maybe not respect and kindness playing it's part, but more self preservation!
-
It's androstendione, Mrs. B! Estrogen and progesterone leave the building, and the ovaries become androgen secreting little blighters over time which then converts to estrone via peripheral conversion. Hence chin hairs, grumpy mood etc. etc....Oh, the joys!
I don't have ovaries, so does that mean I miss this bit out? At least that would be SOMETHING.... :o ;) xxxxx
-
I won't take any flak these days. I wouldn't say boo to a goose until my mid-30s then realised that the way not to be walked over was to put my point over.
-
I have kept ovaries Tempest but I find that I am a lot less aggressive now that I was in my 20s, 30s and 40s. I seem to have mellowed and become calmer and more patient, not all the time but a lot of the time :)
-
Does adding in extra hormones exacerbate the aggressiveness.
I really don't know.
I have read things on forums that have made me think.....why on earth would anyone say that.
Is it thoughtlessness or carelessness or what.
I know we can be sensitive at times but the ..."aggression" of some both on various forums and in real life baffles me.
It's quite an interesting question I think.
In "real life" when in peri, I had a shocking temper that I really had to try hard to control. The older I get however the less I can be bothered. I'm much more layed back these days.
Anyone else feel the same.
Mrs Brown
-
Yes, me (see post above) :)
I don't think there is always a reason as surely personality type comes into it somewhere. Some people are naturally more placid and compliant than others and we have probably all known someone who likes the sound of their own voice and shouts others down and butts in. I have certainly met people like this on internet forums and in real life.
My experience is that on the whole MM is certainly one of the better forums, maybe that s because we are all of a similar age and in the same boat and know how it feels.
-
I'm the other way round ::). I had pre-menstrual anger, things that didn't bother me all month would make me fly in an instant. Anger went the moment the bleed began. Until the next month.
When I was working as a Medical Secretary for a Psychologist I learned a lot about communication, something that I wasn't taught within our family :-\ where it was all shouting :'(. As a child I buried my head into a book with hands over the ears many times.
There is 1 family member than can rile me within seconds so I have little contact these days ......... as can drivers on the 'phone or driving outside the speed limits.
-
I agree.
No matter what walk of life or whatever forum you are on there are always those who like to ....searching for a word here....be heard...be in charge.....be the top dog.
I just wonder if that is a forum persona or if that's the way it is in the real world.
I've watched women in shops etc.....putting their point forward...in an aggressive way. It gets them no where to be honest as the people they are complaining to just shut off.
As my mother used to say......you catch more flies with honey than you do with ****.
Had a way with words did my mother ;D
It's true though.
Mrs Brown.
-
Aww, BJ! You're always just lovely! :) I think the 'mellowness' is something we have earned, don't you? xxxxx
Mrs. B, I think adding hormones in can be a bit choppy - I've had a few 'personality changes' myself whilst experimenting with HRT and frankly I don't care for that part! I like myself much better off HRT, or on a very low dose as I am now. Any more than that and things get crazy and wonky (hence why I haven't started Testosterone just yet)! If I do start it at some point in the future and turn into a right stroppy old boot, please DO all pull me up right away! Hopefully Hubby will anyway - he's getting good at spotting these things,bless him! xxxxx
-
I always preferred my Manager to be male than female. I could write a book about woman pushing their points as well as men watching their backs so that neither were suitable to 'manage' staff at any level >sigh<
I think that family dynamics play a huge part in how some people react too. Fear about not being 'heard' can cause stress and anger. Something I grew up with and which I had no answer to until many years later.
A few years ago I was stationary at a set of traffic-lights with a queue behind. I could see that the road to my right and left was very busy and knowing that the town can be a bottle-neck at that junction, I held fire even though the lights changed 3 times. There was no where to place my vehicle but the bloke in his smart Merc behind began flashing his lights. I put my flashes on, got out and wandered back, suggesting that he get out of his car "I have something to show you". He did get out and I led him (not quite by the hand) to the road so that he could see the problem. "You're not local obviously" I told him as I got back into my car. He got my point and the others were grinning wildly from their cars.
I would also hand dog owners a poo bag if they were unable to pick up after their dog/s had made mess ......... "I think you may require at least one of these?" ......... no shouting, simply a pointed message.
-
Tempest....I think you are right. It can be very choppy...great way of explaining it. I know nothing about Testosterone. Do you think that again it could cause mood or personality changes. And if it did would we be aware or would it be up to others around us to tell us....if they were brave enough ::)
Such a difficult time of life though.
I never had a temper when I was younger. It wasn't until early peri that it all of a sudden appeared. It has gone just as easily as it appeared. Now I will do anything to avoid a row. I just get very very quiet....lol. Hubby says it's not a good sign.
CLKD, I always preferred a male boss to a female one. Much easier to work with I found.
Mrs Brown
-
Some people need to be right, whatever the cost and whether they are or not. Some look for arguments and are so full of anger. They respond to situations and what others say inappropriately as they are reacting to past pain. If you add unbalanced hormones into the mix.....
I often think it would be useful training for managers to have the opportunity to try and get a large class of 4 year olds to tidy up ( not that it would be fair to the children). What works with children works with adults. Shouting, anger and demoralising does not work, particularly long term. Praise for any behaviour that is in the right direction, approval, respect, appreciation and humour works.
-
You are so right, Ju Ju! xxxxx
-
For me personally Mrs. B - I can feel hormones 'taking over' when I take HRT, and I really don't care for it much! It's the thing I struggle with the most. :o
I read about a lady in DM who took testosterone replacement and her husband pulled her up saying 'you're barking at me'. I think it can make you aggressive, especially if it's not really needed. I don't think we need to/should use these things nescessarily long term, especially in the same doses as when younger- I see HRT as something to 'ease the way' and I think it should be adjusted age appropriately, as all kinds of problems may ensue in my opinion if not.
The women over at the US website Hysteresisters are very clued up on this - they rarely stay on the same dose of HRT for years after their surgeries, and many say they don't need Testosterone as they get older.
I always admire Cubagirl on here -she has sensibly adjusted her HRT over the years to her needs at the time, even though she had a full hysterectomy and ovaries removed (I hope I'm not embarrassing you if you're reading in, Cubagirl), and is now on a low dose that suits her. It shows, too. She's a lovely lady who is doing just what feels right/fits with her time of life right now. And surely that is the very best guide - how you feel, not necessarily following 'guidelines'. xxxxx
-
It depends on basic personality type but I've no doubt that the lack of caring hormones in menopause makes you give less of a s*** what others think.Plus the virtual world makes people bolder.
I don't really think it's about gender- I've worked with great males and females but I've also worked with horrible and scheming people of both sexes. On balance though, I think females are definitely the most deadly of the species...I really can't be doing with Queen Bee syndrome and I just cannot stomach cliques of any sort.
We are all going through turbulent times and generally I have found most women on the forum loving and helpful.
What I do detect at times is a lack of emotional intelligence- controversial perhaps but I think that it's an important point to make. we all have strong opinions, some are more vocal than others but please consider what you are posting in light of the fact that we are all different and it's different strokes for different folks and that we would do well to remember this and try and present as balanced a view as possible. Now, before you are all up in arms, I'm not suggesting that everyone is guilty of this...I just think that we should all get in the habit of reviewing before hitting the send button.
Personally I've found the site and the support a godsend but I've detected sourness that wasn't there before so I think that we need to cool our jets a little bit!
With love and best wishes to you all- life is too short to bicker xxx
-
In my case it's hard to tell as I've always had a bit of a temper when pushed. Not something which happens often thankfully, but I do explode occasionally. I'm great at saying what I should or would do in a given situation. ;D I tend to skulk off & start frantically cleaning these days instead.
On here I try to be mindful of how folk feel about the written word. Doesn't always work, but that's life.
Tempest :oops: you're making me blush. ;D Have to say I don't always feel sensible. I'm relieved that medical profession have not yet taken away my patches. One GP did suggest, a while back, that my low dose wasn't worth taking as it was too low to be of much effect. I begged to differ & here I am still using half a 25mg patch.
-
Och, lassie! 'Cool our jets' - I just love that phrase! Hope youre doing ok these days, Michele - still hoping to share a scone and a blether with you at some point in the 'real world'. ;) :)xxxxx
-
I'm up for it chica if you are. Thought I'd leave you alone for a wee while as you've been having a rough ride ( what I did type was " as you're property mental right now" but see, I reviwed my post and thought better of it! )
Oh Tempest, I'm only kidding as I know you've got a great sense of humour and I'm safe in the knowledge that I'm more mental than you...
and no,I'm not making light of mental health issues- I'm suffering from these too.
But it would be good to go into a genteel coffee shop/ tearoom and start chucking scones about. You first though on account of your previous experience!
Love a'ways x
-
Ha ha! Cubagirl, i'm the same! Hubby says 'oh no. She's away with the mad cleaning again', and then he beats a hasty retreat..... ;D
Science doesn't know everything- if the half patch does it for you then it's the very ticket, as they say! You ARE sensible - you listen to your body which a lot of us don't have the knack of (I'm trying to learn)! Right now, it's telling me to go and make a cuppa and a toasted teacake, so obligingly I'm going to listen....... ;) xxxxx
-
Oooohhh- lovely x
-
Michele - :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: - Luss tea rooms. Has to be done.....preferably when it's full of a coach load of Japanese tourists.We'll tell them it'a a 'ye olde Scottish custom'....... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: xxxxx
-
You should come here. We could go to the Greenock cruise terminal and throw scones at the poor buggers wandering about the Boak Mall looking confused. Greenock Glasgow. Yeah right!
I'll PM you to T and scone something up .x
-
Wait! This thread is about 'aggression in the menopause'......does assaulting folk with scones count? I think it mightily well does.........Must be the Testosterscone....... (somebody lock me up - please. Sorry ladies)! ;) ;D xxxxxx
-
Interesting thread this. I know that for many years women have been labeled as becoming aggressive, hysterical and over emotional through menopause but I think if you look at any group, male or female, struggling with difficult health conditions, you find people who are often tired, in pain, frightened, angry, bad tempered and sometimes rude and aggressive. I think the way people manage difficult health situations and stress can vary according to their personality and temperament. Some people are aggressive and nasty irrespective of whether they are ill or not, equally some people are kind and gentle irrespective of what they are experiencing.
In other words some people are aggressive, sarcastic, patronizing and bullying, it's just inherent in their nature.
As far as forums are concerned, I only have experience of this one; I've never looked at any others. I have concluded from watching the activity on this site that the vast majority of women (and men if they are participating incognito) are kind and caring souls needing support of some kind and wanting to offer comfort reassurance and support to others too. I'm frequently really touched by the examples of kindness here. However, as I discussed on the thread 'a need for a bit more sensitivity', which was before your time on the forum Mrs. B, there are unfortunately some who like to swagger around, advising but also frequently dictating, throwing out sarcastic rude and unkind comments and trying to dominate.
There will always be those in a collective situation who like to wrestle control, to throw their weight around, We all recognise them in real life, you get examples every where; that particular member of the church council, WI, reading groups, school PTA groups, charity shops and committees, the choir. We've all met their types but a forum offers them the freedom of being incognito, removes the natural constraints a real life situation dictates, they can roll up their sleeves and strut around dropping sarcastic digs when it takes their fancy, acting as if they are a member of admin. Often they are narcissists with an egotistical admiration of their own attributes and like nothing better to puff themselves up displaying their talents and knowledge. A forum is probably like a drug to these types, a quick fix for them. Often these people are lacking in something, that's why they have the need to constantly crave attention and praise.
Peri hasn't made me more aggressive. I've always been fiery; I grew up with four brothers, that makes you pretty tough, confident and assertive. They taught me to box, play rugby, so physically I've always been pretty fearless but I'm a tough old bird generally. I'm never intimidated and will not and never have taken any nonsense from anyone. You can be strong and powerful without being rude and aggressive though. I've always despised bullies and would take them out at school if I witnessed it. I often think those who stand behind the bully and allow that sort of behaviour to continue are as bad as the bully themselves.
I was discussing different personality types on forums recently with one of my brothers who's an expert on personality profiling. Fascinating stuff. Apparently there's always the narcissist who struts their stuff. Hubby is on a couple of specialist car forums and he says it's the same there too, though the guys are much less tolerant of the narcissistic know it all types They are much less polite in their handling of them!
-
I'll pack my case and head for Luss ;) - we discovered it a couple of years ago and Fell in Love ......... they does a great evening meal too!
A family member would clean ferociously pre-menstrually then collapse into a heap as soon as the bleed began. Every month, I knew not to contact her as there were no mobiles in those days ::)
One cannot tell a true narcissist on a Forum, one has to live with 1 to see it at work :(
I can't find that particular thread :-\
-
Well we formed a MM choir etc before. How about a scone throwing contest? That's if you can resist eating them first!
I find this personality thing fascinating. DH has studied and used personality profiling in his work. I had mine profiled and it was scarily accurate. It helps to understand and accept and even celebrate people who think and operate in different way to yourself. For example, my Dad has the tendency to want to know details that go over my head or seem unimportant to me. It used to irritate me. He was a scientist when he worked and details are important in science. Thank goodness there are people like my Dad. My qualities lie elsewhere, mainly in a caring, supportive role, which helped me as a teacher of young children.
We all have qualities, which are of value, as long they are not taken to an extreme and pushing out other qualities. The need to be boss and take control can be seen as potential leadership qualities without the balance of being aware and caring of others. Any quality taken to extreme can be dysfunctional, even caring for others if personal boundaries are not there.
-
You seem to be raising two issues Mrs B – and wondering if they are potentially related? The first – the effect of replacement hormones, specifically testosterone on temperament and behaviour, and the second this forum.
Re the hormones – I know that some private specialists replace testosterone as a matter of course as part of HRT because it is assumed women are deficient, and without testing. However most women who are given this hormone are given it because of symptoms that are caused by deficiency in it – notably lack of libido, tiredness, muscle pain, fatigue, lethargy etc. In most cases replacement is given in tiny amounts and the aim is that it boosts T levels but still within the physiological range for women. This is to avoid the “male†side effects – excess hair growth in the wrong place, deepened voice, and as you mention – aggression. These would all go hand in hand ie you would not experience aggression if you were not experiencing the other side effects, so that most women experience none of these because the amount given is so small. Many women have been able to function only as a result of obtaining this T – in my case for example it was clear that my levels were so low due to some of the symptoms given above and I am much improved now – though still not back to “normal†whatever that is.
In terms of menopause – once we reach there whether on HRT or not, hormone levels are usually much lower and more stable. We used to discuss years ago that some of us felt we had lost some of that spark, that real enthusiasm and zest for life that we felt when fertile – because our hormones levels did not reach those highs (of oestrogen and testosterone) – nor the lows, that they did previously. Certainly for me – I rarely feel the same excitement, nor anger/irritation - all that pmt! (eg with my husband – we rarely argue now!) that I did throughout my fertile, menstruating years. I am not depressed but on an even keel though, and things don't move me in quite the same way – sad really but that is the result of hormones. Also personally I try to avoid conflict because it is so counter-productive and I think at my age –life seems shorter! Maybe we all feel a bit like that at menopause?
As for this forum – most of the time it seems to work fine – obviously there is banter as there is in real life – but fortunately the aggression and personal nastiness is rare, and I am surprised and puzzled when I encounter it. Re HRT - these instances are equally from women taking HRT and/or testosterone as not! Of course there will be disagreements about treatments and opinions – some of which involves the science - and of course there is a huge mix of stuff on here but most of the time most of us come on here when we have time to give friendly advice, information, provide support, chat – and then get on with our lives the rest of the time! :)
Hurdity x
-
[quote author=Ju Ju link=topic=36277.msg581182#msg581182 date=1497585917
I find this personality thing fascinating. DH has studied and used personality profiling in his work. I had mine profiled and it was scarily accurate. It helps to understand and accept and even celebrate people who think and operate in different way to yourself. For example, my Dad has the tendency to want to know details that go over my head or seem unimportant to me. It used to irritate me. He was a scientist when he worked and details are important in science. Thank goodness there are people like my Dad. My qualities lie elsewhere, mainly in a caring, supportive role, which helped me as a teacher of young children.
[/quote]
Oooh now that does sound interesting Ju Ju. I confuse myself sometimes (I think I'm possibly an extrovert introvert :D)
I believe experiences mould you and age can bring confidence - when I was at school and there was low level bullying I let things go. As I've got older I speak up, more so to defend others.
I'm not always keen on the written word where misinterpretations occur more easily (like in a forum) - I try to skip over any negative posts as coming from a 'life and death' career background I feel there are more important things in the world but understand how words can hurt.
As for aggression, when my hormones are out of balance I do feel more likely to snap and get irritated - the husband throws me a bag of chocolate buttons which seem to help ;D