Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Pollyanna on June 11, 2017, 07:48:53 PM
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I increased my oestrogen only patches from 25mcg to 50mcg, thinking that I'd finally found balance. Been in it now for 9 years but after just a week on 50mcg, my anxiety went through the roof. I felt great for a few days but this afternoon I found myself flying off the handle....short fuse...which isn't normal for me at all.
I feel so lost now and wonder if I need to balance the oestrogen with antidepressants.
I've tried everything else but the anxiety and temper seems to have coincided with increase if iesteogen.
I just quickly googled this and did come up with this symptom as being commin with high doses of unopposed oestrogen.
I don't need progesterone thankfully but I did give bio identical progesterone cream a go a few years ago just to try it.
Blimey, that was awful. I couldn't keep my eyes open and became depressed.
I'm trying to get somewhere between crazy anxious, and depressed.
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Why did you increase your patch dose ?
I'm a long term oestrogen user and when I increase I get worse, not better too
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Hi Annie
I increased it because I was getting low oestrogen symptoms of muscle aches, insomnia, hair loss, hirsutism.
Mind you, I was cutting my 25mcg patches in half. Not good I guess.
I increased to a whole patch and felt much better. I told my GP who suggested I was on too low a dose. I'm very slim and have tiny frame. I'm up to date with bone scans but have osteopenia. I was also getting arthritis in my neck.
I guess that by jumping up from 25 to 50 has been too much for me. I guess I was excited that I had started sleeping properly on 25 and thought by doubling the dose, I'd feel better.
So, you have the same if you have too much?
What do you find you are best on and if you don't mind me asking, what is your BMI? I'm 18.5 and weigh just under 8st.
I also hated the chin hair growth I was getting.
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Sorry Annie, I've just read your list of drugs etc. Good idea to list those but I don't know what some of them are as I've only had to use iesteogen patches.
Perhaps I'm missing out on something.
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I'm not sure what my BMI is but I'm 5'4" and 9.7 st. Nurse said it was a good BMI when I saw her a few months ago (I'm size 10)
When my oestrogen dose is high I go really jittery and a nervous wreck, palps, worn out but on high alert
I started on elleste solo (oestrogen) (max dose) and I was great for 13 years with my ovaries apparently ticking away as best they could
Then I had some sort of hormone crash but with lots of other symptoms so tried estradot patch (75mcg) but seemed high , I think 50mcg is better for me
Tibolone is a steroid like tablet which mimics oestrogen, testosterone and progesterone (I can't really explain it properly) but it seemed too high so I halved the tablet which then brought low oestrogen symptoms (night sweats, bone aches etc)
So now I'm trying oestrogel (oestrogen gel) started on one pump but night sweats were coming back so now on 2 pumps which is helping
And I use a small blob of testosterone each morning
I don't know what to advise purely because of the osteopenia otherwise I'd say stick to the dose that eases symptoms and you're comfortable with x
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Blimey Annie.... you must be fed up with all of that.
It's late now, so please don't feel the need to respond tonight.
I read that you had a hysterectomy and so I'm confused that you were given oral oestrogen, and also tibolone, as that contains progestin.
I was under the impression that those of us who'd had hysterectomy (uterus only removed), only needed oestrogen and were lucky that we could use the bio identical form in patches or gel.
Haha....I feel short changed.
I'm due to see my doc on Thursday but (no disrespect intended to her), she's very young and not a hormone specialist.
Meanwhile, I'm not working and surviving on savings as I've been so unwell with my menopause. I don't recognise myself niwadays.
I used to be a happy and very positive woman, but now I'm not sure how I'll be from day to day.
It's affecting my relationships which gets to me a lot.
This forum was an attempt to connect with people, as I've isolated myself Recently.
X
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Hi, Pollyanna! :welcomemm:
Oh, you wee soul! I've had this happen too - it sounds like too much of a jump up in dose in one go to me! Annie and I share similar experiences with higher estrogen - we both take estrogen only.
May I suggest that you ask for estradot 37.5mcg patches? This is the lowest dose that gives bone protection - 25mcg is too low for that. You sound like you may be in between doses. There can be a little difficulty getting these, as supply is erratic sometimes across the board with estradot.
Alternatively, just cut one of your 25mcg patches in half and add this to your 25mcg and see how you go.
You're in good company here and the ladies are always happy to help if they can.
Hugs,
Tempest xxxxx
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Aw, that's lovely of you and, yes, I seem to be stockpiling 25mgc and 50mcg so I think I'll need to do some patchworking.
It's quite tough, and as I live alone (which has never bothered me before), I have felt really rough recently.
I dudnt know 37.5 was the optimal level for bone protection.
Blimey, I've been only using 12.5 (mostly), for 9 years. No wonder I've looked and felt so bad. I'm surprised I wasn't advised this when I had bone scans. I am very proactive and thought I'd researched thoroughly.
I know what you mean about supply of patches. I always use Estradot brand as they're quite small and stick well.
Thank you. It's great to hear your tips. X
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You're very welcome, Pollyanna! :)
I'm 'patchworking' too at the moment as I'm very sensitive to increases. I've just started back with a 25mcg estradot as I had some of these left over, but I'll be snipping Evorel patches when I get my prescription filled.
We're good company here and someone is always around,even in the wee small hours, and there are other chat threads too. I hope you'll come to think of us as friends. :) xxxxx
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Pollyanna
Some hysterectomised ladies do use progesterone, especially if they've suffered endometriosis prior to the hysterectomy as some fragments of uterus could still be left, some women actually feel better in themselves adding in progesterone
You may need testosterone too once your oestrogen level is good, on a low dose oestrogen though you wouldn't need to be adding much of T
Low T can cause a decline in wellbeing, anxiety and low mood
It does all get confusing that's why it's a good idea to gather as much info as possible before you see gp x
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Just to clarify - according to the info out there and on this site the minimum patch dose for bone protection is 50 mcg. The optimum is obviously higher than this - as the effect on bone turnover is dose dependent. There is presumably a dose at which improvement will be marginal. A few years ago I found a paper on all of this which gave the oestrogen doses and bone turnover but haven't been able to find it since!
However if you feel the sudden increase (because 25 mcg is such a low dose) is too much at once then I would go with Tempest's suggestion to cut a quarter the 50 mcg patch to give 37.5 mcg ( maybe save the pieces in case of a shortage) for a couple of weeks or so. Since you have your ovaries then 50 mcg should be OK ultimately and it's a question of staying with it until you reap the benefits. 50 mcg is the standard post-menopausal dose so shouldn't actually be too much for someone in your position - you just need a little time to adjust after being so long on a low dose.
Hurdity x
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Totally agree with information gathering Annie.
Haha, the GP's at my practice dread me coming in because I'm always researching or trying something.
I mentioned in another thread that last year I paid privately to see a consultant at the Marion Gluck clinic as yes, I wanted to try the 'compounded' HRT.
So I was prescribed oestrogen/progesterone and tiny but of testosterone in a losenge that you dissolve against your gum. Thought I'd try that, rather than the cream.
But i do not get on with progesterone. I tried it inc that way (as part of a compound), and then I bought some progesterone cream from a reputable seller (can't get bio identical progesterone cream in NHS my GP said), but again I felt like jumping off a cliff after only two weeks on it.
I was using s tiny amount but it was powerful stuff. My boobs increased size and I was so depressed. My hair looked fantastic though...haha.
I just seem to be sensitive to any kind of medication.
Strangely enough, I've also become sensitive to vitamin supplements too.
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Ah, thanks for clarifying Hurdity! :thankyou: I know my GP at one point consulted the BNF which stated that at 37.5mcg Estradot offered some bone protection, whereas 25mcg did not but you're right - for any full benefit it's 50mcg plus. xxxxx
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Good job you don't need progesterone then, I don't know why I presumed you'd had ovaries removed too? But saying that sometimes after hysterectomy the function of the ovaries is compromised (happened to me) then once they're damaged, lacking blood supply they shrivel and disappear
Just remember to increase slowly , let yourself get used to a small increase each time x
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You're all fab! 🤗
It's funny to think of us all cutting bits and pieces of patches.
Yes Hurdity, think you're right about doubling dose too quickly.
That's one of my idiosyncrasies...impatience. I should do it gradually.
I remember about 5 years ago when I lived in Bristol - my health centre there, had a well woman clinic and I was given fairly regular check ups etc for menopause.
I guess it's all part of NHS cutbacks but there is nithing like that where I live now.
Do any if you have a good clinic where you are?
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I don't think we have one but last year our surgery employed a well woman nurse. She's lovely and still learning and looks forward to our catch ups as I've taught her things she didn't know about , and I've learned them from here x
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Haha.....I'm now going to have a nightmare about my poor crumbling skeleton.
I didn't know I should have been taking a higher dose :-\
Yep, I reckon my ovaries are also like two shrivelled raisins, floating around.
If I didn't laugh, I'd cry.....
Hugs 🤗
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Ah, thanks for clarifying Hurdity! :thankyou: I know my GP at one point consulted the BNF which stated that at 37.5mcg Estradot offered some bone protection, whereas 25mcg did not but you're right - for any full benefit it's 50mcg plus. xxxxx
Yes that's right Tempest - as you say, even very small doses of oestrogen can help with bone protection like the Menostar (12.5 mcg) in US which is offered without progestogen - but of course as the effect is dose dependent, the more you have the better!
Hurdity x
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You're all fab! 🤗
It's funny to think of us all cutting bits and pieces of patches.
Yes Hurdity, think you're right about doubling dose too quickly.
That's one of my idiosyncrasies...impatience. I should do it gradually.
I remember about 5 years ago when I lived in Bristol - my health centre there, had a well woman clinic and I was given fairly regular check ups etc for menopause.
I guess it's all part of NHS cutbacks but there is nithing like that where I live now.
Do any if you have a good clinic where you are?
The nearest menopause clinic to me is 65 miles away! Fortunately I have a very good gynae specialism GP at the local practice who has always given me whatever HRT I want. However I have not put the prescription of Testosterone to the test and had to go to Bristol for that. At the moment and two years down the line - I am still using the second box obtained from there!
It's not too late Pollyanna!
Hurdity x
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Interesting Hurdity.
I've started taking a quarter of a 25mg dose of sertraline today. I've had them from a while ago.
I just needed a bit of 'oomph' but without the anxiety.
This has helped. I know....I seem to be very sensitiv to tiny amounts of drugs.
However, I know this anti depressant journey and so when I see my GP later this week, I'm hoping I can get some testosterone.
What I'm afraid of though, is raised anxiety and, dare I say, hair growth on chin.
Did it give you anxiety or just good energy?
X