Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Wrensong on May 20, 2017, 03:26:11 PM
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Sorry ladies - just found I had accidentally posted this earlier in wrong section & can't delete it ::! Hope no-one has to read it twice!
Was prescribed T some time ago by a well-respected Gynae to help with the following:-
disproportionate fatigue/poor stamina
muscle loss & weakness
reduced libido
She also said it should improve night sweats & insomnia. Gynae has since retired.
Have deferred starting T as 21 months after adding full HRT to Vagifem, I'm told that residual night sweats, flushing & room for further improvement with VA suggest insufficient oestrogen, possibly due to poor absorption from my current HRT - Evorel Conti. Failed trials of alternative combi HRT regimes mean I'm back with the Evorel & therefore (with hair receding at temples) still don't feel it sensible to add in the T.
Poor sleep has long been a problem. Was never a good sleeper even as a child, but at uni, developed a chronic pain condition that's disrupted sleep ever since. At the onset of peri & right through to post-meno 12 years later, night sweats have further reduced sleep. These have thankfully improved somewhat on Evorel but before HRT, were intense & each one long lasting with body seemingly reacting inappropriately in terror as if to sudden danger, making it very difficult to get back to sleep after onset each night.
Have Googled & found many refs to the importance of good T levels for men's sleep & a few to its role in sleep for women, but would be very interested to hear whether forum members who've tried T found it improved their sleep.
Think I just need hope of improved sleep for the future & am holding on to the thought T might be the missing link. That said, GP has recently reiterated that the surgery will not allow me to continue on HRT past age 60 (despite osteopenia), due in her words to increased risks. I thought this thinking had changed with the new NICE guidelines (of ?Nov 2015) and as meno symptoms were severe for a decade despite waiting until 3 years post-meno for improvement before starting HRT, this statement has shocked & scared me, fearing a return to very poor QOL if symptoms return at their worst on stopping HRT.
Any thoughts &/or experiences of improvements (or otherwise) on T would be welcome.
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Hi Wrensong - you could just delete the words of the post and direct readers to this thread - to save having several on the go!
You're right that if you are still having symptoms of low oestrogen - flushes and sweats - then you should correct this first. You need to be at least on the minimum dose of oestrogen that controls these basic menopausal symptoms before attempting testosterone. The last thing you want is to become testosterone dominant - which is what happens to most women post-menopause who do not take HRT (have you noticed that many older women look like men?). I'm not saying this for vanity - but if you are going to supplement with something - get the female hormone right first!
I took it for the reasons you gave for it being prescribed to you - muscle weakness and pain after exercise ( my own GP shrugged her shoulders, said it was due to my age and wanted to refer me for fibromyalgia - but I was having none of it!), extreme tiredness after exercise and yes the complete lack of libido and very poor response.
Some women find they need a higher dose of oestrogen when using some of the synthetic progestogens which can interfere with the beneficial effects of oestrogen - so you may prefer to try a cyclical HRT, but that would mean having a bleed and having to acclimatise to progestogens and withdrawal each month.
I also wonder about taking testosterone along with an androgenic progestogen like norethisterone and how these interact, and how they affect SHBG ( sex hormone binding globulin) and free testosterone. I don't think there has been sufficient research not least because there is hardly any research on T replacement in women (because it has mostly been unlicensed), so especially not alongside different HRT regimes.
I would suggest that the addition of T in women would have the opposite effect and is designed to reduce fatigue. I do sleep far too deeply and I am extremely tired in the mornings and this is getting worse - but it started well before I started taking T and I had hoped I would be a bit more lively in the mornings - alas no!
Have you seen my thread testosterone here we go in private lives? Probably a bit out of date now and may not answer any of your questions? I'll bump it anyway.
I have never heard of T being used for night sweats - and can't imagine why one would use this in preference to oestrogen. However my gynae did say it was sometimes the missing link for some women - but perhpas this would be women in surgical menopause who are definitely taking a decent amount of oestrogen. I knew mi levels were Ok because I wasn't getting any menopause symptoms - nevertheless soon after starting it I increased my oestrogen dose slightly ( by 12.5 mcg) just to make sure I didn't tip the balance to T dominance!
As for the stop at 60 thing - absolute rubbish. If you are otherwise healthy you can stay on it as long as you like - as long as your GP explains the risks as known. The info on this website for example states that between 60 and 70 the risks are equal to the benefits if you are still experiencing menopause symptoms. The same GP who shrugged at me has got several of my neighbours to come off hRT at over 60 because "it can cause cancer" and to me "let's hope it hasn't already" - needless to say since she said this I have never been to see her and don't intend to.
Quality of life is very definitely important!!!! Your surgery is out of date! There are updated recommendations on HRT from the British Menopause Society/ Women;s Helath Concern. Here is a fact sheet from BMS:
https://thebms.org.uk/publications/consensus-statements/hormone-replacement-therapy/
I would direct your surgery to this in the politest possible way if they do not comply with your wishes!
You might need to try a different hRT before trying the T - what have you tried so far? Also I can't remember how old you are.
Sorry if this is a bit disjointed- I just wrote things as they came to be and then looked back at your post. Hope it helps anyway....
Hurdity x
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Haha, that is a bit of a wild statement Hurdity,
'The last thing you want is to become testosterone dominant - which is what happens to most women post-menopause who do not take HRT (have you noticed that many older women look like men?).'
I don't know of any older women 70 plus who have taken HRT and certainly none who now look like men. Do you by any chance have a scientific paper that you could post here to back up this statement. I'd be most interested to read it.
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Oh, gosh! No. I was just sitting talking to a lovely lady called Liz who I mentioned in one of my other posts who is now 62 and had an oopherectomy at 42. She used HRT for 5 years and then had to stop after extensive testing by specialists of incredibly bad - and I mean BAD - migraines that occurred on any type of ERT.
Liz looks nothing like a man - lovely shoulder length bobbed hair, clear fine skin and not a bad figure! She also works in an incredibly demanding role still - so has energy. No beard, no moustache or otherwise swarthy features. (P.S. - no heart disease, osteoporosis, diabetes or menopause symptoms of any kind nowadays - hers went after 18 months off HRT fwiw). xxxxx
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My mother has beautiful thick hair, almost unlined skin, has only just started greying and went through meno at 45. Heart as strong as an ox, never broken a bone, brain as sharp as a pin. I only hope I'm like that at that age! We should never generalise, we all react to hormonal changes in different ways, no two of us will be the same. HRT is great for some and not necessary for others. I'm sure few of us will suddenly morph into blokes.
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Neither my mother or my aunts ever took HRT. They all lived to a grand old age, in fact my mother is still with us at nearly 95.
Not one of them looked like any man I have ever seen. They were ladies through and through. Yes they probably had the odd chin hair but that would be dealt with.
Not something that any new member who can't take HRT would want to read. A very sweeping and depressing statement.
I maybe missing something though as I'm not well informed re scientific papers on this subject. So if there is anything that I need to read then I would be very interested.
Lovely to hear your mum is doing really well ER. Long may it last. Although my mother now has dementia she still remains feminine and ladylike I'm glad to say.
Mrs Brown
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To return to your original question Wrensong I don't believe testosterone does help sleep but I do feel progesterone does, or that has been my experience anyway x
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Your Mum's sound like wonderful ladies, ER and Mrs Brown! :) xxxxx
And yes, Peri - Prog. can help sleep as my Consultant told me, but I understand a few ladies on the Estrogel/Utro thread have said that they feel restless at night on it and bladder frequency due to it's diuretic effect and possibly burning has been a problem too for some. Alas, quality sleep can be so elusive during the meno. years and pinpointing one cause can be tricky! xxxxx
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Hi Wrensong
I am prescribed a tiny amount of daily Testim gel as well as Oestrogel gel and progesterone tablets under Studd's regime, plus vitamin D as I also have osteopenia (for those who don't know, it's limited bone density before you reach osteoporosis status).
Been taking a tiny bit of Testim (testosterone gel) daily for the past 9 months.
The regime has changed my life- physically and emotionally- so much for the better.
I did loads of clinical research before seeing Studd privately (had no choice as my 12 year GP insisted at 56 years I was too old for HRT and anti-depressants were the way forward). Clearly hard of thinking clinically
Anyway, a long and often repeated story by me in the past:
1. I only discovered I had osteopenia when I saw Studd re my left hip pains so you need MORE, NOT LESS oestrogen, ideally in gel form (it's safer and more effective than tablets) and I would haven't found this out on the NHS. My GP told me to find an osteopath in Yellow Pages!
2. Very small daily doses of Testim (the size of small pea) gel are clinically proven to improve libido, improve energy, motivation, assist sleep, etc., in women.
3. You need testosterone in very small but adequate levels to help the oestrogen levels/HRT work effectively together. In other words you need BOTH.
4. I do NOT have my own beard/excessive hair growth on my face or body since being on the regime, only my head hair which was thinning at a alarming rate, due to lack of appropriate hormone levels. It's growing well now and my hip pains have now gone. Skin has improved dramatically, I sleep well, no VA, no low mood.
It's has given me more energy, improved libido, more motivation, stable mood, etc., etc.
5. SO very small doses of Testim are fine to take with other HRT preparations and are actually needed to enhance those.
6. I am a Chartered Scientist, amongst other many relevant professional qualifications, and sad geek that I am, spent months researching HRT options before deciding on my current which works extremely well (for me).
7. The NHS HRT "guidelines" are just that - "guidelines". No reason you have to stop due to your age at all especially if you have osteopenia - you will need on-going oestrogen treatment (ideally gel format) as you will be at high risk of osteoporosis later on in life
8. I do realise some posters on MM may mean well by posting their subjective comments on treatment regimes and their views on particular hormones prescribed for treatment of menopausal symptoms. But if they aren't qualified medical practitioners, it's just their subjective views, not from a trained medical professional with all your health records to review.
9. Always a bit dodgy to take advice from an untrained poster on the internet regarding your health options in my view (including me)!
Personally I would research as much as possible before considering treatment option, as I did.
But in my personal experience and in considering all the numerous research papers I read before hand, if you have osteopenia you need the maximum dose of oestrogen possible for you to prevent osteoporosis in the future, daily Vit D, and tiny amounts of testosterone to work effectively with the oestrogen regime.
If you want all the clinical research papers confirming this do let me know and will happily forward thses on.
Good luck but read carefully other poster's subjective views, is my suggestion.
Freckles x
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Great post, Freckles! I believe your approach is the most sound way of ensuring you receive effective treatment and before I embark on HRT again, I am now researching all my options and looking at those specialists best placed to offer me what I need within the private sector as I've had very luke warm treatment (I'm being kind here) since my surgery via the NHS. I have wasted 2 years and experienced must distress trying (nay begging) for treatment.
Sadly, this holistic approach isn't offered via the NHS and I am awaiting the results of a DEXA re-scan. Needless to say, I shall be devastated if I've lost significant bone density by not being able to secure any HRT at all for the first year following my surgery, despite no contraindications. I'm impressed that Professor Studd is so thorough when it comes to considering bone density and offering all ladies vitamin D - it's a must that is woefully neglected by the NHS.
What also worries me is that the NICE guidelines state that Testosterone should be offered to women who need it following hysterectomy (and especially oopherectomy), but in my case and many other women's cases here on MM who are in a similar position to myself, they are denied it.
I'm so very glad that your regime is working wonderfully for you - another very happy Professor Studd lady! xxxxx
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Thanks for these posts.
Freckles, interesting post, thank you. Is there any issue with taking testim with synthetic progesterone? Did Prof Studd state this at all?
x
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I normally bypass HRT threads as I have no knowledge or experience of the stuff but the title of this thread caught my interest. I sleep well now but I didn't used to.
I can't comment on the HRT issues but I felt I wanted to respond to the generalisation that 'most older women who do not use it end up looking like men'! Where did that come from? My mother never had HRT in her life, of any sort and she was a dainty, feminine gentle woman. My mother in law was less petite and had heavier features but would never have been mistaken for a man. I favour male attire and short hair on the whole but I have never seen anything remotely masculine looking back at me in the mirror. In fact I have a friend of a different sexual orientation who looks far more mannish (by choice) than I ever would ::)
I think it is unwise to make generalised statements without back up as it is guaranteed to cause a backlash as can be seen in the responses in this thread :-X
Freckles, thank you for your contribution regarding osteopenia and hip pain, I have both but have not gone down the HRT route by choice. My mother had the same but it never developed into osteoporosis and she was fit and healthy into her 80s and would still be here today if stomach cancer (as a result of a lifeltime of pernicious anaemia) had not got hold of her. So I will take my chances, I am too old now to worry about all the ifs and buts and maybes of my choices.
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Thank you to everyone who has responded to this thread - I really appreciate the advice & will go back through it carefully when I have more time later. I had no idea the topic would turn out to be so controversial & now wonder whether I shouldn't have asked! I know all advice was well meant and apologise if anyone felt upset by any of the content.
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Wrensong, nothing you said was in any way upsetting or controversial. Your posts are always polite, informative and well considered. I feel sure everyone is very happy to help you in any way they can, please ask away, you are a lovely member and we value your contribution too. x
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Absolutely what Elizabethrose said, Wrensong! You said absolutely nothing wrong and we are always happy to help in any way we can. Much love! xxxxx
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Tempest, I dread to think what sort of state I'd be in by now if hadn't found Studd and gone onto his treatment regime! My NHS consultations were appalling.
Noheroicsplease- I use a tiny (less than pea size) bit of Testim gel daily together with Utrogestan progesterone for half the dosage and half the time than suggested in the NHS guidelines (100 mg a day for seven days) as well as three pumps of Estrogel and they all work well together, plus Vit D. Just as well I'm on that dose of progesterone as I'm progesterone sensitive/intolerant and I simply wouldn't be able to cope with the heavy NHS suggested dosage- it's too much, for too long,IMO. Professor Studd did not say anything about any issues using Testim and Utrogestan. As he tends to prescribe this regime (or variations of it) to most of the woman he sees, I figure he knows his stuff!
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Crikey - whoever stated 'will look like a man' is on a different Planet! ALL my maternal relatives including my Mum never mentioned HRT. Mum is now 90, walking 2/3 miles weekly, keeps a tidy garden of nearly an acre with the help of 2 men who mow the lawns. Her skin is soft. Her hair soft. She has no medication other than the occasional Paracetamol. She would be and actually I am, highly offended at this statement! I'll be having a closer look at my non-HRT friends ......... and as an aside, Himself doesn't look like an old man either and he certainly ain't on any medication!
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which is what happens to most women post-menopause who do not take HRT (have you noticed that many older women look like men?)
:-\
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Hi Noheroics. to answer your question, Studd sometimes prescribes oestragel, testim and synthetic progesterone (Provera) instead of utrogestan. He did for me cos I didn't get a bleed after 7 days utro, so switched to Provera 5mg instead which is synthetic. Hope this helps. This was when the regime was working for me of course xxx
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p.s. Wrensong, not at all! We all love your posts xxx
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Wow, just wanted to add to the people with older relatives who didn't take hrt but who have stayed feminine looking. Hrt isn't for everyone and I hate the thought of women coming on here thinking it will solve their problems and is necessary for everyone. In my non scientific mind, all the women in my family have been affected by having too much oestregen at times during peri, and have found things much easier once hormones have settled down.
What works for one woman may not work for another, surely that's the message we should learn from this forum
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Bless your heart, CLKD!
This is especially hurtful to you and other ladies here as I know you couldn't take systemic HRT (correct me if I'm wrong) - and we do have other ladies here who are recovering right now from estrogen positive cancers too, and they certainly don't need to be reading things like this!
Sending hugs your way (and hoorah for your lovely Mum)! xxxxx
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Nothing to do with what you posted Wrensong....
I think none of our mothers have become masculine. I have very fond memories of a good few great aunts who were the sweetest of old ladies. The smell of lavender and Coty's powder spring to mind.
Not a masculine one amongst them.
Mrs Brown
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It really upset and hurt me too. I have no choice and I don't want to think that I am going to become more masculine - it's bad enough as it is xxx
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It really upset and hurt me too. I have no choice and I don't want to think that I am going to become more masculine - it's bad enough as it is xxx
You won't become more masculine and remember only a small proportion of women end up taking hrt, most don't . Try to put it out of your mind.
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Ooer ouch!
I had no idea that what was intended as a light-hearted aside in my response to Wrensong – would be so misconstrued and so incorrectly reported.
edelweiss - I apologise if you have perceived that what I have said is hurtful to you - hopefully you will see that this was not my intention!
Firstly my post was for Wrensong – it was lengthy and was intended to try to help her with her many queries – I did apologise at the end that it was a bit disjointed as I wrote things as they occurred to me. Posts like this take some time to think about and to write, so I make no apologies for not spending hours editing each post so that it is absolutely clear – I just do my best to help if I can.
I will explain what I meant in a minute – but what a pity that so many of you read what I wrote as “many†and changed it to “most†or “willâ€. Babyjane you actually summarised what I said incorrectly and put it in quotes!! Telling me I am unwise to make generalised statements. The generalised statement you talk about was an observation which I am entitled to make!!! And why on earth are you all talking about your mothers and aunts?! Heavens!! I did not and never would say that all older women will look like men if they don't take HRT.
Since you are all so interested in this topic I will explain what I meant. My comments related to Wrensong's question about using testosterone in addition to her current HRT (Evorel conti – oestrogen and norethisterone). It is generally accepted by gynaecologists that it is important to supplement oestrogen first to adequate levels before testosterone ( for obvious reasons). If you are post-menopausal and supplement testosterone while oestrogen levels are still low – then you could be at risk from becoming relatively dominant in testosterone with resultant androgenic effects.
Freckles I did not and never would say that testosterone supplementation per se (on top of an adequate oestrogen/progesterone regime) at the right dose ( within physiological range) would cause women to develop male characteristics.
It is well established that after menopause oestrogen levels drop massively and permanently in a short space of time to a fraction of their former values. It is also well established that testosterone levels decline mostly fairly steadily but not in the same dramatic way as oestrogen ( excepting surgical menopause ). Therefore women become relatively more testosterone dominant during at least part of the post-menopausal period – this has been written about – and is responsible for the development of androgenic characteristics such as facial hair, deepening voice etc. I would presume that the extent to which this is apparent would vary greatly amongst women – just as our levels of all hormones vary – and that for some (such as those whose oestrogen levels dropped very low) this might be more apparent. I know of no studies ( but I haven't searched) which actually measure this – but the biological principle is there. As an aside, in addition to the facial hair and deepening voices, I had noticed ( as an observation – not a scientific study) that I have seen many older women ( not most!!!) who do look more masculine and I wondered why this was (I have no idea whether they take HRT or not). This was certainly intended as a non-judgmental comment – but just wondering why, and thinking that the known relative T dominance could be an explanation. If you add HRT in the form of oestrogen you will surely lessen the impact of this relative dominance to some extent? Of course this does not mean to say that we would all turn into men if we don't take HRT - (and I never said this!) – but the biological facts of our hormonal changes remain. We all change as we age and the most important thing is to stay as healthy as we possibly can in whatever way is best – with diet, exercise lifestyle, and HRT may play a part.
The main point of my comment was that you would not want to intentionally take more testosterone than needed without sufficient oestrogen because of the potential androgenic effects – especially as these may have a tendency to occur post-menopausally anyway.
The other point I made and which was posed as an open question has not been answered – which is what happens if you add testosterone to an HRT regime which already consist of a testosterone derived progestogen such as norethisterone or levonorgestrel? I thought it was a question worth asking and asking an expert gynae – ideally hoping for an evidence based response.
Remember this is an area of hormone replacement that has been studied very little in women and there are no long term studies into safety nor different dosing nor with different HRT regimes. It is a new area and with the (welcome) provision in the NICE Guidelines is being used more frequently so although we all want to reap the benefits – I feel it is important to be wary and especially as many GPs have insufficient understanding!
I make no apology for rambling and giving my thoughts on the forum - but I am sorry that some women seem to have been upset because they have been misconstrued and at times misquoted.
As for your comments Freckles – of course you will want to let people know about the regime that has worked for you, but it is really necessary to put down all other contributors of this forum and warn off other members because you think they are unqualified or untrained? You know nothing about the qualifications and background of anyone who posts here unless they have volunteered this information or unless you know them personally in real life. In any case, whatever our background most of us do not reveal it, and the forum rules/agreement state that we are all by default non-medical professionals. Further that nothing which is posted on here is intended to be a replacement for medical advice – of which many of us remind members frequently. There would be no point in having this forum if members did not post – the mixture of advice, information, subjective observation and support – which most members do very well. It is an insult to most members and the time and effort put into these varied posts to suggest that taking anyone's advice is “dodgyâ€. Many members have been helped greatly by many other members who give freely of their time to give advice, information and pointers. If any of this was out of line – then Dr Currie would intervene as she does occasionally.
It has taken me over an hour to write this and I would rather have spent the time answering the many posts and queries posed by other members. I normally ignore all these ( sadly becoming all too frequent) digs – but I had to respond to this.
Wrensong - apologies if my comments intended to help you ( with a bit of an aside!) have led to your genuine queries and the topic being derailed.
Hurdity
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Well said Hurdity. I've watched in bemused amazement as this topic has spiralled out of control. Hopefully, that clears up any misunderstandings x
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Nope. 'Many' is still a generalisation and I can't see how it was a 'lighthearted aside' to Wrensong. This is an OPEN FORUM and anyone can read posts here.
We have ladies here, as I have said, who are recovering from estrogen positive cancers. They can't use HRT. They are entitled to be here - this forum is called 'MENOPAUSE matters', not 'HRT Matters'. Anything that even remotely suggests that these women, or any woman, may end up masculinised if they don't take HRT is being very insensitive.
There is nothing to be 'bemused' about, Peri. We need to be kind to all members and respect that some are dealing with difficult times with health issues and that not all can take HRT, and that they may be sensitive to comments such as these - 'lighthearted' or not.
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Wishing everyone a good and restful night, and hope all of us get to be healthy, happy and content soon.
Special love and good luck tomorrow Tempest. Be thinking of you.
Love, xxx
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Interesting reply Hurdity, to say the least.
Pleased to read it some time after I originally posted, so I do appreciate the fact you took time to consider your response
First, to clarify, I have NOT "put down all other contributors because you think they are untrained or qualified".
I simply object to (some) regular posters who appear to be keen to present as being clinical experts, especially with high levels of misleading (subjective) information
It's the equivalent of the pub/backroom lawyer.
It is always helpful to hear of others poster's views, comments and experiences, whether similar to mine or not.
I do, however, have problems with posters on MM who cite very authoritive global comments and opinions about the efficacy and use of HRT treatments regimes or otherwise, whether obtained via the NHS or privately. without being medically qualified to do so.
I have ever only cited my personal experiences, which I hope is useful for women reading this site and for them to consider their personal options.
I note, however, that you kindly,and frequently, very willing offer extensive advice, your non clinical opinion, and have done for some time about HRT treatment regimes.
Some individuals 'may' inadvertently think you are either medically qualified to offer such advice, as you seem to present your views with such conviction?
You wouldn't want possible legal action to ensure after all, so maybe for your own sake make it clear in future posts you make you aren't clinically qualified to comment?
I only mention that as a friend recently successfully sued a similar online poster (actually the forum) on a menopause forum in the US. The laws are a bit different there but seem to apply equally here in the UK.
There is a HUGE difference between posting advice, observations, personal experiences and then offering clinical suggestions which borders on the line of presenting being an "expert".
I'm sure it's most likely the case that you didn't intended your past posts to be construed that your opinion is an authoritative one?
And no doubt you will be keen to make that clear to other posters, in case they misconstrue your opinion as being clinically reliable and valid.
Yes, of course, I do consider it "dodgy" to accept clinical advice from a stranger or strangers from an internet forum.
Who wouldn't? Doh?!
I just "warn off other members because they you think they are unqualified or untrained"?
No, I'm just politely warning other posters not to accept your (and some others) very detailed posts about clinical treatments/regimes to adhere to, crosses the boundary between personal experiences and clinical advice that's all.
Most posters on MM seem to be able to distinguish the difference.
As is often the case on here, what I was saying has been mis-quoted
So read around ladies (and gents) here and Goggle for information. the whole issue of HRT can (initially) be over whelming.
Hurdity, if you feel that you are subject of "too frequent digs" then, maybe ,as a qualified Chartered Scientist, Chartered Psychologist, Consultant Clinical Psychologist in real life, you might take some time out to think about the content and nature of your posts and why so many people object to them, both off and online?
Just a suggestion.
Hope the above clarifies your misperception of my post.
Freckles x
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Nearly forgot- Hurdity - I keep forgetting that you regularly offer to post research papers to back up your opinions.
I have noted, however, you never have done so, although often referred to them in some of you r-posts
This is not having a dig" at you, as you often claim when people disagree with you over time
I am genuinely interested in reading the research papers you cite you have mentioned I mny posts
I have read all of Studd's research papers and the peer review comments on those.
I would be really interested to know about the clinical research papers that you rely on, as I'm sure would other members of MM.
Especially if they agree or disagree with current world wide HRT research
Freckles .
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I don't have time for this today but just to say - the time delay was because I only saw your post an hour before I replied - being out all day and then again in the evening. I certainly did not spend the day considering my reply - although it was considered last night!
Secondly I repeat you know nothing about my nor anyone else's qualifications or background unless we/they choose to reveal them. As I said - these are irrelevant anyway because we all help members to the best of our ability and point others to information where appropriate - the research papers are out there.
As I also said noone ever pretends that advice given on here replaces proper medical advice given at a medical consultation - the forum rules in any case state this, and again that we are all by default non-medical professionals - even those who are "Chartered Scientist, Chartered Psychologist, Consultant Clinical Psychologist ". None of us are in any way superior to any others. As I said, some have a lot of personal experience to relate, others have advice to relate from their gynae, others have read a lot of research, others just want to give support.
Wrensong - I am so sorry at how your this has turned out. :(
Hurdity
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I am just here to say that Hurdity has always in the last four years I have been using this forum been so helpful to me, I dont think I even want to come on here at the moment its getting rather nasty if you ask me ! Anyway thanks Hurdity thats all I wanted to say.
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I dont think I even want to come on here at the moment its getting rather nasty if you ask me !
I was just thinking the same.
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:hug:
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I very much appreciate how Hurdity has helped so many ladies here. She has actually corrected GP's prescriptions in the past and averted disaster when they've been prescribed in error, and that's brilliant.
The ONLY issues I have had recently has been the questioning of ladies who choose (note the word 'CHOOSE')
to use Professor Studd's regime and the way things were worded and the issue that arose on this thread, as it can be rather upsetting for ladies to read who cannot take HRT.
I hope this clarifies my position. xxxxx
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I am not going to justify or apologise for what I said because I said it as I saw it and I am entitled to my opinion as is everyone else.
Suffice to say I have not made any personal remarks or comments to anyone, I just said it as I saw it and that is my last word in this thread.
Everyone is getting upset and I think it needs to be closed when newbies are put off the forum due to differences of opinion from strong characters.
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Oh my goodness - have come back to this this morning, short of time, to see there has been a lot going on and rather heated. I am so sorry the initial question has sparked so much upset. I will go back through it later as there is so much detail and I want to be able to address this when I can do it justice. Meanwhile, thank you all for the time & considerable effort that has gone into some very lengthy posts, which do contain some info I'm sure will be very helpful.
Without the input of very knowledgeable posters with a scientific background, I would have found this site far less helpful. Ladies who take time to post in depth with the sole intention of helping others when they also have very busy lives outside MM, will not have time to polish every sentence and inevitably sometimes run the risk of inadvertently posting something that can be misconstrued. I hope there is enough goodwill that we can all accept that this will sometimes happen & that probably, had we been in the same room as a poster when the comments were made, such misunderstanding would be much less likely to arise. Here, remote from each other, we lack the non-verbal cues that enhance & soften our words, the tone of voice, facial expression, gesture & so on, & also miss the opportunity to ask for clarification which could quickly avert unnecessary clashes.
I am always grateful for the knowledge & experience willingly & selflessly shared here & hope that anyone who has expressed a doubt in this thread about continuing to contribute to MM, will take time to reconsider, in the knowledge that we all mean only to help each other. Thank you all for your support & please, don't anyone walk away as a result of this thread.