Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Tempest on May 09, 2017, 01:42:43 PM
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Hello ladies! I've just come back from my consultation with Professor Lumsden and I will be starting 200mg Utrogestan only. Review is in 4 months. As you know, I have had a full hysterectomy and oopherectomy (no prior endo) and am post surgery 2 years. Professor Lumsden and I have discussed this at length and I'll add more later.
I'm just parking this here to see what you all think. :)
Hugs,
Tempest xxxx
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Hi
Why does he think progesterone only will work for you?
I'm just interested to understand the thought process on that one.
Sue
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Hi Tempest,
Well I wasn't expecting that. Utrogestan 200 daily is quite a high dose and only usually given 12 days per month. Prof Studd and Heather Currie normally give 100mg daily. However I'm sure there must be a good reason ??
Will you still be using the Oestrogel ?? Really hoping you feel better soon...... lots of hugs Wxx
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Surely after hysterectomy progesterone is no longer required :-\ ......
Maybe put the product into the 'search' area on here to see what else comes up or have a look-see at Hurdity's threads ........
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Personally I was expecting to add Utro. to estrogen but Professor Lumsden wants to do the Utro. on it's own due to my tachycardia and high anxiety on estrogen only.
She says if it doesn't control flushes on 200mg then she'll increase it further and 'will keep an eye' on my bone density as the Utro. won't offer bone protection.
Whether we add estrogen again at a later date I don't know at the moment. We''ll review again in 4 months time.
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Really don't no enough personally ....but me with bad VA/ bladder wows , it's the progesterone part of my HRT 100mg for 10 days , that aggravates my bladder/vagina by day 7 the other three especially bladder are 🔥.
I no it also is a lot of ladies backwards and forwards to the loo when on it .....however perhaps it's all different when had a hyster/ no oestrogen etc as I I've no idea.
Hoping it works for you . X
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I Tempest,
All you can do is try it, nothing can be as bad as the Tibolone for you. All Consultants have there own ideas and we must be guided by them. The Consultant I see thinks it's better for me to be on a combined HRT due to the agitation on oestrogel.
If it doesn't suit you then keep trying until you find something that does suit you ;)
Wxx
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Thank you, Warwick! I'm the same with high anxiety on estrogen only and Professor Lumsden was wonderful in listening to my problems. She has probably done more research than any other individual in the world on the origin and nature of menopause symptoms.
I found this study:
http://www.webmd.com/menopause/news/20100622/progesterone-alone-may-help-hot-flashes
On using micronised Progesterone alone for hot flushes. Mine are so bad now that I get a massive 'aura' before one and have actually vomited on occasion recently! :o
God knows why they are so bad now! xxxxx
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Adding this link too which is a bit scientifically lightweight, but explains the role Progesterone plays and why so many of us get so anxious during peri menopause (and it also explains why anxiety is rife for us surgical menopause/hysterectomy ladies on estrogen only).
https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/hormone-secret-progesterone-for-anxiety/
You'll see that Progesterone occupies the GABA receptors in the brain, and these are the very receptors that Valium works on (as well as alcohol and sleeping tablets).
I've long said on here that its no picnic being on estrogen only - as much as many think it must be wonderful, it doesn't feel good to take a stimulating hormone all of the time if it isn't balanced at all by Progesterone. This is the most frequent complaint I see from my fellow surgical menopause ladies - if the estrogen replacement is high enough to eliminate hot flushes, then inevitably they get increased anxiety, palpitations and sleeping problems over time. It's like being over caffeinated ALL OF THE TIME!
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Hello sweetie
Nothing ventured - nothing gained
No one knows if this will work but unless you give it a shot you'll never know
Just for the record to other members - progesterone is the devil hormone to so many women but for some, it's welcomed and needed, regardless of whether you have a uterus or not. It has other properties that certain females need. I'm one of them, I've tried it and I liked it ! But no one took me seriously when I kept asking for it.
Pinning my hopes on this giving you relief in so many areas Tempest, and if it doesn't fully help, there's options to add to the mix
Xxxxx
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Thank you so much Annie! I have to give this a try - I know EXACTLY where things will be going if I stay on estrogen only and agree with you wholeheartedly!
You were probably the first person here on MM to be brave enough to say you needed progesterone. If you read Diane Danzbrek's story, you will see so many similarities to you and I (Diane is a member of the BMS and lay spokesperson for the Royal College of Obstetrics and Gynaecology too, so completely credible. She was treated by Dr Nick Panay who prescribed her Utrogestan after TAH/BSO).
In Professor Lumsden's exact words to me today, Utrogestan is harmless. Yes, HARMLESS. And someone in her position wouldn't make that statement without knowing all the verifiable facts.
I can but try........Thank you for being a wonderful support and friend, Annie! xxxxx
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I am optimistic for you :-)
And hey, when the boot has been on the other foot you were there for me xxxx
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Tempest, give it a try, Utrogestan does have a calming effect and you will probably find that you sleep well. Will you be taking it orally or vaginally?
Out of interest, before you had your ovaries removed, when did you feel at your best i.e. before a period, after a period, mid-cycle?
Different things work for different people and you won't know until you try. Please do keep us updated.
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Hi Tempest, Wishing you all the luck in the world with this new regime. As you say, she is one of the top brains on meno in the country, so just go with her advice.
All the best, Rx
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Hi, Mary G! Thank you for your very kind and reassuring words. This is going to sound odd, but to be honest it's 12 years since I had a period now after my hysterectomy so I can't really recall! I think I was pretty ok most of the month apart from the irritability caused from cramping during my period, obviously. I did feel really good whilst I was pregnant though, which may be a clue as Progesterone levels were very high then (I discussed this with Prof. Lumsden today). xxxx
Thank you so much, Rhiner! If you would be so kind, could you remind me of your regime at the moment please? I know you've had BSO and take Utro as you still have your uterus. How are you doing overall just now? I remember you had a dip after your virus - I hope you've recovered fully now? xxxx
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Tempest we were the same as each other
I never had ups/downs during the month, I would've remembered something like that. I do recall women saying they can feel they're due on. I never did, I just knew it'd come @35 days each month. Felt good pregnant too, really good. And had pnd once out of 3 live births and I think that was because of my loss 13 months earlier
You know, I have a good feeling for you :-) xx
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Hi again Tempest,
Yes I am BSO but have uterus. I am on estrodot 75mcg and alternate day dosing of 100mg Ultro, orally. When I first started to take the ultro it did take a couple of weeks to get used to it, felt a bit odd and a little nauseous at first, but that wore off pretty quick. I did find that adding the Ultro did lift my mood a little, but after a couple of weeks of taking. I guess you could introduce it slowly to your system, say alternate day and then escalate to daily, so that your body can adjust as you get used to it, as 200mg per day may be a lot to take at the start?
I had a dip in oestrogen around Xmas, and it started when I had a bit of a virus/cold, the virus went after a few days, but it took me about 6 to 8 weeks to 'recover' what I think was depleted oestrogen levels. That really worried me, my consultant said that sickness can effect oestrogen levels and if you have ovaries they will ramp up the oestrogen level to compensate, but for BSO ladies, obviously we do not have that luxury anymore I am dreading the next time I am ill!
Rxx
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Aha! I knew we were so alike, Annie! It just goes to show too that HRT should be an invidualised thing. I'm so very sorry always for the loss of your wee precious one, you're such a brave lady, you know? xxxxx
Rhiner, you're on the same dosing as Diane Danzbrink, the lady who runs Menopause Support that I've mentioned recently who has had TAH/BSO. It seems to be pretty ideal for both of you! She also has testosterone too - have you ever considered adding it in at all? It might be worth a go. My aim would be to adjust to roughly this dosing regime if I can tolerate the Utro. over the next 4 months. Increasing estrogen first really does go disastrously for me, so I am a bit of a reverse work in progress!
I can understand why Professor Lumsden is going for 200mg as she is hoping to control my flushes to some degree as I'm getting very exhausted! I feel the same as you in that it would be best to start alternate day dosing at first. I'm continuing with 1 pump of Estrogel just for the next week before I make the switch as I would like to get to a couple of essential appointments before I start in case I'm out of the game when I first start it (and it takes my infernal GP an age to sort out prescriptions despite me handing in Professor Lumsden's letter today)! xxxxx
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Good to see more specialists are seeing the value of using progesterone only when oestrogen is too over stimulating.
I think you can also use it vaginally if any problems occur with the oral route. My endo thinks it will be converted to oestrogen in me (as my own oestrogen is too high) so prefers me to have the transdermal progesterone, however, I've not tried it and still may do, particularly if you do well on it.
I've not in the hot flush stage yet but have also heard progesterone is as effective as ERT in stopping them. No one seems to understand the mechanism.
Good luck!
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:thankyou: Girls - lives and learns I does ;-)
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You and me both CLKD
today I've learned that Replens isn't as good (prob the wrong word) as I once thought plus that progesterone can stop flushes, I knew it can help as it did me but just shows it really should be more widely available for hysterectomised (is that a word?) ladies
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How does progesterone help if 1 no longer has a womb - maybe a separate thread?
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Even most Drs think it's not needed without a womb
When I tried it it just seemed to ..., balance me, maybe mildly sedate me
The negative I found was vivid dreams but not every night but then (again supports my theory) back in womb days I had very vivid dreams
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Thanks for the update Tempest - you asked for our thoughts!
It has been established that progestogens used in pharmaceutical quantities can be used to prevent hot flushes. There is information on this on this website:
HIGH DOSE PROGESTOGENS (MPA) Medroxyprogesterone Acetate and Megestrol Acetate (Megace) are synthetic forms of progesterone which sometimes reduce hot flushes and sweats. They also offer a degree of bone protection. They have been prescribed to women who cannot take estrogen after breast cancer treatment but concern currently exists about the possible effect of progestogen on the breast and so are now used less often. The side effects of these drugs can sometimes outweigh the benefits. In particular there is known to be an increased risk of clotting with higher doses of progestogens.
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/prescribed.php
In this case they are being used as a drug rather than as part of HRT - because they are given in such high doses. I presume this is what Prof Lumsden is attempting for you?
Also Elisabeth Vliet (of screaming ovaries fame) does acknowledge that there is a small minority of women for whom progesterone is preferable (in terms of well being) in peri-menopause although for the majority of women oestrogen replacement provides the essential ingredient - both for feeling well and for optimising future health.
Surgical menopause is clearly a special case and sounds like more work is needed on researching hormone replacement in such women, and also Tempest your situation is different with your other issues too - is it you that has allergies and potential anaphyllaxis (sp!) which must affect how you react to hormones generally, so your treatment is of necessity individualised but wouldn't necessarily be advised for other women?
Stellajane - if oestrogen is over-stimulating then to me it suggests levels are too high. It often seems odd to me that some gynaes talk about women achieving oestrogen levels of 6-800 pmol/l all the time when they would never be this high in our menstrual cycle. To me this is all the more reason why one should aim for a level at which your symptoms are eliminated but not so that you are feeling like you do at ovulation all the time! I have never experienced this on oestrogen (ie too much) so I can't imagine what it's like! However if this level is needed to eliminate flushes then I can see that has to be given....
I hope the progesterone works for you without too many side effects - as I write I am on Day 4 of current utrogestan cycle - at that dose (200 mg vaginally - so I don't have the same metabolites as from oral use and liver metabolism) - and I feel totally whacked, tired and foggy - can't wake-up in the morning! The sedative effects of it are enormous!
Are you taking it orally? Hopefully you will get used to it after a week or so? Then I presume if it does work you will re-introduce oestrogen as is recommended?
Interested to hear how you get on and wishing you all the best - you have tried so many things!
Hurdity x
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Tempest I so hope this is the one that works for you. xxx
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Good luck with the Utrogestan Tempest. I really hope it works well for you.
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Hi, Hurdity! Thank you for your kind, considered thoughts.
The study you linked to was centred around using synthetic Progestogens which have higher incidence and range of side effects and are less effectual than the bio-identical Utrogestan (most probably due to intolerance of side effects at doses needed to achieve symptom relief). This is where Professor Lumsden is coming from with her thinking.
My prior allergies and anaphylaxis doesn't play a part at all in the decision to use Progesterone only in my case.
The decision has been purely based
on the fact that if I use enough estrogen only to relieve my vasomotor symptoms, I experience tachycardia, abnormal electrical rhythm in my heart upon exertion and vastly increased anxiety, as well as severe bloating. The anxiety and palpitations seem to be a common feature I am seeing in other women who are using estrogen only over at our surgical menopause thread once their levels are high enough to alleviate vasomotor symptoms (and has also been well written about by Diane Danzbrink. Apparently Dr. Nick Panay may be doing a podcast in the near future about this phenomenon with Diane in women who experience surgical menopause on estrogen only HRT).
We are learning more and more now about hormone replacement and it's role in surgical (and natural) menopause as HRT has been proven to be safe and more women are confident using it.
This is going to be somewhat of an experiment in my case from my point of view, but I noted with interest that a former member of MM was treated by her specialist with Utrogestan only and achieved favourable results (I'm not sure if she was actually in Canada).
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,24460.15.html
I'm sad that she's no longer active here as it would have been good to see if she is still using this regime, and how she is now.
I'll certainly be posting about my experiences when I start the Utrogestan regime next week.
Thank you again! xxxx
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Hello, Edelweiss! How are you today? xxxxx
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Just a wee update. Hubby and I have been discussing this and given my black mood which developed on Tibolone and the possible culprit being the Progesteronergic effect as I continued on it, I have decided NOT to proceed until I have spoken with my psychiatrist next Monday. I don't think I can afford to take the risk without discussing it thoroughly with him first. xxxxx
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Think that this is a wise move as progesterone does have a tendency towards a sedating effect and /or a bit of a depressor in some people. Better to have discussed all possible angles.
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Hi Tempest,
I understand exactly how you feel. Just a thought, would it be better to start on 100mg for 2/4 weeks then move up??? (when your ready that is) I could just about tolerate 100mg and that was only for 7 days. It was when I stopped PMT as well as agitation hit me.
Take Care Hun Xxx
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Thank you, Dazned and Warwick.
To be honest, I'm worried sick today about all this. I was hoping for an increase in my gel dosage and adding in 100mg Utrogestan every other day. I have no idea where to turn for help or advice and feel like just coming off everything again now despite the truly debilitating physical symptoms.
I can't afford for this to go wrong and end up in a psychiatric hospital over this, and any sign of depressed mood and that's what going to happen - my psychiatrist just won't take the risk. I have never categorically said this, but I regret this surgery with all of my heart and don't think I can do this any more. :'( xxxxx
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Oh Tempest you poor thing!
I understand completely about regretting the surgery as I feel completely the same way. So many complications and further surgeries, if only we knew then what we know now!
Don't feel too down, your psychiatrist may agree it's worth a try and monitor you when you start? There's lots of women using this in America after hysterectomies without oestrogen, it may work for you. I would take advice from your next appointment and see how you feel.
Hugs to you xxx
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Thank you, Otes. You're so very kind!
It's so hard to live with the consequences of this surgery, isn't it? Everything in your body just deteriorates too fast, not like natural ageing in the natural menopause. Only we can truly understand what a terrible shock this is to body and mind. My heart goes out to you, too!
I'll try to hang on to seek the advice of my psychiatrist too.
Much love to you. xxxxx
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Tempest, I know it's frowned upon on this forum but have you thought to try a progesterone cream? In my run with hrt and anxiety and depression, I thought the progesterone gave me trouble, but then discovered the problem was perhaps the estrogen. I went off everything and felt so much better, but still have surges of uncomfortable jittery feelings. I have recently purchased a progesterone cream to try as needed. I like that I can adjust the dose. The standard dose delivers what should be the equivalent of taking a Utro, but I have been using only about a third to half of that only on my surging days and it seems to be working. As I'm off the estrogen I'm not concerned about it being functional for my uterus, and when I feel like it's building up to make me feel down and tired, I stop the cream. It may be little enough that it's only a placebo for me, but after everything that passed, I'm terrified of getting so depressed again so I like that I feel in control of the amount.
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Tempest please stop.
I can tell from your messages that you are tying yourself in knots and I'm feeling your pain as I've done this myself so many times. I honestly feel like your mind needs a rest, so you can stop, draw breath and make a plan to get yourself well again. Have you thought of taking a small amount of diazepam to get you over this?
I'm going to try and be objective for you;
1) 100 mg of utrogestan probably wont affect your mood and may even sedate you
2) Yes you can do this! I know for sure that you have more spirit and determination to get yourself well
Anxiety is a horrible illness, I know from personal experience and stopping thinking is easier said than done, but please try and give yourself a break from it all, just temporarily.
I'm wishing you all the best - please take care as I do worry xxxx
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Are you still using the 1 pump? How's that going?
Yes my mind & body have gone haywire, it feels like 1 step forward then 10 back!
What did Prof Lumsden think about the the struggles you've previously had? She's the top of her field so you're under good hands with her.
Xx
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Marchone, THANK YOU. I just showed your post to Hubby (hope you don't mind) and he said this is EXACTLY what I must do. Just. Stop. I'm going to take a deep breath and just wait until I see my psychiatrist (who is a godsend) and discuss it all with him on Monday, as well as making an appointment with the one decent GP at my surgery next Wednesday too.
This HRT thing floors me. I'm already getting at least a 50% reduction in my physical symptoms (flushes, night sweats, muscle aches) from the one pump of Estrogel BUT it's already affecting my mood too (weepy, all over the place). Unbelievable! I am THAT sensitive. My anxiety wasn't so bad off everything. I really can't win so there has to be a trade off somewhere and I'll discuss all options with my two trusted doctors next week. xxxxx
LIzab, thank you so much for your suggestion. We're a bit stumped for progesterone creams in the UK apart from the Wellsprings stuff (I have no idea if that stuff is any good). I've read back some of your posts and despite me being in surgical menopause and you in natural, we share so many symptoms in common it's unreal! xxxxx
Otes, yup - she knows! I think this is why she thought Utro. might be worth a go, but after reading all the negative experiences on here, i've got myself in a right tizz about it all. The experience I had with Tibolone is also very fresh in my memory and I have no idea what went wrong there, but the black mood thing has happened to Joesmum and another lady who we haven't heard from in ages (gosh, I so hope she's ok)!
I spoke to Prof. Lumsden about the Tibolone and she says it's either a success or a disaster - there is no middle ground with that one! xxxxx
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Oh Tempest, I feel for you. Think Marchone's comments are spot on, just hang fire till Monday and try to chill a little if you can. I know its easier said than done. At least the flushes etc are a bit better with one pump of estrogel. this whole thing must be an absolute nightmare.
We are all here for you. Rxxx
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Thank you so very much for your kindness, Rhiner! Yes - Marchone speaks wise words, you're all so kind and patient with me here (and have come to know when I'm tying myself up in knots, too)!
It's so very much appreciated. xxxxx
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Hi sweetie
You'll never really know what went wrong with the Tibolone, am I right in thinking we metabolise it all differently somewhat and it's distributed differently and in different ratios ? I.e. You may have used more of the oestrogen effects as opposed to the others? I don't know, like the other caring ladies, I'm throwing out my thoughts .
Can't remember if it was 2015, think it was, I saw an NHS gynae and I'd bought some prog cream to go with my patch, I asked him if I could try it and he said yes. I honestly can't remember if it helped, I'm thinking it might've done because I tried utro after that. I know I've been scatty in the past buying off the net but sometimes desperate times calls for desperate measures and all that jazz
If you can hold off to see psych, then maybe you should. You need peace of mind and confidence in whatever route/type you try.
Xxx
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You have to remember they'll be so many positive outcomes that just aren't posted or aren't on the forum! If everything is going well most ladies are just getting on with life so don't let the negative outcomes put you off.
I didn't get on with Tibolone, previously had a Mirena (pre hysterectomy)which was a disaster but have been fine with Utro.
Enjoy your weekend and I'm sure your psychiatrist will guide you in the right direction.
Xx
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Thank you so much, Annie and Otes! I really appreciate your kind words and support. :)
I often wondered if the creams were worth a go, Annie! One of the ladies over at the Ovacome forum (ovarian cancer survivors) has done very well on it, so it MUST work as I should think there's little chance that its merely a placebo effect in her case. xxxxx
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I used Progest . Smelt like those wheat heat bags you microwave (yuk!) xx
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Bleeeuch! I've been e-mailing Diane back and forth today. Hopefully something may be in the pipeline..... ;) xxxxx
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Fingers x'd xxx
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Thank you, Dazned and Warwick.
To be honest, I'm worried sick today about all this. I was hoping for an increase in my gel dosage and adding in 100mg Utrogestan every other day. I have no idea where to turn for help or advice and feel like just coming off everything again now despite the truly debilitating physical symptoms.
I can't afford for this to go wrong and end up in a psychiatric hospital over this, and any sign of depressed mood and that's what going to happen - my psychiatrist just won't take the risk. I have never categorically said this, but I regret this surgery with all of my heart and don't think I can do this any more. :'( xxxxx
Hi again Tempest - I know you have had so many problems - so I don't know why you can't just start on the regime you wanted to try? I know it's not normally used but as you say something needs working out for those who have had surgical menopause. Personally I don't think adding progesterone is ultimately the answer ( I mean long term medically) but for you (and others) in your situation, until enough research has been carried out into working out how to stabilise women in surgical menopause, I can't see why you could not try it (rather than the high dose prog you have been prescribed)? After all it's not going to do you any harm?
Did the Prof veto this for a particular reason? I only say because you sound as though the gel was beginning to work for you and was not causing the violent allergic reaction you experienced before, so if the prog at a low dose would act as a sedative - why not try it? (Never though I'd be saying that!!!)
I'm not sure what this Diane is going to suggest - I did look her up briefly - from what I gather she is not a medical professional and not a qualified doctor but hopefully she is giving you some helpful support and advice.
Hurdity x
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Hi Tempest
How are you doing today?
Of course I don't mind you showing Hubby my messages- I just hope that I can help you.
Just one thought, you know you mentioned that you have become weepy since starting the Oestrogen- do you know that it's because of the oestrogen or could it be that the gel isn't working on your mood yet? And the tears are a reaction to low Oestrogen?
Take care x
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Hi, Hurdity! No, there is no good reason at all, and that's why I feel so bereft. My GP will only do as Professor Lumsden says, and today I'm at the bottom of my container of Oestrodose and they won't give me any more (I thought I had more than I did - it felt 'heavy' but its hard to judge with the packaging).
So it looks as though tonight I will have to stop the gel again. I'm not allowed to start the Utro. according to my GP until I've spoken to my psychiatrist next Monday, not that I want to start it anyway on its own.
I really feel like giving up now. I'm being held to ransom here with all this, and I can't keep putting my body through this turmoil. My psychiatrist has SAID that my issues are hormonal, but my GP keeps banging on about possible disturbed mood on HRT etc etc.
When I spoke to Diane (she's been counselling me) she said it's because I've never been on a high enough dose to help my mood or for long enough, and I agree with her! At present she is gathering information for me so that I can go privately.
I don't think anyone has ever been held to ransom like I have over replacing hormones which are essential for my health, and I'm beginning to wonder if this is in fact a breach of my human rights.
Oh, and I phoned the Samaritans today. I had to phone SOMEONE. Hubby is at work over the weekend and I have no idea how I'm going to get through. I'm sorry to be so dramatic, but I'm truly desperate. The sad thing is that the flushes at least have started to go as of yesterday, but I have no more gel anyway.
Thank you for your kindness.
Love,
Tempest xxxxx
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Tempest- I'm so frustrated for you!
Surely your GP must know that stopping the Oestrogel won't be good for you especially when you had been getting results with the flushes.
I've phoned the Samaritans before - and it does help to talk.
If I used gel, I'd post you some but unfortunately I'm a patch girl.
Xxx
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Tempest, I'm so sorry you have been left feeling like this and I would be very angry in your position and yes, I really get the human rights angle.
Why not ring Professor Studd tomorrow and have a telephone consultation? It is always worth getting a second opinion and let's face it, you have nothing to lose by simply speaking to him and listening to what he has to say. You don't even have to take his advice but I feel you need to speak to someone right now who has experience with hormonal depression. Also, he would be able to organise an emergency prescription if you need it.
The person you mentioned (Diane) might have a point about your not having reached a high enough level of oestrogen. I know that some women with hormonal depression often need very high and constant doses of oestrogen. Could this be the case with you?
I wish I could help you but I can't think of anything else to say other than you will get there in the end.
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Tempest let me know if you got my pm xxxxx
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Sorry you're feeling so worried. Please understand that nothing has actually happened since you were initially keen to try the progesterone and now. You're simply doing the worst case scenario thinking, something we do subconsciously thinking if we can imagine coping with the worst thing (as in the same reaction as the Tibilone) then everything will be fine. However, what happens is that your brain then registers the scenario as if it's actually happening and you're feeling the resulting anxiety.
Nothing has changed in terms of the odds of this working, only your belief. You could start the Utrogestan (I agree the smaller dose would make more sense if they can change it?) and you can always add back the gel if it sedates you too much. Although sedation may be just what you need right now.
I suspect the gel is still over stimulating you (because you need either more or less) and that is making you panic and assume the worst.
Please when you feel like this say to yourself "Everything will be ok, things will work out in the end and I can stand it" rather than "It's all going to go wrong and I can't stand it!". The former is true and the latter is a lie due to possibly a belief such as 'This MUST work otherwise there are no other options, therefore I can't stand it, it's the end of the world!!!'. This leads to anxiety and anger and you feel you've lost control.
Instead, the true statement would be 'I REALLY WANT this to work, but if it doesn't we'll tweak it and eventually something will work for me, I can stand it, it's not the end of the world'. This leads to more rational emotions such as concern and annoyance which make you feel back in control as they are healthy negative emotions to spur you on to achieve your goal!
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Hi Annie and Edelweiss - I've received both of your messages and I'll message back as soon as I have my I pad. Thank you so much! xxxxx
Thank you so much, Marchone, Mary G and Dangermouse. Very wise words, Dangermouse - thank you so much for framing things in a different and better light. xxxxx
I am currently in communication with Dr. Louise Newson to see if we can work together privately. I also have the option of Cathy Abernethy (soon to be Chair of the BMS). Both of them know my case history now and it's just a matter of organising things, so I'm hoping for a positive outcome some way!
Hubby is being wonderful and fully supports my decision to use the private sector.
I forgot to say, I also received a recall over my DEXA which I was assured was ok, and I have to have this repeated next Tuesday. When I was rambling to the lady at the Samaritans today (who was lovely and kind) she said that surely this would force the issue of HRT even more if unfortunately there is a problem? This is also why I'm very worried - it's like its all happening at once and the timing has been unreal as the whole issue with the Progesterone only is that it DOESN'T offer any bone protection!
Just to reiterate what I wrote earlier in case anyone is confused, what I requested at my Consultation was 75mcg (titrating if nescessary) Evorel patches which I would be using on the thigh as opposed to the tummy as I couldn't absorb there, with the option of switching to Elleste Solo if I still had absorbtion issues. With this, I asked for 100mg Utrogestan bi-daily to address the issue of palpitations which I get on estrogen only (this has been researched and verified by Dr. Nick Panay). I'm completely sure the 'anxiety' I'm getting is actually due to unremitting palps and also episodes of tachycardia on estrogen alone (I don't get this off HRT).
My cardiologist is satisfied that these features are not due to any underlying heath condition, but are due to the stimulating effects of exogenous estrogen and I have had scans at the Department of Nuclear Cardiology to rule out anything untoward.
I also requested Testosterone in addition at a later date (at a later date, IF it was nescessary to wait - although Dr.Panay and Prof. Studd are happy to prescribe these simultaneously as it takes a good number of weeks for the Testosterone to build up to any therapeutic level). I was refused the Testosterone as 'not nescessary'.
Phew! Sorry for rambling, but I just thought I would clear that up so that you wonderful ladies who are trying to offer me help and comfort have the full picture!
So - no gel tonight. I managed to just get a mean half a squirt out of the container so it wasn't worth it. I hope I can cope, but then I managed over 2 months without before I started it and its only been 9 days (which is why I was surprised that I had some noticeable hot flush relief from just 1 pump)!
Thank you all so much for your incredible kindness.
Hugs,
Tempest xxxxx
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I think Louise Newson is lovely! xxx
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Whoops! I had a typo. there with her name, didn't I? ;)
Do you know of her, Edelweiss? That's marvellous! Yes, I need someone with a compassionate nature, and Diane recommended her to me. It really has been an absolute godsend being in contact with Diane as she has so many personal contacts due to her roles at the BMS and Royal College of Obstetrics and Gynaecology.
Thank you so much - without you, none of this would have been possible! xxxx
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Yes, and I thought Louise was absolutely lovely, warm and compassionate.
Very committed to women's health.
She takes HRT too. She looks amazing glowing and healthy! xxx
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Oh Tempest, I am squeezing your hand really tightly (by proxy).
As you know, I have suffered dreadfully with hormonal anxiety and anxiety. It really is vile. For what it's worth, my opinion is also that you simply have never had high enough oestrogen levels, for long enough, to feel real improvement.
Being on 3 pumps, or 3 sachets of Sandrena didn't even touch the sides with me. When I saw Prof Studd he told me that 1-2 pumps were for the physical symptoms of perimenopause, and that 3-4 pumps (or occasionally even higher) was required to alleviate anxiety and depression.
I do know that he 'likes' his anxious/depressed patients to achieve oestrogen levels of 600-800 pmol. But, he also said he has some ladies with levels over 1000 pmol, which is fine too. After I had been on 4 pumps for 6 weeks my oestrogen level was only 603 pmol, which Prof Studd said 'wasn't that high at all.'
You will get through this. We are all here for you, willing you on. This too, shall pass xxx