Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: nicolcarrie70 on May 09, 2017, 06:08:17 AM
-
Hi Ladies,
I need your help!!!
I'm 46 and been menopausal for a few years (irregular - light periods, night sweats, insomnia etc) and most recently a dry vagina and angry bladder.
Since December (5 months) I've been experiencing UTI symptoms and having had all the usual tests gynaecologist has said that although I am fairly young this is due to low estrogen.
I started on Femoston 1/10 with Vagifem 14-3-2, this having givien no improvement was increased to 2/10 and another loading Of Vagifem plus continued daily use.
With all the above I am still suffering😞
Can anyone offer any suggestions as my Gynaecologist can only offer a hysterectomy as an option. I have discussed playing around with different HRT regimes but he just seems clueless! My urologist is also of little help as he can only suggest AD's even though the only thing that is depressing me is my bladder😫😫😫😫😫
-
Try ovestin as well as your regime
It's an oestrogen cream for the outside area and has really helped moisten things up as well as other relief
Or, double up your vagifem dose to 2 pessaries two or three times a week
Another alternative as extra is replens
-
Annie0710, thank you for your reply.
Will Ovestin help with the inside?
I've spent months reading posts on here looking for answers and advice but can't see that anyone has had the same problem of VA after two loading and daily use of Vagifem.
I have ordered replens🙏
-
Replens is actually not recommended at all anymore ( although still prescribed) ....all to do with osmosity, causes thrush amongst other things.
If you've been reading here for a while , then you will VA is for many of us hard to get on top of , and lotsnof trial and error.
Why will a hysterectomy help 🤔 your womb is your scaffolding and hang onto it if at all possible , as you are prone to further prolapses without it , one being Vaginal vault prolapse.
ovestin / estriol can be used in and out .....there's the estring also.
YES products / sylk / all natural no nasties like replens.
-
Maryjane, I actually don't know the answer to your question! In a normal state of mind I would have asked but I don't think I'm functioning at all!! Im so sleep deprived that I'm like a zombie😫
My gynaecologist is treating me as though I'm exaggerating! I'm thinking that maybe I need a second opinion.
-
You need to no exactly why a hysterectomy is suggested , a 100 years ago the did hysterectomys to try and cure hysteria in women , never worked ....just a thought 🤔
Do your homework, I no it's a hideous time .....me too. 🙈
-
Your gynae needs a slap, why even suggest a hysterectomy for VA when the poor patient is already so stressed....hope you get sorted, but a hyster is def not the solution. >:(
-
Do not undergo hysterectomy unless absolutely necessary! Your GP should refer you to a meno specialist if the Gynea doesn't know enough about HRT etc.. If you have hysterectomy you are out of his hair! (? cynical - moi ? ). You will need more HRT if you have such radical surgery!! so what would he recommend prior to surgerical intervention!?! [pity I can't spell ..... ]
Have a browse round, make notes. Think about which symptom you would like to ease most of all.
Vagifem used to be delivered in a higher dose so maybe double up on alternate nights, or ask for Ovestin1mg instead. Used in the same way for 2 weeks then every 3/5th night though I adapt treatment as required to keep symptoms at bay.
Replens is a moisturiser only, it won't re-plump with oestrogen as the products above are designed to do. There are ladies here that struggle, hence the advice. I also use KY Jelly inside and out to keep things moist and supple.
As oestrogen levels drop so the body dries up = VA, itchy nostrils/ears/skin and also, muscles may become lax = aches and pains. It's The Change tha' knows >:( ::)
Do avoid surgery if the main problem right now is vaginal atrophy! because it can cause more problems than it solves particularly regarding HRT requirements!
-
Sorry about recommending replens, I actually haven't used it for years and used Sylk internally with vagifem but didn't work Day to say but ok before sex. Ovestin I use externally but can be inserted too
I used replens years ago after my hysterectomy (don't have a hyster unless absolutely necessary ) and it worked ok but these ladies know better so listen to them xx
-
I think it can be useful for general moistness unless it causes 'thrust' etc., it really can be Trial and Error! It has to be what suits each person which even then, sometimes needs looking for another method of easing symptoms. The point of being here is to offer up advice so that others can take what they feel suits them and give it a whirl .......
-
Annie sorry the replens , I hadn't read any other replies sonjumoed in 🙈.
Mr Panay an one other , have written a paper of all the vaginal lotions / potions and replens is given a big no , but horses for courses. 😊
-
Maybe the recipe has been altered which may give it less appeal.
-
Annie sorry the replens , I hadn't read any other replies sonjumoed in 🙈.
Mr Panay an one other , have written a paper of all the vaginal lotions / potions and replens is given a big no , but horses for courses. 😊
Absolutely, I'm relatively new to VA, so would always listen to what you ladies advise x
-
I can absolutely recommend YES VM moisturiser. It's a relatively new product which is unique as it holds moisture in the tissues. I spoke to the developing chemist and use it every day. Marvellous stuff! It''ll also be available on prescription soon and is 97% organic. xxxxx
-
I think it can be useful for general moistness unless it causes 'thrust' etc.,
:lol:
Oo-er!
:jiggy:
:welcomemm: nicolcarrie70
I agree re the hysterectomy - defo a no-no just for VA - what is your gynae thinking of? You need to find a different one! Good luck! I would definitely use some ofthe products mentioned - especially estriol cream for outer areas as well as Vagifem. the generic estriol is weaker (0.01%) than Ovestin so could be used more liberally as a moisturiser as well as some plumping up.
Hurdity x
-
Blimey - a moisturiser that causes thrust?! :o Where can I get some? ;D
-
Thank you for all the advice!
Yesterday morning I saw my urologist, he said 100% not hormone related. He suggested botox down below and failing that a colostomy bag.
Saw my gynaecologist in the afternoon and he said 100% sure it was hormone related! He sent me an email last night which said as follows:-
'I think the options left are a 1) ventrosuspension + removal of both overies and tubes. Or 2) a laparoscopic hysterectomy + removal of both ovaries and tubes.
Taking your advice I then contacted my GP and asked to be referred to a menopause clinic and she said she hadn't heard of one!!!
Can anyone suggest anything else to try re bladder before I go ahead with surgery??
-
I think I'm getting a bit confused - have you asked for ovestin ?
I'd try everything under the sun cream/pessary-wise before I opt for surgery
-
I may be dim here ....but what are the reasons for any of these surgeries 🤔 urologist saying a 100% not hormones at your age ? Think he needs to learn about URO- genital atrophy.....URO being the urethra / bladder tract/ area .
-
Could you find a menopause clinic here:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/clinicfinder.php
I agree with the others that surgery wouldn't solve the problem. I would try Estriol Cream or Ovestin either in conjunction with Vagifem (with the creams being used on the outer areas) or even used internally and externally instead of Vagifem. Or you could try a vaginal moisturiser on the outer areas, or internally as well on the days you don't use Vagifem. I use YES water-based and find it really helps. Then of course there are all the other options already mentioned.
Maybe worth a try first?
-
Annie, I did ask my gynaecologist if I could try a different HRT regime. I asked about local estrogen cream and the estring, I also asked if changing my Femoston 2/10 to a patch or gel equivalent but he said it wouldn't.
Maryjane, I totally get you......I'm feeling 'dim' too about all this! It's only that I'm at such a desperate stage that I am willing to try anything - if they suggested cutting off a limb a would probabaly agree in the hope that I would get some relief.
The reason for the surgeries is purely to stop the constant feeling of needing wee and the burning urethra.
-
I'd suggest the fillers in the vagifem might be irritating you and the Estring would be a good substitute (does it get worse when you do a reload, then improve a bit again?)
All the rest of it sounds utterly nuts. Why would you need a colostomy bag if they're not touching your bowel? Why is removing the source of ANY oestrogen going to help your urethra???
I have a feeling that you are entitled to a second opinion, so why not ask for one (and when your GP shudders, give him/her the name of the nearest meno clinic from the list and sweetly ask to try that instead).
Good luck. It's a pain in the xxx
-
PLEASE do not go ahead with any of these LUDICROUS suggestions, as you have given us the facts , unless something major toubhave forgotten to tell us .....I have come across some odd suggestions by some of these so called experts but these are by far the most / odd bizarre I have ever heard.
Just confirming your in the UK?
-
Poor you - no wonder so many of us are at our wits end with the medical profession - it doesn't sound like you're getting good advice from any of them. It's the lack of joined-up thinking and not taking a 'holistic' view of symptoms that makes me the most cross. GPs often don't know what they're talking about and specialists don't think outside the box. Even given that, the suggestions you've had for surgery seem extreme and utterly mad.....
It all sounds pretty hormone-related to me - why on earth would a hysterectomy help?! And as for the colostomy bag, words fail me!
I'd definitely ask to be referred to a menopause clinic (or urogynae?).
-
A colostomy bag for vaginal atrophy??? No, now I have heard it all.... :o
-
One of my favourite 'cures' for bladder problems is to drink plenty of plain water during the day. (Don't overdo it and force yourself - just keep a glass by you and drink it as and when - I find it vanishes pretty quickly.)
It is something I picked up from the nurse in the Enuresis clinic my daughter attended when young. It seems to stretch the bladder and calms and makes it less 'reactive' and helps you go through the night too (which is why we were there ;) )
Best to choose a day when you are not out much.
I use Femoston, vagifem, Yes etc but also multigyn actigel (available in that big Chemist next to the condoms and the meno moisturisers) which is supposed to balance your pH. It is a bit sting-y but seems to help with this and other irritation that looks a bit like thrush.
I find that it comes and goes in spite of all of the above, but overall and together they help.
-
Predictive text then - I changed it twice :neutral: ...... Wrensong ........ ::)
Did your GP refer you to this particular Urologist ? and did you tell the gynaecologist ? As for undergoing surgical procedures, you WILL need HRT if your womb is removed so you won't be any further forwards. Many medics still believe that a lady can be 'too young' for peri-menopause, quite frankly those GPs should be retired :bang: :bang: :bang:
You may be able to send a short e-mail to Dr Curry on here for a fee and do read the Link from Jenna.
-
Sorry CLKD, that was flippant I know, in what is a very concerning thread. No offence meant.
-
Oh no Wrensong, it's the kind of comment I would make but written down it looks static .......
As for the advice Nicol ........ you should make sure that your GP knows exactly what has been suggested - are you in the U.K. ??? ........ who suggested that the reason for the surgery is to get rid of your symptoms, I'm a bit lost here.
Treatment for vaginal atrophy is as per several of the threads on here. If you have visited qualified practitioners in the UK and received those suggestions then something is very wrong somewhere ......... however, some sugeons seem to have the attitude that once the womb is ripped out that's the end of that particular patient and they can move onto the next, there doesn't seem to be any consideration of post op advice or follow-up treatments.
Have you read the links yet? Maybe make a list of the symptom that you would like eased more than any of the others, i.e. do you have any other particularly related menopause symptoms other than dryness? I'll bounce 'My Bladder etc.' thread.
-
I think it can be useful for general moistness unless it causes 'thrust' etc.,
:lol:
Oo-er!
:jiggy:
:welcomemm: nicolcarrie70
I agree re the hysterectomy - defo a no-no just for VA - what is your gynae thinking of? You need to find a different one! Good luck! I would definitely use some ofthe products mentioned - especially estriol cream for outer areas as well as Vagifem. the generic estriol is weaker (0.01%) than Ovestin so could be used more liberally as a moisturiser as well as some plumping up.
Hurdity x
HI
I use Vagifem 5 times a week at the moment, was improving but lately have stinging on the outside.
Might sound stupid but is it the dryness that causes stinging on the outside? Does anyone know?
After months of using Vagifem I am more moister inside...I am struggling as to whether the Vagifem could be causing the stinging outside after its use for many months or is the stinging something else?? I have tried a couple of days of Ovestin on the outside and still stinging...should I continue with that or try Estriol?
-
I expect that the area stings due to dryness. I use KY Jelly or Savlon on the outer lips as necessary.
-
Update......taking advice from this thread, I had an appointed with another gynaecologist. I wanted to see someone local to me and had read some positive reviews about this man so booked a private consultation.
I went armed with lots of suggestions from this forum, I explained that I did not want a hysterectomy purely in a attempt to rectify my bladder issues (as had been recommended by previous GYN). I asked if I could try Estrogel, Utrogestan, Ovestin for inside and Estriol cream for the outside - he looked at me as though I had 2 heads😱😱 Then I suggested that we could add in Testim and he looked at me as though I had 3 heads😱😱😱
He said that it was all too much estrogen and was only happy to prescribe 100mg of Utrogestan with Estriol cream for outside and Estring for inside. NO ESTROGEL!!
I think that I've just wasted £250 on that consultantation😫
-
Hi nicolcarrie70 - can you just clarify what exactly you are using now? Is it still Femoston 2/10 and Vagifem?
Incidentally, Estriol Cream and Ovestin are both estriol creams, so you would be prescribed one or the other. Ovestin is ten times stronger than Estriol Cream, so you use more Estriol Cream to achieve the same result.
-
Hi Jenna,
I am currently on Femoston 2/10 and Vagifem.
Somewhere on 'the burning club' thread I read that Ovestin for inside and Estriol (as it's weaker) for the outside is a good option if Vagifem is causing irritation.
I'm just so confused though!!!! Why would he prescribe Utrogestan without an Estrogen counterpart? Does it make sense to you?
-
It's not a waste! You went for advice and got it, probably not what you were expecting nor what you wanted. But you have an opinion!
-
I am afraid a lot of General gynaes are not at all knowledgeable about HRT , mad but anyway.
I am on oestrogel 1 pump a night this is low dose , I use 100mg utrogestin for 10 days a month ( may change to mirena coil ) I also have the estring in place , and if I want to I can also use estriol or ovestin on the outer bits , I don't as they irritate more.
You could use vagifem 5 plus days a week if neeeded , plus ovestin or estriol for the outer bits.
Or you could use ovestin internally and externally/ or estriol internally and externally.
I no of ladies who have to use 2 vagifem 5/7 days a week.
No shoe fits all , and what suits one doesn't another , It's trial and error and that goes with specialists I am afraid .
-
CLKD, not quite sure what you mean? I would much prefer 'not' taking any HRT at all (if I could function without). I have unbearable vaginal and bladder pain so much so that at times m I have felt in complete despair!! I am not an expert but having done some research and reading forums such at this one - I know that it's is much more likely to be estrogen that I am in need of and not so much progesterone. I don't think to suggest I use Estriol cream vaginally and take 100mg Utrogestan 7 days per month is going to help!!
Maryjane, thank you very much for your reply. I'm going to try to get referred to a meno clinic as I'm finding that my GP and gynaecologist don't know enough about the HRT options available! My Hume hadn't heard of Oestrogel or Ovestin!!!
-
CLKD, not quite sure what you mean? I would much prefer 'not' taking any HRT at all (if I could function without). I have unbearable vaginal and bladder pain so much so that at times m I have felt in complete despair!! I am not an expert but having done some research and reading forums such at this one - I know that it's is much more likely to be estrogen that I am in need of and not so much progesterone. I don't think to suggest I use Estriol cream vaginally and take 100mg Utrogestan 7 days per month is going to help!!
Maryjane, thank you very much for your reply. I'm going to try to get referred to a meno clinic as I'm finding that my GP and gynaecologist don't know enough about the HRT options available! My Hume hadn't heard of Oestrogel or Ovestin!!!
HI Nicolcarrie
My GPs didn't know what to do so I saw a menopause specialist at a menopause clinic in Leeds and she helped me a lot. My GPs still don't like advising me on any of it. Where do you live. I think you need a specialist.
-
I am afraid a lot of General gynaes are not at all knowledgeable about HRT , mad but anyway.
I am on oestrogel 1 pump a night this is low dose , I use 100mg utrogestin for 10 days a month ( may change to mirena coil ) I also have the estring in place , and if I want to I can also use estriol or ovestin on the outer bits , I don't as they irritate more.
You could use vagifem 5 plus days a week if neeeded , plus ovestin or estriol for the outer bits.
Or you could use ovestin internally and externally/ or estriol internally and externally.
I no of ladies who have to use 2 vagifem 5/7 days a week.
No shoe fits all , and what suits one doesn't another , It's trial and error and that goes with specialists I am afraid .
Hi there Maryjane, just want to make sure I understand this correctly. Some ladies have to use two vagifems together 5 or 7 nights a week ? (I know the vagifem dose used to be stronger - 25 - and is now only 10 ).
I am asking as I have improved on Vagifem but still have very bad symptoms - I am using one every night and have been for over three months now. Maybe I should consider trying two and seeing what happens....
-
As a loading dose 2 Xs 10 a day for two weeks , then one every 5/7 days a week thereafter.
Which takes it back to the original loading dose when at 25.
-
I would up that to 2 every 3rd night and see what happens, it really can be Trial and Error!
-
Didn't make it clear , one everynight 5 to 7 days a week .
Obviously I'm not a medic , but everyone is seen including GP is happy with 5/7 a week . The estring is equivalent to as good as 5 vagifem a week anyway .
-
I use vagifem and sometimes need to use extra for a boost. I also find that it helps to use vagifem internally and estriol cream extenally, sort of belt and braces as I can feel dry outside but be fine inside.
-
I just want to let you know that I finally persuaded my GP to prescribe some estrogel - I had printed off numerous info from internet to back up my plea!!
I used two pumps on my inner thigh at 10am this morning and within an hour my bladder and virgina felt 70% better and by 5pm 90% better.
I'm dumbfounded!!! Can it really be that I needed a more direct route for my estrogen!?!?!
-
Yay! Hope this will do the trick!
I presume you still have the progesterone? Did the gynae originally prescribed this for 7 days and has s/he said anything about progesterone dosage when you are taking oestrogel?
Depending where you are in menopause - if you are still peri-menopausal then you will still be ovulating from time to time and therefore producing your own progesterone. However 7 days of 100 mg utrogestan is the absolute minimum dosage for very progesterone intolerant women and should only be done under medical supervision and if you can't cope with any more than this. The standard licensed dose is 200 mg x 12 days per month orally - which is usually the starting point and then can be reduced if necessary, provided the womb lining is kept under control.
Anyway good luck with it all and hope see long term improvements :). Do keep us updated!
Hurdity x
-
Thank you Maryjane for clarifying about the vagifem dose.
Good luck Nicolcarrie and bravo to you for persevering with all the information collection and insistence with the doctors....
Hysterectomy for VA. NUTS !!!! Its really a travesty that doctors are so clueless. And the GP that doesn't know of a menopause clinic. How can our problems be so ignored !!
Kkay