Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: twoodie on April 21, 2017, 10:54:35 AM
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Hi newbie here,
just a quick summary. I was a happy 49 year old, full of beans, fit and sociable, who enjoyed baking and eating ! Then I got what I thought was a stomach bug at the beginning of January this year. Undortunately the nausea never subsided and after some horrible investigations ( endoscopy, colonoscopy etc) the gastroenterologist felt that it was my menopause causing nausea. Since then as well as having either nausea or no appetite, I have developed the most awful anxiety. Its like a monster sitting in my body with no thoughts attached to it. Mornings are the worst and my life has literally ground to a halt. I just try and get through every day but there is no joy in anything.
I researched bio identicals (My GP was truly useless, she said at first it was a virus, and then when my hormones were tested she said that she had never heard of nausea and the menopause) and found doctor in the North East who offered bio identical treatment. He tested my bloods again. my results were
FSH 89
Oestrodial less than 44
progesterone .8
testosterone .7
these numbers are meaningless to me other than I know the oestrogen is very low.
He prescribed a gel combining oestrogen, progesterone and testosterone 2 pumps per day.
I have only been on them 10 days and although my sleep has improved, my anxiety and nausea are terrible.
I would love some advice, support or reassurance that life does get better as I feel that life is unbearable at the moment and I so want to get on with my lovely life again.
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hi thanks for quick reply. I haven't worked out how to use this site yet.
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Hi twoodie
I am new to MM myself. The women on this site are very knowledgeable and reassuring. I am sure they will be along soon to reassure and help. Firstly like yourself I was a foodie and had a real joy for life. Out of nowhere I developed a dread and crippling anxiety along with aches and pains etc I tried bio identical but was proving very expensive from USA. Many visits to GP as well as tests and I resigned myself to being in peri menopause. I had IBS flare ups ME flare ups and felt like it was all going wrong and I couldn't control. I finally accepted good advice from private GP and got private gynae assessment- she has prescribed Mirena coil with estrogen. I'm still off work but things are improving. Check my posts as I detailed what I am doing at the moment to help me manage symptoms. I think the bio identicals took about 2/3 months to work for me when I was using them. Stay strong - you will get through and get your old self back. The key is having support guidance and some patience to get the right combo for you. This forum will be invaluable to you. Hugs from DaisyB
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thanks for encouragement x
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Hi twoodie- there's a bit of confusion as to what bio-identicals actually are. They are available on the NHS but from the sound of it, you've got a preparation specially made up for you. Can you confirm please.We can then give you some further advice.
Can't speak for testesterone but nausea and anxiety can be caused by progesterone. Did you have PMT or post natal depression? :welcomemm:
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hi, i had my script made up at private pharmacy. each pump contains
1mg estradiol
progesteroe 50mg
testosterone 0.5 mg
My nausea predates HRT .
I have no children, and I had v bad periods so was on Merina for 6 years . I had the second coil fitted last August without any blood tests. I had it taken out this January as we were wondering whether this was making me sick. Taking it out made a tiny difference, but not much.
TBH I have been a fit healthy happy person all my life until the nausea started in January. I feel Im in a nightmare and Im frightened. My mum is having to stay with me as my husband works away mid week.
I could sob - this anxiety is just sitting in my chest and I dont feel like anything will ever change.
thank you so much for replying to my post.
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Hello twoodie and welcome to the forum.
I am not one of the expert ladies but I do recognise all your symptoms as hormonal. When I was 49 I remember wondering what all the fuss was about regarding the menopause then everything happened at once and it was like being hit by a train so you do have my sympathy!
Wishing you well and keep posting.
K.
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how are you now?
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Thanks twoodie. I'm certainly not as well clued up as some of the ladies on the site but know a little bit. The erratic peri menopausal hormones can play havoc with the digestive system. The hormones drive the whole body and mind and when they go out of kilter, there are so many ( on the surface) unrelated symptoms that can appear but digestive issues and mood/ anxiety disorders are common. So, don't be afraid, you're normal!
Maybe trying calming herbal teas might help as would small meals, more often, to help blood sugar levels. You could try a little dry toast first thing in the morning. There are also anti nausea drugs on prescription but I'd try some simple home remedies first.
Your hormones will fluctuate- I don't know enough to comment on your private prescription and I believe that there's a bit of a concern about private pharmacies dispensing prescriptions that are unregulated. I'm also not sure about the efficacy of progesterone gel. Certainly the transdermal route is efficient but maybe your getting too much via this route or the wrong type ( e.g. What type of progesterone is it? - some can cause more unpleasant side effects than others)
I've paid privately to see a consultant gyny- he's prescribed bio-identical oestrogel ( dosage can be tweaked) vaginal utrogestan ( bio- identical ) and topical oestrogen. He might add in some testesterone at a later date. Point is, it's all available on the NHS . You'll find a whole mix of opinions on the site so ultimately it's about what works for you. Professor john studd is eminent in his field - his gold standard regime consists of oestrogel, utrogestan and testim, with tweaking as necessary. Some women don't get on with any form of progesterone so he recommends that shorter does of progesterone are taken under supervision backed up with regular scans to check endometrial thickness. I understand that other doctors are also happy to go down this route. The anxiety is a common symptom regardless of HRT but conversely the HRT can also make it worse.
I hope you start to feel better soon- maybe a short course of CBT would help you manage the anxiety and remember that it will eventually pass although it's a challenge :foryou:
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Menopause definitely causes 🤢 I feel like I am pregnant again , I have also had things down and up , and it's all pointing to menopause.
Does it get better ( I'll let you no , when /of out the other end 🙄).
Your GP can prescribe what the private specialist has on the NHS.
Your oestrogen is very low , also you tostesterone a private gynae can give you that , as T is to do with mood / depression.
Don't no about P.
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can't believe Ive had so much support already.thanks.
I am a bit worried about the doc Im using . He is a fully fledged medic but bio identicals are only one part ofhis practice. I was concerned about taking progesterone every day. Ive got a tel. consult with him in 3 weeks - but I had to ask for the follow up. My GP practice have been useless and I dont want to go them again ( hubbie thinks we should change GP but Im worried that we wont find any better). Maybe I should try someone else. Anyway the plan is to give hormone replacement a chance to see if it helps.
Im trying to keep busy and it does help to keep me distracted altho I still walk around with this lo level anxious /nausea feeling. I think if it wasnt for the anxiety I would feel much less nauseous & that my appetite would have a chance to kick in (although severe nausea without anxiety was my first symptom).
Best wishes to everyone. I know it has been said before but I really do feel like Im going mad- although I know Im not now.
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Had your periods stopped completely before you started this regime. If not then you really shouldn't be taking progesterone every day. You should be on a Sequi regime , ie one that mimics a natural cycle rather than one that stops your periods completely. Well that's what my GP told me. I did start off on a Sequi and after a few years moved onto the conti.
If you look around the site you can find details of all the types of HRT available. Or you can pay for an email consultation I think from Dr Currie.
Ive also picked up from reading here that your oestrogen test results should be a lot higher before you should take testosterone.
I really would have a good read and then print out what's available and go and discuss it with a GP, or maybe a clued up practise nurse.
I would also ask my GP for a referral for Cognitative Behavioral Therapy to help you cope with your anxiety.
If you can get your HRT properly sorted then you should start to feel much better but what you are using now sounds different from the normal that is available, but I'm no expert.
Also quite a few woman find they have to take an AD for a short while to help with things. That might be worth considering too.
Hope you can find a way through this.
The ladies here are so nice and as a new joiner I have found them friendly and supportive. It's nice not to feel so isolated as everyone else I know seems to have floated through menopause.
Mrs Brown
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unfortunately the nausea has been for almost 4 months now. It is better than it was but when Im not nauseous I have no appetite and dont fancy anything. I cant believe our bodies can do this to us. I think the hardest thing is to try and do things when you feel awful. Normally you get sick, take to your bed, get better then start doing things.
Im trying to get back into things and am dog walking, and going to yoga. I just cant face socialising with my pals though. What a mess. I cant wait to feel better.
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Morning - me again.
Just an update - I went privately to have my stool analysed and results just back show I have no good bacteria at all and a pathogenic level of a bad bacteria. I think that, together with no oestrogen could explain why I feel so ill emotionally and physically. Hopefully this means onwards and upwards.
Hope everyone has a lovely day.
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Hi twoodie - have you been given any advice on how to correct this imbalance? I take Holland and Barrett Mega Potency Acidophilus capsules and I also eat Onken Natural Biopot yogurt to keep a healthy balance of intestinal bacteria.
I hope this info might be of use to you! :)
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Hi Twoodie- try Symprove. google it. I used it prior to a trip to Burma and Vietnam and was the only one who didn't get a tummy upset ( and I've got IBS ) x
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Hi Twoodie
I also have IBS - I started making my own bone broth - you can google - I use one whole organic chicken in a slow cooker for 24 hours - gives me enough for one weeks supply filled with good stuff for the tummy. I also take bio kult first thing in morning. I have tried FODMAPS diet and various things over the years - but I have settled with a 'foods to avoid' approach - works best for me. Top of my list is fresh warm white bread, wheaten bread and prunes! I have also tried making my own kefir - word of caution though building the good bacteria up again should be a gentle and gradual process - hopefully you will begin to feel better soon. DaisyB 🙂
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Hello Twoodie.
Changing hormones have also impacted my digestion so now I watch my diet and make my own Sauerkraut which helps.
I am thinking of having a stool test and I see that King's College London offer a private service called Map My Gut, is this the one you used?
I hope you find a regime that works for you and let us know how you get on.
K.
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Twoodle, there is a definite link between falling oestrogen levels and indigestion/nausea. With the wonderful benefit of hindsight, I can now pinpoint exactly when my oestrogen levels starting dropping and the very first symptoms were increased sweating (although no problematic at that stage) and changes to the digestion with occasional nausea although that suddenly disappeared.
Regarding HRT, from my experience and from reading a lot of the posts on here, most HRT regimes fall over on the progesterone part. I am severely intolerant to progesterone used in HRT regimes but you don't have to be progesterone intolerant to have problems with it, it can just have a drag effect and lower your mood or undermine all the good work the oestrogen is doing.
Oestrogen is easy to mimic and that is why it is so successful but progesterone is very difficult and even though Utrogestan is bio identical and supposedly much like our own progesterone, it is nothing like the stuff I used to produce and the effects are very different. In my case, it changes the way my brain receptors work and causes low mood and silent migraines. Therefore, I have to seriously limit its use and only take a very small dose every 5-6 weeks - I am under strict supervision and have regular scans and this dose is perfect for me although I still don't like it. I also use Oestrogel and testosterone and and apart from the dreaded Utrogestan, I feel completely normal and don't have any menopause symptoms.
Perhaps you need to look at adding in the progesterone part of your regime cyclically? From what you have said, it sounds like you could benefit from a good long run of oestrogen and testosterone only to see if it lifts your mood and makes you feel better overall. That way, you will know if it is the progesterone causing the problems. Alternatively you could ask if your oestrogen dose could be increased and your progesterone dose decreased? It could make quite a difference.
The regime you are on sounds very good and I'm sure you can perfect it with a bit of tweaking.
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Peri-menopause is not easy to treat with HRT so its all about trial and error. I personally had to use a private doctor and am using the compounded hormones too but that is because I couldn't get the more specific doses on the NHS but if you're lacking oestrogen then the NHS should be the place to start and much cheaper. Maybe you could ask your GP reception for an appointment with a GP who is more knowledgable with HRT and if no-one is, ask for a referral to a menopause clinic.
Re. the nausea, I also had it really badly and lost so much weight I had to just sip milk throughout the day to avoid dehydration as could not eat and had to take a few months off work unpaid as most days I couldn't leave my bed. I was also told it was a virus and endless other gastro things like ulcers, but had to wait 6 months for the gastro referral to come though to prove it wasn't, and no-one mentioned it could be hormones. I'd accepted it was a mystery illness, as the docs started to turn me down for emergency appointments "as I'd already been that week" and I remember making myself feel better with the thought that at worst I could go to Dignitas?!! Anyway, once I realised I was always in A&E during my period I figured out the hormone connection and a GP put me on the BCP pill which after 7 days of making the nausea worse (but knowing it was hitting a spot which gave me confidence), it all just STOPPED. I have never felt such relief in all my life to get 'off of that boat'.
I've since found the nausea was so bad as my endocrinologist believes they are migraines being triggered by the hormone imbalance and I do not know if going straight on the natural HRT then would have worked, as things were so severe, and I have had moments of it (around ovulation) but for me the pill being so much stronger would be what I would reach for if I wanted to ensure zero nausea. Hence, it might be useful for you (and the high synthetic hormones calm your own cycle down more than a Mirena could as that is only progesterone) just to get over the hell you are in now if you can't get the right HRT you need if have to wait to see someone else. Anti-histimine type anti-emetics, like Cyclizine, may also be of instant relief but they do make you drowsy, the other anti-emetics made me worse but all are worth a try when you're that ill.
Good luck!
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hi everyone,
Im going to have to give my bio identicals time to kick in I think.
The tablets for my stomach are high potency oregano from a nutritionalist who advised the stool sample analysis (the company is called Genova and they provide a full report -£180).
Thank you so much for your comments.
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Hi Im feeling worse than ever with dreadful feelings of doom and terrible anxiety. Its day 11 of hrt. Can you feel worse before you start to feel better? Im really desperate to get some symptom relief. Should. I go to my GP for some other medication (Ive never taken medication in my life)?
Would appreciate any advice.
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Twoodie ......I also have never taken any medication in my life , peri has got me like a sledge hammer at 45 now 50 , I started HRT 18 months ago TBH my anxiety doesn't like it , but I have dreadful vaginal/ bladder issues bought on by menopause sink have to take HRT, otherwise I would top myself from the pain.
My nausea has been hideous also , i was actually being sick lost a lot of weight , loss of taste burning mouth etc etc , had a camera down on Thursday all pointing to hormones , ibjve also had the Genova test done , same results as you and I bet a vast majority of the population are also, I take Syntol AMD probiotics and optibac for women probiotics.
I also get silent migraines / vertigo which cause more 🤢 , anxiety I can be like a cat on hot coals , so what do I do , walk walk and even more walk. Force myself somdsys I average 4/6 miles a day and always feel better for it.
Good luck . I thought menopause was a bit hot / bit batty/ heavy periods done over get on with life .....ummmm not for me .
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thank you so much for your responses so early in the morning. It does really help to know others feel the same. Im going to go back with my husband o stay where he works for the week as I really need to be with him and Im worried that I upset my mum too much when she comes to stay in his absence. I just wish I could even concentrate to read and relax but I just feel too awful. We haveca lovely blind black lab and i do get her out for walks every day. It does help. Im just worried that I cant go on living feeling like this x
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I can relate to the lack of appetite which my GP just put down to depression but I also get a really sore tongue and occasional nasty taste in my mouth. Food wise I'm just eating what I can when I can but even food shopping is a chore. I can't believe the change in me in the last few months - I feel like half a me
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Bioidentical is a very confusing term. It sounds like you are using "compounded" bioidentical hormones. These are not an ideal form of treatment for menopause as they are not regulated and there is no control over their manufacture. This link will explain what compounded bioidentical hormones are and what the negatives are.
https://www.menopause.org.au/hp/information-sheets/212-bioidentical-hormones-for-menopausal-symptoms
You would be much better off going to a regular GP and being prescribed proper pharmaceutical grade HRT which is test, regulated and approved.
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Hello twoodie.
Just wanted to send hugs as I know how horrible it's possible to feel due to hormones.
I've had two children but only experienced morning sickness when menopausal plus my anxiety and flushes are a constant companion! I like being alone when feeling awful and a friend of mine goes and sits in her shed lol, but I know others are like you and feel safer in company. My trusty meno book describes feelings of unease and I think that can accompany anxiety and dread.
I see that you are taking oregano to improve your gut health and I read that this can have antibiotic properties so I assume you are trying to kill the bad bacteria?
Wishing you well and keep posting.
K.
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thank you so much. I really worry how long this can go on. If it were only anxiety (its not in my head its in my body like a monster) or nausea, but I really cant see a light at the end of the tunnel trying to deal with both all day every day. If I hadnt found this site I would be much worse I know that much.
The oregano is for the bad bacteria & if this doesnt work I could try anti biotics. Not sure how much of sickness is hormonal and how much is gut, probably a combination. I just miss eating normally so much it makes me want to sob.
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Im still wondering how long I should give the bio identicals to work. I had the coil taken out as we wondered in the early days if this is what was making me sick.
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When I suffered with constant nausea (just like morning sickness but constant ) I found a travel sickness pill helped tremendously. As soon as my period started I'd be fine then next month one week before period it would start up again!😠 I also in the middle of a bout got weird cravings of what to eat when out of the blue I felt hungry! Like pregnancy cravings. I put this all down to progesterone as it's very high in early pregnancy and high before periods. Hope you feel better soon.
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I had a terrible panic experience yesterday and got an emergency appt with GP who prescribed SSRI.
I also called Dr Studd and arranged a telephone appt for a second opinion of my bio identical hrt.
Today I woke up more nauseous than ever and threw up. Im still in bed.
When does this ever end?
Hope everyone is having a better time xx
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Hi Twoodie- hang on in there. Hopefully prof studd will help you get things sorted. Let us know how you get on x
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Hello again Twoodie.
No great words of wisdom I'm afraid but I wanted to send hugs.
Hopefully you'll feel better soon.
Take care and keep posting.
K.
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Hi Twoodle,
Firstly big hugs, it's a horrible confusing time isn't it!
I am postmenopausal, on HRT since Dec 2015, my worst symptoms were anxiety, and bladder, also IBS.
You said you had the Mirena coil, were you ok on that? I have the Mirena and use two pumps bio identical estrogel daily.
It took time to control the anxiety, and 11 days is no time at all. I feel much calmer now than I have in years, my IBS is gone, and bladder is still overactive at times, but better more days than not.
Just wonderd if you could have kept your Mirena if it was working for you, as it is less systemic from my understanding, being contained in the uterus,
and you could have just added the oestrogen by gel application or a patch.
Regarding you bacteria levels, I make my own kefir and drink a small glass daily, it has been very beneficial in how I feel generally.
Have you tried valerian tablets or even rescue remedy to help you anxiety? I also found headspace app to be excellent at calming me when I was at my worst.
Hope you soon start to feel better :foryou: :foryou:
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Hi twoodie
I don't think I've welcomed you as I've been away so :welcomemm: from me!
Anyway - the first thing is - where in menopause are you? How often are your periods and how have they been over the past year? This will indicate where you are in menopause.
I would say ditch the bio-identicals asap (as in - the compounded all in one preparation you've been given)!! Firstly - transdermal progesterone cream or whatever it is, is not sufficient to protect the womb and in any case many women don't like taking it continuously - although it is difficult to say how much is absorbed in that compound. Also if it is oestrogen cream rather than gel then again it is probably insufficient to bring your oestrogen levels up. This is not an approved way of providing HRT and if you have a consultation with Prof Studd he is likely to agree and suggest you use Oestrogen gel and micronised progesterone, together with testosterone gel ( I think someone mentioned it further down the thread?).
Do read the link Dana provided earlier in the thread about bio-identicals - and I think Dr Currie has written a blog recently too. I've found a back article here: https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/pdf/article%20Bio%20identicals%202017.pdf
You absolutely should not be given anti-depredssants - this is totally the wrong treatment for menopausal panic, anxiety etc! HRT properly prescribed, is the first line of treatment. Everything you need in the first instance is available on NHS. You need oestrogen in the form of estradiol - as a patch or gel (if you are sensitive to tablets) and progesterone - as Utrogestan - although this is better taken vaginally if you have a sensitive gut. Testosterone can come later once your oestrogen levels are higher. Low oestrogen can cause anxiety and low mood. You do not need additional progesterone given continuously - but preferably as a cycle which limits the progesterone but will give you a monthly bleed.
Alternatively - if you have only just entered peri-menopause ( irregular periods with varying lengths of time between them) and are under 50, then you might like to consider the CCP. There is one called QLAIRA which is a bit like HRT (the oestrogen is estradiol) and only has 2 tablet free days. This would give you additional oestrogen and regulate your cycle and therefore prevent the huge hormonal surges. It's nothing like the old style CCP for younger women.
Hope this helps :)
Hurdity x
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this is such a supportive site!
I think i am in monopause with high fsh and very low oestrogen ( less than 44)and low progesterone .
i got prescribed ssri by gp - i just feel so desparate and frightened that I'll never be myself again. my nausea is terrible today and i was sick this morning. it is just so depressing. I never used to sit down for a minute, now i just sit all day. sorry to be so negative but i think i should be honest.
emailed studd prior to tel. appt giving him my current regime. his secretary said she thought he might want to advise me to change what Im on!
thank you and please keep in touch xx
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Hi Twoodie- good for you. Hurdity has given you a very considered response. Welcome back Hurdity- you've been missed x
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sorry its me again- have been sick again -it has always just been nausea. Im really really frightened. Worried Im going to fade away.
when will this horror end.
has anyone else felt so ill?
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Hi twoodie
The nausea it awful it is like morning sickness, mine comes & goes & sometimes I have been sick, it is so awful, I keep waiting for the day for the horror to subside too, I am 3 months on my current regime & upped my dosage to 4 pumps 7 days ago so hoping this might help with the awful anxiety, so yes I do feel as ill with a combination of symptoms, it is very frightening, I push myself to go out in a daze most of the time & wondering how I will be but I am just having to face this awful meno, each day I wake & wonder if I will feel better today, just take a day at at time that is all we can do.
Take care x
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thanks Dee- hope you have a good one x
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hi again Dee, I've just read your posts and we sound very alike in our experience of menopause altho you have been keeping going a lot longer than me. My husband is really worried and I hate putting him through this but I cant help it. My worry is that it is literally wearing me down and I feel I just cant live my life like this. I dont even feel safe at home - just anxious.
Lets hope we get through this x
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I question if the AD's are making you both feel nauseous.
If you read the side effects
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Antidepressant-drugs/Pages/Side-effects.aspx
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Hi Twoodie
I think a lot of us feel like our experiences are the same, I started feeling weird about 2.5 years ago & then the nausea came first & I just went crazy, went for counselling through work & she mentioned the peri menopause but didnt say what effect it might have as I was crying a lot of the time, it all went on from then being put on Sertraline which caused all these issues, a long story but I am in a better place than I was a year ago but now working on the HRT doing its magic, I had to go private in January as the GP is not helpful. My husband has got angrier over this as he feels he cannot fix how I feel & what I am going through, I hate putting my hubby through this too, I know exactly how you feel about it wearing you down & not being able to live like this, If I get bad anxiety I try deep breathing using an app called Calm, it is awful isnt it not feeling safe anywhere, it is that out of control feeling that just gets you, I can feel my chest getting heavy now & a light head, it will pass! Just take a day at a time, that is how I have learned to cope with it now, we are all here for one another x
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Ljp I was getting the nausea before going on the ssri but it got worse! Not too bad now though, get it a lot less
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hi lip and dee,
i did wonder about the ad's. Ive only taken 2. Its Sertraline Ive been prescribed which sounds like it has been a nightmare for a few people. I think my anxiety is hormones deffo, but I do feel that I m getting depressed with feeling so ill. why oh why do none of my pals have any of this- although scratch that, i wouldnt wishnthis nightmare on anyone. I just want me back - i have a wonderful life to return to but just not sure if I 'll get there xxxx
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Twoodie- you've got to believe you will get there but I know what you mean.
I'm in a better place in my life than I've ever been, with so much to look forward to but I'm a miserable so and so. The menopause has pulled the rug from right under my feet but I will find a way to get better! You too x
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Twoodie did you feel nausea before taking the AD? Within an hour of taking Sertraline it didnt agree with me so if you seem to be ok after 2 days you might be ok, I continued to take for 3.5 weeks, it made me worse, I felt the same was googling why I was feeling so ill & coming up with all these things it made me more depressed, so I gave up googling & found this website about 6 months after I was on the AD. It was a harsh lesson but I will get there, patients is the key which is hard when yes you cannot see anyone around you suffering like you are. We all feel that life it just around the corner & we will all get there.
What symptoms are you feeling right now with the anxiety, are you sleeping ok?
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Hi Dee- unfortunately the nausea has been for 4 months and Ive had a lot of invasive investigations to rule out nasties. I just worry that my relationship with food is going to be ruined and I used to love my food. It is interestig that I have only taken two ADs and have vomited twice. not sure what to do.
My anxiety started a couple of weeks ago out of the blue ..its like a deep buzzing, throbbing that can stay for hours. it makes me feel like i want to get out of my own skin. if i wake up during the night i become either anxious or nauseous. I never feel well in the mornings, and can hardly believe that i used to jump up and do a dozen tasks before breakfast. i used to be able to sleep 10 hours no problem. now it is more like 6. i dread waking up.
Michel we have no choice ! We may even be better for it. I know for sure I will be much less materialistic and much more empathic with people, and try and live every minute. this site is just so amazing. i really feel for all those women over the years who must have suffered so much without knowing what on earth was the matter with them.
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Twoodie have you thought to try Vutano/stress relief (roseola) or Kalms (valerian) or Bach rescue remedy?
I used all the above before I went in HRT, my anxiety, panic and crazy overthinking was just awful, but I knew I didn't want anti depressants. These really did help, combined with relaxation/meditation using headspace app.
It's a horrible dark place, I'm so pleased to be feeling a lot better with far fewer anxiety/paranoid episodes.
Hope you soon start to feel better xx
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Hi twoodie
You haven't said where you are in menopause with regards to periods or have I missed something? Your cycle before starting HRT (ie how often your periods are and how long), as well as symptoms, will say more than blood tests as they are just a snapshot at one moment - even though your oestrogen levels are low. If you are still having a strong cycle the fluctuations could be affecting you. I never had nausea but then I didn't get morning sickness in pregnancy either, but I know the surges can cause this and especially during the peri-menopausal transition when there are more extreme highs and lows.
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity,
I had the Merena coil for 5 years and then had it changed for a second one last August. When I first got nauseous I had it taken iout to see if that was what was causing nausea - it clesrly wasnt and I think it is since then that my anxiety has started. I havent had a bleed since coil taken out Feb 17 altho I have lost so much weight (5'9 and 8.5 stone now - its awful) which may be affecting my cycle.
I would love to have your thoughts.
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Well, had a long conversation with hubby last night and decided that despite the severe nausea and sickness the SSRI's are giving me,I should try and get through them.So lying in bed again, reading 100's of posts on MM and sipping protein shakes. I really wonder if things will ever change. I honestly feel tht life isnt worth living(but I wont do anything). I just feel so ill.
I cant believe this is me writing this- 4 months ago I was having such a lovely life.
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I know Twoodie- I really feel for you. It's awful to feel so unwell. It may take time but all we can do is know that it won't last forever x
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Hi Twoodie, I really feel for you as I have been through pretty much exactly the same. 7 months ago I started feeling sick, dizzy, weak, tingling in arms and legs and lost my appetite, I thought it was caused by a tooth abscess but now I know different! I was so anxious and stressed out at how ill I felt I ended up in hospital for 4 days, I have to date lost 3 stone in weight within the last 7 months, have had endoscopy, CT scans, Ultrasound, every blood test you can think off and am still seeing a Gastroenterologist who referred me to Endo, Neuro and Immunologist because he couldn't explain many of my symptoms. My symptoms got worse and then came many more of them! Belching, vomiting, burning stomach, extreme fatigue, feeling drunk, faint, trembling inside, off balance bumping into things, visual disturbances, brain fog, insomnia, muscle weakness, rosacea, dry hair and skin, adrenaline jolts waking me up throughout the night, breathlessness, muscle tension, head zaps and then came the drenching night sweats!! (This for me was the final realisation it could be hormonal )
I thought I was going insane, several GP's gave me antidepressants which made me feel 10 times worse as my body just could not tolerate even the tiniest amount! So they all went in the bin! TBH It has been the most horrific thing I have ever experienced in my life and I could not in million years have imagined it would be menopause as I had a Hysterectomy 21 years ago when I was 31 including removal of ovaries and had been using Oestrogel HRT ever since which had served me very well. I did not know that at some point I would still have to go through another 2nd menopause 21 years later! So I completely understand how desperate you feel...
I still have bad days mostly in the mornings but am getting better and you will too, just take each day as it comes and try to focus on the fact that it is your hormones and not a mental illness and that you will come through this. I have recently been to see a Kinesiologist who has seen this happen so many times when menopause kicks off. She has put me on supplements to support my adrenals as she says during this period it's the adrenals that are in crisis. She has also put me on a paleo diet and I have to say I have been feeling so much better these last couple of weeks, I'm still trying to find the right dose of Oestrogel as the dose I have always been on is now (my GP thinks) too much for me, one due to age and two due to the extreme weight loss. If you have lost a lot of weight the body just sucks up the HRT too quickly leaving you feeling dreadful, when you have more fat on the body the Oestrogen gets more absorbed into the fat cells rather than surging around in your blood stream.
It sounds like your HRT is not right for you but I'm no expert. Finding the right dose and type is such an individual thing but you will get there. One of the things that has helped me the most is a magnesium supplement that my Kinesiologist gave me called SYNERGY BODY PRIME it has enabled me to sleep really well and calmed down the internal trembling. It's quite expensive but worth every penny!
Alesia x
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Alesia & Daisy thank you so much. It really is a comfort altho I do feel we are very unlucky to have such extremes of symptoms.
Im trying to get through the AD side effects at the mo- just laying in bed feeling sick and spaced out. My husbandis fantastic but I think he is a little frightened by my presentation. Onwards and upwards.
Have a lovely day x
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sorry to be so needy but I just feel so so ill mentally and physically . When will the AD's kick in? when will the HRT kick in? Im just so frightened and cant believe Im going to get out of this awful place. any words of comfort appreciated xx
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Dear Twoodie, I just wanted to say am thinking of you and understand what you are going through. We are indeed very unlucky to experience such extreme symptoms. But take heart as this will not last forever. I really hope you feel better soon xxx
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Thanks Edelweiss. I had a look at your posts and gosh we are alike. I really cant switch my adrenaline off and Ive just said to hubby that Id love to just sit and have a nice meal with him instead of forcing food down to stay alive. I too was a happy fully functioning adult til 4 months ago. This is freaking me out! Im trying to just keep reminding myself that its my hormones but its so hard and scarey. I hope we both end up in a better place soon (I wear the same clothes every day as I am determined not to buy smaller clothes. I want to be back in my lovely clothes which are all too big at the mo).xx
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I know it's completely bizarre isn't it? I can't believe it either.
I am very sorry to hear you feel so nauseous. I was physically sick when I started ADs. I feel nauseous too, today. Usually it's just no appetite though.
When is your phone appointment with John Studd? It might be worth getting your GP to take blood test again before you have the call with Prof Studd, so you can see if your estrogen levels have changed. You would definitely be getting symptoms with blood levels of oestrogen as low as 44.
But don't worry if you can't get it done before. Prof Studd prescribes estrogel, progesterone and testim to pretty much everyone, so it doesn't matter if you don't get a repeat blood test - his prescription will very likely be the same.
Are you due at work tomorrow? If so, how are you coping? xxx
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yep, i thought I'd get my bloods done again in advance. I dont feel that I have any oestrogen at all. No I dont work thank goodness. I would be on sick if I did. how about you? I cant even face speaking on the phone to people- Ive just texted that Im in a bad way and cant face it. Lots of lovely responses but friends and family just dont get it. I wouldnt have before this to be fair.
xx
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I understand completely. Oh my goodness I hope you get some relief soon xxx
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Somebody have put something in the water 4 months ago as that's when everything ramped up for me too. My worst symptoms are lack of appetite anxiety low mood and crying and insomnia - like my adrenaline switches on at around 2am and that's it. Plus the usual chin hair, spots, dry red bits, aching etc. I have had some stressors that certain my haven't helped but they are resolving yet I'm still feeling awful and most of the time like ik.not on this planet!! Just wanted to say I understand how awful it is xxx
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Oh jorainbow I am sorry to hear that. Just awful. Yes, what was going on 4 months ago? xxx
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Jo its just awful isnt it. we are going to pull through. no matter what. hope your day just gets better and better xxx
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Hang in there Twoodie you will be ok, how long have you been taking the AD's and what are they? I was given Diazapam, Fluoxetine twice, Mirtazipine and Amitriptyline because GP's thought I was suffering from anxiety and depression, I could not tolerate any of them for more than 5 days they made me so ill and my symptoms much worse! I think it's generally 2-4 weeks for AD's to kick in but sometimes the side effects are the same as your symptoms or worse in my case.
I don't know about the HRT as I have been on Oestrogel for 21 years and still these menopause symptoms hit me like a steam train, it's so confusing ???
There have been days where I have felt so bad I just didn't want to be here any more but they are getting less since I've been on the supplements for adrenal stress and the magnesium that helps me to sleep. One thing I have worked out is that the Oestrogel gives me the jitters now like I've had 10 cans of red bull, DR thinks this is absorption too fast and so I use it in the morning instead of at night (which I had always done) as it keeps me awake all night otherwise, I can cope with feeling anxious and wired during the day but not at night when I'm so exhausted already.
It's so frustrating that all of us are suffering so much and the medical professionals don't seem to have a clue how to help us!
Love and hugs to all of you .... We are strong and we will get through this :-*
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Thanks Alesia- Its just all so terrifying. Ive ony been on AD a week, HRT 3 weeks . I just want a glimmer of feeling better. Did you get your appetite back? x
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Hi Twoodie
Yes I did get my appetite back but only after I stopped taking all the medication I was given, the AD's in particular made me not want to eat at all, I was vomiting and retching all day every day until my Gastroenterologist told me to stop taking them and I stopped taking the AD Diazepam and Ranitidine for acid reflux (which as it turns out I did not have either)
I cannot recommend enough to find yourself a good kinesiologist they can test to see if your medication is right for you. I don't know where in the country you are but if you're down south I can recommend mine to you she's brilliant she has been through exactly the same herself and has helped me so much in just a short space of time.
Alesia x
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Jorainbow sounds just like what happens to me! ... Adrenal stress is the problem
Alesia x
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I think so with the adrenals! I was no where near as bad as I am now until I had the ACTH Stimulation Test a week ago (apart from the thin skin etc).
This proves that a lot of this is adrenals! The ACTH test is a STRESS test of the adrenals. Basically, you're injected with synthetic hormone which causes your adrenals to release steroid hormones....as well as adrenaline. Since then I've been SICK. I had to get it done, but wish I hadn't! It's upset things even more. :(
And as to what was happening 4 months ago? CHRISTMAS. Worse time of the year for increased stress, plus dark days/night's, rotten weather etc. :o
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Twoodie and all of the ladies on this thread, I am so sorry that you are feeling so bad. I can totally empathise with all on this thread. The nausea is the pits and the anxiety. Feeling wired and simply that feeling of fear sums it up. When your GP says she has never heard of the nausea, as mine did, it makes you feel very alone but thank goodness we have the MM site and we know that it is not uncommon. I wish more of these GP's would come here and read what women are saying to each other.
Hugs from Meg
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Im still wondering how long I should give the bio identicals to work. I had the coil taken out as we wondered in the early days if this is what was making me sick.
Hi
I'm sorry you feel like this. Menopause is dreadful. I don't recognise myself anymore.
You need to give your body time to acclimatise to the new hormones. There is a lot of negativity towards compounded bioidential hormones on this site. I would say ignore them. You presumably did your reading first as we all did (those of us who use them). I want to use the lowest dose of hormones that I can to feel well so that I can continue taking them forever. I am happy with them. The pharmacies are regulated and the hormone ingredients are no different to those used in NHS issue bioidentical products. The only reason people can say they are not regulated is because the doses are individual and therefore can't all be tested specifically. The ingredients are tested. Other countries who are far better at this than us use compounding pharmacies all the time for all sorts of things. It's what a pharmacist was, once upon a time. Now in the UK all they do is dish out pre-packed tablets to a prescription. So don't worry about that aspect.
Because these are a lower dose of hormone, it will take time for your body to get used to it and sort itself out a bit. Please give it time. I would say keep going for at least 6-8 weeks and then if you still feel terrible, contact the prescribing doctor and talk to him about it. In the meantime, go to your GP and ask for anti-sickness medicine and perhaps a low dose anti-depressant or anti-anxiety medicine to help you through whilst you build up and find your sweet spot.
I understand about the fear and dread. It will get better as you get more balanced.
Meanwhile, for gut health, you need to consume fermented foods. They are so much better than probiotics. Probiotics feed the good bacteria in your gut, but you sound as if you don't have any. So take them by all means, but add in fermented foods like kefir (Ocado sell a nice one and there is a good goats milk one produced in Wales and sold by mail order) and fermented vegetables like kimchi and sauerkraut are good too.
Keep going. Starting hormones has made me feel worse before I felt better.
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thanks for the glimmer of hope- its really appreciated. x
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There is a lot of negativity towards compounded bioidential hormones on this site. I would say ignore them. You presumably did your reading first as we all did (those of us who use them). I want to use the lowest dose of hormones that I can to feel well so that I can continue taking them forever. I am happy with them. The pharmacies are regulated and the hormone ingredients are no different to those used in NHS issue bioidentical products. The only reason people can say they are not regulated is because the doses are individual and therefore can't all be tested specifically. The ingredients are tested. Other countries who are far better at this than us use compounding pharmacies all the time for all sorts of things.
It's not just "this site" that is "negative" about compounded bioidentical hormones. International Menopause Society, Australasian Menopause Society, North American Menopause Society, FDA, NHS, TGA, Canadian Gynecology Society, even Dr Currie and Prof Studd all warn against the use of these compounded hormones. If you actually research those people and organisations you will find the information.
I keep posting the below link. Hopefully one day someone will read it. If I get time later on I will post some other links. Anyone who has a uterus should be especially cautious about using compounded progesterone creams and troches.
https://www.menopause.org.au/hp/information-sheets/212-bioidentical-hormones-for-menopausal-symptoms
This is post where Dr Currie posted her concerns about BHRT.
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,34497.0.html
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I have read the links before Dana but I don't find them relevant to the type I take or talk about so I feel they are safe.
The concerns about some of the Australian and US products that had quality issues are unlikely to apply to British products as we have much higher checks.
The other (extremely important) concern is about using a strong enough progesterone to oppose the oestrogen prescribed. A UK doctor will not prescribe a compounded progesterone with a high dose oestrogen gel or patch, they will use Utrogestan (or synthetics). They will only prescribe a compounded low dose oestrogen with compounded progesterone (or progesterone alone) as they are fully aware of the danger of unopposed oestrogen.
Other countries may not be so strict and, even with the less trustworthy pre-packaged progesterone creams you can buy online (the opposite to compounded), they would not sell it, or advise its use, alongside a high dose oestrogen patch or gel.
It's great to make people aware on here that compounded products cannot be tested like pre-packaged but I think we're in fear of throwing out the baby with the bath water if we dismiss all compounded meds, particularly as some of us on here have had their lives literally saved by them. I've certainly not seen any posts where they are being encouraged before NHS options have been ruled out.
Appreciate your views though, especially if you've had a bad experience yourself with them. I'm dealing with unopposed oestrogen myself and none of the NHS options could help me and I do think it's dangerous to just leave it surging about and possibly stimulating more growths (beyond some benign liver nodules the NHS confirmed we're from high oestrogen).
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I think you're a bit misguided about the compounded progesterone issue. I think you are also putting your head in the sand assuming that everything is so much better or safer in the UK. Australia probably has some of the strictest regulations in the world. We didn't even get Utrogestan until last year because the TGA wasn't convinced of its effectiveness. Read what Dr Currie and Prof Studd say and they are in the UK. If BHRT has only fairly recently shown up in the UK you have absolutely no idea how well they are or aren't being regulated. It will be exactly like it is in other countries because seeing as they are made on an individual basis they are able to bypass all the normal regulations. I only used compounded progesterone cream for about a month many years ago so it's not because any "bad experience". I've just done the research on it.
Of course there is a place for the compounding of medications for people who aren't able to take stock standard medications for whatever reasons, but many in the compounding industry are playing on the fears women still have about regulated HRT and making them feel like it is somehow a safer or more natural approach and it simply isn't. If you have a legitimate and genuine reason for using compounded hormones, and you are being supervised by a doctor who has specific knowledge of compounding (not all doctors do) fair enough, but if you are using it because you believe the spiel from the compounding industry then you are taking unnecessary risks IMO. Anyway I can only offer a warning. Everyone has to make their own choices.
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Compounding is regulated to an extent if it is performed under a specials manufacturing licence. It's not if it's performed under section 10 of the medicines act. Regardless, the efficacy is not assessed as there is no product licence (marketing authorisation) and the responsibility for that sits with the prescriber (which rightly or wrongly makes me uncomfortable when talking about private treatment)
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Morning ladies there is hope for us all I just say look at our mothers,grandmothers and so forth and there was no websites,hrt and they got through it positive thinking my lovelies :)xx
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Hi Lollipop
Love your outlook on all this. I often smile when reading your posts as you're so upbeat. Now I'm feeling a bit better I think about my predecessors and what options they didn't have. But go back 5 years and I'd have slapped someone who said that ! Plus, think about how many poor women ended up in asylums because of menopause. I think the simple facts are some women unfortunately are hit a helluva lot harder than others. Having been at rock bottom physically and emotionally to where I'm at now (not great but a damn site better) my heart goes out to the women still at rock bottom, it shouldn't be the case for them in this day and age x
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My mum (who I lived with at the time and barely had a hot flush), Nan and other older female menbers of my family barely noticed their meno so I'm hoping I'll be the same if genes are involved! I have hormonal migraines and no one else in our family have had this so could go either way for me...
I suspect the asylum thing was very true and even in this day and age my GPs looked a bit scared of me everytime I rocked up asking for help, clearly suspicious of my mental health! I would definitely have been committed.
Just to reply re the compounding industry, I personally wasn't seduced by it as it's very low key where I am in London and I just sought out a hormone expert and she recommended the compounded meds. She is a BMA endocrinologist who is an expert in women's health and used to be an NHS surgeon. In the U.K. you cannot get compounded hormones without a BMA prescription.
Also, from a close friends personal experience with Studd, I find my doc to be more ethical in that she doesn't sell the same system to every single patient and appears to be more knowledgable than him on perimenopause and PMT issues.
If I was cynical, I'd also say that MDs aren't always going to have non-biased opinions as they are of course a business and are competing for the same chunk of the market! However, I'm not so I won't ;)
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From NHS.... http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Hormone-replacement-therapy/Pages/Alternatives.aspx#bio-identical
From NAMS.....http://www.menopause.org/publications/clinical-practice-materials/bioidentical-hormone-therapy/compounded-bioidentical-hormones-what%27s-the-harm-
From FDA .....https://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm049311.htm
However, individual choice, just make sure you are aware of all the information.
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MDs? Business? What is an MD in this context? Can't be medical doctor as they are not a business as such - well not the NHS ones anyway.
Hurdity x
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Private consultants? :-\
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Hello- MDs - medical doctors? Business? I would say that most NHS medical practices/ surgeries are run as businesses. Sad but true x
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Yes Medical Doctor. I mean in the sense that if I was googling a private hormone consultant in Central London, I may find Studd's site and London Hormone Clinic's pop up and I might compare their services to decide which to go with, so they are in direct competition for my business.
I guess part of choosing the non-regulated options (including herbs) are also down to the risk taking side of your personality. I have also bought the mini pill online (reputable UK site where you consult online with a GP) but I know many people wouldn't dream of doing that!
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I certainly would, Dangermouse! I was going to use the same pharmacy to get Tibolone, but in the end they insisted on a prescription for that one (I got it from the meno clinic anyway in the end. Didn't work out for me anyway)!
Another way is to use Pushdoctor, but I hear a lot of folk have had problems with their booking slot so until they sort it, I'll give it a miss. I'd go to great lengths to avoid my present GP, as I've posted about before. For those of us who are having shoddy treatment (my Consultants have been fine though) no wonder we're exploring alternatives. If there was some kind of consistency in the NHS then folk wouldn't need to go elsewhere. It really has become a shambles and is no longer centred around delivering good patient care, especially at GP level in so many cases and ESPECIALLY when it comes to issues surrounding menopause! >:(
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I'm lucky as my new gp is absolutely fantastic,couldn't hope for anything better ! Quite unlike the old surgery. 😀
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Just wondering if anyone has heard from twoodie recently?
Am a bit concerned as she was so unwell
Love Alesia xxx
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Hi Alesia, how thoughtful of you. We pm'd each other yesterday. Hopefully she'll be along to update us soon, but we were in touch. Love xxx
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Hi Alesia, How lovely of you to worry! I have picked up a bit and am just waiting to speak with Prof Studd on Thursday. Anxiety is still high and dont recognise this person I have become but Im trying to just be accepting of it being hormones and one way or another it will pass. It has to right?
Im getting lots of calories down me but no appetite still. Hope you are continuing to get better. xx
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Oh Twoodie so good to hear from you and lovely to hear you've picked up a bit!
I'm with you on the not recognising who we've become but yes it has to get better, and it's so good to hear you are managing to eat more :)
I had a good day yesterday but not today sadly :( but I have to be thankful for those good ones and try to hang on to them.
I will have my fingers crossed for you on Thursday I so hope prof stud can help you.
Love and best wishes
Alesia xxx
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Hi Twoodie..you sound just like I was..
Soda water works for me, I get a pack of small bottles, so it doesn't go flat, from Asda, brilliant for the nausea and it helps with the anxiety too.
Be very careful of the vomiting and get your hubby to get you the dialoryte sachets from the chemist it will replace salts you're losing when being sick
Sending you a big hug
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Hi twoodie you sound the same as me exactly 😰
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Hi two die I have anxiety out of nowhere to awfull and scary, have never taken tablets either, wake up scared it's awful, my mum and sisters don't know what to do, my husband has been brill, it's driving me nuts, I'm normally happy silly and all my mates wonder what the hell has happened, are you feeling better now ? X
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Hi Hilary Olley
:welcomemm:
Maybe you could start a new thread in the New members area telling us about yourself and where you are in menopause so that more members can welcome you, as your post will probably get missed here.
Hurdity x
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Not sure how I do that :o
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Hi twoodle im the same as you and seeing professor Stubb how are you now my anxiety is so high but seems to die down in the afternoon, are you better? Mine started in April to out of the blue 😰
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Not sure how I do that :o
Hi again Hilary Olley
Go to the home page of the forum and you'll see all the sections. Click on new members and then you'll see little blue tab "New Topic" at the top of the board just above "Last Post" . Click on that and you're away! You could just start a new thread in this section if you want ie All Things Menopause. Twoodie hasn't been on the forum for a few weeks so you may not get a reply but if you start a new topic with a suitable thread title you'll be sure to get replies from some members :)
Hurdity x
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MDs can be medical doctors in the NHS. They can also be Managing Directors of Companies. GP Practices have been run as businesses for many years (as are charities). Most specialities have 'short forms' in each industry ::) ......... go to a meeting of Chemists and it's all short forms :D