Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Night_Owl on April 20, 2017, 08:39:55 PM
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Documentary in which Kirsty Wark sets out to find out the truth about the menopause. Featuring personal accounts and expert advice.
Maybe worth watching.
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Did U watch, I'm going onto 'catch up' thingy at the weekend.
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I just watched it. Not sure I learned anything but then I guess there are a lot of women who know a lot less and just suffer.
I really feel for the generation who arent familiar with the internet. We are very fortunate
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Did U watch, I'm going onto 'catch up' thingy at the weekend.
Same here - hope it isn't depressing :o
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Well I watched it. Just wish these meno programmes would not concentrate so much on the hot flushes and joint pain so much though. Yes, the hot flushes can be dreadful for a lot of ladies but no mention of the awful anxiety, feelings of utter doom and awful problems for ladies who go down the HRT route and have reactions to that and the problems getting it right. It's portrayed as the panacea for everything when it is clearly not. Also, not much emphasis on the appalling lack of knowledge of our GPs either. Shame, as my DH was 'tentatively' watching and so I would have had the chance for him to understand how utterly exhausted I feel and how my anxiety is not just 'all in my head' 😡
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Justjules I agree all the programme seemed to cover was hot flushes, at this moment I would rather swap the awful anxiety for the flushes, my DH doesnt get the anxiety either as it just came out of the blue as I have never been like this in my life, it is a shame they didnt show the depression & anxiety that a lot of us women suffer daily which yes your right is exhausting, it is the not knowing how you are going to feel tonight let alone in the morning, women already think the menopause is just hot flushes & periods ending but there is a lot more to it than that which I have found out having hit me like a steam train! :'(
How it affects everyone in the family would also have been useful to point out
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I thought it did not concentrate on any particular symptoms - it was more about menopause and beyond and the long term effects of lack of oestrogen. I think that is because they are still trying to turn the tide from the after effects of the studies that condemned hrt. It is a long and hard job.
If they did a programme concentrating more perimenopause symptoms, it would go on forever with all the bleeding problems, flooding, flushing plus all the post meno symptoms. It is the lack of confidence that has hit me hard - one day I am fine, the next everything is too scary and I want to just get on with it and die. I was talking to someone who had to give her job up because she was physically shaking before she went in.
No one seems to know what is going on in perimenopause. The doctor I saw who said 'anything goes in menopause' was probably right. It would be good to have more and better information out there.
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Just watched. I really enjoyed it. My sense was it was it covered societies attitude to hrt and meno more than symptoms and treatments. I found it reassuring but agree that more programmes covering other aspects of meno are needed. Interesting that Kirsty Wark regrets coming off hrt and at 61 is considering going back on it. I learned a bit from it but then I have been in the dark a long time prior to finding this forum 😉
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I found it quite good, and interesting to put faces to names such as Prof Lumsden. On a purely superficial level, and slightly off topic but did Kirsty Warke wear the same clothes every day of the course of the film ? :)
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Overall thought it was good, excellent for raising awareness - however it would have been helpful to mention the HUGE RANGE of symptoms that many women experience - and those who can no longer work or function because they feel too ill. HRT can be very helpful for many women but it is still not the cure-all solution - there are others that it only helps partially or who cannot tolerate it at all. Guess I'm viewing it from the minority though, ie. the Truly Hideous Menopause sector.
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Oh, was Professor Lumsden on it? She's my Consultant (seeing her again in 2 1/2 weeks to tell her I had to give up on HRT - that should be interesting. I've been waiting for a call back from her for 6 weeks now)...... ???
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Hello ladies.
I thought the programme presented a reasonable overview but didn't tell me anything I didn't know and certainly didn't cover all the horrible symptoms I have experienced! Perhaps we should consider it a good introduction and hope for more in depth documentaries in the future. It probably takes a female journalist of a certain age to want to cover the subject and the only one I can think of is Mariella Frostrup who said she suffered terrible despondency when her menopause hit.
Evelyn63 - Presenters make sure they wear the same outfits during filming to provide continuity so it's odd that it distracts some viewers lol. David Attenborough said he would take several identical shirts and pairs of trousers to wear when making his films and I'm sure others do the same, I've even noticed crease marks suddenly appear where a new shirt has clearly just been removed from the packet!
All in all a worthy programme I think but hopefully they'll be more to follow.
Take care ladies.
K.
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Thank you Kathleen for clearing that up, :) I obviously have a very superficial mind to be even noticing it !! I have noticed it on other female presenters, Dr Gabrielle Weston who does some health programmes is one, it just seemed a bit strange to me . Overall the programme content was good, especially for women new to the whole meno thing. I agree it didn't focus so much on issues such as insomnia and anxiety, though it did touch a bit on anger and mood swings ! We could have our own programme , we discuss so much on here , and some of you ladies are experts in the field of menopause and counselling !
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It's a shame because I used to think meno was just about hot flushes and so it took years (and desperate months when very ill) to realise it was hormones. This programme's content seems to just compound this further. Some of the radio programmes mention anxiety but all in all without this site I would still be putting some of my symptoms down to a secondary problem (as would my GPs)!
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Agree Dangermouse- I watched it several weeks back and although I thought it was interesting, it didn't tell me anything I didn't know already and I don't think that it covered enough about the range and severity of symptoms. But given that it's just starting to get talked about and is out there, it did a good job. Given the stats on % of women not affected or some symptoms but not severe enough to badly affect their day to day lives, if they had gone into this, it would probably have scared the living daylights out of people...
Small steps I suppose but I was hoping it would have conveyed a stronger message about the struggles that some women face, especially from an employment perspective.
This site though has been a godsend to me and to countless others- I now know that I'm not some loopy nut job who needs to " man up" . I'm not lying down to it but there have been times were I have felt so ill so the information and support available through MM has been invaluable.THANKS LADIES AND DR CURRIE X
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Well, there's going to be something of a 'reckoning' when I see Professor Lumsden in just over 2 weeks. :o
I've been away for a while as you know - lots going on, meetings with old Gynaecologist, being referred to Professor of Edincrinology (just waiting for appointment) and meetings with Psychiatrist.
You will perhaps remember that I received a diagnosis of Bipolar and was due to start treatment. That hasn't happened. Since stopping HRT, the 'unstable mood' has abated and my Psychiatrist cannot now be confident with this diagnosis. It is believed that my issues were down to hormone imbalance and possible secondary hypothyroidism (hence why I've had problems stabilising on HRT).
If it wasn't for my old Gynaecologist, I would be packed full of antipsychotics by now! When my Psychiatrist contacted Professor Lumsden's office a few weeks back before I stopped Tibolone for advice, they were told 'just take her off the Tibolone and sort her mental issues out first'! Well, I stopped HRT completely and those 'mental issues' have now gone away.
I am beyond traumatised by all this, but am trying to pick myself up each day and carry on. I am of course relieved that I'm no longer on a nightmare rollercoaster.
Hubby is coming with me to my appointment and we will discuss all this with Professor Lumsden. I'll let you all know how I get on - by then I'm sure she will have a better picture of how seriously menopause and hormonal imbalance can effect women. >:(
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Good luck Tempest- you've been through the mill x
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Tempest, rollercoaster doesnt even begin to convey the emotions you have had to experience, and its frightening to think that you have gone from being diagnosed almost 100% with a psychiatic illness, which can be life changing unless properly monitored, to now being told they are not sure and it may have stemmed from HRT treatment, thats one heck of a big leap ! I hope you don't have too long to wait to see the endocrinologist as it seems this could be the final part of the jigsaw. Most women will benefit from HRT especially if its personalised to suit them but there is a small percentage like yourself where it seems to do more harm than good. Its very important that if a women presents with symptoms after commencing HRT that weren't present before, that doctors are aware and can consider it may be the cause rather than the cure. The one thing that I thought they should have done in the programme was interview a random selection of GP's and see what their knowledge base is around Menopause. As one consultant said, after the big scare in 2002, HRT was rarely prescribed, GP's forgot how to prescribe it , and some newly trained ones had no experience whatsoever so were guided by the research and scaremongering . Its only this past five years or so its now being prescribed more routinely but again its a one size fits all . I consider myself very fortunate as my GP is clearly well clued up and it was her that pointed me to MM. I am only on Vagifem so not in a position to know how knowelegable she is about other HRT but its a good start.
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One thing that did strike me was the angry lady with the knife. I kinda think that backed up the Hysteria notion. No one probed as to why she was so enraged.
All a bit too superficial really for me
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I finally got round to watching this programme on catch up and sorry to say, it really wound me up. I can't understand why so many women are living with debilitating and embarrassing menopause symptoms when they don't have to, I just don't get it. The treatment is there, the destructive HRT studies have now been completely discredited so why are these women living like that?
Take the woman with VA who can't have sex, what is her doctor doing for her? Then the woman with the uncontrollable rage and the hot flushes, what about her? Why aren't these women being advised by their doctors to take HRT? This is not just about symptom relief for the short term, this is also about protecting women from the ravages of oestrogen deprivation in later life. If they had a thyroid condition (all perfectly natural but untreatable years ago) would that go untreated too?
I like Kirsty Wark (particularly the way she lays into people on Newsnight!) but she has been sold a pup when it comes to HRT. Her oesteopenia can be attributed to coming off HRT because of the scaremongering studies and she is paying the price for that along with millions of other women. I am glad Dr Currie said she can start HRT again and it was interesting to hear her talk about 'the lost 10 years' - we will never know how far HRT products would have progressed in that lost decade. Kirsty has had a hysterectomy and could have been taking oestrogen only HRT for 10 years which is completely risk free. What a waste.
My advice to anyone reading this is please don't suffer, get help from a menopause specialist immediately and don't be scared off taking HRT.
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I finally got round to watching this programme on catch up and sorry to say, it really wound me up. I can't understand why so many women are living with debilitating and embarrassing menopause symptoms when they don't have to, I just don't get it. The treatment is there, the destructive HRT studies have now been completely discredited so why are these women living like that?
Take the woman with VA who can't have sex, what is her doctor doing for her? Then the woman with the uncontrollable rage and the hot flushes, what about her? Why aren't these women being advised by their doctors to take HRT? This is not just about symptom relief for the short term, this is also about protecting women from the ravages of oestrogen deprivation in later life. If they had a thyroid condition (all perfectly natural but untreatable years ago) would that go untreated too?
I like Kirsty Wark (particularly the way she lays into people on Newsnight!) but she has been sold a pup when it comes to HRT. Her oesteopenia can be attributed to coming off HRT because of the scaremongering studies and she is paying the price for that along with millions of other women. I am glad Dr Currie said she can start HRT again and it was interesting to hear her talk about 'the lost 10 years' - we will never know how far HRT products would have progressed in that lost decade. Kirsty has had a hysterectomy and could have been taking oestrogen only HRT for 10 years which is completely risk free. What a waste.
My advice to anyone reading this is please don't suffer, get help from a menopause specialist immediately and don't be scared off taking HRT.
Well I lived with debilitating symptoms because I know anything about the discredited studies until I found this website around 6 months ago and I still had a gp and a specialist telling me hrt= bad. The treatment may be there but I've had to fight to get it when at times I thought it might be easier to just die. I'm glad to say I'm sticking up for myself now I'm better informed but millions of women aren't so fortunate I feel. I agree, it was awful to think of do many women out there suffering unecessarily 🙂
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I'd guess if you asked 10 women (any age) if they'd take HRT, 9 would say "no as it's dangerous."
Even if GPs are slowly becoming more confident, the general public remember the scary headlines but may not then believe the newer, subtler articles about it being safe after all. Shock headlines are hard to psychologically retract.
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Good luck Tempest please let us no look forward to it .💐
The programme skimmed over VA which is just not on , I and many REALLY suffer , I am going to be in a magazine discussing VA in the near future and it is most definitely not washed over believe me .
Time to start talking vaginas .
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Maryjane are you allowed to say which magazine?
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Not yet , but will do when allowed.
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I'd guess if you asked 10 women (any age) if they'd take HRT, 9 would say "no as it's dangerous."
Even if GPs are slowly becoming more confident, the general public remember the scary headlines but may not then believe the newer, subtler articles about it being safe after all. Shock headlines are hard to psychologically retract.
Dangermouse, I totally agree, I've been on HRT since Dec 2015, and constantly worry about its safety and if I should come off it.
We need reassurance and our GP need to be better informed.
I feel so much better on HRT and although I worry about being in it, I equally worry how I could ever cope without it, having VA too.
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Tempest your battle has been absolutely hellish and I truly hope you get some concrete answers soon. In so many ways, understanding what is happening to us, is half way to managing the problems. It is very difficult to manage if we have no confidence in those treating us. I wish you well. x
Maryjane, I applaud you. It takes someone with your spirit and determination to bring these problems to light and to raise awareness with the public and medical profession alike. I really hope you're able to find something to work for you. I still have my fingers crossed that the Mona Lisa Touch brings you the relief you need. Well done you for having the courage to fight and to give the time to help all of us here whilst managing this painful debilitating condition yourself. Thank you so much. x :foryou:
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Thanks Elizabeth rose , I am very passionate about this side of menopause that is kept so hush hush , I have three daughters and a GD so feel very passionate about it.
I will no longer be anonymous as there's pictures of me and my dogs , and not the typical wow is me face but smiling , as that's all we can do is put on a smile , even when your vaginas 🔥🔥🔥. I see it just as another body part that has gone wrong , and don't understand the embarrassment personally, so for those who are embarrassed I will be there voice.😊
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Good on you Mary Jane. I though for one awful minute there that there was a picture of your vagina smiling. Speed reading! :rofl:
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That would be a step to far even for me .😳😎🤣BTW it snarles no smiling down there . 🔥😡
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Hee hee - We should start a thread on Depressed vaginas x
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MaryJane - I am looking forward to your article :)
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Tempest - I'm sure you probably already know this, but have you read Prof Studd's website where he talks about too many women being misdiagnosed as bi polar, when it's actually severe hormonal fluctuations causing their mood swings? He goes on to describe treating women who have been put on a cocktail of anti psychotic drugs, and even given electro-convulsive therapy for their depression. After just 3 months of hormone therapy, all their 'psychotic behaviour' completely disappeared, and they made full recoveries. Some poor, poor women had been walking around like virtual zombies for years and years, drugged to the eyeballs.
He also talks about the Royal Society of Psychiatry's absolute refusal to acknowledge the role of hormone therapy for women suffering with mood swings/anxiety etc.
It is a CRIME that women are being medically abused and neglected and misdiagnosed like this >:(
I also ended up being referred to a psychiatrist last year. Initially, she wanted me to start down the path of some hard core anti psychotics. But when I pointed out that the only other 2 times I have ever suffered 'with mental illness' was when I took the BCP at university, and when I had PND, she acknowledged that my problem was obviously hormonal.
I am so glad you are on the road to recovery. I know exactly what you mean about 'feeling beyond shattered' by your experiences. I also feel like I have been left with some form of PTSD after everything I have been through these last 3 years. I will never, never forget how dreadful and terrified I have felt at times. I can only hope that the memories will fade in time.
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My goodness, GRL! We share so many experiences in common during this damned menopause! :(
I've read Professor Studd's research and at one point spoke to my Psychiatrist about his work, particularly in relation to FADS and how testosterone is much more than just about libido for women.
Do you know what he did? He SNIGGERED. Yup - he thought it was hilarious and said no wonder he is 'obsessed with testosterone' with a name like Studd! I mean, how infantile can you get??
This was last August, and around that time was when I really started falling apart! I kept remembering Beverly Callard, and how she had so many awful problems and TRT had helped her so much. I crumbled. I gave in. I thought - 'I am. I'm crazy. I need to do as the Psychiatrist says'. It was the WORST thing I could ever have done!
My brother flew up from Cardiff to see me in March as he was so very worried about me. He's a very loving and clever guy - doctor of Physics. We spoke solidly for 2 days and i told him everything. He steeled my resolve and after speaking with him, I fought back. His help and that of my old Gynaecologist of over 10 years have helped me to get out of the dark hole and misdiagnosis that I was trapped in.
Like you, I don't know how, when or if ever I will heal from this experience. But at least I'm not stuck on antipsychotics which cause metabolic syndrome and other terrible health problems and I'm so very glad you didn't get forced down this route either.
I watched the programme on I player finally last night. I delayed as I thought I might find it too 'raw' but I actually enjoyed it very much (Dr. Currie was lovely). I just hope Kirsty, Dr Currie and Professor Lumsden visit these forums and read our stories too. It's much, much worse the awful way in which some of us have been treated than they could ever imagine, I feel.
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Thank you Kathleen for clearing that up, :) I obviously have a very superficial mind to be even noticing it !! I have noticed it on other female presenters, Dr Gabrielle Weston who does some health programmes is one, it just seemed a bit strange to me . Overall the programme content was good, especially for women new to the whole meno thing. I agree it didn't focus so much on issues such as insomnia and anxiety, though it did touch a bit on anger and mood swings ! We could have our own programme , we discuss so much on here , and some of you ladies are experts in the field of menopause and counselling !
The clothing thing is because documentary makers do not shoot linearly to a script. The programme is filmed in various locations and with various interviewees as and when those people and places are available and then the programme maker puts the programme together for viewing in the cutting room. If the presenters wore different clothes every day of filming, the end result would be a programme where the presenter was in a pink dress, oh, now it's black trousers for a minute, skirt and top for an interview, back to the pink dress for a second, oh and it's a blue coat for a moment etc.
If you watch it you may have noticed that all the dragon investors on Dragons Den wear the exact same clothes for every episode of a series. For the same reason. They film the footage but put the episodes together afterwards. I remember Deborah saying they all had several sets of identical clothing left at the studio for filming in.
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It was very superficial and made it all sound so easy.
I didn't recognise my own struggles in it at all. How could they do a programme where the only mention of moods was a reference to a "low" mood and a woman who ranted at her husband a lot? What about the crippling anxiety, fear, doom, depression, self-loathing, loss of everything that made us what we used to be? No. Just moved on over that.
This forum alone is enough to show how often the HRT route doesn't work so well either.
Very poor programme in my mind.
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I agree Sue, it was VERY lightweight in that respect!!
I enjoyed seeing my own Consultant, Professor Lumsden though. I hope very much to see her in person again at my appointment in under 2 weeks as I have much to discuss with her and only saw her registrar last time. Hubby has LOTS to say to her too, as he's been my rock these last few months and can vouch for how bad things have been.
I'm better now quite a bit mentally OFF HRT but I am scared witless of the long term implications of this - especially in light of Kirsty Wark's osteopenia diagnosis and her being in the same position having had an oopherectomy like me!😮😮
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Oh my God Tempest, I can't believe your psychiatrist SNIGGERED >:( How incredibly puerile and unprofessional of him >:(
Sadly, it doesn't surprise me though. The psychiatrist I saw was quite dismissive that my hormones could cause such extreme symptoms, and I had to really fight my corner with her. As you know, this is incredibly hard when you feel so mentally low and drained already. How very easy to just meekly follow advice and slip into a drugged haze :( I do actually take the Quetiapine she offered, but it's at a very low dose, nowhere near the dose required for any psychotic disorder, and is just to help me sleep (and it works beautifully, I must say. No more hellish 4am waking filled with dread).
I'm glad your brother (who sounds lovely) was able to support you, and give you some rational advice, when you were feeling irrational. Luckily, my DH is a scientist by training too, and was able to be the voice of reason when I was sobbing hysterically and wanting him to drive me to A&E. He's known me since university, and knew this wasn't the 'real me' talking, and he just kept reminding me of that.
As for feeling mentally scarred by this experience, I'm wondering whether some form of PTSD counselling might help us? Then again, I recall when I was in the depths of PND thinking I would NEVER get over it. But, it did fade eventually. Though it took a few years. So, we might well be okay?
I also thought the Kirsty Wark documentary was very much Meno-Lite. Just women who were struggling with hot flushes, and popped a few Red Clover tablets, and all was well again. Oh if only it were that easy.
I wish they'd interviewed Beverley Callard and Marion Keyes, as they both had mental breakdowns thanks to the peri menopause. I think Beverley Callard tried to commit suicide at one point? That would have highlighted the very dangerous aspects of hormonal depression and anxiety.
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GLR & Tempest It was thanks to reading Prof Studd's research that made me realise that for me a hysterectomy & BSO was my only option to get rid of severe PMS which had led me to trying to commit suicide back in 1991/2. Psychiatrist I saw after that was of no help trying to find reason, then in 2013 my old GP diagnosed depression, eventually 3 years later thanks to my research & fab new GP I was diagnosed with severe PMS! Just wish it hadn't taken around 30 years to get help I needed xx
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Yorkshiregirl, it's criminal how some poor women are neglected in this way. I think it was DonnaCrichton who said that her consultant told her that he'd had 4 patients commit suicide because of PMDD, which is the more severe form of PMS :'(
The medical profession need to know just how serious hormonal depression/anxiety can be for some women.
When I look back over my life, I can see how my behaviour was ruled by my hormones on a monthly basis.
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I had a near mental breakdown yesterday, poor hubby didn't no what to do with me , sobbing uncontrollably like a baby , what over I have no idea .
The morning before , hubby had a slightly different tone to his voice ( it was honestly fine ) but I sobbed uncontrollably, and started laughing at the same time as I didnt no which way was up , contained myself then went for a dog walk.
Awful VA does not help my mental state at all either . 😏
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Hi GRL It sounds awful but I do think the fact that I kept having suicidal thoughts helped my case. Sorry to go on but in this day and age surely all bases should be covered, there needs to be more coverage of severe PMS even maybe in school. Why are consultants/doctors not more aware a patient shouldn't have to do their work for them. Enough ranting I think!! X
Maryjane hope you're feeling more human today. My poor hubby had to put up with my mental breakdowns 2-4 times a week sometimes even more! X