Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Lazydaze on March 28, 2017, 10:36:54 AM
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I have been using vagifem since about May last year. Looking back, i can see a number of symptoms which I didn't relate to it. My fingers have swollen so much I can't wear my rings, my bras are all painfully tight, I am suffering from headaches and digestive issues, and I have gained weight. My breasts also hurt. I didn't connect these things to vagifem, but the light is going on in my head! If I stop taking it, I am back to the constant dryness, burning feeling and threat of UTIs. I was having constant UTIs before I took vagifem. I was also not warned by the doctor there were ANY side effects, she assured me it would not cross into my blood. I am hyper sensitive to hormones and antibiotics in general, and the pill when taken for a short time in my youth caused terrible problems.
Has anyone experienced similar side effects and did they stop taking vagifem? I hate using it but the alternative is misery. What on earth did women do before these things were invented? They can't have spent their lives having urine infections or in pain?
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Hi Lazydaze
:welcomemm:
I too am very sensitive to hormone change and do experience side effects from the Vagifem. To be honest they are very slight; weight gain, front of breast awareness, however, for me the benefits far outweigh the negatives. My flushes have decreased, my slight urinary leakage is resolved and internally I'm lubricated and comfortable again.
I will definitely continue using it and am resolved to finding a way to reduce this weight gain one way or another!
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Lazydaze, do all those side effects definitely stop if you stop the vagifem for a month? Or could they be menopause related?
I just wish the vagifem alone worked for me. But they don't.
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I don't think that there is a) enough oestrogen to migrate and b) it is localised otherwise I wouldn't be allowed to use it.
Vaginal atrophy mimics urine 'infections' but is rarely infection, the ONLY way is to have a fresh urine sample sent to a Lab. to check for growth. VA for me irritates my bladder and this is noticeable for 24 hours following treatment with Ovestin1mg. After that the feelings settle.
HORMONES >:( ::)
I think that weight gain goes with ageing ........ as ladies who have never been treated for VA complain of not being able to lose.
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I'm afraid that some hormone sensitive women can react CLKD, my specialists aren't at all surprised. All has been discussed. x
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I went up a bra cup size, from a B to a C, when I started Vagifem 6 years ago and I have remained the same, I didn't keep on increasing.
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Interesting :thankyou:
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Haha, thank goodness for that babyjane, you'd need a couple of hammocks now! :boobs:
Mine are bigger at the moment but so is my belly! ;) x
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:rofl:
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Hi ladies glad I found this thread. I started taking vagifem for urinary problems and dryness. Within 3 days: back to mood swings that had been eliminated on everol sequi for nearly 6 months, really sore breasts that I hadn't had at all on everol, bloating, weight gain, in the plus side sleeping better and definitely stopped me getting up at night but I stopped it after 4 weeks due to anger/irritability/low mood/no libido (which had been getting so much better) so all symptoms for which I started HRT in first place.
So yes, absolutely agree, sensitivity to hormones as in other meds.
Only trouble now is my hrt appears to have stopped working-having hotbflushes again at night, not sleeping well, absolutely no libido and very low mood. Oh plus had a massive bleed (proper period, first in 5-6 months). Will this reverse again does anyone know or should I be referred to meno clinic? I was doing so well it's very frustrating. Ps recent scan showed very thin womb lining, cysts and fluid in tube-awaiting gp appointment.
Thanks ladies, any advice much appreciated.
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Oh Sparky, not everyone gets side effects, and not all of them all the time. Very little of the active ingredient is absorbed, side effects are more likely to be caused by the fillers.
I had a few effects for the first 3 weeks but that was 6 years ago and I wouldn't be without it now. Your poor fanny, give it a chance of relief :(
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Haha Sparkle, remember I'm a freak!! 8) No really, very few people seem to react and my side effects are no trouble, in fact I'm quids in really as the flushes are greatly reduced. I would definitely recommend using them, the alternative is not comfortable! x
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I have been using vagifem since about May last year. Looking back, i can see a number of symptoms which I didn't relate to it. My fingers have swollen so much I can't wear my rings, my bras are all painfully tight, I am suffering from headaches and digestive issues, and I have gained weight. My breasts also hurt. I didn't connect these things to vagifem, but the light is going on in my head! If I stop taking it, I am back to the constant dryness, burning feeling and threat of UTIs. I was having constant UTIs before I took vagifem. I was also not warned by the doctor there were ANY side effects, she assured me it would not cross into my blood. I am hyper sensitive to hormones and antibiotics in general, and the pill when taken for a short time in my youth caused terrible problems.
Has anyone experienced similar side effects and did they stop taking vagifem? I hate using it but the alternative is misery. What on earth did women do before these things were invented? They can't have spent their lives having urine infections or in pain?
Hi lazydaze
:welcomemm:
Whereabouts are you in menopause? If you are peri-menopausal then the extra oestrogen itself is negligible and would be lost in amongst your own cycle (as CLKD says - she couldn't use it otherwise and she is post-meno and slim!).. There is some systemic absorption but it is absolutely tiny and any side effects due to initial absorption should settle after a few weeks at the most, once the vaginal cells are plumped up. You would be more likely to notice the effects of this tiny amount of oestrogen if you were several years post-menopause - and your own oestrogen levels were very low, and especially if you had low BMI since some oestrogen is stored in fat if you are post-menopausal.
Have you been to see the doc about your symptoms? Swollen fingers do not sound normal. Side effects like this would be extremely unlikely to persist from estradiol itself - as this is the same molecule that is made in our bodies. The pill that you took years ago consisted of very high doses of synthetic oestrogens and progestogens and your reaction to this would have no bearing on how you react to Vagifem. I would ask to get checked out but probably not to do with the Vagifem, I wouldn't have thought. If it is this, then it would be more likely to be a reaction to the fillers rather than estradiol (unless as above you are well post-meno and thin!).
There is another type of vaginal oestrogen called estriol which comes as a generic (0.01 %) or Ovestin at 0.1 %. These are listed here: https://menopausematters.co.uk/local.php - you would have to check the list of ingredients to see if you are OK with them if you are hypo-allergic to chemcials? if the fillers are a problemn then there is the Estring which is a rubber ring ( are you OK with rubber) which you insert and just gives out Estradiol. That is higher dose though but still tiny tiny amount compared to what's probably in your system.
Hurdity x
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Hi ladies glad I found this thread. I started taking vagifem for urinary problems and dryness. Within 3 days: back to mood swings that had been eliminated on everol sequi for nearly 6 months, really sore breasts that I hadn't had at all on everol, bloating, weight gain, in the plus side sleeping better and definitely stopped me getting up at night but I stopped it after 4 weeks due to anger/irritability/low mood/no libido (which had been getting so much better) so all symptoms for which I started HRT in first place.
So yes, absolutely agree, sensitivity to hormones as in other meds.
Only trouble now is my hrt appears to have stopped working-having hotbflushes again at night, not sleeping well, absolutely no libido and very low mood. Oh plus had a massive bleed (proper period, first in 5-6 months). Will this reverse again does anyone know or should I be referred to meno clinic? I was doing so well it's very frustrating. Ps recent scan showed very thin womb lining, cysts and fluid in tube-awaiting gp appointment.
Thanks ladies, any advice much appreciated.
Hi Optimist - the symptoms you mention are more likely to be due to your own hormones and cyclical changes (possibly also as a result of the HRT) rather than the Vagifem (the dose is very very small especially in realtion to what you are already taking!) - as shown by your having a period, and hot flushes appearing. It may be that you need a higher dose (of HRT) which is better obtained by having separate oestrogen patches with some form of progestogen - either Provera or Utrogestan ( Progesterone). Perhaps give it some thought - but don't stop the Vagifem!!!
Hurdity x
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Hurdity 😊 Think the ring is silicone , or is silicone rubber 🙈
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Thanks hurdity. Should I do the vagifem 2 week reload or just go back to x2 weekly? I'm a bit worried about starting it again. Also those other options you mentioned above is it a different type of oestrogen? Should I ask to try that instead? I'm feeling a bit wretched at the moment after feeling so good for a few months. Flat, mood swings, sore breasts etc not sleeping well again. I shall go back to GP and have a chat x
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Some people can be sensitive to the fillers or coating in medications which is true of Vagifem. I use Ovestin1mg for VA which is the other option.
What was the question again :-\
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Hi Optimist - I would do a reload.
Thanks Maryjane - I had rubber in my head!
Other vaginal preparations - the estriol cream and ovestin is a different type of oeestrogen ie estriol. Does the same job for VA but different preparation - some find it too messy. Estring is estradiol like vagifem. All the HRT types except for the PRE types are estradiol. Good luck with your doc and hope you get some relief soon :)
Hurdity x
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My GP warned me that 'it might be messy' but quite honestly, used at night, it's no messier than my own secretions ;-) and quite honestly, if it does the job I don't care HOW MESSY :D
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Thanks ladies good to know there's another option. Beginning to wonder if it was my own cycle overiding the HRT -(as you suggested Hurdity) but still think the vagifem bought on the bleed. Changing patches to oestrogen only tomorrow and mood lifted a bit today....maybe the Rick Astley concert helped 😬💗 x
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Oh Get You ;D .......... did you need a fan ;-)
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Glad you are feeling better Optimist.
The vagifem would not bring on bleeding from the endometrium ie a period. This can only be due either to progesterone ( a proper period) or if the endometrium gets overthickened from oestrogen as can occur in anovulatory cycles during peri-menopause - and the lining comes away sporadically. However as you on HRT even if you do not ovulate you should get a withdrawal bleed towards the end of the combi patches or just after returning to the oestrogen only. Vagifem would have no effect on this - it really is the minutest amount of estradiol which does not affect the endometrium! However sometimes women get spotting due to trauma to vaginal walls from the Vagifem applicator for example.
I hope you are still feeling improved! :)
Hurdity x
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Your undercarriage will thank you ;D
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Sparkle, you'll be :cancan: in no time! ;D x
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seriously Sparky, well done. Be patient if you get a few side effects for the first few weeks. My hot flushes did get slightly less and were not so strong but I didn't notice this until I had used it for about 2 months. I just kept persevering because the alternative was not an option. I got a bit of cramping the first few weeks but on the whole nothing that would have caused me to give up. Once I had done the 14 day loading things settled down quite quickly. I have used it for 6 years now and use one every other night. that is the right dose for me, you might be different. Twice a week is not really enough now that we are given the 10mg pessaries. It used to be 25mg :-\
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I am throughly confused about the merits of using Vagifem. I have discovered that it should only be used for 3 months and then stopped and only restarted if symptoms are bad. There is no evidence about long term use, it is a complete unknown beyond one year, and i am not even convinced there is enough knowledge about that. There is a lot of controversy about oestrogen dominance, and although we are told the vagifem will not cross into the blood, why then are side effects experienced? Why does it increase the risk of some cancers? My GP said nothing about side effects or an increased risk of cancers when she prescribed Vagifem for life. I hate the idea of using this stuff for the rest of my life. Previous to using it I had many of the symptoms described by others on this site, constant UTIs or feeling like i had them, painful sex, urinary urgency etc etc I just cannot believe that all women suffered this in the past. There were no antibiotics, so what happened? Surely this must be a lifestyle thing?
No one on this forum seems to have found an alternative to using Vagifem which has relieved symptoms I have read on another site that honey (thumbnail amount) inserted in the vagina twice a day is very helpful! It is sticky and messy but I am willing to give it a try... I really hate the idea of taking Vagifem for life and putting my health at risk.
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What rubbish - where on Earth did you get that info from? Please: let us know!
Ladies have been told - and I am sure that those here will verify - that localised oestrogen can and should be used vaginally for as long as necessary, i.e. LIFE! It is rare that the product is absorbed further than locally. Why would it be? it is designed to soak the vagina with oestrogen to plump up tissues to ease atrophy. Some ladies have to use other products in order to keep the area moist and some ladies have such bad atrophy that the vaginal skin has fused :-\.
UTIs are ONLY diagnosed when a fresh sample is sent to a Lab.. Dip sticks cannot show any 'bugs'. Sadly atrophy does mimic bladder infection-type feelings, which is why oestrogen is prescribed to ease those feelings. For me it was like razor blades up there :o and I could not have continued with that. Fortunately my GP was aware of what my bladder irritation might be caused by >Phew<.
I don't understand your comment: I and other ladies use Ovestin1mg, another oestrogen replacement delivered with an applicater; initially every night for 2 weeks followed by twice a week. Some find that they also require moisturisers - I use KY Jelly or Savlon - to keep the outer lips moist or they get dry and itchy :(. Also going knickerless if possible can make a huge different (apparently ::)) and only wear cotton pants.
Honey is a natural healer, it's the only food stuff that can't go off. However, thrush (Candida) thrives on sugars so I wouldn't recommend it to be inserted into the vagina !!!! because it can crystalise so may dry and cause itchiness. Swapping 1 problem for another ???.
If you want Quality of Life you have to ignore what you read elsewhere! This Forum is medic led by a Consultant who is dealing with menopause in her job. Recent guidelines have shown that studies done years ago were flawed so that any cancer risks at that time, are less likely to occur. I had breast cancer in the 1990s and if I had half the symptoms that some ladies suffer I would INSIST on HRT. As it is, using Ovestin is a given, my cancer was never mentioned but living an easy life has been bettered by it. Also, 1 doesn't use much doseage anyway.
What is your biggest concern?
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Hi Lazydaze and :welcomemm:
I think we can overthink things sometimes and see pitfalls in everything. I am a naturally pessimistic and negative 'what if' personality and it has robbed me of a lot of joy in life over the years. Now, in my 60s, it is more about quality of life than miles on the clock and I choose comfort over constant UTI type pain, thrush, burning, stinging and feeling like I have inserted a razor blade. Time will tell whether or not I have made the right decision but none of us know what the future holds, we all only really have now.
I do tend to believe that women in past generations probably had the same symptoms but were schooled in the 'shut up and put up with' mindset as women were not encouraged to be heard and also did not live as long as we do these days. Certainly women of a certain age were committed to hospitals and asylums with 'funny turns'.
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Do read the replies that Member Hurdity has posted half way down your thread? Your symptoms sound more like rheumatoid arthritis than anything reaction to HRT. Have a chat with your Practice Nurse and ask for appropriate blood tests. I have had various HRT treatments - years ago - as well as in the last 2 years and they have done what it said on the packet.
Sometimes The Change is exactly that and lots of problems seem to arrive at the same time >:( including auto-immune problems.
Also - I often say that 'the bus' might be along quicker than any cancer through HRT can take hold, i.e. I might be un-lucky tomorrow and would have suffered up to that point whereas by accepting any possible risks I have a Quality of Life.
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Sparkle I had started producing mucus overnight after my first night. I was amazed in the morning! x
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I'm sure you'll be fine, it's great stuff! The alternative is not something any of us would choose, so needs must! Given my ridiculous sensitivity to hormones, if there were going to be any really negative effects I'd know about it by now.
Off to bed now, utterly exhausted from weekend. Daughter coming Tues - very excited!! Night night xx
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S - what's the worst that could happen?
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Bloody hormones that's all I can say!! Rick was great CLKD.
☺️
I'm not giving up completely on vagifem but am giving it a bit of a rest as although I know hurdity and clkd said most likely my natural cycle and vagifem wouldn't cause a bleed I've associated it with that and generally going back to feeling crappy! I'm slowly working through it and I know you ladies are right but I need to feel "A" okay before trying it again. There defo were benefits felt as slept like a baby due to not waking to go to loo!
Looking back I hadn't had even a small/light bleed since being on the patches (Nov time) so likely was my endometrium building up and this time last year I went Jan to April without a period and my moods were stabilised but then had a bleed and back to moody grumpy irritable "bitch from hell" at times 😁. So have had a bleed and the scan said thin lining so must've shed the build up! Still a bit irritable but hoping hrt will kick in and override again as still feel I've gone backwards. Will speak to gp and ask for meno clinic referral if no improvement soon as may need higher dose as hurdity suggested.
Anyway hope you're all okay today...live each day as it comes I've learnt...oh and I'm coming back as a cat!!! A tom cat....sleep, eat, poop.....perfect 😁👍🏼 Xx
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A neutered Tom-cat ....... ? ;).
Optimist - do keep a diary and let us know how you get on. Sometimes I have to go back to basics.
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CKLD
https://wholewoman.com/forum/node/4385
This is where i read about vaginal honey, but I agree I had wondered about thrush being encouraged by the sugar content. There is a complex debate about using oestrogen only , and if no oestrogen is absorbed into the blood stream, why are there increased risks of cancers such as womb cancer? Why are some doctors told to tell their patients to use only the minimum dose and to have a break after the first three months to see if they still need it? We don't KNOW what the long term effects of using Vagifem are, doctors are only guessing, because its a relatively recent invention. Nothing like this is without risks and i am trying to be well informed.
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Why are some doctors told to tell their patients to use only the minimum dose and to have a break after the first three months to see if they still need it?
It is because the WHI study and the Million Women Study released results in 2002 that questioned the safety of hrt, which was highly publicised. Following this, the advice was to take hrt preparations using the minimum dose for the shortest time. This was a blanket edict for all hrt preparations so was also applied to topical oestrogen too.
Since then, the results of these studies have not stood up to scrutiny and other results have come in that have seriously questioned these conclusions. As these have been much less high profile, there has been confusion for years and it has taken a long time for everything to catch up. NICE has produced new guidelines.
Taking vagifem, or other vaginal oestrogen, twice a week is equivalent to about 1 hrt tablet over a year, in terms of what is absorbed.
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Are there risks? Which Consultant told you that? We often worry about reading stuff that is out-dated or which has been over-ridden by more recent Research.
Some doctors don't understand how HRT should be prescribed and some are more worried about their budgets than about the health of their patients ........ and I don't think that many Doctors guess what effects might be when they prescribe medication.
Thanks dahliagirl!
Also: Quality of Life? Having had cancer I wouldn't worry too much about what 'others' might suggest ::). Also, I know what the long term effects of not using Ovestin would have been for me - I wouldnt' be typing this without regular treatment :-\. Well informed is about being properly informed, not reading what 'might' be true on the internet.
This Forum is medic led. If you are really worried do send a short e-mail to Dr Currie and let us know her response.
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But the uptake of localised HRT is so low ::) .........
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The risks are clearly stated on the leaflet in the packet!! So are the possible side effects. I have noticed that as soon as i started taking Vagifem none of my rings fit and all my bras were far too tight. i have had headaches and am now experiencing strange leg pains which may not be related. i am super sensitive to chemical hormones as i said before. Vagifem leads to thickening in the womb lining and an increased risk of womb cancer . However, like so many others on this forum I can't find an alternative without the risks. My point is, no one KNOWS what the long term use of hormone replacement are, it hasn't been used for long enough. If Vagifem does not leach into the bloodstream, why are any side effects experienced at all? This is my question. For side effects to be apparent, it must be leaching into the bloodstream. My other concern is that Vagifem is oestrogen only. Some people have been advised that their partners may become feminised because the oestrogen is absorbed by the penis during intercourse. This in itself is worrying. it is easy to just swallow what the medical profession tell us (i.e. take this drug and all will be well, there are no KNOWN side effects, or they are just temporary), but i am wary of the pharmaceutical industry generally and question what i am being told, especially when different GPs say different things and generally have a poor understanding anyway of what goes on in menopause or the effects of hormones on functioning. Quite apart from the environmentally unfriendly packaging !! I am just asking these questions, not attacking or demonising.
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The way to properly test whether or not what you are experiencing are side effects or related to something else would be to stop using the vagifem for a few weeks.
On your point about penises, if that was a real worry the chap could use a condom? But (a) in my experience you wouldn't embark on jollies if you'd just inserted your Vagifem (because that would be nuts) and (b) without the vagifem you wouldn't be in a position to be inserting a penis.
Sadly, this menopause lark is all about trade-offs. Nothing is 100 per cent safe. But we live in an age where more of us are surviving to menopause, and where there are treatments for some of the effects of it which must have been nightmarish for older women in centuries past.
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Well after over 6 years I am not stopping my Vagifem, the alternative is too awful to contemplate. My husband has certainly not become feminised (he has always cried at ET ::) At my age quality of life is my priority, as it must be at any age really as we only ever have now. None of us know what tomorrow may hold.
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Vagifem leads to thickening in the womb lining and an increased risk of womb cancer does it? So does Tamoxifen even though my Consultant told me otherwise, but my friend died last year due to womb cancer following treatment: however, she had 20 years of good years until the last 3. She was 67.
I couldn't stop my oestrogen now, I would be unable to live with the razor blades up there ::). Or the constant needing to pee feelings which meant I was unable to leave the house .........
Lazydaze: what will you do if you don't use Vagifem? Some ladies find moisturisers i.e. 'sylc' can ease dryness but it won't plump up the vaginal tissue. It really can be Trial and Error at a time when Life should be fun >sigh<
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I am sharing my dilemma as I don't know what i will do either, but i cannot believe all women suffered like this before it was invented. I have the same symptoms which is why i went on it in the first place, but I do worry about what the long term effects might be and I hate feeling like a cow with huge sore breasts..... just searching for answers really.
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There is a doctor called Christine Northrup in the US who writes a lot about menopause and she has developed a supplement based on herbs which is supposedly great for menopausal symptoms and vaginal dryness. I wondered if anyone else had looked at her site?
http://www.drnorthrup.com
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Nope. There is enough confusion about what to/not use this side of the Pond ::) and if the web-site is selling anything, it is against T&Cs to post the Link.
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I think women in previous generations were the same as we are really. Some would have had more symptoms and struggled more than others, and some would have not noticed anything was amiss. Certainly some women were taken to mental hospitals with funny turns which could have been anxiety based and flushes. My own mother had a hysterectomy aged 38, never heard of HRT and was not osteoporotic or had any heart problems and lived to 82. My mother in law was much the same but developed severe osteoporosis and was very disabled and poorly with it. Like I said, we are not all the same, now or back then so you are correct in thinking that not all women would have suffered to the same degree.
Our parents and grandparents did not have access to the education and information we have, so although they did not know what it was all about, neither would they have been reading things into every symptom, they were too busy getting through the day. And, of course, there was not Dr Google, who has never been to medical school anyway ::)
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They didn't talk about it either. If someone was pregnant it was talked about in hushed tones even if she was married. One of my Grans was 'put away' after birthing one of her children, I think it was post natal depression :-\. No support as it wasn't understood. When I was growing up my friends didn't have Mums that would talk about periods so I was sent home to mine with the questions ::).
The more technology I see around me, the harder it seems for me to make a decision ::).
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The risks are clearly stated on the leaflet in the packet!! So are the possible side effects. I have noticed that as soon as i started taking Vagifem none of my rings fit and all my bras were far too tight. i have had headaches and am now experiencing strange leg pains which may not be related. i am super sensitive to chemical hormones as i said before. Vagifem leads to thickening in the womb lining and an increased risk of womb cancer . However, like so many others on this forum I can't find an alternative without the risks. My point is, no one KNOWS what the long term use of hormone replacement are, it hasn't been used for long enough. If Vagifem does not leach into the bloodstream, why are any side effects experienced at all? This is my question. For side effects to be apparent, it must be leaching into the bloodstream. My other concern is that Vagifem is oestrogen only. Some people have been advised that their partners may become feminised because the oestrogen is absorbed by the penis during intercourse. This in itself is worrying. it is easy to just swallow what the medical profession tell us (i.e. take this drug and all will be well, there are no KNOWN side effects, or they are just temporary), but i am wary of the pharmaceutical industry generally and question what i am being told, especially when different GPs say different things and generally have a poor understanding anyway of what goes on in menopause or the effects of hormones on functioning. Quite apart from the environmentally unfriendly packaging !! I am just asking these questions, not attacking or demonising.
Lazydays
Vagifem does not cause thickening of the womb lining and endometrial cancer - well extremely unlikely! The warnings you are reading are the same as all HRT.
I agree that there is little (no?) evidence on long term use of Vagifem or local oestrogen but there have been studies done on the absorption and it is very very small and the actual dose of the tablet is very very small. For example Vagifem is a 10 mcg tablet inserted twice weekly. Contract this with an HRT oestrogen tablet of 1 mg swallowed daily - I know oral doses and local doses are not comparable but 1 mg = 1000 mcg so you would need 100 Vagifem to equate to 1 x 1 mg HRT tablet - gives an idea anyway.
There is no evidence that Vagifem increases fibroids either - because the dose is so tiny.
It doesn't "leach" into the bloodstream but a small amount is absorbed systemically and this amount is negligible compared to the amount of oestrogen you have there. Also once the vaginal tissues are plumped up (from using the local oestrogen) then systemic absorption is reduced - in effect it acts as a barrier.
I agree about the environmental cost - all that packaging and those plastic blue applicators - shocking. You could use Estriol cream which does the same job but a different type of oestrogen. You get this in a tube and fill a re-usable washable applicator so more environmentally friendly.
Despite the lack of long term research gynaes are still happy to prescribe low dose vaginal oestrogen long term because of the adverse consequences for many women, of being without it - symptoms return when treatment stops.
I also agree many Gps are poorly informed about all of this but do ask for referral to a menopause clinic if there is one in your area ( listed under specialists top tabs) - where you can talk things over and air your concerns properly.
Hurdity x
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:thankyou: Hurdity. - I suppose every Ovestin packet needs a fresh set of applicators but crikey, I could set up a business with them ;D .........
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I think all the babies nappies constitute far more of an environmental disaster these days, all going to landfill. Unfortunately we can't recycle everything.
I used to be so conscious about recycling but since our council took a backward step and reduced their recycling services and started charging for others I feel less inclined to feel so responsible about it >:(
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I'm alternating between ovestin and vagifem at the moment - it's not very easy to wash the Ovestin applicator properly. Was wondering - can you put it in the dishwasher? I miss my Estring. Now that's probably the most environmentally friendly option...
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hi ancient runner- you probably can put it in the dishwasher but I'd be careful when stirring my tea!
Lazy days- I saw a gynaecologist privately a few years back when I started having quite bad symptoms of VA. My GP ( incorrectly) pointed out that I could only use Vagifem for a short period. His response was that the GP didn't know her a**e ( front or back ) from her elbow and that there was absolutely no cause for concern to use it indefinitely as absorption systemically was negligible. Every medication carries potential side effects, even the so called natural remedies.
I have a friend who had VA so badly that she started to fuse together. She's had an op to try and correct but she's still having problems - not great at all.
It's funny that you've mentioned Dr Northrup. Someone gave me her book yesterday and I've started reading it. Bits of it are a bit new agey for me but I've done a quick scan and she isn't against the idea of using HRT if it helps. We all just need to find out our own way what is going to work for us and try and live the healthiest life that we can. I hope you can settle on a routine that benefits you.
Finally, I do believe that previous generations also suffered but it wasn't really spoken about and it's not that long ago that women were committed to hospitals and asylums as the result of their hormones x
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Could drink the tea through it I guess Michele? ;)
Love your user name. I get the song in my head every time I 'see' you.
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Hi ancient runner - I use a pipe cleaner (!) to clean the Estriol Cream applicators. You can buy them in the craft sections of the pound shops. I do avoid using the glittery ones though. ;D
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Every day's a school day on MM ;D
Good idea. I guess a cotton bud would work, too, now I think about it.
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Yes, they can be useful, but don't have the necessary length. :)
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I am throughly confused about the merits of using Vagifem. I have discovered that it should only be used for 3 months and then stopped and only restarted if symptoms are bad. There is no evidence about long term use, it is a complete unknown beyond one year, and i am not even convinced there is enough knowledge about that. There is a lot of controversy about oestrogen dominance, and although we are told the vagifem will not cross into the blood, why then are side effects experienced? Why does it increase the risk of some cancers? My GP said nothing about side effects or an increased risk of cancers when she prescribed Vagifem for life. I hate the idea of using this stuff for the rest of my life. Previous to using it I had many of the symptoms described by others on this site, constant UTIs or feeling like i had them, painful sex, urinary urgency etc etc I just cannot believe that all women suffered this in the past. There were no antibiotics, so what happened? Surely this must be a lifestyle thing?
No one on this forum seems to have found an alternative to using Vagifem which has relieved symptoms I have read on another site that honey (thumbnail amount) inserted in the vagina twice a day is very helpful! It is sticky and messy but I am willing to give it a try... I really hate the idea of taking Vagifem for life and putting my health at risk.
Hi there!
I use solid organic coconut oil! Its not as sticky as honey, and really works to lubricate. Silicone lubricants can drag. But....coconut oil doesn't 'plump things up' like vagifem does. Before vagifem, I felt like my fanny had gone from a lovely marshmallowy pillow :D to a dry, hollow cardboard tube. OH would never have said as much but I know he noticed the changes too. I use one every other night. 10mcg. But, I keep a jar of coconut oil and use an old ovestin cream pessary dispenser thingy, to insert it high up, but can also just take out a scoop with a teaspoon and do the same! And watch what you do with the spoon x . ...more sugar in your tea darling? lol
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I have a thin bottle brush for my applicator, throw both parts into the bath as I'm running the water in and let them soak. I then push the brush through several times and leave to dry. I need to buy a new brush .........
:rofl:
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Thank you ancient runner- for some reason I think of those two guys with the porn star ' taches and the very short shorts, when I see your name. Was it 118 118 advert? Not that I think you've got a porn tache though- unless you've been too generous with the testosterone x
And Jenna- glittery pipe cleaners- that's what I call a proper vajazzle :lol: