Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: GypsyRoseLee on March 27, 2017, 03:33:14 PM
-
Just to quickly recap, I have been feeling progressively better since early Autumn, on Prof Studd's regime + sertraline. My sleep has been excellent (in fact, struggle to get up) and the awful anxiety and mood swings seemed to be under control. I had a rocky December, with moods all over the place, and came close to having Zoladex + Livial, instead. But decided to not to.
But since the New Year, I've been getting better again, just a few blips lasting several days, but I always bounced back, and even during a blip I could power through it.
I started another blip 2 weeks ago, and after the first week I was also prescribed Oestrodose from my GP, and not the Estrogel that Prof Studd supplied me with. Same active ingredients, but different brand, and repackaged in the UK. Within a couple of days of using the Oestrodose my blip got worse. After 5 days I felt dreadful again. I got Prof Studd's pharmacy to send me more Estrogel, and it arrived on Thursday. Within a few hours of applying it, I felt much better and calmer. Friday morning, I woke without anxiety and felt fine.
But since Saturday, my mood has been SO up and down. I either feel almost hysterical with anxiety, or really drained and fragile. It's horrible. I feel like I'm right back and square one. I woke early this morning, with a burning sensation in my chest and felt awful. I got up, applied the gel (using 4 pumps) and felt marginally better for a few hours round lunchtime. But I'm fighting off waves of anxiety all the time, and I have diarrhoea.
I only used oestrodose for 5 days, and have been back on estrogel for 5 days now. Surely, I should be feeling better not worse? I don't understand why I'm feeling so bad again? Am I reacting to absorbing the estrogel properly again, and suffering oestrogen surges?
Also, my period hasn't arrived. I felt like it was due a few days ago (it always arrives around the 25th) and I had mild cramps and a headache, but nothing has happened. I'm due to start 7 days of 100mg of Utrogestan on the 1st, so I might get a bleed then (I did last month), so ended up having my own period for a couple of days, followed by a breather for 3 days, then a withdrawl bleed a few days into the Utro.
But, I felt FINE the whole time.
This month I don't know what is making me feel so dreadful. I don't have any bloating, or breast tenderness, and all my bleeds are SO light now, but I don't have any irregular bleeding ever, so I don't think it can be too high oestrogen (despite the 4 pumps). But, I can't think it's due to too high progesterone, as the Utrogestan hasn't been a problem at all.
I am at my wit's endwith this. Any words of wisdom or reassurance are very welcome.
-
you poor love, I don't have anything useful to say as I have no knowledge or experience of HRT but I didn't want to just read your long, sad post and then turn over the page without offering a cyber (((hug))).
-
Thank you babyjane, I need that. I feel so horrible.
-
Hi, Nice to meet you all.
I had my last period 5 months ago a few weeks before my 55th Birthday, late I know but I am certainly paying for it now, my menopause has hit with a vengeance, I'm not sleeping, having terrible night sweats, flushes but also cold flushes too, I ache and literally feel like I've been hit by a bus! I have tried a few natural remedies that have not worked and If I could take HRT I would because I know it works, my symptoms are affecting my life badly, but because of a Family history of breast cancer I know it's not recommended, in saying that, is there anyone out there with that history but has taken HRT? I'd love to hear from you :-)
-
Thank you edelweiss. I have just looked back on my posts in December, and I was suddenly suffering just the same back then. A really horrible 2 weeks, with just a couple of random 'normal' days in the mix. My period was also very, very late in December, as in more than 2 weeks late (never been that late before). My period is late this month, too (should have arrived several days ago - so don't know if this is the cause?
God, I hope it lifts soon, I really do. I'm barely holding it together :(
-
Hi stella
I tried patches for nearly a year, but was very up and down on them too. I'm just one of those poor souls who a really evil rollercoaster of a peri menopause. My physical symptoms are only slight, but the psychological pains are nigh unbearable :(
-
Thanks Edelweiss, you're very kind.
He's not especially forthcoming, it has to be said. I'm already on his 'gold standard' regime, and it seems to work for me much of the time. But this dark phases I get are just harrowing, and so frightening to experience :(
-
Thank you, that means such a lot x
-
Hi GRL
Sorry things aren't great right now.
Try and hold onto this, you've been here before and you know your mood will come up back up again.
Also you have Livial and Zoladex as plan B.
On your other thread, Hurdity mentioned having your bloods done, maybe it's a good idea right now to see what's happening.
I know we seem to have very similar peri symptoms....so I know how you are feeling. I'm suffering myself at the moment being 8 weeks Post TAH,
Kept ovaries, flushes possibly into 3
Figures today. My brain in scanning like mad as to find when I last felt like this, and brings up memories of my breakdown. It's just a record that won't stop playing.
Good luck anyway, and I hope your blip passes quickly. Xxx
-
Hi Marchone (you were Mis71Mum, right?).
Feel slightly calmer now, but earlier was just awful. Had a horrible sort of surging sensation in my head, like my brain was about to implode. Really odd sensation.
You are absolutely right, that I have been here so many times before and it always passes. It's just that this is lasting a long time, and I'm starting to panic. Like you, I'm stressing that I'm going to end up having another mini breakdown, and maybe signed off work again. It doesn't bear thinking about.
I'm sorry you're struggling too. I'm just like you, in that as soon as the anxiety hits my brain goes into hyperdrive, and I'm frantically reading old posts on here, scanning the Internet, asking Dr Google 1001 questions. It's exhausting.
I have just realised I have all the symptoms for an over active thyroid, apparently - diarrhoea, twitching, rapid heartbeat, wanting to pee a lot, anxiety & nervousness, trouble sleeping.But two lots of bloods last year showed my thyroid being excellent.
I didn't realise you'd had a hysterectomy? What made you decide to keep your ovaries?
I hope your mood improves very soon, too xxx
-
Hi GRL
Yes I was MIS71MUM!
I think my therapist would call the scanning and searching that we do when anxious, safety seeking behaviour. It's hard to describe to anyone else but I know exactly what you mean.
I honestly think I have PTSD of the peri menopause breakdown I had. Every time I don't feel right, my brain flips - but it's doing what it's supposed to, by storing danger at easy to reach places. I just need to file peri menopause as something other than danger, if that makes sense!
Yes had a TAH due to adenomyosis- didn't get the choice about my ovaries unfortunately. My consultant said they looked healthy and advised hormone tests - the results were Oestrogen 91 pmol! Just proves looks can be deceiving! But also that blood tests can reveal lots.
The weeing lots though, surely that's a drop of a hormone, as I always used to get that before a period.
Good luck x
-
Hi edelweiss, I wanted to do that but couldn't see where, that's why it is where it is, can you guide me?
-
I think safety seeking behaviour sounds about right. I am basically just seeking reassurance and comfort. I keep checking back in my old diaries and calendars, charting all my ups and downs, trying to see patterns etc. I feel agitated and anxious, can't relax or even sit still for very long.
And, YES, I am nodding my head vigorously at having PTSD thanks to what we've experienced thanks to the peri menopause. I feel exactly the same, like I have been left horribly scarred by what I have suffered. Even during my recent very good phases, I always have this shadow on my mind that whipsers 'What if it happens again?' It's like a faint, constant echo that stops me feeling like the old me.
Oestrogen 91 pmol is really low! Mine was 310 pmol when I first saw Prof Studd, and even when it went up to 600 pmol he said that wasn't high at all. It's so short sighted of them not to remove your ovaries, considering everything you have been through.
-
Hi GRL. I hate to see that you're suffering still. I feel like we are part of a special club of peri troubles. As you know, I stopped the hormones just over a month ago. I am only the last few nights starting to have trouble with heat in the night, and feeling pre-menstrual tension something awful. The way I saw it, the rollercoaster I was on while on hormones was no better than I had been before the hormones. At this point I'm starting to feel exactly like I felt before I broke down and told my doctor I was going crazy, so back at square one. However, I feel like I've tried everything I could for now. My doctor isn't keen on giving me anxiety or depression meds due to an earlier bad reaction to one. I don't want to play around anymore, for now, with varying levels or forms of hormones. I simply can't do it anymore. I'm hoping if I can be patient my body will find balance on its own. For now, even with the flushes creeping back and the unsettled feelings, it's not great, but it's not any worse than the hrt. All that just to suggest perhaps you could give the hrt a break too. I'm thinking my body couldn't find the balance with me throwing additional hormones in the mix. I don't know though. Here's hoping we both get through this without too much trauma!
-
I hate that we have to suffer like this too. It's so cruel, and just seems never ending. Though it really helps to talk about it with someone who really understands.
These last couple of days I have felt as dreadful as I ever have in the past, like I'm literally splintering apart with the anxiety. Back to waking too early, filled with dread etc. Just like you, it feels like I'm going crazy, except I never actually do, I just feel like I'm trapped on the cusp of losing the plot. I think the fact that neither of us actually goes 'crazy' proves that this is a hormonal issue, rather than a full blown psychosis issue, if that makes sense?
But, weirdly, as soon as I start typing on here, or reading about hormones on the Internet I immediately feel much calmer. I don't really understand why that is? It's like I'm distracting myself. Do you get that?
I know exactly what you mean about giving up on HRT. I keep wondering how I would feel if I was on nothing? Though, when I'm feeling good, it's better than I have felt in years. So really worried about losing those feelings?
We'll have to hold each other's hands through this nightmare. We won't go crazy.
-
Hi GypsyRoseLee- I'm sorry you're going through such a hard time.
Could it perhaps be the Setraline? The reason I ask is that my GP put me on it rather than HRT to start with ( that's another story ) I didn't get on with it at all. I was shaking all the time, started hallucinating ( not great when driving the car) , kept imagining things, constantly anxious and unsettled and i felt something evil was trying to get into my brain. It was really scary and I wouldn't try them again. I was offered another type of ADs that can cause issues with heart,or the older sedative types but am currently doing ok without any although still struggling with HRT regime.
Maybe its something to consider- not everyone gets on with SSRIs but I'm no medical expert- I. Just know how they made me feel. X
-
Hi Mihelle
I have been on sertraline since last summer, and it's since taking it that I have improved (up until now). So, I don't think it can be the sertraline? I just don't know what is happening, or what is causing this relapse? If I KNEW it was just too much/too little oestrogen, or too much/too little progesterone caused by briefly using oestrodose, then I could weather the storm until I stabilised again on Estrogel. But, I don't know and I'm really starting to panic :(
-
Oh im sorry. You are having a horrible time. It does sound hormonal. would it be worth seeing an endocrine specialist. I've just found a link on here to an article in the daily mail by Sarah vine and her horrible menopause journey
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4080470/The-workout-help-beat-menopause-SARAH-VINE-reveals-hormone-boosting-exercise-regime-helped-ease-symptoms
X
-
Thank you edelweiss. I have just looked back on my posts in December, and I was suddenly suffering just the same back then. A really horrible 2 weeks, with just a couple of random 'normal' days in the mix. My period was also very, very late in December, as in more than 2 weeks late (never been that late before). My period is late this month, too (should have arrived several days ago - so don't know if this is the cause?
God, I hope it lifts soon, I really do. I'm barely holding it together :(
Hi again GypsyRoseLee, I'm really sorry you're still struggling, I was hoping the arrival of the Oestrogel had resolved your problem. I haven't been on the forum since last week so haven't read through any of your other posts but I just saw this post and wanted to comment.
Remember we talked about your own cycle kicking in and adding to the oestrogen levels from the HRT? I wonder whether you didn't ovulate and the FSH is attempting to stimulate another follicle (follicles). When this happened to me in peri my oestrogen levels were through the roof and the symptoms of that were dramatic. Even on 4 doses of Oestrogel my cycle wasn't suppressed. Some of us just don't follow the norm!
It seems to be my mantra but do start charting, a very clear picture will develop quickly. I always feel that if we can understand what is happening to us and why, we are much better able to ride the storm. As far as ADs are concerned, the Sertraline has served you well so as they say, if it ain't broken don't try to fix it!
Look back at the postings I made on your Oestrodose/Oestrogel thread and the thread link from Machair. You may be able to recognise similar symptoms from anovulatory cycles.
I wish you better xx
-
Thank you Elizabeth. I definitely feel that 'something' is really trying to surge. My head feels like it's about to implode. So it could be FSH? I haven't had a period as yet, it has now been 32 days since my last 'natural' period, so it's definitely late (usually still very regular). I'm discounting the withdrawl bleed I had while taking Utrogestan from March 1st - 7th. So it's possible I didn't ovulate this time, and my cycle is going berserk trying to make something happen? And this has possibly been compounded by the oestrodose being weaker, and just not supressing my cycle quite as much as Estrogel was doing?
Can I ask was your anxiety much worse when your oestrogen went through the roof?
Thank you again for your posts, you are helping keep me sane at the moment xxx
-
Thank you Michele, that's a really good article :)
-
GypsyRoseLee, if I didn't ovulate, the oestrogen dropped initially causing the FSH to surge again in an attempt to stimulate another viable follicle. I was told that at this stage in our lives, the FSH reaches such levels that a number of follicles can be stimulated causing very high oestrogen levels.
These highs could last for months with me, sometimes continuing through anovulatory bleeds. It was hellish because it made me feel as if my body was going to explode! Whilst my physical symptoms and migraine were horrendous during these highs I am really very lucky in that hormones have never affected me mentally. However, many women experience high anxiety with high oestrogen levels. I think Machair and Sparkle noticed that it affected their moods (sorry my brain is addled today, I'm sure that's right!). These highs would cause symptoms identical to PMT which is why so many women are confused about why they are experiencing PMT when their oestrogen levels should be high.
Hang on in there don't despair. I bet it's a blip and all will calm again soon. I know how desperate you must feel but do chart, it is so very reassuring. My husband says I should donate my notes to medical science!! ;)
Have some of these sweetie :foryou:
-
Thank you Elizabeth. I really feel I'm just sinking lower and lower today. But thank you for the flowers x
-
I'm really sorry for you. Are you able to try to find a way to lift your spirits? I make my daughter dance! Loud funky music and wild dancing! It lifts the spirit and makes the heart glad. I swear you can't dance wildly and feel badly! Otherwise when hormonal surges and falls affect her, she pulls out the yoga mat and has a few days of 'treating' herself, little things that make her happy. Have you tried Mindfulness, see if you can find some Youtube relaxation/therapy links.
When you feel like this it pays to be proactive, wrest control, fight back, though of course it's easy to feel too overwhelmed to manage to do this!
I wish you well, don't despair! xx
-
Thank you x
I do feel totally overwhelmed by it, this time. I think this is the worst I have ever felt, and that is saying something considering the bleak days I have had in the past,
-
Then get off to your GP, see if you can get an emergency appointment! Maybe a short term increase in the Sertraline can sort you out until the hormones settle. Some times our bodies need help on all fronts, lots of women need HRT and ADs. Nothing is forever, once it's calmed you can reduce your meds again.
Either way do not struggle in silence, demand some help!! Get on the phone now!! xxxx
-
Funny that you're still questioning if it's hormonal, me too! When I'm good, I don't question it, but when the symptoms pop up agan it blindsides me every time. I'll cry to my husband that I don't know what's wrong with me. He's very good now at stopping what he's doing, looking me in the eye and telling me it's my hormones, then going back to what he's doing. Now as I'm feeling well this moment, looking back it's almost comical. I must be a special kind of stupid that I still have to be reminded.
Also, in my case, it all began with missing periods, so that's a major clue for me. During my couple years of extended bleeding, I would have a bit of morning anxiety, but was able to push it aside and move on, just kind of the jitters while I was dressing in the mornings. When the periods stopped it became crippling.
As for your own cycle pushing through, I can't say for sure my own hormones weren't doing anything at all, but I wasn't having bleeds at all during hrt without the progesterone to bring them on. And aside from the withdrawal bleed on quitting, I haven't had one since. Before hrt I had gone 6 months between my last two, so I really don't think my own hormones were changing drastically, surely not enough to cause the depression I developed on hrt. But who knows?
-
Lizab
Sorry to laugh, but your first paragraph describes me quite often.
At the moment, I'm having a flat spell where I feel miserable, edgy, empty and like I'm dragging myself through everyday. I also live in my head rather than my life. The hardest part is that there is nothing I can do about it. Then my mind starts, what if it's depression? What if it's a food allergy causing my mood? What if I feel like this forever?
Hope you are feeling better GRL.
-
Don't be sorry for laughing, Marchone71! We need to laugh at everything we can. I laugh about it too when I'm not bogged down in the midst of it!
-
Hi again GypsyRoseLee
Sorry to hear you are still struggling - not sure if I answered on this thread or one of your other ones. Either way - once you start taking HRT as you are doing, and take progesterone - it is really difficult to say what your natural periods would be doing - so when you say your period is late and you are discounting the withdrawal bleed - it is by no means certain what's causing what at this point. For example as well as the normal progesterone withdrawal bleeding (arising as a consequence of ovulation and non-fertilisation, as well as stopping the progesterone part of HRT), you can get other types of bleeding that aren't true periods as such because they are "abnormal" even though they happen with many women. So you can get oestrogen withdrawal bleeding - which some women get when oestrogen drops dramatically - such as after ovulation, or oestrogen breakthrough bleeding - which happens irregularly when the endometrium builds up from oestrogen and in the absence of ovulation - it is just shed but not in an organised way if you see what I mean! Sorry if that sounds a bit garbled!
I would have thought it is unlikely to be too little oestrogen causing your symptoms - unless you are absorbing virtually nothing - but the fluctuations - causing the variability in your moods. It is puzzling though that you would be noticing changes in oestrogen as you are on such a high dose (so this should minimise any crashes) and maybe if your own (ovulation) cycle is still happening - it is the progesterone - intolerance to it - or the normal progesterone crash that happens just before a period - that is partly to blame?
The things is from what you have said now and in the past - I am wondering why you haven't gone for cycle suppression because it does seem like it is the fluctuations that cause the worst of your symptoms. The 4 pumps don't seem to suppress your cycle but have you thought of one of the pills we're always talking about on here (not many are on it - perhaps it works so well!) - ie QLAIRA? This should even out your moods - or even the Zoladex you were considering?
Just a few thoughts and do hope you feel better soon.
Hurdity x
-
We have been on a very similar roller coaster in peri. I have read far too much thought I had lots of knowledge until 2 weeks ago. I have been telling my consultant my estrogen has been way too high & still getting fluctuations even with system suppressed. He took blood and I had less than 20 estradoil which is why I have felt down right awful. Less than a man lol. My only advice is don't over analyse your symptoms as I have done for a long time get another appointment and discuss other options. Hope you get relief soon as I know only too well how life destroying it can be xxx
-
I suspect the weaker Oestrodose temporarily knocked down your blood levels and the FSH stimulation is allowing your own oestrogen to surge - it can go really high and it does feel exactly as you describe. I remember having the head/body about to explode feeling in December which can be migraine from the high oestrogen. It can depend on where you are in your cycle when the blip occurred in terms of how long it takes to get back to where you were, as in it would have been less of a problem if you'd taken the Oestrodose during days 1-5.
Please try not to jump to worst case scenarios and see it as an iffy month like your December was as things will calm down again. As this regime seems to be the best you've had (as I remember you tried BCPs, patches etc.) then probably best to stick with it for now but good to have the other options of Qlaira and Livial if things don't settle.
Some things you could try to help ride through (apart from the great suggestions you've already had for the mind stuff) is trying paracetamol to calm the blood flow to the brain, a beta blocker (Propanalol 10mg) to take at one off times, which reduces the adrenaline but won't interfere with your AD and you may find moving about better than resting when you have surges.
The charting seems a great idea too so you feel more in control.
-
Hi GRL
How are you feeling today?
X
-
Hello All :)
I am feeling better, THANK YOU GOD. Yesterday afternoon, I felt so dreadful I nearly walked out of work and just drove to A&E. Then suddenly mid afternoon, I felt a wave of calmness just sweep over me. Felt immediately better, and like me, though felt very drained and fragile and had a nagging headache all evening. Slept much better, and didn't have any anxiety when I woke this morning, just felt nicely sleepy and blessedly normal. Still feeling much better.
Even typing this, I know how extreme and bizarre it must sound, and unless I had experienced it myself I'm not sure I would believe 'me'. But, honestly this is how suddenly it affects me.
I can't thank you all enough for your lovely, kind and supportive posts. This place is such a haven when you feel desperate.
Hurdity - thank you for your post, you always put things into perspective for me. I think you're absolutely right in that it's almost impossible to know what is causing what, when I'm on HRT + still having (possibly) my own cycle kick in/out every month. What really puzzles me is that any bleed I have, whether withdrawl or /natural/ is so very light these days, and mainly just brown spotting. Though someone did mention that if my cycle is being supressed by 4 pumps, that could be why my endometrium doesn't build up much?
So, in light of just 'not knowing' (which is what sends me into a tail spin) I have decided that the next time I experience one of these awful dips I am going to have a private oestrodial blood test done. It's only £29, and you get the result within 24 hours, and as these blips always last several days it should tell me whether my oestrogen is high or low at this time- which should explain why I feel so wretched.
I know that even on 4 pumps, last Summer my oestrogen level was only 605 p/mol, which Prof Studd didn't think was high at all. And I'm sure I have read somewhere that he likes his patients to be on at least 800 p/mol in order to cure the hormonal anxiety/depression.
donnacrichton - I think we could be peri twins, couldn't we? Yesterday, I literally wanted to be checked into a psych ward. It's very interesting that what you 'thought' was too high oestrogen causing the misery, was actually too low? God, no wonder you felt so terrible. No one else can understand, unless they have been through it. It is mental torture, isn't it? So, does this mean that you haven't been absorbing hardly any oestrogen at all (I think you use a patch?). What has your consultant suggested? I am going to have a few private blood tests, to see if they will show whether it's too high/too low oestrogen that causes these regular dips.
dangermouse - you talk a lot of sense as ever. Like I have said above, I really need to KNOW what is causing these awful surges + anxiety + diarrhoea + nausea + insomnia etc, etc. So, hopefully a few blood tests should really isolate what my oestrogen is actually bloody DOING. You're right, in that unfortunately I took the Oestrodose during the 2nd part of my cycle, with devastating results. I do think that whatever has happened these last 10 days is exactly what happened in December, and is exactly what happened March 2016, when I ended up signed off work and thought I was having a breakdown (I was only on a 50mg patch back then, and don't think it was nearly enough).
Liz - we are SO SIMILAR. Everytime I have this blip, every bloody time, I convince myself that actually it's bi-polar, or a BPD, or I'm just plain losing my marbles. And it terrifies me. But I do KNOW it is hormones, when I'm being rational, because all this only started when I noticed my cycle had become several days shorter, and my periods much lighter. Plus I had suffered with PND in the past, which is a classic marker for suffering with anxiety/depression in peri. Could it be something as simple as the progesterone part of your HRT caused the misery?
Marchone - thank you for asking. I am much, much better compared to yesterday :)
-
Hi GRL
Glad you are feeling better.
I totally understand everything you post about the extremes - if you don't mind, I can be the 3rd twin, ie triplets!
Also just googled those tests you mention, very handy when you need some reassurance.
Take care x
-
Yes, we can be the Peri Triplets - the more the merrier, well not merrier but you know what I mean.
The moods are so extreme, and sudden, it's no wonder that lots of poor women are misdiagnosed as being Bi Polar :(
I know on Prof Studd's website he talks about women who have been treated for Bi Polar, and various psychoses for 20 years or more, with little relief from their symptoms, only to finally end up in his clinic and be 'cured' within 3 months. It's heartbreaking. My poor Great Auntie had a nervous breakdown when she was in her 40s, and exhibited some very extreme behaviours. But looking back I honestly think it was most probably hormonal fluctuations. She slowly recovered as she went into her 50s, and presumably was post menopause?
I will be very interested to see what the blood tests show next time this happens? My gut instinct is that it will show my oestrogen dips too low (well, too low for me). I believe I have always produced lots of my own oestrogen, and need far more of it than 'average' to feel normal.
-
I was waring a 50mcg patch at the time. It's now increased to 75mg then to up it in a few weeks. As we both know my system doesn't handle change well. My consultant has taken blood twice. Once it was 77 then under 20 so I had convinced myself I was high so a blood test might help lots of luck x
-
Well, thank goodness you had those blood tests done. How long had you been feeling bad for? Can I ask, had you been feeling really anxious/feelings of dread etc, because that's how I'd been feeling, and wondering if my oestrogen had dipped too low, too.
-
Hi GypsyRoseLee,
I'm so pleased you're feeling so much better, it was a joy to read! Pesky hormones!!
May I ask your age GypsyRoseLee and where you think you are in peri now? Just pondering here. xx
-
Thank you Elizabeth, I'm really grateful for your lovely posts, too.
I'm 46, and all this peri Hell started 3.5 years ago. I don't really know where I am in peri now? Early menopause seems to run very strongly in the women in my family. My Aunty was only 38. Her daughter was only 28, and her other daughter only 44. Not sure when my Mum would have been menopausal as she had a hysterectomy at 42, but just like me, she suddenly started terribly 'with her nerves' as she turned 40 (so actually younger than me). Her 'nerves' disappeared after the hysterectomy.
It is about 3-4 years ago that I noticed my cycle seemed to be getting shorter, and my bleeds much lighter, but my PMS was getting worse and lasting longer every month. Some months I only got about 10 good days. I didn't have the awful anxiety back then, just this dull, flat, grumpy feeling for over half the month. Since starting Studd's regime last summer I have continued to have my own (very light) period regularly each month, followed by a withdrawl bleed when using Utrogestan.
I would very much love to think that my own cycle will stop very soon, but I have no idea xxx
-
I had a coffee with an old work colleague this morning whose struggle in early peri was very much like yours and others on here. She juggled HRT and ADs changing meds many times, hoping to find the magic formulae. She is post meno now and found that she 'truly got her life back' once the hormones plateaued a year or so after her last menstrual bleed and she stopped the HRT. She carried on taking ADs for a year or so after and then stopped those too.
I know it's impossible to say when you'll be post meno but I just wanted to give you some hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Her big problem was the progesterone, her own and the Crinone and Utrogestan she'd used. The hormonal rises and falls wrecked havoc causing extreme anxiety and depression. She suffered terribly with PND too. Like me she suffered with pure menstrual migraine so ovary removal was ruled out.
Seeing her today she is a new woman, flushing occasionally but as she said, after what she'd gone through her flushes were bearable!
It's probably little comfort to you now but when we struggle it's good to have something to cling onto. It's kept me sane for many years allowing me to ride the oh too frequent storms!
I think the bloods would be an excellent idea if you hit another sticky patch but do think about charting too as it's just another tool with which to analyse and beat back this nightmare.
I really wish you well x
-
That is a really encouraging thing to read Elizabeth, thank you :)
Suffering with nasty PND seems a classic indicator of you going on to suffer the same again during the peri menopause. When I'm having a dip I become barely rational, panicky, confused, agitated and that's exactly how I felt when I had PND. The only thing is, how will I know I am finally menopausal while taking HRT? How did your friend know? I agree with her, in that I would happily have 10 hot flushes a day, rather than the awful anxiety.
I do intend to start charting, as I think that's an excellent idea.
-
She stopped having her usual break through bleeds with her own cycle and after a while, given she continued to react badly to the Utrogestan, she was advised by her consultant to take a break from the HRT to see what was happening. She didn't have another bleed and despite having some meno symptoms she decided not to restart the HRT and to be done with it.
-
Hi GypsyRoseLee
Just to add that I am sure you know that if you have a blood tests and apply gel to your arms - not to have your blood taken from that arm or one that you use regularly, if possible, as this could give you a false high reading.
Yes puzzling about the very light bleeds (suggesting a suppression of your cycle) but the relatively high level of estradiol ( I know not high by the treatment for depressions), and yet still suffering from the extreme hormonally induced mood dips. It will be interesting to see what your blood results show.
Hope you are still feeling better today :)
Hurdity x
-
That's really interesting ElizabethRose. So, did your friend have her own, natural period + a withdrawl bleed from Utro each month? This is what I have been having for the last few months - but at Xmas, I went 45 days between 'natural' periods and really suffered. Then this month, it has been 35 days now since my last natural period.
I wonder if I will go the same way as your friend, and my own periods just peter out, with the gaps between them getting longer and longer? Common sense tells me this is the most likely scenario. But, when I'm in the middle of a 'dip' I become barely rational, I'm afraid.
But, it really does give me hope that your friend was like me, but then came out the other side. Thank you x
-
Thank you Hurdity - I hadn't thought of that? But, actually it is a fingertip prick blood test, so I should be okay?
I am very puzzled about my very light periods? Everyone else on 4 pumps, or even just 2-3 seems to have fairly normal-heavy periods? I wonder if my cycle is supressed for about 80 of the time, but then my own hormones flare up (or down) and I get these nasty symptoms?
-
I think only your specialist ( Studd?) will be able to help you understand what is happening here!
Hope you're feeling better today :)
Hurdity x
-
My pal did continue to have periods as the HRT seemed unable to suppress her own cycle. She too experienced differing gaps between her own cycles the further in to peri she moved and it was suspected that her particularly difficult months were the ones that were anovulatory when the oestrogen can suddenly rocket.
I think we may have discussed that the same happened to me when HRT was used to try to control the migs. They couldn't suppress the cycles either.
Hopefully all will continue to plateau for you for a while. If you are going to chart hopefully by the time anything blips again you'll have a decent enough record to be able to reassure yourself about what is happening! x
-
Thanks for that Elizabeth, your posts have done a lot to reassure me :)
I definitely get some months when 'something' different happens, and tips me over the edge, whereas other months pass by unremarked. I still haven't had a period yet, and no sign of one - and it's now been 37 days! About 10 days ago, I felt like my period was about to start as I had some cramps, and my tummy felt a bit swollen, but nothing happened. So, I wonder if I hadn't ovulated and that's why I had a really nasty episode?
I have just started my 7 days of 100mg Utrogestan, so might well have a withdrawl bleed in a few days?
I'm so pleased to hear your friend has now been able to move on and put all her hellish times behind her. It really gives me hope.
-
I'm not clear when you are deciding to take the progesterone GypsyRoseLee? You said you had been 37 days without a period - is that with or without progesterone? Then you are starting utrogestan soon - sorry I am a bit confused as to how you are playing this?! :-\
Hurdity x
-
Hi Hurdity
I didn't take any Utrogestan from Oct to Dec, last year (on advice of a GP, who said I could only take it every thirs month).
But, I then decided to stick with Prof Studd's regime - so, since Jan 1st, I have taken 100mg of Utro from the 1st - 7th of each month.
My last 'natural' period started on Feb. 25th, was extremely light and only lasted 2 days. I then started 100mg of Utro on March 1st, and on March 3rd another bleed started, a bit heavier than my natural period, and it lasted 4 days.
So, I expected my natural period to arrive on March 25th (as it's done this reliably for the last few months) but although I had a few cramps nothing happened. I started 100mg Utro on April 1st, but absolutely no sign of a bleed yet?
-
Hi again - I'm not sure you can say what and when your natural period is if you are taking utrogestan - it could be any number of things - I mean it could be, but equally it could be anovulatory - due to a drop in oestrogen or the lining shedding a bit by itself - especially if not accompanied by normal period feelings. As I said earlier down thread you don't really know what's happening at the moment - but if you are getting mood changes then definitely something hormonal is happening and presumably the 4 pumps are not suppressing your cycle completely - although you will not get the extreme fluctuations ( and particularly the oestrogen lows) you would get without the added oestrogen?
If you think your natural periods are still coming 4 weekly then why not count the first day of the bleed as Day 1 and take the utrogestan from days 19 - 25 and hope the bleed comes again on approx Day 1? if you are taking it monthly and your cycle is 4 weekly then it's bound to go gradually out of sync - but I presume the idea is your cycle is suppressed so if this were the case your bleed would come after stopping the utro as planned?
Aaaargh - it all sounds too complicated!!! Are you able to go with the flow? When you have your mood dips - are they improving ie for a shorter period of time or not so dreadful - can you see an improvement overall ( have you kept a mood diary etc as CLKD suggests?).
Sorry I can't really help - thinking aloud as always - but I do hope at least you feel better for more of the time now?
Hurdity x
-
Hi Hurdity
I assumed it was my own period arriving around the 25th of each month, as that's when it kept arriving last Autumn when I didn't take any Utro for 3 months.
Prof Studd did say I could try and sync my own bleed with the withdrawl bleed from Utro, so I would only have the one bleed per month to deal with. I think I tried that back in August, but felt really dreadful, and I think it was a combination of the Utro + my own progesterone giving me a double whammy of misery.
Overall, I DO think I am better. Especially compared to this time last year, which I don't really want to even think back on. In a strange way, the fact I felt so dreadful a week ago, but bounced back and now feeling great has given me a lot of faith/hope. I am really, really hoping that as my own cycle calms down, that these dips will become less severe and further apart. And then, it would be a case of perhaps gradually reducing my oestrogen to see what suited me.
Thank you again for all your input, as ever you are really informative and helpful.
-
So glad you feel you are seeing an improvement - long may it last :)
Hurdity x
-
Hi grl
Just popping in on your thread here. Your symptoms sound very similar to mine. Inexplicable mood shifts after periods of relative stability. Also accompanied by physical symptoms, cramping, nausea etc. I am on zoladex and progynova and I definitely know that despite this fairly 'hefty' regime, my cycle is breaking through, to some extent. I suspect it's to do with being late peri (fluctuations get stronger according to STRAW meno phases) - and in my case, insufficient add back estrogen to work synergistically
with the zoladex to suppress the cycle. I am seeing a specialist today in Melbourne (female professor and psychiatrist who specialises in hormone responsive mood disorders including perimenopause.) I will let you know if she has any gems to share. I suspect there will be no silver bullets, but am hoping she can advise on optimal strategies to suppress the cycle. Frankie
-
This thread has been very helpful for me. I have had bad anxiety which i've struggled to articulate to myself, let alone others. I do now think it is meno related and that helps, even if I don't know what to do about it.
good luck all.
-
Thanks Frankie, I would be really interested to hear what your specialist has to say, please do keep me posted.
It's no wonder that many women get misdiagnosed with bi polar, when actually it is their hormones causing the problem.