Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: Lostit on March 12, 2017, 06:55:59 PM
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My worst symptom has been anxiety. It's the way it causes all manner of thoughts and panics and the way it affects your whole body to the point of not knowing what is a genuine health concern or what is 'just' anxiety! I don't understand why I could probably bungee jump but find it hard to go shopping at times. It's getting better, or at least I am better at dealing with it but takes up a great deal of my energy just pushing through it. My gp didn't even know it was a symptom of menopause 😣another dr at a menopause clinic suggested that it was probably not caused by the menopause as I am post menopause and I had very few symptoms in peri. I was wondering how it affects other ladies and how they deal with the medics who make them feel like hypochondriacs in need of psychiatric help😞
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I've developed social anxiety during menopause. I'm at least 2 years post meno and it's eased a tad since changing my hrt but I've never suffered this up until menopause and I've never told a gp as I wanted to explore an hrt that would cure it seeing as though lack of hotmones has caused it, however, I might talk with them for some extra help x
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Nothing is 'just' anxiety. It's a natural response of flight or face, caused by an adrenaline rush to fuel the parts that need to flee or fight ::). 4 me it's mis-intepreted which then = panic attacks :-\.
It can certainly be caused by the menopause, after all it's all hormonal. It's how to calm the sensations once they begin, I have to take an emergency pill. Others find yoga/swimming/cycling/walking/relaxation ........ we have threads on most things here - helpful.
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Hi yes I suffer with this and am 4-5 years post. Some days worse than others. I have to tell myself it's all part of my journey my body is going through with the menopause. You are not alone lots of ladies suffer this as plenty people will tell you take care xxx ;)
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I try not to take on too many commitments and never say 'yes' to anything after 5.00 p.m. as by then I feel better ::) - however, next morning my anxiety can surge out of control.
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Hello Lostit.
I am amazed that your GP didn't think that anxiety was a symptom of the menopause, it's top of the list in my trusty meno book! Plus the chapter on emotional symptoms mentions that the centres in the brain that control a sense of well-being, a positive state of mind and a feeling of control and tranquility are affected by the absence of oestrogen. It also states that sleep interrupted by night sweats leaves people irritable and anxious and of course people who are tired are often irritable and anxious! Yet again members of the medical profession have demonstrated an appalling lack of knowledge about this time in our lives, no wonder we struggle to be taken seriously.
As you may have gathered anxiety is my worst symptom as well and I'm struggling at the moment so you have my sympathy.
Sorry I can't be of more help but sending hugs and best wishes to you.
K.
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Anxiety has been my worst symptom through this meno journey I am post meno now and find its not as bad as in peri but never really leaves.I have just changed my HRT to tibelone and hoping it will help a bit as estrogen only dident help at all and I have never taken AD always been afraid to.
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Thank you for your replies. I didn't know anxiety was a meno symptom until it hit me. I was totally unprepared for it and I thought I was mad. It didn't help when my gp said "I don't know why you're getting worse" when looking back I now know my hormones had crashed out. He has never suggested that any of my symptoms are menopausal. This site has been a godsend. Why are GPS not required to read this site? As a good deal of their patients are women you might think it would be a good idea 😄Then they might have a few more light bulb moments and be more sympathetic to the menopausal patient. Hugs to everyone on the journey😍
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my worst symptom is anxiety. I can almost feel the hormones change and my mood and agitation change. despite my age(47 when first started peri) It just never occurred to me! Now I know, I've been actively discussing it with friends and colleagues and realise just how little people talk about it.
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I didn't even know the word peri menopause until I was diagnosed, you could've knocked me down with a feather when they said everything was due to peri x
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Hi Lostit
I really struggle with anxiety now (aged 49) more than I have at any other point in my life. After a lengthy absence from my work to deal with frightening issues with bleeding and hospital trips (total hospital phobic here) I found myself shattered beyond belief and was afraid to leave the house unaccompanied for some months. It's still a struggle despite CBT and Mindfulness one to one and group therapy and at best I push through the working day avoiding as many stressors as I can! But I know I'm not doing my job to my best ability and that really saddens me. I'm not on any HRT and have little to do with my GP surgery now as I know they'll push anti depressants given previous history of anxiety (which always coincided with physical medical problems and the fears I have about hospital appointments, etc.) Just keep hoping things will improve using the CBT and mindfulness practices and that this grotty phase will pass. I'm glad I found this website too as I don't feel so isolated with these issues now.
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Susannah - medication is designed to help! I fought against anti-depressants but once I realised that by taking a low maintenance dose we have a Life again ........ and ADs don't need to be taken for ever ........ you may find that you need medication along with the CBT. I used to dread going to Hospital appt.s until I worked in a Hospital ::). Some ADs can ease anxiety as can Beta-blockas, some use Rescue Remedy/yoga/swimming etc. to ease symptoms.
Has the bleeding been controlled?
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Thanks CKLD
The bleeding eventually stopped with 30 days of norethisterone 5mg x3 per day. It brought its downsides too but so glad to not bleed every time I stood up. Five weeks back at work and my bleeding pattern is acting up again after a few months of near normality. I was told my problems were likely down to a dysfunctional uterus which I think means hormonal imbalance/peri but I reckon stress has a huge amount to do with it too.
I'm not against medication although I did have a bad reaction to an AD I took years ago and can't remember its name so worry I'll have the same again - I've changed medical surgeries since then and
my notes seem to be incomplete. I also took BBs for over two years about a decade ago and I grew to depend on them although they only ever took the physical symptoms away not the anxious thoughts swirling around my brain.
I know we need to help ourselves as much as we can so will keep reading and trying to find something to help. Thanks 😊
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I thought that BBs are non-addictive :-\ ........ I feel slightly hung-over when I miss a dose/2 and they can be weaned off in about a week. I had a bad reaction to an AD - had to stop it after 3 days! then my GP found one that suits )phew(.
4 me anxiety is physical. First. Then the brain begins whirring .......... awful. Fortunately I have an emergency tablet to swallow, I know that it works when necessary so I don't need to take any more than one. It sorts the anxiety enough for me to relax.
Talk about Trial and Error though at a time of Life when we should be getting on!
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I have anxiety issues anyway, but am finding menopause is bringing new and lovely things! Some of the old ones have subsided, but that's partly because I think I have learnt to deal with them better/ accept them for what they are. But now there are new things- some very vivid anxiety dreams (including one where I was at work and my colleagues were being brutally honest about all my shortcomings and pretty nasty) so I woke up really grumpy with them all and it took me a couple of hours to stop being grumpy with them because of a dream!) I have had some panic attacks, and sudden overwhelming anxiety that can almost stop me in my tracks, and about things that would never have bothered me particularly, e.g. I cannot go through the airlock style door system at my gym, even the thought of going in brings tears!
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It's horrid how these anxiety which for years is background suddenly tries to take over >:(. I have vivid dreams due to being on various medications ::), we have a thread about that here somewhere: not me being one various medications but about dreams ;-). Some are illogical, long and leave me knackered! Browse round!
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dear all
it is both comforting and disappointing in equal measure to hear of your experiences. I have been suffering with increased anxiety for quite a few months and hadn't linked it to the menopause until the last few days. I have had a pre-disposition towards it for years and have been on long-term ADs as a maintenance dose, but this feels "different" somehow. I can't explain quite why beyond that it comes at unexpected irrational times e.g. when I am with a very close friend, when I am alone, whereas before it would be in relation to a known trigger.
I have changed HRT a few times due to tablets being withdrawn, side effects, etc. and am now taking 100mg Utrogestan every day and have just increased from 1mg to 2mg of Sandrena per day. I went to the GP who didn't mention meno and said I needed to up my ADs so I feel I am rattling - yet still feeling anxious!!
I have an appointment with the HRT clinic next week and am hoping for a miracle cure. wish me luck
errol
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Good luck Errol! :bighug:
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Grrrrr! It makes me so mad that the 'experts' don't acknowledge this!!!!!
I can tell you EXACTLY where this is coming from! As the production of estrogen moves away from the declining ovaries, it shifts to the adrenals (this is true of post meno too - more so in early post meno). Along with increased production of androstenedione which converts into estrogen etc, the adrenals will produce mighty bursts of norepinephrine and epinephrine (essentially adrenaline). This is what drives the 'fight or flight' response. Therefore, the body (and brain) will be on high alert and this causes the feeling of anxiety!
Add to this any 'outside' stressors (we all have many in our modern lives) and no wonder we feel totally frazzled with it all! Anyone who has already suffered with anxiety before menopause hits will feel this all the more.
It's not fair, but it's nature! This is why if you have had long term issues prior to meno. with anxiety that its a very good idea to seek help in addition to just HRT maybe in the form of CBT or medication. Medication is nothing to be ashamed or scared of, it can make a HUGE difference between being miserable or living your years as happily and comfortably as possible.
CLKD is a great example of how this helps - it enables her to have a life as she's told us so many times here on the forums (thank you for being so open, CLKD)!
I hope this info helps you all in some small way to not be so afraid of these strange and awful feelings that are going on in your bodies and minds. GP's don't 'get it' as they have very limited training in menopause and sometimes even mental health. Menopause Clinics in the main just seem to focus on hot flushes and bone and cardiac protection (in my experience anyway). Hopefully one day those that are supposed to be assisting us will take a more holistic view and acknowledge the real complex impact menopause has on
women. xxxxxx
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Here's a good article that explains the whole adrenal thing very clearly:
http://ndnr.com/womens-health/the-relationship-between-adrenal-function-and-menopausal-symptoms-2/
xxxxx
(So be sure to limit your stress and look after your adrenals)!
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Very good article Tempest,thanks. :thankyou:
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Here's a good article that it explains the whole adrenal thing very clearly:
http://ndnr.com/womens-health/the-relationship-between-adrenal-function-and-menopausal-symptoms-2/
xxxxx
(So be sure to limit your stress and look after your adrenals)!
Aha this is the link you meant !! Thank you Tempest for sharing this .
So informative, I've said all along that the major stresses I was going through immediately prior to my meno being diagnosed must've exhausted my adrenals ! I had months and months of heartache and worry which ended with me nearly collapsing and seeing a gp who said it was b12 and menopause. I bet it was predominantly adrenal fatigue. Then came the social anxiety. It all makes sense
Plus explains why I felt better self medicating with utrogestan those few months, as it was helping adrenals ?
Xx
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You're most welcome, ladies! :)
I'm sure this is why SNRI antidepressants work better for menopausal ladies as they are Selective Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors - SSRI's of course work primarily on Seratonin and as Serotonin is highly stimulating, some ladies find them a rough ride.
It's not for nothing that the SNRI Venlafaxine is proven superior for treating vasomotor symptoms etc. in ladies who cannot take HRT. :)
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You betcha, Annie! Ignoring the adrenal connection is down right foolish of the experts! My Gynaecologist has referred me to Endocrinology for this very reason (along with checking my thyroid function) as he totally 'gets' it and wants my adrenal function tested. I sincerely wish I had gone back to him in the first place! :o xxxxxx
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Hi Tempest I used venlafaxine in 2004 and it really helped anxiety. It's now going through the roof at certain times of the month plus a year of stress and a car accident and the last 4 months have been awful. Yet gp prescribed SSRI which can increase anxiety when the SNRI worked so well!!!
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Hi Tempest
That is spot on :) I just wish GP and other medics were aware of this.
I remember in my early/mid 40s getting these feeling come over me. They would start in the middle of my stomach and wash over me, then leave me shaking, always felt I was having a compulsive thought (like I was about to scream or do something silly) then in minutes it would go away. It would happen maybe once a month. At no point was I told it could be hormone related, in fact I thought I was about to suffer a break down :)
Thank you....... Wxx
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I know that feeling well too, Warwick! :o
Bless your heart, Jorainbow! Could you see your GP and request a change to Venlafaxine? As you did so well on it before it makes perfect sense and it IS indicated as very effective for both anxiety and hot flushes too (and of course can also be used in addition to any HRT for any ladies reading needing extra help)!
That's excellent, Sparkle! I am a great believer in breathing techniques, they really DO help so very much. I use very simple '3,3' breathing now which I learned recently - so simple but it decreases feelings of panic very effectively. Quite simply 3 breaths in through the nose for a count of 3, and 3 out through the mouth (also known as 'belly breathing'). It reduces hyperventilation and calms down hot flushes well. It also helps to calm the adrenals - there are articles available online about 'adrenal breathing' so this is well recognised.
Oh, and another symptom connected to the adrenals! The 'internal vibrations'. Lots of ladies talk about this, and this is also due to the release of stress hormones such as cortisol from the adrenals. It's no accident that cortisol levels rise during the menopause transition and into post menopause - which also ties into the whole morning anxiety thing as cortisol levels are highest between 6 and 9 am and then decrease as the day wears on. They are lowest around midnight and start rising again at 4 am. This is why a lot of ladies say they feel so much calmer in the evenings!
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...another one for whom anxiety and the jitters/dreads were one of the worst parts of this whole menopause thing. Being told to calm down, when there was no apparent 'reason' for my anxiety...wondering if I was going mad, waking in the morning terrified for no reason, the thought of the normal day ahead was just like a mountain I had to climb. Fearful of everything. Feeling like I might actually die. Constant churning stomach. My GP was also very dismissive, another one put me on anti anxiety meds, made me feel worse. I don't think anyone will ever get to the bottom of what goes on in a woman's body during the years of peri and menopause. We know our bodies the best, and I know this anxiety came out of nowhere, and had a physiological cause...i.e., too little or to many circulating hormones, all out of sync with each other. I'm only beginning to feel normal now, five years since peri started!
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Hi all
What a great forum this is. I've not been around for a while because I have been feeling better - and stupidly thought it was all over! Ha, ha! Even OH said that I'd been better lately. It's still a daily fight to appear normal and the anxiety is always bubbling just below the surface, but with the ADs (wow do I notice if I forget one), the meditation and the yoga I thought I was about as good as I was going to get.
Then a few things happened that made me realise that I must still be in the throes of peri/meno or whatever it is. First off I went for routine Dr appt feeling fine and then had a panic attack in waiting room (it was hot, crowded and long queue). Dr dismissed it as nothing... few days later got tiny barely there period. So, I concluded that was it, the hormones were still at it. Then in the last two weeks, first one of our dogs died (he was very old but we hadn't had him long and he was really attached to me), so that upset me and then the stupidest thing, I tripped over and landed heavily on my left side. Since then I've been aching all over, gets waves of nausea, feel panicky, pains in ribs, want to cry all the time. So, logical brain says it is just a little blip caused by sadness about dog, hormones are probably still raging and pain is bruising due to falling over and my crap posture. Anxiety brain has decided it is something sinister, pains are some insidious cancer, etc. It is just so b**** tiring thinking like this.
Anyway, sorry for the rant! Just wanted to say that I came on here and within minutes I'd found several posts all with the same problems - pains in ribs from computer, anxious minds, sadness, panic ... and that has really helped me. I won't stay away so long in future :)
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Wow lesley998 what you have described is me all over, this is scary stuff & a horrible experience for us all to go through, I agree the gp putting us all on anti anxiety drugs which make us worse should be reviewed by gps, I have never suffered anxiety or depression so thanks to my gp I am now scared by this experience along with my family watching me turn into some psycho woman they didon't recognise, exactly when anxiety comes out of nowhere it brings up all these awfulthought's, I hope I am not like this for 5 years or I will need locking up !!
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....I'm glad you can identify dee, and don't feel so alone with this horrible symptom! I didn't have the anxiety for five years btw. It was really bad for a few months, now I only get it now and again. I also get this really restless feeling with it, jittery, like I want to 'get outside' of myself. Akathisia or something, it's called. I wake up in the morning and have this urge to move my legs and my feet. Sounds so silly....urge to move my feet....but it's really horrible. Like an itch you can't reach.
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Yes lesley998 I can identify this is don't feel so alone knowing that lots of women suffer from this but I have had panic attacks almost everyday for 20 months thanks to the gp the antidepressants added to the panic attacks I was already getting, I am hoping myou anxiety will leave me soon :'( I get the jittery feeling like I need to get away from everyone & don't know what to do with myself, doesn't sound silly about the itch we all have weird things going on in guess on the horrid journey? Are or were you on hrt? And dI'd you take am AD?
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I just said to my husband I have this odd itchy tingly sensation in my head and body. I also get the leg thing. It's crap. On the plus side I won some money on the National!!!
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Hi ladies, I have realised that i am not going to get much help from the Dr's as anxiety doesn't seem to be on most of their radars as a symptom of menopause. I think that is why so many of us feel so low at this time
Maybe if when we first present with the anxiety and dread, the gp said oh it's menopause , it would be easier to deal with and nip it in the bud. Anxiety feeds anxiety and not knowing what is wrong with you feeds other health concerns.
I have found that magnesium, valerian, vitamin d have been beneficial. Also deep breathing when stressed. I can't stress how helpful exercise is and feel my best when I have been to the gym for an hour. Upwards and onwards
😉
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I couldn't agree more lostit. Also if you've suffered before I think it's easier as the obvious is oh it's just your anxiety back again though for me it feels very different. For me that awful spaced out feeling just makes it worse along with the insomnia. I was told HRT isn't proven to help with anxiety which caused a ripple of cross ladies on here when I posted!!! ;D
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Exercise does help, hugely! :)
In my opinion one of the ladies with the most balanced view of how to deal with the menopause is Dancinggirl. She always advocates brisk walking, balanced diet, mindfulness etc. and she should know - she had POF in her 30's and has been dealing with this a long time!
I always worry when ladies ignore this very sage advice and lob all their faith in HRT only - I've done this myself in the past! It didn't help my situation one bit - in fact, I just became more and more desperate and anxious as it wasn't fixing the things I wanted it to. It's not a miracle (in fact, it's a pretty crude attempt at replicating the wonderful and at some times dreadful ebb and flow of our natural hormones). Nothing will ever replace that, sadly! Some ladies get lucky and are happy with the results of the HRT, but quite a few here are left disillusioned and struggling when they realise it's limitations.
I also worry when ladies are told 'you need HRT, not antidepressants'. Fair enough - give HRT a good go but if you're starting to really slide and are falling into major depression you may well need medical help with this too. Anxiety and depression are common bedfellows - if it's disrupting your life, you need to seek help before it becomes too much.
I think EVERYTHING needs to be on the table to help us get through this very difficult time!
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:clapping:
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Thanks Tempest. I'm resisting sertraline at the moment as all I hear is how awful the start up effects are and I definitely don't want to feel worse even in the short term. As you said before I may go back and ask for venlafaxine as they worked last time but again I remember being like a zombie for a couple of weeks which when I'm due on holiday and then starting a new job i would rather not be!!!!! I am a bugger for ooh I'll meditate. Try it twice. Oh feel better now and it gets forgotten. I've been like that for years so I need to haul myself up by the hootenanis and focus on helping myself with this journey. Quick fix it isn't going to be 😉😉
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Tempest - I'm a bit confused about the relationship between oestrogen and your adrenals. Is it that once your adrenals start making oestrogen, this also causes them to make more adrenaline too?
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Hi, GRL!
It's when the production of estrogen (and other sex hormones) shifts primarily from the ovaries over to the
adrenals as the function of the ovaries declines. The wee article I linked to explains it pretty well. :)
This is why I firmly believe that we need to support our adrenal health during the 'transition' - this is what I also firmly believe defines the menopause, that whole 'shift', and why we feel so dreadful the more stress we have in our lives at this time and why we can't tolerate stimulants such as caffeine, alcohol and sugar as we once did (so many of us talk about getting 'the jitters' when we overindulge in any of these things).
I believe the 'anxiety' we feel is due to these adrenal surges, and the release of epinephrine (adrenaline) and cortisol (stress hormone) that inevitably accompanies this. We get the whole shebang and as we all know, these feelings are like a total nervous system overload!
If you think about it, if it were just about the ovaries then why would we ladies who have been oopherectomised have these symptoms of 'fluctuations' too if it wasn't about the adrenals? As I type, I sit here now having a mighty attack of the jitters and feelings of unease (I'm off HRT at the moment) - these come on totally randomly (im just calmly trying to watch the golf on tv at the moment), just as they do with you lovely ladies who still have your ovaries. I was chatting to another lady of 62 the other week who has also experienced the same after her oopherectomy when she was 42 (thankfully it has all now settled - she just has a very few 'warm moments' now very rarely).
I hope this explains - I really do think we need to give ourselves a whole lot of TLC during this time and to try to keep our stress down as much as possible. It's so important! Your adrenals will certainly thank you. Hugs! xxxxxx
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It all makes perfect sense and thank you for clarifying it so clearly :)
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That all makes sense Tempest, thanks for that.
there's nothing worse than feeling that fight or flight adrenaline rush, but feeling that it's your own body you have to get away from. Don't know if that makes sense, but that's the way I feel sometimes.
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Thank you tempest, it does make sense.
If I recall your adrenal glands are located just below your kidneys? And, when I get the anxious dreads I get this nasty prickly (almost like pins and needles) tingling, running from inside my buttock muscles and down the backs of my legs.
I have experienced this since being a girl, when I'm feeling stressed, or nervous about something. I wonder if the specific location of these 'anxiety prickles' is actually caused by the physical release of adrenaline from my adrenal glands (which are situated just above your bum)?