Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: jessieblue on March 02, 2017, 09:37:25 AM
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Morning lovely ladies. Does anyone have experience with rectocele? I have had one for some years, Im not 100% sure I dont have cystocele as have had urinary symptoms on and off but that hasnt yet been mentioned. The rectocele isnt too bad but I do have to use some pressure underneat to have BM and I get piles and little tears sometimes if things arent as easy as they could be if you know what I mean. I can sometimes feel the bulge just inside my vagina. I dont want surgery until its really necessary so wondered what you do to help. Kegel exercises? pelvic toners? It has worried me a lot because when I get a tear or piles I get some bleeding but have seen 4 doctors about it recently and all say its a fissure and no need to do any further investigations. My health anxiety doesnt like anything to be wrong or to see blood anywhere! So it all makes me a little anxious. Be nice to share with others with similar experience. Am seeing a gyn specialist soon for all things meno so will be able to ask about this too. Thanks in advance.
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YEs, and reading about your manual pressure during a BM just convinced me I still have mine
At 23 I developed cystocele, rectocele and uterine prolapse all caused at the stillbirth of my 2nd baby
I had the electric shock treatment, the ring that's inserted but nothing worked so after I completed my family I had a hysterectomy at 32 but opted out of the repair. I've been fine for years (apart from bladder urge/stress incontinence) but since meno I have the bowel issues you describe
But I'll carry on as I am until I ever get to the point it's really affecting my life x
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Hi Annie Im so sorry to hear of your stillbirth and the problems caused. I had two difficult natural births. I dont think that helped my situation down below. I also am opting out of surgery until such time that I cannot cope. Its a nuissance more than anything I guess. Do you have pain with yours? Or just the mechanical malfunction? I havent tried anything apart from pelvic floor exercises which I guess help a bit when I do them regularly. Was considering the kegel toner maybe. The joys of being a woman.......
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Hi - before surgery they normally expect you to have tried exercises (gynae physiotherapists help here) and to sort out any constipation problems so that you get softer stools (movicol helps here).
I had surgery, but it has sadly not sorted the bowel problem (was told it probably wouldn't but it has sorted the childbirth injuries out :) )
Some people get referred to a colorectal surgeon and for defaecating pictograms first (the fill you bowel with gel and x-ray it) which sounds very :-[ but can give lots of useful extra information. I went straight down the urogynae surgery route and think in hindsight it would have been a good idea.
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Aw thank you. It was very difficult at the time but it was 27 years ago although saying that if I relive the memory and imagine her here now I can still cry
The pain I get is because I think where the route for the faeces to travel isn't straight forward It maybe stays there longer than It would if I didn't have a prolapse ? I may be wrong, just summizing readily. If it's difficult I suffer anal fissures and other pain is IBS when it flares up
Again not sure if it's because of prolapse but very often I don't know I need to go, but I can stand up and suddenly the feeling will come . Other times I'll go pee and then feel I need BM. Very odd x
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Yes I get that completely Annie......I often feel something is there then when i go it cannot come out because its in "the little pocket" Everything has to be timed perfectly....like at exactly the right time when I get the urge and if I wait too long it will go off and then just get all clogged up. If I go too soon and strain at all I will cause piles and fissures to pop open. I have to push in exactly the right place and with perfect timing to get things to flow out nicely........urgh! TMI sorry. Lol. If I have a good BM I can tell you, I have my own little celebration because some of them can be a proper mission. It really does need to be kept soft so I take dulcoease if I get any constipation because that when I cause the tears and piles which are bloody painful! I cannot remember a time when I had a nortmal bottom!
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We have the exact same symptoms !!!
Yes I have my perfect area on right bum cheek to push and prod lol
2 years ago I had faecal impaction, the pain was unreal but of course I didn't realise I was constipated until it was too late then I googled manual evacuation and it took hours to finally fully empty.
Yes I celebrate too! OH always tells me well done lol when it's over with ! X
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Yes, I had a rectocele and a repair, along with a hysterectomy. However, the repair hasn't helped with the BMs and a lot of the problems I experience have been described here, including manually helping and having altered sensations or none at all that I need a BM or when I have finished.
After my op follow up, I was referred for a defaecating pictogram (MRI, only on pelvic floor). This did not show anything wrong, other than not being able to expel the gel they put in, which was noted. I have been referred for physiotherapy, which I have had to postpone since November as I have been ill. I have an appointment in a couple of weeks. I can let you know about the appointment if you are interested. This is not the usual pelvic floor physiotherapy, different speciality.
It can be distressing, inconvenient and uncomfortable and not something easy to talk about. BMs take a while, not so bad at home, not very funny out and about, and distressing when in hospital in a ward where there wasn't enough toilet facilities. I have IBS, with a tendency to constipation, but manage to keep my stools soft most of the time, but it doesn't stop this difficulty.
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We camp a lot and that stresses me having to use the campsite loos
So far I've managed ok with my symptoms, it's just become a way of life now x
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I sympathise totally Juju and sorry to hear you have been unwell and hospitalised. My worst nightmare being in hospital with all my weird little problems. As you say so much easier to manage at home. I have my own little rituals to help things go smoothly. Would be great if you could let me know how the physio goes. I had pelvic floor physio but didnt find it too useful. I already knew the exercises and have got some dvds too. I would be interested to hear what goes on in these sessions and how helpful they are. I wish you the best of luck. I hope you get some relief.
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The physio isn't normal pelvic floor exercises. I will be seeing a physiotherapist who specialises in the backend for want of a better description. I regularly do the prescribed exercises for my pelvic floor before and after my hysterectomy. All good fun! I'll let you know how it goes. I had to spend a week in hospital in November and wasn't happy to find myself in the ward I had spent a weekend in a couple of years before. ( got myself discharged early as I knew I was going to have problems). But this time I was moved elsewhere to a 2 bed room with a loo. Relief!
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Urgh! Just the thought of hospitals gives me the willies!
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I have a grade one or two rectocele and cystocele. I've had a couple differing opinions but regardless they seem relatively stable now after going on estrogen. I'm trying to avoid surgery too.
There's an online program for pelvic organ prolapse called Hab-it that comes with good reviews and recommendations and was developed by a physical therapist with a prolapse herself. I've thought about trying it but with one thing and another I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I'm in the U.S. so actually getting coverage to go to a physical therapist in person is out of the question. I would definitely do it if I had the option.
Some women on the prolapse forum I used to visit would discuss cold laser treatment as helpful but that's out of my budget too. I'm just crossing my fingers that the estrogen will keep whatever celes I have from getting worse.
I no longer leak any significant amount of urine after starting estrogen but I can still feel the rectocele and some days it's worse than others.
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I was diagnosed with a rectocele in 2003 and was offered surgery. As I'd never had an operation and was scared, I asked to delay it so I could try exercising instead. After a miserable year of not only pooing problems, but everything bulging out of my vagina when I went to wash after sex, I decided to bite the bullet and have the op. I'm so glad I did (even though I was terrified and convinced I'd die under anaesthetic etc etc - anxiety issues, can you tell lol) and everything is much better now although I do need to drink more as constipation can put stress on the area.
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The best result I had was 'cultivating a daily habit' with the help of gycerin suppositories, improving my gut biome with acidophilus and suitable food. This set the scene, although I was terribly reliant on the suppositories and movicol.
Then a daily kiwi fruit for breakfast.
It was wonderful! Like I had never had a problem. The Kiwi gives enough softness, and enough 'oomph' combined to feel normal. Never needed a laxative and everything worked without help ;)
Unfortunately I fell of the wagon, because I can't stand kiwis ::) They can be really horrible. :'( (eye watering) But I am sure movicol messes up one's natural bacteria etc - there was such a difference as soon as I went back to it.
I am trying to have another go. May cut nasty little green things up into little pieces and put sugar on. ;)
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I had to have prunes after my faecal impaction as the movicol landed me in resus due to anaphylaxis. Kiwi does the same, majorly allergic
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Prunes(yuck) help a bit. I believe I am allergic to kiwi fruit too. I used to be able to eat them, but had a frightening reaction to them years ago, where my face and throat started swelling. I researched this and read that kiwi fruits are a common allergen and that I shouldn't experiment again as I could have a full on anaphylactic reaction. Movicol and other laxatives render me incontinent......very urgent! Even half a sachet! Nor do they solve anything long term. I take fibogel and include ground linseed/flaxseed in my diet everyday. Plus not becoming dehydrated. I take water with me when I go out. I try to eat plenty of veg and some fruit. This helps to keep stools soft, but doesn't prevent incomplete evacuation. I'm hoping physiotherapy will be the answer.
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The best thing I've ever noticed for good BM is a magnesium supplement each day. Now I'm on Tibolone that seems to be good too
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Unfortunately, if I eat high fibre everything, including chia seeds and linseeds, my bowels grind to a halt within 2 days, no matter how much I drink. Fybogel just adds extra fibre which is not any help. Even with prunes every morning. If I try and control it by diet, then everything I put in my mouth has to have an effect. You can go off food. It is pretty dismal. :(
I have tried magnesium, but I just end up with a load of squish that does not come out and use half a roll of toilet paper dealing with the consequences.
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The best thing I found was switching to a vegetarian diet, everything moves perfectly then. If I give into temptation and have some meat then I get really constipated again.
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Fiber stops me up too. Weird :-\
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Wheat fibre eg bran can be a problem for many people.
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Interesting to hear of others' experiences with this difficult-to-discuss subject. Suspect I may have a rectocele, things have definitely changed/distorted in that area - have had lifelong poor elimination, pelvic floor muscles are shot - unfortunately nothing really works for a lazy bowel (hereditary) - all the recommended stuff like flaxseeds, prunes, high fibre etc have the opposite effect.
SJ, I've never heard of splinting (yoiks, sounds scary) off to research - I am pretty squeamish though ...
Does anybody have experience of using enemas? - thinking of buying a kit for those very difficult times when even the glycerin suppositories won't shift things.
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I first came across splinting online whilst desperately trying to find out why my painful "pushing" was leading to nothing> I hadnt been diagnosed at that point even though I was seeing the doctor about bladder problems heavy and irregular bleeding and awful piles and fissures that I was causing in my vain attempts to empty my bowels! No one even examined me. Grrrrr. So I finally stumbled upon a site where someone described pushing on the perineum whilst going. So I was eager to give it a try. The next time I got the urge, I got myself real comfy like the lady said....pants and jeans right off and got a little wad of toilet paper and gently pressud upwards as I did the deed. Now bear in mind I had just had about 6 months of very very painful bowel movements with lots of bleeding from both piles and fissures. |Sometimes I would leave the bathroom wondering where on earth the poo had gone as it just seemed to disappear inside me somewhere! On this occasion with one firm upward press the floodgates opened and the most exquisite feeling of relief was upon me! I literally floated out of that bathroom and thanked the lord because I finally knew what was wrong with me and that I could do something to help myself. Since then, its been ok mostly. Sometimes it doesnt all go to plan. Ikind of need everything to be in place at just the right moment otherwise I can get some unfinished problems. If i get a bit constipated it can still be a struggle. So it all had to ne managed with pinpoint accuracy. Its interesting you mention the splinting with a finger inside the vagina. I tried this once or twice and I must say I did find it a bit invasive for my liking and it didnt quite hit the spot.....Mine deffo comes down right in the middle of my perinium and it needs a good old shove from there. Such a joy. One should never underestimate either bad sex or a good sh*t! :D
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I was told to hold under carriage firmly whilst having BM after my first baby
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Hello everyone. I've had a read through this stream a few times, and would like to thank you all for the information. I have just got my surgery date through for prolapse repair. I have been really struggling with the loo for some time. I hope in the meantime the struggling will be less using your information! :) wishing you all well on your ongoing struggles. Thanks again x
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The daft thing is I feel it's my fault that I'm experiencing difficulties! Logically, it's not surprising. I had 2 large babies, very slim hips and abdomen muscles that gave up the ghost and required surgery, plus IBS. So my pelvic floor did pretty well until I became post menopausal.
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I am fairly petite and had a rapid first delivery and twins the second time round and the most appalling constipation with all my pregnancies that I got no help for. With the twin pregnancy, I am sure my intestines were rather squashed and I suffered tummy bugs picked up from toddler groups as well the constipation, sometimes all at the same time :D
With the kiwi fruit - I have been getting 'bubbles' on my tonsils all week, so think I may have to join the 'allergic club' ???
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People commented I didn't look pregnant from behind, but enormous from the front. At one clinic, the midwife started telling me off for eating too much, as I had put on so much weight, then looked at my skinny legs, arms and bum and apologised and announced it was all baby. It was! A great, big, whopping one! I had a lot of constipation too. It was very painful. No wonder our pelvic floors have been challenged! How much was the combined weight of your twins? Having babies is a natural process, but so is the collateral damage.
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I never looked pregnant from behind. I only ever gained the pregnancy weight and lost it all after, in fact after my 4th birth I was back in my pre pregnancy jeans in the first week. Midwives would always comment how quick the uterus slipped back into pelvis after (in hindsight it's probably because of the prolapse lol)
I'm naturally a small frame and was always told (because each pregnancy varied between 10-24lb weight gain) that I'd have tiddlers apart from 4th pregnancy where the head engaged very early, afterwards midwife said that gave her the indication he'd be big for me
I had 8lb 2oz
2nd baby no weight (lost her)
3rd baby 5 weeks early 5lb 12.5oz
4th baby 9lb 4.5oz
Not massive by most ladies but midwives were always shocked
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Wow! You ladies amaze me! I have never had children through choice, and I have massive respect for all mothers, I don't know how you do it! I feel a bit badly done to as not having had children and ending up with a moderate rectocele and possible cycstocele after having a hysterectomy seems a bit unfair. But hey, need to get sorted now, it's been a long hard journey for me. X
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Aw Doolou do you mean you've suffered your prolapses BECAUSE of your hysterectomy ?
Mine weren't caused by pregnancies, it was a badly managed stillbirth that caused mine :-( x
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Hi Annie0710, yes I'm afraid so. I didn't have that problem before my hysterectomy just over a year ago. My op was supposed to change my life for the better, no more endo pain. It's been one failing after another which has been a nightmare if I'm honest. Don't know what I'd have done without my other half, amazing friends and the information and support on here. It took a private appointment, 10 months post op for someone to say, oh yes you have got a problem! Everyone in between kept saying everything is where it should be! I am forever hopeful on my good days that I will one day resemble something like the old me again. Thanks Annie xx
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That's so sad Doolou, I hope you get things sorted and start to feel better x
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Bless you Annie, thank you xx
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What a shame Doolou. Unfortunately prolapse of the back and front walls are not uncommon after hysterectomy, which is why I was offered pelvic floor physiotherapy and urged to continue the exercises forever. Not been easy while suffering from breathing difficulties! You'd think that lying down, sitting or standing would require much in the way of breathing, but I found it does! Also difficult if unable to evacuate the bowels. But I manage the rest of the time.
My 1st was 81/2 lbs and the 2nd, 10lbs.
DH was keen for a third, but I did my sums. Another 11/2 lbs would make 11lbs! Also my abdomen muscles were shot and I had a mothers apron, so would have required support. So I said absolutely no! I shall forever be grateful to the gynaecologist who did the research to sort out the appropriate help, so that I didn't have to live with the disfigurement and discomfort for the rest of my life.
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Hi Annie0710, yes I'm afraid so. I didn't have that problem before my hysterectomy just over a year ago. My op was supposed to change my life for the better, no more endo pain. It's been one failing after another which has been a nightmare if I'm honest. Don't know what I'd have done without my other half, amazing friends and the information and support on here. It took a private appointment, 10 months post op for someone to say, oh yes you have got a problem! Everyone in between kept saying everything is where it should be! I am forever hopeful on my good days that I will one day resemble something like the old me again. Thanks Annie xx
Sorry to hear that you have this now doolou but it is really common after hysterectomy and your surgeon should have explained that this might happen. Like Ju Ju I have been given exercises to do as my hysterectomy was due to womb and bladder prolapse which shows that my tissues are already weak. I hope your surgery goes well - sorry that it took so long to identify the problem though.
Taz x
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Thank you Taz and Juju. I did the pelvic floor exercises for sometime post op, but think that I have adhesions too, so that seemed to make me more uncomfortable. Although I haven't been able to do the classes I used to love at the gym, I have carried on with yoga/pilates and body balance twice a week and automatically hold myself when lifting etc. You would think in this day and age of medical advances that they would be able to come up with something that would help to keep things I place.......like a balloon to keep things where they were before the op? Lol. Anyway, I am trying to be positive that the 2 surgeons who are going to do my op this time can improve things so I can be something like the woman I used to be. Bless you both xx
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All I can say is......I love all you amazing warrior women! We have a lot of crap to deal with us girls, whether mothers or not. Our plumming is a challenge at the best of times. Thank you all for taking part in this discussion. You make me feel humble and proud. We are fighters and although I currently feel on my knees, I know I am not alone and I will fight on with the rest of you for answers and comfort. I dreaded getting to this time in my life.....middle age....post meno....urgh. It all sounds pretty depressing, but actually, us women are pretty damn cool! xx
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Aw Jessieblue
I feel better after this discussion that I'm not alone , onwards and upwards or in our cases, up, down along up out lol x
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I've been for my physiotherapy appointment. I was supposed to go last November after waiting months, but I was too ill to attend. Unfortunately, the physiotherapist couldn't find my notes and was very embarrassed. She had been told I was a returning patient, which I was not, though I had explained what had gone on to the receptionist. She thought they had discharged me and was surprised I had got an appointment, but eventually found my notes. Needless to say, there wasn't much of my 1/2 hour appointment time left. She tried to pack in as much info as possible, but not sure how much I took in with my meno brain!
*I was told that I should have a low fibre diet as opposed to the high fibre diet I have been advised up to now, as this is the cause of uncontrollable wind.
*I have to drink 2 litres of water and fruit/ herbal teas a day.
*I have to investigate the FODMAPS diet.
*Keep a food diary.
*Start the day with a large breakfast, (eat like a king), less at lunch time, (eat like a prince) and a small meal at dinner time in the evening, (eat like a pauper).
*I have to keep a food diary. (That will stop me eating naughty stuff!)
*She showed me how to sit in a squatting position to do a BM and gave me info on the Squattie Potty, which I ordered and arrived this morning (ordered yesterday on Amazon!)
*I have to try to retrain my bowels by sitting on the loo every morning whether I need to go or not for no longer than 10 minutes.
*I have to use glycerin pessaries to assist BMs if I have difficulty in evacuating.
* Avoid manual assistance as this can damage the sphincter muscle.
I was not examined and not given exercises this time. I have my next appointment in 8 weeks time. Lots of research to do and stuff to read. I'll let you know how I get on. And I'm impressed how much I have taken in! Perhaps my memory isn't so bad after all. It's helped to write it down.
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If it helps, I'll do it! With incomplete evacuation, it takes longer than 10 minutes. Just tried out the Squattie potty, which puts your feet in the right position and seems rather higher up for my feet. 10 minutes might be too long! Think I may have got the wrong one. Just relooked on Amazon and I didn't realise you can get different heights. Of course I got the one that is too high didn't I!
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Hi Juju. I had a physio appointment last year when they suspected I had a slight cycstocele. She advised increasing fibre, PF exercises religiously, fluid increase and 5 minutes on the loo. Mentioned raising knees but didn't suggest the squatty potty. I have also just invested in one though, mine arrived today, so at least we will have something more substantial to raise our feet on! The position definitely helps I found anyway. It's just a shame you have to be in these circumstances before you find out all this information. I hope you're physio's advice helps you x
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Hi doolou, this physio is a different specialism from the normal pelvic floor physio, which I had following my hysterectomy. I do pelvic floor exercises regularly.The gynaecologist/surgeon referred me due to the difficulties I have been having for several years. It was thought it was caused by a rectocele, but I guess that was just another symptom. Previous to that it was put down to IBS, even by the bowel consultant. The advice on fibre was against everything I have been told up to now, but as no one has tried to help before, I'm going to try and follow all advice even if it doesn't make sense! I do know this physio is held in great esteem and she is overworked as there are not many physiotherapists who specialise in this area....bums!
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Morning ladies. Has anyone on here had a rectocele and possible cycstocele repair operation please? Im trying to get information together for my forthcoming operation. Thanks in advance x
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I had a rectocele repair op 14 months ago. They wouldn't do the cycstocele at the same time, which was not as bad and I hope to prevent the need by doing pelvic floor exercises regularly. The surgeon made the decision to carry out a hysterectomy at the same time, for which I gave prior permission. If there is anything I can help with, ask here or pm.
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I've had a hysterectomy due to prolapse plus a cystocele repair.
Taz x
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Thank you Juju and Taz2. They think I have a moderate rectocele, which I definitely know I have, a suspected moderate cycstocele, but I'm not so sure about that, possible adhesions and possible further endo which I am having sorted out on 6th April. As my hysterectomy left me in this situation, I am very nervous about this forthcoming op. Scared of ending up worse off than I am now. Any tips, information etc., would be greatly appreciated. Is the recovery much the same as my hysterectomy? How did they do yours? They said that they are looking to start off laparascopically and take it from there. I am hoping to have a clinic appointment before the operation. Thanks in advance x
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Hi doolou,
I had mine done vaginally. I still have bowel evacuation problems, so repairing the back wall hasn't sorted the problem, but probably wasn't the cause of the problem in the first place. I healed well from the op, following instructions. Taz sent me information on what I should and shouldn't do in the weeks following the op, which were more detailed and clearer than the info given to me in the hospital. I was very nervous before my op, but that's natural. I only needed to stay in hospital one night. The requirement for discharge was to do 3 wees after the catheter was removed, which I managed to do with flying colours! I had a pre op appointment with a nurse a few days before my op. She was able to answer my questions.
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I had that 4 years ago, with the same result. I did get my perineum back though 8)
I had similar info from the physio. I was told to try soluble fibre, rather than the branny sort which goes like dry potting compost when you get slow transit. Also, I was told to look at pelvic floor dysfunction and pelvic floor relaxation (sniff drop flop? ??? ), in addition to the usual pelvic floor exercises.
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Thank you so much to both of you for taking the time to reply, it's much appreciated. I have looked for detailed recovery information on line, but all appears rather vague? Much like my hysterectomy information! You wouldn't have a link available would you please Juju? I would one day like to get back to something like the woman I used to be 14 months ago, and be able to do more than a couple of hours gardening etc. without being in severe discomfort, and also get back to the gym doing combat and body pump. Thanks again x
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Just don't have mesh under any circumstances.
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Is this info from Michelle Kenway any use https://www.pelvicexercises.com.au/exercises-for-women/
I'm not sure about returning to body pump to be honest but you will need to ask your consultant and also get some advice from your instructor. If you have suffered previous prolapses then there is a high chance that you will go on to have further ones - not all women do of course - but you really do have to be careful with lifting and certain postures.
Taz x :-\
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Hi Maryjane and Taz2, I've read about the mesh, and really wouldn't want that, am hoping to have a clinic appointment before my operation to find out what they are thinking of doing. Thank you for the link, that has reminded me of the do's and don'ts. I already have to modify yoga and pilates. I haven't ever gone back to the classes I used to do, as I think I would get so frustrated and upset, and end up doing more than I should. Sort of remind me of how much my life has had to change? That sounds a bit dramatic doesn't it, but that sadly is how it feels. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond and share your knowledge. Thank you again x