Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Butterfly22 on February 21, 2017, 09:17:27 AM
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Hello all,
A few ladies will remember me asking advice few years back.
Long story short I had endrometrosis luckily had my daughter at 25 but went straight into the menopause and got ME.
I was put on nouvelle for 10 years but was discontinued so spent another four yrs trying to find another that did not make me tired, bring me out in acne, made me feel dreadful. (With ME you get chemical sensitivity to make things harder)
After trying every HRT out there (almost) I seemed to settle on premique for last couple of years or less.
The last year been changing my antidepressants as have depression to and only last month said at the doctors we got there settled on HRT and antidepressants.
Then a call of the Doctor yesterday has left me devastated. I no that's a harsh word but last few years I've been existing not living and finally thought I could see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Premique is being discontinued and I feel back to square one. I'm so upset.
Don't have anyone two talk to about it and just want to cry.
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Hello lila22.
I'm so sorry that you've had this news. I am not one of the experts but there are many ladies here who can advise you about HRT so all is not lost. I just wanted to send hugs and wish you well.
Take care and keep posting.
K.
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Another sympathetic non-expert here. Could you say what you've tried over the years as there are some really knowledgeable types on here who might be able to point you in the direction of options to get around the chemical problems?
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All is not lost! You can get the progesterone in Premique separately (Provera) and you could try a patch or gel for the estrogen bit. Have a good look at the list of hrts available so you can discuss with your doc for your next prescription.
Good luck
Bramble
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Another sympathetic non-expert here. Could you say what you've tried over the years as there are some really knowledgeable types on here who might be able to point you in the direction of options to get around the chemical problems?
Hi thanks also good to no others are here xx
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All is not lost! You can get the progesterone in Premique separately (Provera) and you could try a patch or gel for the estrogen bit. Have a good look at the list of hrts available so you can discuss with your doc for your next prescription.
Good luck
Bramble
I may try the gel again, if not remember was on two pumps but did not stop the night sweats. Plus felt wiped.
I just hope I can find something quick may be a different now I'm on different antidepressants.
Thank you for replying xx
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Hi there Lil22
I see you've just changed from lila22 and I do remember you under that name a few years ago and your story about early menopause and struggles to find the right HRT.
Sorry to hear you are feeling miserable.
I can't seem to find information that Premique has been discontinued on the medical websites so can't quite understand about this and why it is not available although the NHS list for Dumfries and Galloway says it has been. http://www.dgprescribingmatters.co.uk/documents/Manufacturing%20%2030th%20January%202017_1.pdf The manufacturer's info must be out of date :-\ However as ancient runner says the constituents are available separately.
You can get different does of Premarin http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/treatafter.php and as bramble says you xan get the same progestogen as Provera which is MPA http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/to_progestogens.php . Therefore if you are happy on this combo - then you can still have it - as long as Premarin hasn't been discontinued as well? Your doc should have been able to find this information!
I know I have spoken to you at length before but have you thought of having a cycle? The continuous progestogen may well be part of the problem - it is a sedative and a depressive and especially the synthetic ones can have low grade side effects.
Hope this helps and that you sort it all out soon :bighug:
Hurdity x
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As Bramble and Hurdity have said both of the components of premique are available separately as premarin and provera so you can still be on what you have found works for you ;)
Here's hoping that this will do the trick.
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As Bramble and Hurdity have said both of the components of premique are available separately as premarin and provera so you can still be on what you have found works for you ;)
Here's hoping that this will do the trick.
s
Hi thank you for your reply, I've kept pages of notes from all the ones I've tried and looking on it they both gave me acne which is weird if the same tablet.
I'll ke p doing research as app at doctors not till next week,
Thank you xx
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How long ago was it that you took them separately ? If it was awhile ago maybe you had issues then but not now ( 're premique ) which seems to suit you,if you see what I mean. I've perhaps not put it very well ;D
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Probably three years ago I'd say, on premique I still sweat at night but not bad and my skin gets very dry (I'm normally really oily) so I'm thinking do I say right maybe I need to try a different one and embrace the change 😳 I'm trying to be positive 😂 Xxx
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Hi again Lil22 - since I started replying on this thread I thought I would stick to it rather than the other one. Yes you could try a different one if you still sweat on Premique - but also depends what dose you were on? Premarin comes in three strengths although the high dose I understand is quite strong. You should be able to find a dose of HRT that eliminates your sweats.
I've just realised that you mentioned endometriosis in your first post here so it may well be that cyclical HRT ( ie one that gives a bleed) may not be suitable - depending on whether you had adhesions (deposits?) and where they were? If they were outside the womb then you have to take continuous combined HRT in order to stop them growing - this is what it says on this website about endometriosis. However I presume your consultant would have advised what was OK to take?
Endometriosis
There is a small risk of reactivation of endometriosis with HRT use and any recurrence of symptoms should be reported. If a hysterectomy has been performed for endometriosis, the choice of HRT use thereafter should be influenced by the extent of endometriosis at the time of the operation. Since hysterectomy often causes a premature menopause, it is often advised to take HRT until the average age of the menopause; 51 years. HRT after hysterectomy usually consists of estrogen only. However, in the presence of endometriosis, estrogen may cause stimulation of residual deposits and consideration should be given to using continuous combined (estrogen plus daily progestogen) therapy, or tibolone, though little research has been done on the effect of different types and duration of therapy. Medical treatment of endometriosis often involves ovarian suppression which, along with ovarian removal, may increase the risk of osteoporosis.
Your ME may in fact be mainly due to insufficient hormones if it started when your menopause started? I think I mentioned this a few years ago? Also I presume you have had thyroid tests etc? These do need to be repeated every few years too.
I do hope you manage to get a suitable treatment sorted that you can settle on for the next few years.
Hurdity x
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Hi again Lil22 - since I started replying on this thread I thought I would stick to it rather than the other one. Yes you could try a different one if you still sweat on Premique - but also depends what dose you were on? Premarin comes in three strengths although the high dose I understand is quite strong. You should be able to find a dose of HRT that eliminates your sweats.
I've just realised that you mentioned endometriosis in your first post here so it may well be that cyclical HRT ( ie one that gives a bleed) may not be suitable - depending on whether you had adhesions (deposits?) and where they were? If they were outside the womb then you have to take continuous combined HRT in order to stop them growing - this is what it says on this website about endometriosis. However I presume your consultant would have advised what was OK to take?
Endometriosis
There is a small risk of reactivation of endometriosis with HRT use and any recurrence of symptoms should be reported. If a hysterectomy has been performed for endometriosis, the choice of HRT use thereafter should be influenced by the extent of endometriosis at the time of the operation. Since hysterectomy often causes a premature menopause, it is often advised to take HRT until the average age of the menopause; 51 years. HRT after hysterectomy usually consists of estrogen only. However, in the presence of endometriosis, estrogen may cause stimulation of residual deposits and consideration should be given to using continuous combined (estrogen plus daily progestogen) therapy, or tibolone, though little research has been done on the effect of different types and duration of therapy. Medical treatment of endometriosis often involves ovarian suppression which, along with ovarian removal, may increase the risk of osteoporosis.
Your ME may in fact be mainly due to insufficient hormones if it started when your menopause started? I think I mentioned this a few years ago? Also I presume you have had thyroid tests etc? These do need to be repeated every few years too.
I do hope you manage to get a suitable treatment sorted that you can settle on for the next few years.
Hurdity x
Hi Hurdity
Sorry for all the confusion think I have confused it all.
Now my endrometrosis was before I had my daughter at 25 as soon as I had my daughter went into the menopause and ME. My doctor never mentions my endrometrosis when I had the laporscopy I think it was outside I can't remember.
I was under the hospital but moved to the country five yrs ago and my doctor said no need to refere me somewhere she also said no need for bones measured now to.
I really do get all the info off her ect as I really don't think she has a clue.
Sorry about the confusion to xx
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Hi
Same here! Devastated re Premique going- am trying kliofem (one week in and not doing great, but am guessing I'm adjusting) then if I don't settle, will go for Premarin and provera- I checked with Pfizer- they said Premarin continuing! However, my chemist said Premarin on ration supply do not sure what's going on there. Low dose premique available, but that doesn't help us! Can see this is going to be a journey! Be good to see what works for you!
SQ xx
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Hi
I no, I've been through this once as I was on nuvelle for ten years and that was stopped so spent three years on every HRT possible and finally settled on premique.
Is the one your on in the blue wheel?
Yes my other concern was what if the others which are the same stopped, I also have on my notes they brought me out in acne which is strange of the same.
I'm thinking of the gel again, I'm on a different antidepressant this time so I'm hoping may work differnt.
Will be good if we keep in touch, I hope you can get settled on it.
And yes the low dose no good for me either xxxx
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Hi again Lil22
If endometriosis is not a problem outside the uterus then as we have advised then a cyclical HRT might well be better for you and avoid having to take progestogen all the time - but you would get a withdrawal bleed. See what has been suggested - by several of us on here - and Dancinggirl made some detailed suggestions too on your other thread.
I would insist on having a scan if you haven't had one in view of having had menopause at such a young age in your 20's - you should surely have had a regular monitoring - although I don't know the protocols? I see from a quick look at the Clinical Guidance that a risk factor for fractures (and therefore a DEXA scan) is untreated premature menopause - and of course yours has been treated, but in view of the fact that it was so early I would have thought women such as yourself might be an exception? Are you able to pursue this?
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity
I've got a few things to ask the doctor I'll see what she says, I'll ask for thyroid checked to.
I was going to see a doctor at the clinic in Newcastle but moved to the county and my doctor things she can just help me.
Thank you for all the advice I feel I've a few options, is it the femoston that would give me a bleed? Xx
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Hi lil22
Was wondering how you are doing? I did a bit of research and spoke with GP who said I can get Premarin and provera 5mg if I don't settle- after a really first week on kliofem- it's the one in wheel- my second week been much better. Meno symptoms falling away and sleep been quite good! I decided to go the three months before switching. Like you, I was beside myself re premique going but am bit nervous about relying on Premarin as it's made by same company. They've discontinued prem pak etc and had supply probs with low dose premique so... anyway, my view is how will I know unless I try- it might suit me better in long run?? I was previously keen to try a more bioidentical estrogen so trying to embrace this- first week was awful felt myself slide back and was terrified I'd go back to horrendous symptoms I had at start but amazingly my body seems to be adjusting. Like you, I was surviving not living and the premique made life manageable but I was never feeling totally normal. I'd suffered from bone crushing tiredness and heavy leaden feeling in legs etc premique significantly reduced this but it never completely went. Here's the thing, with the kliofem it's gone this week- been peeing like a maniac and dry mouth but am sticking with it. How are you and where you up to
With choices?? Hope you had better week xx sq
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Hi shoppingqueen
Yes I was a bit worried to take the other one as not getting settled again to be told stopped that to.Good to hear things are improving for you though, long may it last xx
I went to the doctors and she was waiting in corridor shaking her head saying don't believe it 😕 Think she was as gutted as me!
I was going in to get the gel but when she looked at notes she said it made my ME worse and didn't stop the night sweats. I was prepared to take four pumps but she said first to try Indivina.
It's the only one I've not tried.
It's only been a week so I'm guessing some side effects as feel wiped by afternoon and sweating a lot. I also feel bloated.
I'll give it till beginning of April to see how I'm going, I'd like to hear how you are doing to.
So keep me updated. Xxx
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Sparklyweirdo this may help you xxxx
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Sparklyweirdo this may help you xxxx
Thanks, it seems like you and me are having similar symptoms too. Looks like we will have to work out what is right for us, although you have other health issues so it may be slightly more complicated for you than it is for me but we will see. Cant wait to see my doctor in few weeks time!
Sparklyweirdo
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Well it's good to go knowing what you would like to try, I really don't like this HRT just don't feel myself at all.
Can you go back sooner or is it a hospital app.?
Let me no how you get on and good luck.
Sometimes it's just comforting knowing your not alone xxxx
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I cant go back sooner cos it is impossible to get appointments with her, the appt i have is the first available appointment with her! and she is my fave doctor who totally understand me and take her time to chat etc. We have a rapport thing going on haha.
I will let you know how i get on! I totally agree with you that it is nice to know that there is someone in similar position as me even though i wouldnt wish this on anyone haha. xx
Sparklyweirdo
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Hey Sparklyweirdo
Yes I no what you mean, I have had the last 7 or so years trying to settle on tablets just as I get there it's all thrown in the air, I'm sick as a chip with it all xxxx
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Hi all, and particularly Lil22 for starting this thread :)
I've just joined the forum so this is my first post, and normally I would begin with a new thread, introducing myself to you all, so apologies if I'm not following protocol in jumping into this one? Had I not seen the subject matter of this thread as well as Hurdity's particular post referring to the Dumfries and Galloway "Manufacturing Problems" page I would certainly have started from scratch, however I seem to be in a similar position to you, Lil22, and judging by Hurdity's link, perhaps also living in the same area, I'm in Dumfries?
Basically I'm 52 and have been on Prempak C (0.625 1.5mg) for a good number of years, but when I went to get a repeat prescription this last time my GP told me it had been discontinued (I was in seeing him on an unrelated matter anyway). He said to give him a week and he'd find me something else, so on my next appointment he handed me a prescription for Premique (0.3 1.5mg). After a bit of research it would seem to me that this new prescription isn't really equivalent to my previous prescription, but as Hurdity showed in her link, at least in Dumries and Galloway anyway, the more seemingly equivalent Premique 0.625 1.5mg is also discontinued. I'm concerned now that it may not be long before Pfizer also discontinues the Premique dose I've been newly prescribed.
Thing is, my old Prempak C barely controlled my day and night sweats so I'm wondering at the logic of putting me on a lower dose at all, but my GP didn't ask me about any of that before choosing this new prescription for me. It all seems a bit haphazard to be honest, like he didn't put a lot of thought or effort into looking into what might actually work for me, nor did he discuss the matter with me prior to writing out the new prescription and leaving it for me at the GP's own attached pharmacy (Lochthorne Medical Centre). My last pack of Prempak C is finished tho, and so I've had to start on the Premique, even though I'm a bit dubious that it's not really right and I may have to switch again. Surely that would just be unnecessarily messing with my hormones?
Thanks in advance for any advice
Ghostgirl x
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Hi Ghostgirl,
Nice to meet you 😊 I'm in North Yorkshire.
It seems very odd he has put you on lower dose, sounds like he has just put you in first thing that came up.
The closest I've been told is Premarin and provera but I'm the Same don't want to settle on this then this discountined.
This is turning into a nightmare for me I feel awful on my new HRT indvina.
Is there another doctor you can see as the one you seen dose not sound very helpful xxx
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Hiya Lil22, really nice to meet you too, and thanks for replying :)
My mistake btw I just assumed Dumfries because of the link in a previous post. Yes, as you say, it seems to me my GP has just gone and randomly plumped for the first thing he came across?! ...Oh its HRT, it'll do... sort of thing.
My Prempak C did make a difference to my hot flushes, and day and night sweats, reducing, but not completely removing those symptoms, so I would have liked to have had a chance to discuss the best way forward with him before switching to something else. And maybe even gotten some information as regards other options, which, having read through a few posts on this forum I realise are available, patches, gels etc? My Doctor has never discussed any of that with me in the past though.
The main problem was I only had about 4 pills left in my last packet of Prempac C when he hit me with the news that it was discontinued, and he asked me to leave it with him for a few days, so by the time I picked up my new prescription from the pharmacy it was time to start taking it right away! I've made an appointment to see him on Friday, so I'll see what he has to say on why he's chosen Premique for me then.
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Eeee I really feel for you he sounds as much use as a chocolate teapot.
Can you see another doctor? I've had a few who just don't understand (including women) I just can't believe he had literally said oh well here take that.
I think you need to read as much as possible and maybe go and tell him what you want, I find this best way for me, I do the research (drive everyone mad) on here, what will suit you best ect.
The gel is a good option for one of the most natural ways which is the route I may try again.
It did not stop my night sweats but may need to up my dose, I've got app thu so see what happens then.
I'm not to great on HRT like what's similar to others ect (even though been on everyone) but if you look at the list on here will give you some idea what you can get and the strengths ect.
Don't forget yr not on your own xxx
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Thanks sweetie, I'll certainly quiz him on his reasons for choosing this new prescription when I see him on Friday, I think he may be one of the ...shall we say "less educated"... GP's you mention though, so it may come to asking for a referral to the menopause clinic at the hospital. I think we still have one of those as I seem to remember visiting it when I first went of HRT.
However you're absolutely right, it's good just to discuss things with others, and hear how they are getting on, much better than trying to work it out on your own!
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I'd be lost without this site, I've already be n through this once I was on nuvelle HRT for ten years and that was discontinued so been trying for the last four years to find a one I'm ok with as also have ME.
A year and a half later discountined 😩😩😩😩
I was going to a menopause clinic but when I moved my doctor said oh I no enough about HRT. Clearly not as half the things I say she dose not no about.
When I'm there on Wednesday I'm going to ask again can I go to a clinic as should be having bone scans ect.
I really think you should ask to be referred as your doctor sounds like he can't be bothered, or go with what you want in mind and tell him xxxxo
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I'm had the same problems and all my symptoms came back. Drs useless. after lots of research and looking through these forums I went to the dr's and told them I wanted femoston. She gave me femoston 1/10 and I feel so much better almost human again after a couple of weeks. Thanks to these forums 😀
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Glad it's working for you Tess - great to hear some good news stories - long may it last :)
Hurdity x
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Feel your pain! I had been on prempak -C for 6 years then went to get a repeat prescription a couple of months ago and was told they had been discontinued so I was given Premique and now asked for a repeat prescription and now been told that too has been discontinued! What is going on with the pharma companies? Got to arrange an appointment with my doc to get another type of HRT! :-\
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LIl22 I inow its been a while since you started this post, just wondering which one fave you acne. I've just switched to Premarin. Did you end up going back to premique?
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I'm on premairn to but I have a funny feeling this will be discontinued as same company as the others. It was one of the patches, Livial and another that gave me acne, even the elleste solo made me have it. I'm still trying to get rid of the scars I've got from that xx
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Lil22, I doubt it will be. It's one of the most popular ones in the States.
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Fingers crossed, I'm not feeling great ATM with a lingering bug so can't get a good feel of how I'm doing on it. Xxx
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I'm doing much better on it than on oestrogel. I feel normal. Well normalish ::). I can't imagine it being discontinued. They have just used conjugated in the new HRT duavive. It's still so popular in the states too. Yams don't work for us all, some of us need horses ;D
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I no when you've had as much trouble I've had your past caring what you take xx