Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Tempest on December 31, 2016, 05:22:48 PM
-
Hi, ladies
Just popping by because I've recently been advised about the phenomena that IS auras!! I know a lot of you think you may have developed non stop anxiety, but the 'aura' as it is known is a particularly rotten little devil that you may not be aware of! >:(
These are feelings of 'uneasiness' that happen before a hot flush is due, and can also happen without a flush happening at all! Why do they happen? Who knows!!! I've been tracking mine and now I realise that I DON'T suffer from unrelenting anxiety, it's a definite phenomena! Now I have been able to 'track' these, it's given me a great deal of peace of mind (and yes - they do even happen on HRT)!
Try tracking yours - you may be surprised. If you know what they are and don't react to them so much it may just help you to know that you're not going insane, it's just part of this whole menopause rollercoaster.
Hugs,
Tempest xxx
-
That's interesting Tempest. Have you got any links we can read? I've only heard of Auras in relation to migraine before. I get these but I also get the horrible feelings just before a hot flush (caused by a sudden increase in adrenaline I believe) but this is totally different from the migraine aura.
Thanks for posting about it.
Taz x
-
Hello Tempest.
I think the 'uneasiness' that you describe has been referred to by other ladies as a feeling of dread that comes over them before the hot flush begins. I experience these as a kind of power surge and in the section on emotional symptoms my trusty meno book talks about 'subtle sensations such as trembling, fluttering, unease and discomfort with more severe feelings of anxiety or panic arising with little provocation'.
Since this blooming meno lark began I would say I have constant anxiety but in truth there are times in the day when it just disappears and I feel normal, sometimes even relaxed before another episode begins. Annoyingly whenever I wake at night I feel calm but the horrible feelings always return in the morning.
It will be interesting to see what other ladies make of your comments and of course the 64 million dollar question is how do we rid ourselves of the rotten things!
Take care.
K.
-
I bet these are the adrenaline rushes I get when I'm dropping off to sleep! Can't be anxiety as I'm almost asleep
This does make sense although I've not had flushes I've heard women say they can feel 'funny' immediately before one x
-
That's interesting, it reminds me of how I felt on the two occasions I've fainted. Horrible feeling.
-
Hi Tempest
I've only heard of auras in relation to migraine too. I experience some sort of adrenal surge before a flush hits: during the day I just 'know' a flush is building but at night I wake very suddenly and am completely and totally awake before the flush hits. It can leave me awake for hours but thankfully I don't get the horrible sweating that some women experience or anxiety.
I had a conversation with Menomale about this but her posts were removed so I can't point you in that direction I'm afraid. I read that just as our 'heating thermostat' is affected by peri/meno so too are the adrenal glands thus the release of adrenaline at odd times. My moods are not affected by these surges but I know some women suffer terribly with anxiety which this surge seems to cause so at night they can wake and feel wildly anxious.
Menomale had posted some links detailing this. I'll see if I can find and post any relevant info, I did investigate her links so I may have a record of them.
Do you suffer with migraine Tempest? It appears to be quite common that silent migraine are aggravated by peri: that's aura/prodrome symptoms without the migraine headache. Irritability and a feeling of uneasiness, along with a million other weird and whacky things, can be a symptom of prodrome. If I wake feeling like a bear with a sore head I know I have a migraine building. For those with silent migraine, if not recognised and diagnosed, the symptoms can be very confusing and alarming. Not all auras are ocular which most people would associate with migraine. x
-
Hello Tempest.
I think the 'uneasiness' that you describe has been referred to by other ladies as a feeling of dread that comes over them before the hot flush begins. I experience these as a kind of power surge and in the section on emotional symptoms my trusty meno book talks about 'subtle sensations such as trembling, fluttering, unease and discomfort with more severe feelings of anxiety or panic arising with little provocation'.
Since this blooming meno lark began I would say I have constant anxiety but in truth there are times in the day when it just disappears and I feel normal, sometimes even relaxed before another episode begins. Annoyingly whenever I wake at night I feel calm but the horrible feelings always return in the morning.
It will be interesting to see what other ladies make of your comments and of course the 64 million dollar question is how do we rid ourselves of the rotten things!
Take care.
K.
You've described my symptoms to a T Kathleen! Been like it for a year now except for 2 weeks in October when I went on holiday to Lanzarote and it completely disappeared, and I mean completely, after the first day or so. It stayed away for 2 weeks and it was absolute paradise, like winning the lottery, but as soon as I got back to the UK it returned overnight. I couldn't believe it as I really thought it had gone for good.
-
Hello Tempest.
I think the 'uneasiness' that you describe has been referred to by other ladies as a feeling of dread that comes over them before the hot flush begins. I experience these as a kind of power surge and in the section on emotional symptoms my trusty meno book talks about 'subtle sensations such as trembling, fluttering, unease and discomfort with more severe feelings of anxiety or panic arising with little provocation'.
Since this blooming meno lark began I would say I have constant anxiety but in truth there are times in the day when it just disappears and I feel normal, sometimes even relaxed before another episode begins. Annoyingly whenever I wake at night I feel calm but the horrible feelings always return in the morning.
It will be interesting to see what other ladies make of your comments and of course the 64 million dollar question is how do we rid ourselves of the rotten things!
Take care.
K.
Hi Kathleen,
I think you posted at the same time as me and I missed your comment. Menomale had posted some links which I read that led to other studies, one of which suggested that the adrenal glands were affected by blood sugar levels. It was implied that frequent and very regular eating patterns could help 'manage' the surges. I suppose eating little and often, concentrating on slow release carbs. These surges only cause a problem to me when I'm sleeping as they wake me dramatically and it's impossible to return to sleep. I've been eating a slow release carb just before bedtime which has helped enormously. I still wake before the night flushes but am able to go back to sleep now. If this helps me at night, could eating little and often help you with these surges through the day I wonder? Worth a try?
I've tried searching for the studies and links Menomale had posted but can't find them - sorry my brain isn't up to much today. x
-
This is fascinating. Thank you Tempest and everyone. I experienced migraine auras during perimenopause with zigzag colourful lights and partial loss of vision; missing parts of people's faces etc.. but I haven't had one since being in menopause (touch wood). However all the things you all describe - the rush of adrenaline, waking up at night before a hot flush, the momentary feeling of unease are things that I have been experiencing for the last couple of years (now 55 and 3 1/2 years post meno) - feelings that would fit into what you describe as the weird and whacky things of prodrome Elizabethrose - perfect! Thank you! In fact I was wondering about this very connection the other day, as I've noticed on a couple of occasions that after having had a really bad day with those feelings I've felt the same kind of exhaustion afterwards that I used to feel after a migraine.
Very interested in the idea of keeping the blood sugar stable - I had been starting to join the dots on that one too... I have been carrying dried fruit and nuts around with me for that reason. Will try it out more and notice how it goes. Thanks very much.
Tempest, it's great that knowing about it makes you feel better. It really helps I know - takes some of the fear away. I've been reading your posts and am really glad to hear you sounding good. All the best xx
-
Yahana, there was a recent thread about silent migraine that may be of interest to you. menomale's posts are missing so it may seem a little disjointed. This is the link to it.
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,33983.0.html
-
I agree with stabilising blood sugar - and as a sidetrack to migraines - when I get one although I feel somewhat nauseous (not severely ) I crave carbs/sugar which I normally eat in very small amounts.
In terms of blood sugar levels generally - it would be wise for all peri-menopausal women to change their diet to stabilise blood sugar levels - it stands to reason that it is bad enough having to cope with physiological and emotional changes due to hormonal fluctuations without having to contend with others that we are able to control more easily.
On other threads women have complained about feelings of faintness, jitteriness etc and several of us have posted about blood sugar. Your body will thank you for controlling it in the long term and especially if you are overweight.
I know I talk about this quite a lot on and off but it involves cutting out sugar as much as possible from your diet (apart from some fresh fruit and maybe a little juice or occasional small treats) as well as refined carbs - eg potatoes, rice, pasta, bread, biscuits, sweets, cakes, sugary drinks, and if you do eat high carb foods - make sure they are slow release like wholemeal bread, wholewheat pasta, muesli etc - and even better start to cut them out of meals completely and replace with low fat protein, beans, nuts, veg, yogurt etc.
Sorry Tempest this is probably completely off topic but I really think all women should be doing this if they suffer at all from mood swings or any strange feelings - apart from using HRT or other cycle control mechanisms - we can't do so much about the cycling hormones but we can at least make sure our energy centre and metabolism can function as best it can without unnecessary insulin spikes, blood sugar surges etc.
I'll get off my soap-box now ;D
Re adrenaline and stress - it goes without saying to try to make sure one's life becomes less stressful if possible and learn ways to relax without letting things worry you (easier said than done I know for some people) - so that less adrenaline is released.
I have read that oestrogen and progesterone also have differential effects on blood sugar and the changing levels of both of them are often noticeable in terms of hunger and blood sugar....I think for some women more than others (eg me!).
Hurdity x
-
I get this a lot. I sometimes even wake up with it. I thought it was just anxiety as i suffer from depression and anxiety.
-
Sparkle, this too! I've found a partial cure for this. Good old fashioned......HORLICKS. Yes, it works! The old stuff, which you mix with milk and has the added vitamins. Not the 'instant' variety. The waking shakes are no where near as bad! And yes......I KNOW it contains a BIT of sugar, but hell - if it works! Our Grandparents can't have been wrong.......😊😊
I'll put some links up to info. on menopause 'aura's' as soon as I can gather together the best ones. This is definitely nothing to do with migraines, and are referred to as 'aura's' in the literature that consist of feelings of uneasiness/anxiety/dread. So, it's normal for menopause! No less scary, absolutely horrible but NORMAL none the less. Which just goes a wee way to making us feel slightly less bonkers. Maybe.😉😉
And I still miss Menomale - she used to post some good links on some of the more unusual menopause stuff. I hope she's still out there, and doing ok......Sending you hugs Menomale if you're ever quietly dropping by and reading this. xxxx
-
Skimming through our own MM archives I found this thread which discusses this phenomena, and also links to other related threads so I thought I'd start with this as it's pretty comprehensive......
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php'topic=14483.0
I personally think this subject should be 'stickied' - it would save a lot of newcomers a LOT of added anxiety as I see this posted about so often, mostly with a heading of 'Am I Going Mad'? Or similar. :o
-
So what is to be done for it? To me, it's different than low blood sugar, though easily confused. I put on a bit of extra weight stuffing my face every time it happened until I figured out it had nothing to do with hunger. I've always needed to eat proteins regularly or had ill effects. I do seem to be more prone to low sugar effects at certain times in the cycle, whether it's during progesterone phase or estrogen only, I haven't noted. But the "aura" can really hit anytime. Do antidepressants/anti-anxiety meds help? And do they vanish when post-menopausal?
-
I've tried searching for the studies I'd found leading from menomale's links but haven't managed to find anything so far that doesn't add a link to a product i.e. direct advertising. 'Adrenal Fatigue' appears to be something of a fashionable condition at the moment with all and sundry trying to sell a product which will miraculously cure it! >:( I'll keep on looking.
I'm trying to remember what I read but please take into consideration meno-brain and memory. The adrenal glands are affected by the decline in oestrogen in peri/meno and start having to work harder. They have to produce oestrone to replace the declining oestrogen from the ovaries. The greater 'stress' on the adrenals causes increased production of adrenaline which in addition to its fight or flight function is also released when blood sugar levels fall below a certain point. Cortisol is also created by the adrenal glands and plays an important role in the maintenance of blood sugar levels. Whilst normally blood sugars are low in the early hours of the morning, the added stress on the adrenals at this stage in our lives, makes it difficult to maintain cortisol levels. If blood sugars fall too low, the natural emergency routine is that adrenaline is produced and released to wake us and make us eat.
The overriding advice seems to point to keeping our bodies fit and healthy. As others have said, diet and exercise will assist with this but as we all know the maintenance of the ideal is 'difficult'. A family friend, a consultant psychologist, forwarded me a Ted Talk link a while ago about re-educating ourselves about stress. I had passed it onto my son who has a hugely demanding and stressful job. I posted it a while ago but can't remember where so I'll post here again. It's a little cheesy but very very informative and a bit of a revelation. She had said to me that everyone handles stress in different ways: some people naturally don't see stress as a negative whilst the majority do. And this makes a difference. Our attitude to stress seems to affect how stress affects us. As Hurdity said, if we can reduce our stress levels (and change our attitudes to stress) this can affect how our adrenals work, which may help to manage these errant adrenal surges.
Anything is worth a try ladies, as Sparkle says eating late at night is impossible for some of us. I don't tend to have a problem with digestive issues but there are some nights I simply can't eat my bedtime banana (no wonder I've put on weight!) and I will without fail wake with the surges and then really struggle to return to sleep. The talk doesn't last too long but do see it through to the end as the facts just keep on coming! Hope it helps
https://www.ted.com/talks/kelly_mcgonigal_how_to_make_stress_your_friend#t-21137
-
That is AMAZING, Elizabethrose! Thank you so very much for sharing. This has helped me so much with other issues that I'm personally experiencing at the moment.😊😊
I like to think, in a small way, that reaching out on here helps with that helpful Oxytocin for most people BUT it's also made me realise how important it is to be mindful of how we reply to people who are seeking help. Forums can be good and bad. A good deal of them can actually perpetuate misery - either through hurtful comments or unhelpful, uneducated advice or encouraging people to feel hopeless (the misery loves company scenario that is too often present on 'support forums'). It's the nature of the internet - it's faceless and impersonal and is therefore no replacement really for interacting with real people who can offer real help and support.
I post very little these days - mainly because I'm dealing with a lot of personal issues, and because when you're stuck in a very negative mindset as I have been (and still slip into often to be honest) it's so easy to grasp on to the negative, therefore reinforcing my own negative beliefs. When you're feeling low, you only read what you want to read to reinforce feelings of fear and misery - whereas, when you reach out and allow others to help you in a holistic way the picture is much more balanced and you can be more objective.
I'm still learning........The reaching out for me hasn't been easy. ;)
And it's also good to know that by helping others, we can also effectively reduce our OWN stress. I'm sure this is why some cultures who have a close sense of family and community deal so much better with stressful life events than we do in the western world.
Thank you so much again for sharing! xxxx
-
You're very welcome Tempest. You keep up the fight girl, you'll get there xx
-
Thank you so much, Elizabethrose! That really means a lot. xxxx :) :)
-
What a fascinating post ladies...thanks for the info on Adrenals Elizabeth Rose. For the last 2 weeks or so I have been a little under the weather and have started to experience some of the symptoms described, butterflies, feeling of dread and feeling a little faint. I have been on the same dose of Oestrodot for 6 months so figure it cannot be that as everything up to now has been fine with alternate day dosing of Utrogestan since sept. I am now wondering if the added stress from being under the weather has put strain on my adrenals and hence more production of adrenalin (butterflies, etc) and potentially low blood sugar (get tremendous thirst too). I have no ovaries so the patch is giving me a constant dose of E. I guess I just need to ride it out.
As you say Tempest, really miss contributions from Menomale.
Rhiner
-
My son is being treated for 'Adrenal Fatigue'at the moment. This is the second time he has developed it.
The first time was quite dramatic as he became so ill he developed a tremor in his left hand. This is what sent him to the doctors in the first place.
Luckily we have a very holistic, forward thinking GP who knows how to treat it, as it is not universally recognised as a condition.
-
Hi
First of all Happy New Year!
When I was getting my funny turns last year I saw a naturopath who gave me hormone balancing herbs and supplements. I was getting what I think were low blood sugar dips as well as all sorts of weird stuff happening. I also started taking a supplement which contains Ashwagandha root which is Indian gingseng and magnesium, chamomile or lemon balm (depending on which brand you buy). Ashwagandha is an adaptogen which means that the body will only use what it needs and is a great adrenaline gland supporter. I came across it via a link on this site to an US forum and lots of ladies were saying how good it was. Anyway, I think it really helped along with the other herbs/supplements I was given.
Once the initial weirdness and anxiety left, every now and again I'd get an off day so I just started back on the Ashwagandha for a couple of days and that seemed to fix it.
Sparkle, have you just tried a few walnuts at night to stave off the low blood sugar dips? I don't think you need many but the additional protein before bed seemed to help me or if I woke with the weirdness during the night or first thing. Hopefully they wouldn't upset your hernia as they aren't carbs.
Now after all that's gone the flipping hot flushes are back. Had a couple of months of bad night sweats, luckily I'm now waking before the heat hits so can fling the duvet off but I'm now getting the odd one during the day....arghhhhhhh you can't win, maybe the HRT isn't working so well but reluctant to up the dose as have been on it 5 years. Fed up with hormones....
-
Hi Breeze,
I'm very sorry to read that about your son. I'd never heard of Adrenal Fatigue before today when I started looking for the links. I'd heard of Addison's. There appears to be a great many Doctors and companies in the US selling all sorts of books and treatment plans: it's almost impossible finding information aside from on direct sales sites. How brilliant that you have such a switched on GP, I'm hoping he is able to prescribe a suitable treatment plan.
I wish your boy well x
-
Luckily he is not so bad this time. The first time he was treated with a steroid drug, which was administered at the surgery, in two doses a week apart. This shocks the adrenal glands into functioning properly.
This time the doctor decided against it as it can cause increased fatigue, for up to 2 weeks, before any improvement. Also it can lower the immune system, which is not a good idea, this time of year.
Instead he advised increased physical activity (he will be swimming 3 times a week), as well as cutting out caffeine, sugar and alcohol (which he did the last time). He was also prescribed a low dose AD, which he can take but only if he feels the need. This is to help with the anxiety which is one of the symptoms.
He has another appointment, later in the month, to see how he is progressing.
-
Is it the same as Addison's? I used to support a child with this.
Taz x
-
No Addison's is a very serious illness that requires life long medication. Adrenal Fatigue can happen to anyone and is generally brought on by stress and lifestyle. The adrenal glands become so depleted they stop doing there job properly. Typical symptoms are severe stress, comfort eating, weight gain, fatigue and cravings for stimulants (caffeine, sugar, alcohol etc.,). Stimulants actually make the condition worse so a vicious cycle occurs. Not very pleasant but recoverable.
-
Hi Sparkle
Tum is ok thanks! The after effects have just been, can't eat too much at one time, which is good! I can only tolerate a small amount of creamy or rich things as I soon feel sick, which is good! I pretty much avoid oily or fatty stuff ...I ask for salads with no dressing or sauces etc on the side etc. l don't get an upset stomach if I eat a bit too much fat but I can tell...without tmi!!! I think having been on that diet for so long things are just an institution now but it's nice to be able to eat more without the threat of pain!! Although I could quite easily slip back into sugary things especially when feeling stressed or tired!
Wine is a bit of a no, no :( sometimes I'm fine and sometimes just one glass can disturb my nights but that is probably more of a hormonal thing but spirits are ok!!! Although I don't want to drink much as I'm very aware of liver health now!
As for the flipping hot flushes, just reading the other thread of others experience of how they got worse a few years into post. It's almost like you've then reached another level, I'll have to see how they go as I've got to see the doc soon. She's happy to put it up but the patches are a jump from 50 to 100. As I've been on it 5 years just worried about the getting into a more risky period....no you can't win against the lack of hormones!
I just wish they could do more research and studies into this whole meno thing and come up with something that there isn't a risk of the big c or giving you ad's. If flushes are an issue of the internal thermostat surely they could find some drug to fix it....please!!!
-
It does! It's not happy at the moment as all bloated but then my hormones are out of whack at the moment, so back to some clean eating for a few days.
My hot flushes started years ago and then disappeared once on hrt with one at night which was perfectly manageable but now they have increased it's annoying. I wouldn't mind so much but I never had any period problems, pmt or any issues with any pills except one but certainly getting hit now! Maybe you might be lucky and not have to tick that box!
-
THanks for this - I have experienced something that I think is very similar. They used to really freak me out, and really panic me and they'd blow up into major panic attacks for me. This was 3 years ago and I had cognitive behaviour therapy which really worked for me in the end. It was hard work overcoming the panic, but I managed it and now I can ride through it pretty well. It's still uncomfortable, but I don't go into a panic, I just let them wash over me and they go quite quickly thankfully. But if you are getting them for the first time, and do not really know what they are, then they are pretty scary.