Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Mojo61 on December 31, 2016, 01:36:12 PM
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Hi ladies. I'm about 4 years post meno now and didn't have any symptoms until last November when I was struck down almost overnight with terrible anxiety and depression. Fast forward a year and with a combination of HRT and SSRI's I'm a lot better than I was but just recently have started feeling lousy again. Someone suggested that our hormones shift during menopause and one can be stable for a while and then there is a decrease and you can feel rotten again. What's the truth here please because I can't seem to find a solid answer on google. How long roughly does this process take and will I always have periods of happiness followed by abject misery? Thanks for reading.
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Hello Mojo61, I am not on HRT but like you have anxiety and ups and downs and like you it all seem to start over night this August.
I hope someone can help with your question as I am interested too.
You are not alone.
;)
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My understanding is If you have ovaries they do still produce 'some' hormones so stands to reason I guess it wouldn't be a steady low stream, but adrenals play a part too
I'm post meno with no uterus and apparently no ovaries and I have highs and lows so I blame my adrenals
X
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Hi Mojo61 - I think there is another Mojo on here as I've just checked and it's not you taking Testoserone?!
Re the hormones. Following the last period ie the last ovulation, oestrogen levels fall fairly rapidly for the next couple of years or so when they plateau out and remain approximately stable. Many women only begin to experience symptoms at around this time or their symptoms worse. It could well be that, in the absence of any life events contributing to this, and if you haven't suffered anxiety or depression earlier in your life, low oestrogen could be the culprit since low oestrogen dose cause low mood and anxiety in many women.
If that is the case, then a change in HRT dose or type might have been a better solution than anti-depressants ( ie if hormonally caused).
From what I've read - the information shows a nice neat graph of oestrogen levels falling but actually it is not a smooth decline - as there can be some follicular activity after the last period so there could be a slight rise and fall in oestrogen levels for a short while afterwards - although nothing like anything experienced during the menstrual cycle and certainly not as high.
Most of the oestrogen post-menopause is produced in fat cells and I think the source is DHEA produced by the adrenals - I don't have time to look it all up now!
So the answer is - they decrease pretty rapidly - but over 2 or so years - so in that sense (compared to a menstrual cycle) it is a gradual decline.
You can read about it all here (Stages of Reproductive Ageing):
http://www.imsociety.org/downloads/email_downloads/2012_02_16_1773491/straw10.pdf
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity. Yes, I think there are 2 Mojo's on here because I couldn't get the name without adding a 61 on the end.
I really don't know what's causing me to feel so bad then. I'm taking kliovance tablets but waiting for a mirena coil and separate oestrogen patches to hopefully stop the fortnightly bleeding I've had since starting HRT in March of this year.
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I think I'm going to pay to see a psychiatrist privately as I've had this for over a year now and I can't carry on much longer. In April I was seen by the CMHT who basically said I don't fit their criteria for an NHS referral and signed me off as "sane" if you like. I certainly don't feel sane, I feel mental!
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I can only comment on what happened to me. I had a very sudden onset of symptoms (severe insomnia) just over 6 years ago. Prior to that I'd only had some irregular periods. My GP put me on a low dose hrt and I felt great so I thought I was home and hosed.
Then 10 months later I had a very sudden return of the severe insomnia, so I made the mistake of thinking the hrt was useless, and I started going to a naturopath and. It's a long and complicated story, but that set me on a very long and painful path of benzo use and benzo tapering which I've only really just recovered from in the last 6-12 months.
When my symptoms returned I now know I should have just gone up to a medium hrt dose. I've been on a medium dose now (Estradot 50) for quite some time and I feel that everything has now settled. So I feel that my hormone levels did a couple of dramatic drops rather than a steady decline.
If I was you I would certainly look into an increase in estrogen before going down the track of a psychiatrist. Those guys usually just want to fill you up with ADs and benzos.
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Hi Mojo61, I am very similar to you too. My periods stopped 31/2 years ago and I had hot flushes but 2 years ago I suddenly got hit with anxiety and brain fog, which seem to feed into each other, creating a bit of a vicious cycle. There are times when I'm fine and think it's all passed, but it then returns. Trying to figure out what causes it. I take HRT which has stopped the daytime flushes but hasn't stopped the night time ones which come at 2 hourly intervals. Those make me feel that my hormones are still doing something or other and are therefore responsible for how I feel, and that ultimately it is all hormonal, and hopefully will pass. I've read in various places about women experiencing menopausal symptoms for a decade or so, which seems to suggest that though estrogen levels fall as Hurdity says, there must still, for some women, be some kind of activity which affects us mentally as well as physically. Anyhow, sympathies from me. Hope it passes soon...
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Hi Yahana - if you're still experiencing symptoms is would probably be worth increasing your dose. Daytime flushes do tend to be easier to control with hrt, but for some reason night time flushes less so. Even though I'm on hrt, and doing really well on it, on the odd occasion I will still get a hot flush usually around 4-5am. It's not something that I would consider increasing my dose for, but if you are still getting very consistent night flushes then that would indicate your dose isn't high enough.
Woman can and do suffer menopause symptoms for a long time after their periods stop (some well into their 70s, as is happening to some of my friends), but it's usually caused by the actual loss of estrogen, rather than the level remaining unstable. My natural estrogen level is very stable now - but that level is probably practically zero..lol...
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Thanks Stellajane. I'm waiting for a referral to be fitted with the mirena coil and separate oestrogen actually, I'm hoping that will help. I don't expect to feel perfect every day, but I would dearly love some semblance of normality to return to my life, one where I'm not constantly thinking about my symptoms and how dreadful I feel. I'm so tired of it all, I'm truly exhausted..
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Thanks Hurdity. Yes, I think there are 2 Mojo's on here because I couldn't get the name without adding a 61 on the end.
I really don't know what's causing me to feel so bad then. I'm taking kliovance tablets but waiting for a mirena coil and separate oestrogen patches to hopefully stop the fortnightly bleeding I've had since starting HRT in March of this year.
I agree about possibly increasing the oestrogen dose. Also some women find they do not absorb oestrogen well when taken orally and the dose can vary according to your digestion and other things, whereas transdermal oestrogen should give a more consistent dose.
The other thing is you are taking Kliovance - which means that you are taking a synthetic progestogen the whole time. This one is norethisterone which can give pms type symptoms in some women as well as anxiety. In some cases it also can negate the beneficial effects of oestrogen - and if you are also taking ADs then there are all sorts of things going on.
If the reason you were given ADs was for menopausal symptoms (flushes and sweats and the associated emotional and mood changes) I would consider changing your HRT type and stopping the ADs (of course if you need the ADs for other life events and have suffered depression in the past then obviously this latter suggestion does not apply!).
Many of us prefer to use transdermal HRT - for the reasons given above, and also to continue with a cycle ( which means having a withdrawal bleed) so that we do not have to have progestogens all the time. I have pretty much only ever been on this type of HRT regime (transdermal, cyclical progesterone) - for nearly 10 years and I am now in my 60's.
Do you really think you need a psychiatrist? I agree with Dana - do look into your HRT first....
I hope you are feeling better today :)
Hurdity x
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Thanks again hurdity. I don't think I'm brave enough to stop the AD's yet, but I'm hoping the mirena coil and separate oestrogen will help as it means I won't b taking the progestogen systemically. Would you agree?
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Not sure if this is right but wanted to write to you I am a new member I have been reading your posts I need help wonder if any one could help me.i am 59 I have in the past had postnatal depression for which I was treated with mental hospital and antidepressants until I found NAPS I went to see Dr Katherine dalton understudy in Croydon which she put me straight in for implant which kept coming out so I went on gestone in and cyclogest suppositories i managed my own symptoms increasing when necessary symptoms were anxiety depression feeling of morbity I forgot to say I did take overdose in beginning as was told by doctor when I went you either sink or swin not helpful.the doctor reviewed my medication and said that I could not have the progesterone anymore and that they treat with Prozac which I did manage on after tailing off progesterone however I still had symptoms then I discovered wellsprings progesterone cream natural which I administer myself and got relief with sleeping .i have been experiencing more regular setbacks lasting about 4 days however this has been longer this time 6 days and I have been thrown into panic went to see doctor on 3 rd day as I thought these symptoms are becoming more regular they have offered me councilling which my first assessment is on 26th jan I feel so desperate any help or advice would be helpful as sometimes I get it that its hormonal then I don,t confused xxx