Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: lesley998 on December 28, 2016, 05:19:20 PM
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Hello all, not posted for a while but still keep up with things.
A while ago, I joined in a thread in which someone mentioned the Early Morning Dreads, which perfectly described the awful way I was feeling at the time. I was on HRT, Premarin and it was shared by a couple of ladies that they also had these feelings (manifesting in dreadful anxiety and butterflies and feelings of doom on waking and for a few hours) and it was mooted that perhaps the hormones upset the homeostasis of the body...the over production of cortisol during the night could be causing these terrible and very real feelings and sensations in the morning. This made such sense to me and when I came off HRT for other reasons a few months later, I found that the dreads completely disappeared and I have been feeling pretty good for the last year or so, despite a few awful things happening in my life. Seem to be over the worst of meno too which is wonderful. The odd flush but not much. Anyway - I was recently diagnosed again with acid reflux and gastritis, and the Gp has put me on something called Omeprazole. Within three days of taking this as prescribed...got the awful jittery anxiety back in the mornings, exactly as before.
Just wondered if anyone else can identify with this? I'm not sure what to do...the reflux is awful, and has actually manifested not just with the usual heartburn, but a horrible bubbly cough too, I've had it for about three months, my chest crackles. Doc says its the acid going up one pipe and down the other. Don't really want to stop the medication but I can't go through this doom thing again, it's hell.
Who would get old huh :(
Thanks
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I too stopped HRT for the same reason, causing dreadful anxiety, I only stopped Christmas day, not out of the woods yet but not nearly as bad as I was, I have a hiatus hernia and I take Lanzol 30mgs every morning (to stop acid reflux) and have to say no side effects at all, maybe your doc needs to change you to different tablet or try taking it at night instead of the morning and see if this helps.
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really interesting to read this. I am taking tibolone just started it few weeks ago. But this morning business is really interesting as I have always questioned the morning sickness in morning hours, anxiety high. Due to gall stones it adds to fun as well. Cortisol in morning makes sense too. I will be seeing dr in jan will be interested in asking this question but I think sometimes they have no answer as well
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Thanks ladies. I have learned to never underestimate the power of the effects of hormones. Trying to explain the dreads - especially, I have to say, to a young male doctor - is very difficult because it sounds so weird. I literally wake up and groan and curl into a ball at the thought of another day. The smallest task is like a mountain to climb. my stomach churns, then I find myself standing in the shower staring into space, feeling terrified at nothing, it's like I'm going to my execution or something! I Just feel absolutely doom laden and anxious. Then by about ten, eleven I'm fine again. I've had a look online and there is a connection between Proton pump inhibitors and anxiety. I can just imagine the reception I will get from my GP when I speak to him about it...but maybe I should try ranitidine or something else.
....the other thing I get with the anxiety is restless legs...a real urge to squirm my feet around in bed. Only on waking though!
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I'm really interested to read this and wonder which hrt caused anxiety. I take estelle duet conti and have really dreadful anxiety I also take emeprasol.
Any thoughts folks
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OK - here we go.
As oestrogen levels drop off muscles may become lax = aches and pains. This includes the start of reflux as the internal muscles allow acids to return from the stomach …….
Omeprazole can have the opposite effect and cause more problems than it cures. Have you tried something Over-the-Counter, i.e. Milk of Magnesia or Rennies - I find that not eating/drinking too close to going to bed stops any chance of reflux/heartburn but if it does start 2 of the latter eases symptoms. Occasionally I wake with pain behind the breast bone into the lower chin in the early hours which is scary.
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Cutting out spicy foods and coffee helps some with reflux. Allows the oesophagus to 'heal' and not be aggravated. Sleeping slightly raised, i.e.
bricks under the foot of the bed, can help.
I would try a more simple anti-reflux medication ……….
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Thanks all!
I've tried everything for my reflux. It's a genetic thing I think...dad suffered, as did his parents and my sister. We are/were terrible over thinkers and anxious people. I had the camera down the gullet years ago, even had the portable naso gastric pipe to measure levels....nothing they ever did sorter it. it all got a bit better when I swapped to a low carb diet and cut out sugar. But.... This last few months I've been overdoing the the rose wine and chocolate...and all the other things that set me off. I've never been prescribed omeprazole before, but have had Losec in the past. I've also tried propping up the bed, apple cider vinegar. Didn't realise my cough was reflux until I had had it for over three months, chest X-ray came back clear the doc heard crackles and bubbles up near my larynx and said it was textbook reflux. Wake in the night suddenly like I am choking drowning. Hate it. But my worst problem is the dreads. I would do anything not to have them back, and couldn't believe it when I felt that familiar feeling a few days after starting the omeprazole. I've stopped taking them. :o
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Sparkle....thanks. Your post made me feel less mad. ::)
The idea that any change in hormonal activity in meno can affect the adrenals...and go on to affect cortisol levels really made sense to me. The 'dreads' are a chemical thing, there's nothing I can do to 'snap out of it' or change my 'thinking' to feel better....I just have to understand that the chemicals in my brain are a bit awry for a while and wait, in terror, until the levels have sorted out (eating? Walking around? Who knows what helps, I just suddenly feel less terrified ) and then I feel normal again. Can really identify with what you said about cause and effect. Thanks.
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I had early morning deep, prehensile fear when I was severely depressed :-\. Awful.
Maybe cut out 'triggers' now that the 'festive' season is over? keep a diary? let us know ;-)
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Thanks cLKD
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:foryou:
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??? ::) - Dad was advised to raise the foot of the bed :-\
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I agree - now I'm wondering why Dad had the foot raised ::)
Like you, my gut is my weak point. Any raised voices and my stomach would churn, any change of routine the same :-\ - no amount of CBT altered my gut reaction >:(
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I had well left the parental home by the time the bricks went under the end of the bed ::)
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One tip for acid reflux is to eat gluten free products - my husband had terrible acid reflux and was on the tablets - he changed to a gluten free diet and now only takes a tablet if we are eating out. Appreciate his is not related to any menopausal symptoms but maybe worth a try?
xx
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I remember reading on the net that Omeprazole can lead to certain nutrient deficiencies - low calcium levels and magnesium deficiency due to making the stomach less acidic. Maybe worth thinking about some supplements - magnesium does seem to calm anxiety to an extent.
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Dr James Le Fans has written a lot about Omeprazole and others throughout 2016 in The Telegraph on Mondays.
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Hi all,
So good to know I'm not alone in experiencing these early morning dreads - it's 7.39 and since I woke up at 6.09 I've felt very dodgy: all doom and gloom at the thought of the day ahead even though I have a welcome day off from work so a chance to catch up on lots of things, go for a lovely dog walk and a massage later!! Madness.
I was just talking to myself about how I don't have to worry about what the future holds but just get through each day until things settle again - what have I become!
Physically, I get tightness in my chest and a nervous stomach and I just feel so ill at ease. Could also easily dissolve into tears if I let myself.
This did all pass off for quite a few months and was much less of a bother for some time before that, and I put that down to the HRT. However, it doesn't seem to be so effective now so I have stopped putting a patch on until I see my GP on 17th (at her suggestion). I've been on it 5 years so slightly nervous....
I've also started doing progressive relaxation in the morning, in bed, before I get up - maybe that will help.
Any thoughts on how to lessen the physical/chemical effects which cause these morning problems??
Oh for the days when I just used to get up and get on with the day!
Sending good wishes out to all fellow morning blues sufferers..
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Hi Sparkle,
I've just started taking 5HTP to see if it helps my mood and anxiety and from night one it improved my sleep - I now wake up feeling more refreshed from sleep than of late. It can increase dreaming though - I'm having some very vivid ones! I've only needed 50mg at night so far and I'm going to see if there is any improvement in my other symptoms over the next week or so.
It might be worth a try - maybe have a google to see what is said about it .
:)
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Rescue Remedy ?
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Well day 5 of hols in lanzarote and feeling better today, have been very anxious since arriving, doesn't help when your health anxiety is heart related and your apartment is on 'cardiac hill, lol. Surprisingly I seem to be getting relief from rescue remedy which can be bought over the counter and much better than anti depressants, ie no side effects Hopefully I will enjoy last few days in the sun x
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Your heart is fine! Otherwise you wouldn't be walking up hills without symptoms ;-) so put that one to bed?!? Enjoy the :sunny:
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Well my happy place didn't last very long :'(, chest pain again yesterday evening which my logical head tells me is indigestion but my panicky head says heart. Monday won't come quick enough so I can get home and visit doc. I am determined to get my life back and this menopause related anxiety under control, it's ruined my holiday,sorry to go on but I feel this is the only place I can come and people understand x
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Yammy1 I'm so sorry to hear your anxiety got worse whilst on holiday. I really feel for you as it is always hard to be away from home when feeling unwell. Monday might seem an age away right now, but it will come around quicker than you think.
Do you have any techniques/tools to help you through ie mindfulness, muscle relaxation, meditation? If you have access to internet maybe you could google some sites which you could get some tips from (utube, nopanic, off the top of my head).
If you've taken valium before might a chemist over there sell it over the counter?
Also, how about writing down exactly what it is that's causing you to panic and 'take those thoughts to court' ie, how likely is it that it will happen; think of other explanations, also a good one is - what would you say to a friend who expressed the same thoughts to you, as you are having?
Write down some helpful statements and carry them with you: This is only anxiety and it is a feeling that I don't like but it cannot hurt me. I've coped with such feelings before and worse, and I've got through. It will pass. I am doing really well. I am calm and relaxed. Thank you mind but I am not playing this game today. (There are lots of others which you can find on anxiety websites) Read them as often as you need to.
Sorry I seem to have rambled on a bit - hope some of it might be of use to you. xx
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2cats - your ramble is useful :thankyou:
Ask your GP for some anti-anxiety medication, once the anxiety is under control your logical brain will kick in. When anxiety becomes physical, logicality flies out the window in this house :sigh:
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Ironically, Yammy1 I also have come to MM this morning to off load but wanted to try and offer some help to you first after imagining you feeling so poorly whilst abroad (one reason I've only been abroad once in the last 5 years and that was 2016, to France on a ferry and still had to take valium here and there during the week to calm my anxiety down!)
My 2 nights of 5HTP and great sleep was stopped yesterday after getting a migraine which I wanted to take a triptan to get rid of it but found I couldn't due to drug interactions between the two. Decided not to take the 5HTP so that I could take a triptan sometime today (could tell this was going to be a 4 day migraine without my wonder triptan). Well I had 3 lots of 1 hour sleep and spent the night in a mental turmoil! Husband came down to find me on the sofa at 8am and I sobbed in his arms on and off for about an hour. I can't bear being such a bloody drain to him though he tells me I mustn't worry about him.
I've had no hrt oestrogen going into my body for several days now and only half a patch (25mcg) for several days before that - could the effects be wearing off so quickly? I've been getting the morning dreads even with the patch but this is worse - very much like the despair I felt before getting HRT in 2011.
Trying to decide whether to hold out till my GP appt on 17th or just to put a patch back on.....
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Thank you 2cats, CLKD and your right I need to stop focusing on all the negative feelings. It's hard but im trying, I have a couple of zanax with me, just took half one to try take edge off, the most annoying thing is my heart has been checked out and all fine, but when anxiety rears its ugly head panic sets in which in turn causes chest pain and all the other aches and pains that manifest. Had a couple of drinks last night and no pains just enjoyed myself so I know there is nothing wrong because pain disappears when I relax, mind you I'm only having a couple because the last thing I need is a hangover on top of everything else, poor hubby is trying to understand and our 14 year old daughter is with us so I'm trying to not let her know ho I'm feeling. I'm going to get ready now and go out on a little trip, I'm determined not to let it win >:(
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Good for you Yammy1! Get that Xanax down you and enjoy your day. If anxiety tries to rear its ugly head - don't try to fight it but just let it know you're not interested. When those demons tell you it's too scary and you need to get back to safety, keep steering your ship in the direction you choose to go - to have a lovely day with your husband and daughter!
I'm guessing you're from the UK and the weather is filthy here at the moment so make the most of any sun you might be getting! lol
xx
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I'm from Ireland but the weather there is much the same. But I'm definitely coming back in my next life as a man lol. Feck these hormones, I've always had anxiety but not for a long time so this has just floored me. But I know I beat it before and I will again, onwards and upwards as they say X
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2cats - if your husband is able to offer that shoulder, then use it, far better than pushing him away! Did you have headaches during your menstruating years, maybe a different HRT is required?
Yammy1 - logic goes out the window when I feel sick with nerves, once the emergency med. kicks in and I begin to relax and the physicality goes away, then I am able to cope again.
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CLKD - not so much pushing him away as holding onto him for dear life! I'm still bleeding now and have had worse headaches since entering the perimenopause . I've just had a couple of weeks without so to be hit by a really bad one is grim. Have taken a triptan but it has not worked as of yet. Spent the day in bed with a cold flannel on my forehead - migraine and sadness and tears - great combination . Sorry but I'm feeling like I've been dealt a bum deal and the future does not feel bright at all atm. I officially hate the menopause :(
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Yes Sparkle I was trying not to take over the original thread with my woes!
Yes possibly linked by serotonin drop I think?? Mood drops and blood vessels expand causing the pain.
I so quickly forget all the times I feel ''normal' when I get like this.
Let's hope for less morning blues tomorrow for all of us :)
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Sparkle how come you stopped the citalopram (an AD?)? Definitely needs more investigation as I have digestive upset problems too!!
x
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Good afternoon all, well tomorrow I fly home so feeling better today. 2cats I took your advice yesterday and popped half a zanax and got through the day and night relatively well,although on way out yesterday afternoon I tripped on steps and badly bruised both legs, surprisingly I didn't panic and we carries on with out day out. I'm very sore today but emotionally I'm fine so that's a bonus. I am going to pay doc a visit when I get home and maybe try a different hrt because I am not willing to let this menopause take over my life anymore than it has done. I'm 53 next week and i feel 93 lol.
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OUCH! don't be surprised if various parts of you ache during the week, I found that my shoulders and chest also hurt following my fall.
Maybe make a list of symptoms so that you can work through it with your Practice Nurse/GP? Book a double appt. at the end of the day?
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Will do CLKD, am feeling generally sore all over, just going to have a nice warm shower(no bath in apartments), and get dressed for our last dinner in beautiful Lanzarote and enjoy the last of the sun, home tomorrow ;D x
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Thanks Sparkle for that info.
Yammy1 so pleased for you that you got your anxiety under control! I was chuffed as nuts when I read it yesterday! Hope the journey home was uneventful.
x
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Thanks 2cats, home safe and sound. Feeling much better today just still a bit bruised from my fall but anxiety wise I'm feeling much better x
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R U usually less anxious at home or was it the thought of the journey? How are the aches and pains?
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hi CLKD, I do think my anxiety was worse because I was away from home, I can have bad days at home but not near as bad as when I'm away. Still a bit achy and bruised but getting there, It's funny when I was on hols I was counting the days to get home, but now that I'm home I wish I was back in the sun :), Never happy, But I am determined not to let this put me off as I love to travel, I prefer city breaks where your kept busy, I love the sun but as I am very fair skinned I don't tan I just burn and I find sitting around the pool for hours I get more anxious( too much time to think)x
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I used to be away and count how many sleeps left B4 I would be travelling home again, I would also wish to get through the week fast so that once home, I would know how I'd been :sigh: - then I would know whether I had/not enjoyed myself.
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It's awful isn't it, looking forward to a holiday and like you counting the sleeps until home time. Spent the holiday looking at other people and wondering if they felt as anxious as I did, or how come I'm the only one with knots in my stomach as if i could tell how everyone else was feeling just by looking at them. but I'm not going to beat myself up, at least I went and more importantly I survived,
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But OH! the effort it takes to survive :'(. We would book a holiday cottage for a week so I would feel more trapped. When ever I consider going abroad, my gut turns inself into knots :'( :-\ but at least I am not too bad at the moment.
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Me too when we went away last week some of our friends were already there, we only had two days together and how i envied them going home, it's really awful isn't it. usually try to book just three or four day city breaks and hope they fly by. really is no way to live :'(, but like you i'm not feeling too bad at the moment, I think all the Christmas hype being over helps.
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It certainly does - only 12 months to go before the next one :D
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I can certainly relate to all your reactions to holidays! However, I've just had 3 really great anxious-free days , so much so that yesterday my husband and I spent an hour or so looking up holidays in the Balearics! Well, serves me right for being so ambitious - I've woken up today in a right state! Crying, tightness in chest, feeling hopeless and a right bloody idiot for even thinking I could be capable of going on holiday abroad!
Can't believe I am back to square one again. To feel so 'normal' again, only to be back in a black hole is like a kick in the stomach. I messed up the amount of propranolol I had left and so I am hoping that because I didn't take my normal amount yesterday (only about 50mg not 120mg), that this may be part of the cause. I woke up after an hour and a half last night and spent most of the night worrying and feeling really peculiar. Ended up taking 2 x 2.5mg valium in the night to get me through, plus the last 10mg of propranolol. Didn't help knowing that it is really dangerous to just stop taking it.
Was at the chemist at 9am to pick up prescription.
Hopefully things will improve over the day for me.
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It isn't dangerous! When my bowel is slow I stop all my meds for 24 hours, that loosens up any slow transit. Then I began taking the next doses at night and I'm still here!
Oh I know so well the excitement of feeling well enough to think about booking a holiday! Been there etc. etc.!! I can do stuff in the evenings when relaxed, the next morning panic sets in :'(. Why start looking abroad, maybe a couple of nights in a Hotel less than an hour's drive from home? I get anxious if we are more than 5 hours away ......... :sigh:
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So it's not just me CLKD! Thank goodness. Up until last Oct/Nov, I had been pretty stable for a while so we even got to France last year, though it was by ferry not plane..that's for another time! Last 2/3 years, I've been happy to book weekends away in advance knowing that I was pretty likely to be OK. Not now - I am back on a weekly rollercoaster of ups and downs. I guess I'll wait for things to calm down again before being brave enough to book anything, otherwise that will give me something else to panic about.
To think of me yesterday, teaching, laughing and joking, enjoying my day to the crumpled mess I am this morning, completely mystifies and depresses me.
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I call it despair :-\ ........ this is a woman who thought she would never set foot out of the house again :'(. To someone who can get on most days without problems. By chance I found that by adding 5mg of AD to my daily intake anxiety took a back seat :o.
I take 10mg at night and 5mg AD in the morning; 40mg Propranolol split a.m./p.m.; I have an emergency pill to take when anxiety over-takes me and knowing it works helps enormously. The side effect is a muggy head but I can live with that!
As long as I have my emergency pill to hand 'in case', I have a Life again ....... I still don't plan more than half a day ahead mind ::). Little steps. I also find that when really anxious, that sticking to the household routine as well as making lists, eases it a bit.
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Good to know that you have found a regime that works for you. Is that quite a low dose of AD that you're taking CLKD?
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Yep - 5mg at breakfast and 10mg at night. A Psychiatrist advised over 20 years ago that because my depression is cyclic, I need a low maintenance dose for Life.
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Cyclic as in connected to your menstrual cycle? Do you mind me asking which one you take? Sorry for all the questions. :)
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You ask away, it keeps my brain active ....... ish!
Cyclic not related to menstruation. I would have severe depression, take prescribed medication, feel better, stop taking it then slip into depression: the Psychiatrist who visited at home as my GP was so concerned about my mental state, recognised the pattern, hence the advice. (Escitalopram 5mg/10mg, Propranolol BB and Lorazapam as necessary)
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CLKD, You're so right about the emergency pill. I had some zanax with me on holidays and when real panic set in half a tablet did the trick. 2cats so sorry to hear your not feeling too good, it's worse when you have a few good days and then hits like a ton of bricks :'(. I also use rescue remedy when I feel that all too familiar churning in my tummy start, and usually this cuts out the need for pills, not all the time but it does help a lot. I too have been feeling good since I got back from hols, even went out for a few drinks with hubby last night and i started talking about booking another trip, but he knows me too well, hence nothing booked. No more trips abroad for a while, maybe just short breaks not too far from home.