Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: kiltgirl on December 09, 2016, 01:43:45 PM
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Hi,
was wondering if any of you could share some advice on how to not be a horrible mother when you constant PMS symptoms?
I can't even remember the person I used to be, don't feel like I've laughed in such a long time. I'm a single mum to a 9.5 year old, I don't have any family of my own, but her dad has a large family who all adore her.
Actions speak louder than words and I can tell her til I'm blue in the face how wonderful and loved she is and then proceed to nag about the mess and snap at her because she just asked 6 questions in a row without drawing breath, or get annoyed because she accidentally tickled my leg sitting next to me on the sofa...I can hear myself going on at her sometimes and telling myself to just shut up but it doesn't seem to work. Of course if I know I'm being out of order I will tell her and tell her the reason.
I feel as though I'm ruining her childhood and the thought of that destroys me. She's a beautiful person and I'm so lucky to have her, she's also really sensitive and I can see her face sometimes when I'm being moody.
She's also worried about me as I've been so low and knows I'm going to have an operation sometime soon (hysterectomy) which doesn't help. I don't know what to do...trying so hard to be a good mother, it shouldn't be so hard, I just can't help being so changeable :(
If anyone has some magic words or a way to explain to her what's going on...she knows about hormones, she's been getting a little bit that way herself and we talk about it, I hope because of this she won't think (as I did) that she's just going crazy sometimes..
thank you for reading x
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Ah yes - I had one of those mothers ;D and no-one wants to be that mother.
Trouble was, she never explained anything, and when she tried, it was in aggressive accusatory tones. I was really glad to leave home. ;)
Maybe have some easy reading material scattered around (like the MM magazine?) - I learned a lot on the QT from my Grandma's Womans Weekly.
Is she away at her father's regularly - if so make sure you get some proper 'me time' to recharge your batteries and look after yourself, or find a new interest. To look after her, you need to be giving yourself what you need. It will make those little things less irritating.
I used to find my son very irritating at that age - he is very definitely his own person - but he has never fitted into my idea of what he should be. One of his teachers (the very good one) remarked that he had a very well developed sense of humour. It made me step back and realise I had been getting him all wrong. It is always good to have a new perspective.
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It is hard work, parenting! Do you have contact with her father?
9+ are ages when children become selfish, 'me, me, me' …… have you sat her down to explain that these things called hormones can get out of control and make women snappy. [her time will come but no need to go into that with her yet]. Maybe let her choose a 'buzz' word for when she thinks you are OTT! Even my spaniel used to shrug her shoulders and wander away when I had shouty moments :D ……..
You are full of guilt so tell her. That way she can say if you really are 'spoiling' her childhood. Will she do more around the house, maybe giving her a responsibility of i.e. sorting her laundry, keeping her room and the bathroom clean etc. when you are feeling un-well? Let her choose a different chore each week; does she cook?
Have a chat with her teachers in the New Year. See how she is in School which will give you an idea of how she is coping generally.
The main thing is to eat regularly. NAPS advised me when I *suffered* with PMT to eat every 3 hours, even during the night if I had to get out of bed. At the time I had a puppy who needed 'out' in the early hours …… so grazing eased any sugar dips which caused intense nausea and/or irritability. That is, eating every 3 hours, 24/7 ……
Let us know what your daughter suggests.
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Hi Kiltgirl
Reading your post made me cry. I feel exactly the same like I want to scream at mine tonight and have already shouted at them.
I know it's really hard and have no magic words - just wish I did.
It sometimes helps to leave the room and count to 10.
Take care x
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Kiktgirl
Mis71 mum has good advice about counting to Ten and leaving room . Recently I have been practicing STOP and that's literally what you do when you feel your getting upset or angry just STOP and say to yourself what's happening here, deep breathe, I'm ok.
I'm sure your a great mum but no ones perfect, be knd to yourself xx
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Your daughter sounds lovely and a huge input of that is down to you so pat yourself on the back for the good you've done
I think you have to be careful how you explain things
if you apologise in advance and blame your hormones you're losing parental authority in a way. I've got a 21 year old but I'd never say to him look I'm hormonal excuse my moodiness as I can just imagine every time I have a justifiable moan at him he'd come back with "hormones playing up?!"
I'd tackle each situation as it arises and apologise THEN if you feel you're in the wrong.
And it's not just kids, my friend and I had another friend who was born a moody cow but as her periods were going haywire she got worse. My friend and I used to say she needs to sort her hormones out then work on her personality
Don't give the ammo is my opinion, but if you're wrong say so and just say mummy is tired or something
She'll probably not too far away be preoccupied with her hormones and I doubt she'll give a hoot about yours
X
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Ah yes - I had one of those mothers ;D and no-one wants to be that mother.
Trouble was, she never explained anything, and when she tried, it was in aggressive accusatory tones. I was really glad to leave home. ;)
Maybe have some easy reading material scattered around (like the MM magazine?) - I learned a lot on the QT from my Grandma's Womans Weekly.
Is she away at her father's regularly - if so make sure you get some proper 'me time' to recharge your batteries and look after yourself, or find a new interest. To look after her, you need to be giving yourself what you need. It will make those little things less irritating.
I used to find my son very irritating at that age - he is very definitely his own person - but he has never fitted into my idea of what he should be. One of his teachers (the very good one) remarked that he had a very well developed sense of humour. It made me step back and realise I had been getting him all wrong. It is always good to have a new perspective.
I had one of those mothers too dahliagirl, and she made me feel it was my fault, she was always so angry. I left home as soon as I could too! I know that I won't make my daughter feel this way because I do talk to her but I don't want to make her feel anxious all the time either because she doesn't know what kind of mood I'm going to be in!
She does go to her dad's alternate weekends so I can zone out then, don't usually feel motivated to do much but is just nice to not have any demands etc. I admit I'm rubbish at looking after myself when anxious, which is all the time at the moment...I think I need to revisit some CBT techniques maybe...thanks for replying x
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It is hard work, parenting! Do you have contact with her father?
9+ are ages when children become selfish, 'me, me, me' …… have you sat her down to explain that these things called hormones can get out of control and make women snappy. [her time will come but no need to go into that with her yet]. Maybe let her choose a 'buzz' word for when she thinks you are OTT! Even my spaniel used to shrug her shoulders and wander away when I had shouty moments :D ……..
You are full of guilt so tell her. That way she can say if you really are 'spoiling' her childhood. Will she do more around the house, maybe giving her a responsibility of i.e. sorting her laundry, keeping her room and the bathroom clean etc. when you are feeling un-well? Let her choose a different chore each week; does she cook?
Have a chat with her teachers in the New Year. See how she is in School which will give you an idea of how she is coping generally.
The main thing is to eat regularly. NAPS advised me when I *suffered* with PMT to eat every 3 hours, even during the night if I had to get out of bed. At the time I had a puppy who needed 'out' in the early hours …… so grazing eased any sugar dips which caused intense nausea and/or irritability. That is, eating every 3 hours, 24/7 ……
Let us know what your daughter suggests.
Thank you :) that's good advice, I do try to get her to take responsibility for stuff around the house, this is where I end up nagging though as she does it enthusiastically for a little while then can't be bothered...
Maybe we need a written agreement with financial incentives ;)
I know her teacher thinks she's really quite cool, we just had a parents evening where she said she's one of the most 'reflective' kids she has, (not in a shiny way) and she is funny, lil bit of a clown but mostly i just find it irritating, after school in Tesco today she nearly drove me mental just by being excited about Xmas...
I think maybe I don't give her enough responsibility because I find it hard to share that aspect of things, food for thought, I think that needs some work x
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Hi Kiltgirl
Reading your post made me cry. I feel exactly the same like I want to scream at mine tonight and have already shouted at them.
I know it's really hard and have no magic words - just wish I did.
It sometimes helps to leave the room and count to 10.
Take care x
Ah I'm sorry Mis71Mum, it does make it a bit better to know you're not alone though...sometimes you just want it all to just leave you the **** alone!
I've never managed much in the way of mindfulness when like this, will give it a go, maybe I need to give myself time-outs...I've just bought my girl a futon sofa bunkbed that she absolutely loves and has been spending more time in her room, I think this benefits both of us although I do miss her being next to me all the time! x
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Kiktgirl
Mis71 mum has good advice about counting to Ten and leaving room . Recently I have been practicing STOP and that's literally what you do when you feel your getting upset or angry just STOP and say to yourself what's happening here, deep breathe, I'm ok.
I'm sure your a great mum but no ones perfect, be knd to yourself xx
Hi WTD, what is STOP? I will give it a google, anything that might make me feel I'm more in control of my actions will be very welcome. Deep breaths will also help, I find myself holding my breath all the time, really not helpful...not the greatest role model for a young girl!
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Hi Kiltgirl,
I felt the same as Mis71Mum as well, I got tears in my eyes reading your post. I am struggling as not only am I in peri, but I have two teenagers plus think my youngest is starting puberty. Our house is just full of hormones and it is a real struggle for me plus my husband is getting fed up of it all!
My daughter was your daughters age when she started going through puberty. I remember her Teacher said to me 'it's her hormones' and I said isn't she too young and she said no! I bought her a book called 'What's Happening to Me' it's aimed at girls from age 9 and explains what happens during puberty. Now this may be a good idea as it explains about moods etc and you can read it together and you can then explain that is what happens to you and why you get annoyed etc sometimes.
Motherhood is hard and harder still when you're a single parent. I know the guilt feelings myself and I do get upset thinking they're having a rubbish life at present but I'm hoping it will have no lingering effects.
Take care x
thank you Megamind...
the book seems a good idea, just been washing her hair in the bath and we had a chat about hormones and how wonky they can make you feel and react, she does get it as she described her reactions to granny telling her how to sit at the table recently, yep...hormonal!
I kinda feel a bit sad that she has to go through this too, all part of growing up I suppose x
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Your daughter sounds lovely and a huge input of that is down to you so pat yourself on the back for the good you've done
I think you have to be careful how you explain things
if you apologise in advance and blame your hormones you're losing parental authority in a way. I've got a 21 year old but I'd never say to him look I'm hormonal excuse my moodiness as I can just imagine every time I have a justifiable moan at him he'd come back with "hormones playing up?!"
I'd tackle each situation as it arises and apologise THEN if you feel you're in the wrong.
And it's not just kids, my friend and I had another friend who was born a moody cow but as her periods were going haywire she got worse. My friend and I used to say she needs to sort her hormones out then work on her personality
Don't give the ammo is my opinion, but if you're wrong say so and just say mummy is tired or something
She'll probably not too far away be preoccupied with her hormones and I doubt she'll give a hoot about yours
X
Annie0710 you're totally right, I think this is why I'm really struggling.
She's a lovely girl and generally very caring and nurturing by nature but obviously she's also a child and will want to manipulate situations sometimes...I hope I'm through this by the time she's a teen! A lot of the time lately I can't even think straight enough to 'be the adult' and set boundaries etc...she really needs them.
Thank you all for replying it makes me feel like less of a horrible person, I've never felt such guilt about so many things as I have done from pregnancy up to now...I worry so much that I will turn out like my own mother (still bearing the emotional scars and low self-esteem from that)
I feel more positive after posting on here and will try some of the techniques...thank you xxx :hug:
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STOP
S= stop , what ever your doing
T= take a,step back , literally walk one step backwards
O = observe what's happening
P = proceed mindfully
You dont have to use it all I tend to use S and T
I know it sounds a lot of clap trap to some people but I find it helpful
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The first sign my daughter was approaching puberty was she kept crying over the littlest things and she developed greasy hair. She also started her periods a lot younger than I did and she suffers badly from them unlike I ever did. I think she takes after her Grandma (my mother in law) who always suffered badly. My daughter has terrible, terrible moods and PMT now that she has inherited from me as have always suffered badly from PMT but peri feels like permanent PMT!
I totally agree...permanent blimmin awful PMT! Yes I definitely think that's where she is, she's also getting quite pronounced breasts, thankfully she thinks that's quite good fun, she came through and said 'look mum!' and jumped up and down to make them jiggle...I was mortified when i got mine...very early.
On the plus note I think at least in this all female house we are going to be very open and understand our hormones! I'd like her to realise it's normal and at least if she's bad she's not as bad as her mum!
Sorry to hear your daughter is struggling with hers, it's so sad to see your child depressed and out of control. x
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STOP
S= stop , what ever your doing
T= take a,step back , literally walk one step backwards
O = observe what's happening
P = proceed mindfully
You dont have to use it all I tend to use S and T
I know it sounds a lot of clap trap to some people but I find it helpful
Thank you! I think I might share this with my girl too...
you've all been so lovely in your replies x
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Yep - it makes one remember who the adult is …..
What does your daughter like doing around the house? Maybe a points system if pocket money isn't a possibility, add up so many per week = a treat ? For you both ;). 5 for washing up every evening without being asked to do so for example?
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I have a 18 year old daughter with add , at times we both are like time bombs , we can blow up at each other then be great pals 10 minutes later i think my hubby and son sometimes think we are mad ! We have a great relationship i have never been close to my mum, i think even though some times are hard make sure you manage to enjoy doing things together and take time to be interested in her interests and that will make up for if sometimes things are not great xx
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I suppose explaining that what you say/do at the time is meant but is not intended to hurt. ? . Spur of the moment hormonally led.
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I suppose explaining that what you say/do at the time is meant but is not intended to hurt. ? . Spur of the moment hormonally led.
Yep - it makes one remember who the adult is …..
What does your daughter like doing around the house? Maybe a points system if pocket money isn't a possibility, add up so many per week = a treat ? For you both ;). 5 for washing up every evening without being asked to do so for example?
She would prefer to do the dinner and make a massive mess in the kitchen and leave the rest of the stuff to me ;D Her dad seems to be able to get her to do stuff but he pays her a tenner to do it! :o I think if I promised to do an activity of her choice with her as a reward (as long as I can behave myself) it might work more than money...good idea :)
She is more adult than I am sometimes...I will tell her it's not intended to hurt...that's kind of what I was looking for but couldn't put my finger on! x
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I have a 18 year old daughter with add , at times we both are like time bombs , we can blow up at each other then be great pals 10 minutes later i think my hubby and son sometimes think we are mad ! We have a great relationship i have never been close to my mum, i think even though some times are hard make sure you manage to enjoy doing things together and take time to be interested in her interests and that will make up for if sometimes things are not great xx
I think that sounds quite healthy...I've always been worried about confrontation, maybe it's not such a bad thing as long as you're both secure enough with each other x
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You are her Mum Kiltgirl, not her friend! Boundaries will become harder to enforce as she pushes them ::).
My husband does all our cooking [long story short] and I clear up. (sometimes there is a LOT of mess). He does the driving, car maintenance, heavy gardening: I do the laundry, put out the bins and feed the wild birds. It's about compromise - apparently ;D
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Oh kiitgirl,
Been there, got the t-shirt!
My children are now in their 30s and lovely.
I grew up feeling that my mother behaved badly because there was something wrong with me. In other words, I caused the abuse. I was terrified of my Mum. What she said went, no discussion. Hormones? Maybe.
I have memories of shaking my daughter, at a similar age to your daughter, in the midst of PMT, and it seemed as if I was watching, appalled from above. I came back to myself and stopped. I did not want to continue the cycle and behave like my mum and cause damage to my children's emotional well being that had been done to me.
I had a frank talk with my children. I explained this was about me, not them. I was responsible for my behaviour just as they were for theirs. But that PMT made me more vunerable, but I would try very hard with their support and sensitivity. I told them also that they were loved unconditionally, no ifs and buts, just for 'being'. But that didn't mean there wouldn't be consequences for bad behaviour. The same went for me.
My children have told me that they never felt undermined by my moodiness and snapping when suffering from PMT, because I was upfront and honest. They knew what was going on and it would pass and meanwhile, they got on with their own things. They have grown up to be amazing human beings, both wonderful parents. I'm still Mum, but we are friends and now they boss me around! We're there for each other.
Advice? Talk. Explain. Tell her how loved she is. How wonderful she is. Knowing that her worth and value in this world is a given will make a huge difference to her life's experience. And know your worth and value is a given too. Forgive yourself. Relax. Breathe...... :)
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You are her Mum Kiltgirl, not her friend! Boundaries will become harder to enforce as she pushes them ::).
My husband does all our cooking [long story short] and I clear up. (sometimes there is a LOT of mess). He does the driving, car maintenance, heavy gardening: I do the laundry, put out the bins and feed the wild birds. It's about compromise - apparently ;D
Yes I agree, I just don't always have the energy to battle, so sometimes she does win, there isn't another adult here to compromise with sadly, I wish there was :(
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Oh kiitgirl,
Been there, got the t-shirt!
My children are now in their 30s and lovely.
I grew up feeling that my mother behaved badly because there was something wrong with me. In other words, I caused the abuse. I was terrified of my Mum. What she said went, no discussion. Hormones? Maybe.
I have memories of shaking my daughter, at a similar age to your daughter, in the midst of PMT, and it seemed as if I was watching, appalled from above. I came back to myself and stopped. I did not want to continue the cycle and behave like my mum and cause damage to my children's emotional well being that had been done to me.
I had a frank talk with my children. I explained this was about me, not them. I was responsible for my behaviour just as they were for theirs. But that PMT made me more vunerable, but I would try very hard with their support and sensitivity. I told them also that they were loved unconditionally, no ifs and buts, just for 'being'. But that didn't mean there wouldn't be consequences for bad behaviour. The same went for me.
My children have told me that they never felt undermined by my moodiness and snapping when suffering from PMT, because I was upfront and honest. They knew what was going on and it would pass and meanwhile, they got on with their own things. They have grown up to be amazing human beings, both wonderful parents. I'm still Mum, but we are friends and now they boss me around! We're there for each other.
Advice? Talk. Explain. Tell her how loved she is. How wonderful she is. Knowing that her worth and value in this world is a given will make a huge difference to her life's experience. And know your worth and value is a given too. Forgive yourself. Relax. Breathe...... :)
Hi Ju Ju, that must have been awful, it's good to hear things have moved on so well. I do similar to what you did, as in tell her how loved she is etc...I can't even imagine my own mother doing that...it was usually something of the opposite in nature!
Maybe I'm freaking out over nothing, she's a cool kid and probably gets it, it's just me and my view of myself that thinks I'm getting it all wrong. Something about peri that makes any self confidence you have just go through the floor.
I know I'm definitely freaking about the upcoming hysterectomy, which is making me worry about my daughter if anything happened to me...wish I could think rationally even just for a little while each day! :o
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I remember being told that part of being a parent is feeling guilty! And yet all we can do is the best we can do at the time with the knowledge we have at the time. In fact being 'good enough' parents is good enough! I would love to go back to my younger self and hug me. I would tell myself it will be OK. Just trust and love and respect my children to find their way. And for goodness sake, stop beating yourself up! Well. I can't go back, but I say that to you and give you a virtual hug instead! :bighug:
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The other thing to say if necessary, "I love you but I don't always love or like what you do or say!"
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I can't advise you because I'm not finished ruining my own kids :'( I can relate though. Last week I had it out with one and we were both in tears. When he started telling me it wasn't my fault and I'm a great mother, it was the most terriffing thing I've ever heard. In that moment I remembered my own mother, who was awful, crying all the time and making us feel as though her being crazy was our fault. I do not want to play the martyr like she did. So I did have a heart to heart with him, not blaming hormones but explaining that I feel overwhelmed and I want the best for my kids and stress is getting to me, and that meanwhile, the kids can help by following the rules, obeying without argument, and generally behaving like they should be behaving anyway.
I think the motherhood guilt is common among all mothers. It helps to step back and think about what's reasonable or unreasonable about whatever is making you snap at your daughter. I snap at mine for crawling all over me when I'm trying to relax. My reaction probably is unreasonable when I finally react, but it isn't unreasonable to want some time to relax on the sofa without her crawling on me. I'm now sending my kids to their bedrooms for about an hour every afternoon, just because "I said so". It gives me a chance to chill and them as well. I didn't like to do this at first because it seemed like I was punishing them for nothing and I felt guilty but it's been healthy for all of us.
Kids are hard.
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You have to look after you before you can look after others. Just like the safety messages on aeroplanes, put your own oxygen mask on before putting on masks on others. In other words, you are no good to anyone, if you don't look after yourself. It's not being selfish; its survival! What 'me' time do you fit in for yourself? What enjoyable activities do you do for just for for you?
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I remember being told that part of being a parent is feeling guilty! And yet all we can do is the best we can do at the time with the knowledge we have at the time. In fact being 'good enough' parents is good enough! I would love to go back to my younger self and hug me. I would tell myself it will be OK. Just trust and love and respect my children to find their way. And for goodness sake, stop beating yourself up! Well. I can't go back, but I say that to you and give you a virtual hug instead! :bighug:
Thank you for the hug! Like most (all) of us on here I could do with one :)
I've heard that before and liked it at the time 'good enough'...I know I put too much pressure on myself to do a better job than my own mother, I was actually relieved when she passed away (sorry if anyone finds that offensive I'm just being honest, she was a horrible narcissistic woman), I think I worry so much when I nag etc because it reminds me of her...can you imagine your child feeling like that when you pass, how awful!
I was doing really well after some counselling to get past this but I think the hormonal craziness has weakened my rationale, but recognising this I guess is the first step in overcoming it...
woo sorry that was a bit deep :o
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The other thing to say if necessary, "I love you but I don't always love or like what you do or say!"
Thank you :) I'm going to use this, just realising how bogged down in everything I've been reading all your replies...
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I can't advise you because I'm not finished ruining my own kids :'( I can relate though. Last week I had it out with one and we were both in tears. When he started telling me it wasn't my fault and I'm a great mother, it was the most terriffing thing I've ever heard. In that moment I remembered my own mother, who was awful, crying all the time and making us feel as though her being crazy was our fault. I do not want to play the martyr like she did. So I did have a heart to heart with him, not blaming hormones but explaining that I feel overwhelmed and I want the best for my kids and stress is getting to me, and that meanwhile, the kids can help by following the rules, obeying without argument, and generally behaving like they should be behaving anyway.
I think the motherhood guilt is common among all mothers. It helps to step back and think about what's reasonable or unreasonable about whatever is making you snap at your daughter. I snap at mine for crawling all over me when I'm trying to relax. My reaction probably is unreasonable when I finally react, but it isn't unreasonable to want some time to relax on the sofa without her crawling on me. I'm now sending my kids to their bedrooms for about an hour every afternoon, just because "I said so". It gives me a chance to chill and them as well. I didn't like to do this at first because it seemed like I was punishing them for nothing and I felt guilty but it's been healthy for all of us.
Kids are hard.
Lizab, good advice, and so true...this is a big part of what I worry about...our kids want us to be happy and try to please us, is a big responsibility. Sometimes when I'm spinning out and feeling low I can't tell if I'm doing the right thing or being unreasonable.
I like the idea of telling her how I feel...overwhelmed is a good word to use (I used to have so many good words, seem to have lost half of them lately haha)
I think tomorrow after her sleepover friend has gone I will sit down with her and talk. I swear I asked to to tidy her room a dozen times today and finally ended up shouting at her...unlike her dad I don't have wads of cash to throw at her as incentive. I know she would love spending quality time with me more than any money though...thing is I have to behave myself if I can and not be so moody :o
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You have to look after you before you can look after others. Just like the safety messages on aeroplanes, put your own oxygen mask on before putting on masks on others. In other words, you are no good to anyone, if you don't look after yourself. It's not being selfish; its survival! What 'me' time do you fit in for yourself? What enjoyable activities do you do for just for for you?
You're right, and I don't really do anything in my free time but enjoy being on my own. I think I need to feel stronger, so really it all points to getting some exercise, I spend all my time ruminating which is kinda paralysing!
You ladies are great therapy!! :) :) :)
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When my son was in his teens and very stroppy, (Big argument... he thought I was very unreasonable that I needed to be informed if he was going to be late etc), I told him there was nothing he could do that would stop me loving him. However, if he behaved badly there would be consequences. For example, if he killed someone, I would inform the police, but would be there throughout the process, visit him in prison and be there for him when he came out of prison. Very dramatic, but then I was dealing with a dramatic teenager. I explained unconditional love means loving the person, but does not mean colluding with bad behaviour. I also told him that it was my job as his Mum to worry about him because I loved him and that keeping me in the loop and being considerate as in all his relationships was important. I pointed out that when his Dad asked me if I minded him going out with his friends, he wasn't really asking my permission. He didn't need that, but it was a nice way of letting me know where he was so I wouldn't worry.
This conversation was a turning point for us and our relationship ever since, which is why I remember it. I feel I did some good parenting that day, but believe me, I didn't all the time. Sometimes you really have to spell it out clearly. He was more considerate and thoughtful, because he understood why it was necessary. He is now married happily and a father, with another on the way. My DIL has told what a wonderful man he is. I like to feel I had a hand in that!
Before I retired, I was a teacher. I found it helpful in my mind to separate the child from their behaviour, particularly when their behaviour was challenging. This stopped me from reacting as if it was a personal attack. I was able to see bad behaviour as a symptom of something else, which helped me stay calm and non judgemental. It is easier when they are not your own children and you are not so emotionally involved of course. I've used this when dealing with unpleasant behaviour from adults. It helps not to take things personally. People often react to past pain rather than to the present, which explains why people read things into something where it was never intended.
Anyway, I'm hoping some if this ramble might help in some way.
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Kiltgirl I want to crawl down the cable and give you a real life hug for this
I know I put too much pressure on myself to do a better job than my own mother, I was actually relieved when she passed away (sorry if anyone finds that offensive I'm just being honest,
I was doing really well after some counselling to get past this but I think the hormonal craziness has weakened my rationale, but recognising this I guess is the first step in overcoming it...
woo sorry that was a bit deep :o
but a cyber one will have to do :bighug:
I have had a year's psychotherapy and treatment for an anxiety disorder for the way my mother raised me. She, and my father, were not 'good enough'. I know that now and am now working on reconciling myself to the fact. It is not happening overnight but is a process that is changing the way I look at myself and relate to other people.
I get scared sometimes that I have not been 'good enough' as a result, but our children are lovely, well adjusted adults with good jobs, homes and families so I really hope their father's influence diluted some of my own inadequacies.
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My Mother too is narcasstic personality disorder as is my sister, the 'golden girl' …….. the latter I have little contact with but I do see Mum who is busy with her 'own' Life most of the while ;-).
Thanks Ju Ju - I believe in laying it down when necessary!
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When my son was in his teens and very stroppy, (Big argument... he thought I was very unreasonable that I needed to be informed if he was going to be late etc), I told him there was nothing he could do that would stop me loving him. However, if he behaved badly there would be consequences. For example, if he killed someone, I would inform the police, but would be there throughout the process, visit him in prison and be there for him when he came out of prison. Very dramatic, but then I was dealing with a dramatic teenager. I explained unconditional love means loving the person, but does not mean colluding with bad behaviour. I also told him that it was my job as his Mum to worry about him because I loved him and that keeping me in the loop and being considerate as in all his relationships was important. I pointed out that when his Dad asked me if I minded him going out with his friends, he wasn't really asking my permission. He didn't need that, but it was a nice way of letting me know where he was so I wouldn't worry.
This conversation was a turning point for us and our relationship ever since, which is why I remember it. I feel I did some good parenting that day, but believe me, I didn't all the time. Sometimes you really have to spell it out clearly. He was more considerate and thoughtful, because he understood why it was necessary. He is now married happily and a father, with another on the way. My DIL has told what a wonderful man he is. I like to feel I had a hand in that!
Before I retired, I was a teacher. I found it helpful in my mind to separate the child from their behaviour, particularly when their behaviour was challenging. This stopped me from reacting as if it was a personal attack. I was able to see bad behaviour as a symptom of something else, which helped me stay calm and non judgemental. It is easier when they are not your own children and you are not so emotionally involved of course. I've used this when dealing with unpleasant behaviour from adults. It helps not to take things personally. People often react to past pain rather than to the present, which explains why people read things into something where it was never intended.
Anyway, I'm hoping some if this ramble might help in some way.
Hi Ju Ju, I think it's good to have a respectful talk with your kids too, no matter what their age...I know it works with my girl...of course she likes to be talked to in a mature way.
Lately I've had quite a lot of practice of being verbally abused, at work, used to be that we worked with adults with learning disabilities, nowadays we have more personality disorders, mental health and substance abuse issues...being told to 'f off' and other lovely things because you've called someone to give support and interrupted their morning in doing so is always a lovely way to start the week...I see some colleagues let this into their hearts and they eventually go off sick from the stress...I'm trying to see it as a challenge, plenty of opportunities to perfect my responses!
You're so right about reacting to past pain...it shapes perception I guess? I know I grew into an adult assuming that others would always see me in a negative light, lifelong anxiety and depression...
What a waste of time, makes me quite angry...at least it's never too late to make changes...if I can send my child out into the world a happy confident person then I think I will be very proud!
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Kiltgirl I want to crawl down the cable and give you a real life hug for this
I know I put too much pressure on myself to do a better job than my own mother, I was actually relieved when she passed away (sorry if anyone finds that offensive I'm just being honest,
I was doing really well after some counselling to get past this but I think the hormonal craziness has weakened my rationale, but recognising this I guess is the first step in overcoming it...
woo sorry that was a bit deep :o
but a cyber one will have to do :bighug:
I have had a year's psychotherapy and treatment for an anxiety disorder for the way my mother raised me. She, and my father, were not 'good enough'. I know that now and am now working on reconciling myself to the fact. It is not happening overnight but is a process that is changing the way I look at myself and relate to other people.
I get scared sometimes that I have not been 'good enough' as a result, but our children are lovely, well adjusted adults with good jobs, homes and families so I really hope their father's influence diluted some of my own inadequacies.
Oh thank you! and have a hug back :hug:
It's quite something to have someone validate your feelings about your parents isn't it. I don't know about you but I always felt so guilty about the way I felt about my own mum...it kind of compounded my belief that I wasn't a nice person...my counsellor said 'some people just shouldn't be parents' when I described some of my childhood...I was so amazed, it wasn't because of me...so liberating!
Maybe the fact that we actually care enough to worry if we are good enough or not puts us streets ahead of our own parents...
I hope you continue to heal from your experience too...it's a bumpy road! Hard to let go of the guilt that makes you feel as though you're betraying the people who 'sacrificed' for you or brought you into the world...I'm waffling now...
I'm pretty sure I only started dealing with this stuff as I entered peri...definitely 'the change'...I read somewhere that part of the reason menopausal women are so ratty is because they are much less inclined to put up with cr@p they have lived with up until this point, divorcing friends who make them feel bad or finally dealing with things etc...
x
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My Mother too is narcasstic personality disorder as is my sister, the 'golden girl' …….. the latter I have little contact with but I do see Mum who is busy with her 'own' Life most of the while ;-).
Thanks Ju Ju - I believe in laying it down when necessary!
Oh my gosh, 2 in the same family, you poor thing! At least as we get older we can choose who we have in our lives...x
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No, you're not waffling. My grandmother was a narcissist but these things weren't diagnosed back then. She lived with us all through my childhood. My father was inadequate, in thrall to his mother, and my own mother was always stressed, angry, unkind and ill because of the pressure she was under. A small child was the last thing she wanted or needed as she was already looking after my father and his mother. I was not mothered and I was sent away a lot to stay with relatives. I did not bond with my mother and grew up thinking it was my responsibility to keep my mother happy, to make things nice for her.
I have learned so much this year kiltgirl. I almost like myself now (not quite there but definitely getting there). I have been honest with my own children and they have been supportive. I am determined my 60s are going to be positive, make up for my 50s, 40s, 30s, 20s, teens, my whole life so far. I just really hope I get a good innings in middle age to make up for some of the crap..
Whew, that needed saying. thank you for raising this issue x
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I am in my 60s and despite health challenges, I can say, hand on heart, that I have never been happier. My circumstances haven't changed, but with help, I have taken on board that there is nothing wrong with me! I actually like myself now! I am worthy of being loved and I let that in and therefore I can love. I realise that happiness comes from within and not from outside. I used to feel guilty for not liking my Mum, but now I accept that she is as she is. Yes, she irritates me, but I don't have expectations and that's OK. She had her own challenges as a child and while that doesn't excuse things, it helps me to understand and know it was never about me. If by caring about her means that I love her, then I love her. So you youngsters, there is hope for you yet! As one very wise man said to me, what's there not to love about you!
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Sounds like a lonely childhood, an awful thing it is to grow up feeling like you get in the way or make things worse :'(
I was talking with a colleague who is almost 60, she had a pretty terrible time as a child too, she said she only began to scratch the surface in her 50s.
The 'martyred mum', I do think it must have been harder for mums back then, their place was firmly in the home and mental health issues weren't really addressed as much...and kids had no voice at all...how different from today!
It's been good to share this, I hope your 60s are your time to shine, it will be well-deserved and a good payoff for the pains of middle age, be lovely to think that getting the hormones sorted, feeling physically well and freeing oneself of our demons could all happen at the same time...be a great reward! x
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I am in my 60s and despite health challenges, I can say, hand on heart, that I have never been happier. My circumstances haven't changed, but with help, I have taken on board that there is nothing wrong with me! I actually like myself now! I am worthy of being loved and I let that in and therefore I can love. I realise that happiness comes from within and not from outside. I used to feel guilty for not liking my Mum, but now I accept that she is as she is. Yes, she irritates me, but I don't have expectations and that's OK. She had her own challenges as a child and while that doesn't excuse things, it helps me to understand and know it was never about me. If by caring about her means that I love her, then I love her. So you youngsters, there is hope for you yet! As one very wise man said to me, what's there not to love about you!
What a lovely post, made my eyes tear up.
I love that there is still some good to look forward to, it really does give me hope...I've been single most of my life, find relationships very difficult, would be lovely to think I could mellow out enough to have someone lovely in my life and make it last longer than a couple of weeks!
That guilt is awful isn't it, really unsettling...so good to shake it off and be able to breathe again.
I'm so thankful for this forum, I didn't expect my original post to have brought such responses...it's been like a really good therapy session, bouncing thoughts and ideas and experiences back and forward. And it's so good to know you're not alone.
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As one very wise man said to me, what's there not to love about you!
Ju Ju thank you for this :thankyou:. That is the best Christmas present I could be given. I will write it on my heart. that's it in a nutshell.
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As one very wise man said to me, what's there not to love about you!
Ju Ju thank you for this :thankyou:. That is the best Christmas present I could be given. I will write it on my heart. that's it in a nutshell.
:yipi: :yipi: :yipi:
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Narsacissitic personality behaviour disorder wasn't diagnosed until the late 1980s. It is difficult to diagnose unless the person is observed on a continual basis.
However: I was raised to let my parents know who I was with and where we were going - no mobile phones and there wasn't land-line! Buses were regular ; like 3 every day to town and 3 back, the last one at night left 10 mins. B4 the end of the main film. Who dreamt that one up! so we had to go into the cinema to watch the end first ::)
We had to communicate otherwise we never went anywhere ::). Only 1 car per family, so we cycled everywhere.
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My mother didn't have a formal diagnosis, I doubt she thought there was any need to question her behaviour...
having had several bouts of counselling/therapy though I have to say she ticks all of the boxes...so lovely to be a disappointing child...some of the things she used to say and do were awful, spiteful and jealous!
I remember being really young (and stupid), one time there was a copy of 'The Sun' newspaper lying around in the lounge...I opened it and of course there was page 3...I said hey mum I could be a page 3 girl I have the same size boobs haha...she replied...pffft, takes more than a pair of tits...
so lovely...
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You are not disappointing kiltgirl, neither are you stupid from what I have seen of you so far in your posts. Neither am I. I am hanging on tight to Ju Ju's quote :foryou:
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I'm so glad that what has helped me helps you BJ.
I saw both a councillor and a coach. The councillor I saw face to face as she lived near. She has a medical background, specialising in sexual issues. We explored the past which helped with understanding and putting things to rest. The coach was a chap, who was one of the contributors of one of the courses DH went on. We looked more to the present. I did a 3 month course by telephone as he is an American, but have had the privilege to meet him a few times, as by coincidence he lives near my son and comes over here. Both had the same message, just coming from different angles.
So much I learnt I would love to share, but one thing I did learn is that you only take on board what you are ready for. The rest goes over your head. I have reading matter that is part of my self care program. It's amazing how different things jump out at you when you reread stuff. I am so grateful, but I sought the help I needed when I was ready. Before I was so frightened of all the anger I was suppressing and of what I would find in myself if I looked too deeply. Now I have looked, I found someone worth getting to know. The coach told me he believes we all come into this world with beautiful soul, but experience shapes our behaviour. We are not defined by our behaviour; that's not who we really are. We can choose how we behave with self awareness.
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What's happened to kiltgirl? ???
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gone :(
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:sigh: