Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: abbyH on December 06, 2016, 09:57:39 AM
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Hi everyone :D :D
Just a quick update and a gripe
Post hyst and BSO in June, after a difficult few years trying to manage heavy bleeding, hair loss, weight gain the lot!
I'm seeing Dr Panay's team - and am now on a 75mg Estrodot patch.. will be seen again in April and I guess T added then if E levels ok
I feel not great, massive anxiety depression which has eased a bit, then after putting on 75 patch (up from 50 evorel) I feel weepy, really down, black thoughts .. is this normal?
In other news my work have not been supportive - and even have told me that they 'allowed' me to go and have the operation at a really busy time - and that I should be grateful (in essence).. So far no reasonable adjustments have been made and I've actually resigned feeling that there is a hostile environment
So my question is, how have other women been treated at work following a radical hysterectomy? I was off work for 2 weeks (at the end of term last year as I work in HE) and then over the summer I went into work for a few meetings, marked essays, did a load of admin work. I went on holiday for a week and then was back at work by 1st September
I have been struggling with trying to get my HRT stable since and had lots of hospital appointments (follow ups and then two with Chelsea and Wedstminster for HRT advice) I've been told that my reference will reflect this
Help!
do I need legal advice?
Abby
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Hi Abby
Sorry things still aren't great
I'm not at my best on 75mcg either, I'm sure this dose contributes to my problems but like you I need good O levels for my testosterone gel
It seems pretty much the same for most ladies without ovaries, you'd think we'd tolerate high doses
I don't know what to suggest as I know you're really keen to try the T. Has Tibolone been offered ? I have to say the only thing that put me off was the most common side effects are hair loss and weight gain. As you know I've had hair thinning too but because we don't always know what's caused it we won't know if taking something new will help or worsen the condition. There's every chance that low O and T have caused your hair loss so adding that back in could help or the T could make it worse.
Sounds like your boss isn't being professional. I worked for the NHS when I had mine and I told them I'd be back at week 7, they sent me to occ health who suggested a phased return (I was ok to go back to normal hours ) but my boss said go with occ health
Is it ACAS the help group for work related problems ? If not google who can help and give them a call telling them how your employer is dealing with you
X
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Hi Abby,
Sorry, I don't have any experience of hysterectomy and returning to work, but you might find some useful information in these new guidelines:
http://www.fom.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/Guidance-on-menopause-and-the-workplace-v6.pdf
Personally, I think you have been badly treated and I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to do what you have managed so soon after a major operation.
Good luck and don't forget to let us know how you get on!
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Thank you
Yes am thinking about contacting ACAS and also the HR department in the organisation where I work
thank you ladies!
Abby
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The Company should find means to accommodate your health needs, to be told that you were 'allowed' time off, well I would want that in writing - what does it say in your Contract of Emplyment? Get a Union involved?
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Hi, Abby!
As Annie says, us ladies without ovaries often seem to struggle on higher doses of estrogen and this can clearly be seen if you head on over to Hystersisters and read the many posts there about this very thing! I have VERY strong feelings about us becoming estrogen dominant although many say this is not the cause of why we feel so bad (mainly in the UK where we don't have much of an idea about 'balance' when it comes to HRT after ovary removal). But it makes perfect sense - we have NO ovaries, thus are producing only a tiny smidge of progesterone and testosterone from our adrenals and stored fat etc. This can quickly get overridden by the higher doses of estrogen that get lobbed at us as professionals here ASSUME that we need more, when I fact it's BALANCE that we need. This particularly affects us mentally - and only us ladies with no ovaries know what this feels like! :(
It is also very important (and I speak from much experience here - especially over the last couple of months or so) to be allowed to stabilise on one dose even if it is not meeting your needs quite for alleviating your symptoms for at least one month. I was 'rushed up' into increasing my gel dose as my levels were low and it was a disaster! Subsequently, my Consultant then cut my patch dose which I started after having to stop the gel to 25mcg which was nothing short of torture. I had to endure another hormone crash! There is only so many times we can endure this before we become seriously unglued, and I think Consultant's etc. need to realise this and proceed carefully. It puts a huge strain on our adrenals if they are constantly forced into action with all this tinkering about, and can cause horrible symptoms of increased anxiety as well as all the physical issues. Think about it - the adrenals release adrenaline and when over stressed, this is going to make you feel really jittery and anxious. Fluctuations up and down can make you feel like this too as the adrenals have no idea whether they're coming or going!
And then of course, we get passed to mental health as no one has any idea why were not responding 'well' to treatment! I've read back over many old posts here of ladies who have no ovaries, and apart from a very few they have all pretty much been in desperate straits and have been up and down like a fiddler's elbow on their dosages. And then they stop posting......it makes me so sad and angry!
My advice to you would be to NOT be rushed. Go back down to the 50mcg patch and hold there for at least a month. And then titrate up by using a half of a 25mcg patch. Yes, we are THAT sensitive and if this is what it takes then your specialist will have to accommodate this in order to get you where you need to be if you want to try the Testosterone. I'll be sticking to my guns on this myself in the future, I can tell you! >:(
As Annie says, I am also sorely tempted by the Tibolone as this provides a replicated balance of all 3 hormones, and this may be just what we need. I have done a lot of research into feedback from TAH/BSO and BSO ladies of using this, and for those that tolerate it it seems to be far superior as far as mood/libido/wellbeing than seperate estradiol and testosterone (and of course they won't give TAH ladies progesterone as 'we don't need it' even though it helps to balance the energising effect of estrogen which often pushes us into anxiety and jitteriness).
On the work front, this is just disgusting! I think you have a fairly clear cut case for constructive dismissal there, and I would research this as effectively you were forced to quit. Speaking to ACAS about this would be a very good bet.
As always, sending you biggest hugs! :hug: xxxxxx
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You explain things so much better than me Tempest !
I can be your forum warm up til you make an appearance each day !! X
Edit:
I forgot to mention that Jan to June this year I introduced 2 new additions to my 75mcg estradot
I added b12 and utrogestan 100mg daily and I felt better ! Not brilliant, but definitely better, well woman nurse told me I must stop progesterone immediately as I have no uterus. So, I asked why I wasn't having the progesterone drained from me by Drs since my hysterectomy, she couldn't answer but she said she reckons the prog opposed the 75mcg oestrogen and reduced its effect which made me feel better (that supports our theory)
A month later she calls me in to say I'm a good candidate for testosterone or Tibolone but our surgery won't entertain the idea. I said "hold on, Tibolone will convert some to progesterone and you said I can't have it?" She apologised and said she's investigated it and it won't harm us plus it's prompted her to go to a meno conference in November where she will learn more about this particular subject. I haven't seen her since so I don't know what she learned
X
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Annie, is that the same thing as a 'fluffer?!? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Omg :veil: :rofl:
I can be whatever you want me to be Tempest ! X
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Ahem.....!!! :o :rofl: :rofl:
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thanks for all this.. for me now its anxiety/deep depressive mood/suicidal thoughts.. massive hair loss (80%) and insomnia!!!
and now I'm thinking prior to the op I actually felt better!
Tempest, I will go back down to the 50 I think.. I felt ok on that.. But without a guide (next appointment in April) very difficult to feel im doing the right thing
I too have some Uterogestan from before, and maybe will start adding that to see if things improve?
my B12 levels are ok but it cant hurt to take, also D
As for work and how they've responded, yes I think some action needed..
Abby x
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Abby be careful adding prog to 50oestrogen as it will lower the oestrogen even more
Try snipping your patch gradually maybe without the prog OR keep the dose patch you're on plus the prog
Where is your hair loss ? All over OR top of scalp ? Mines both so could be a mix of female patter HL and low T
Ps you can't overdose on b12 as you'll pee out excess so don't be afraid to give yourself a boost
X
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Abby, it's very important to only do one thing at a time (go and take a look at the advice on this over at Hystersisters). I would still try to stabilise on the 50mcg for a month and then reassess.
The Tibolone works in an entirely different way - it is in fact a form of steroid, not strictly hormones. It has a unique action via the pituitary and therefore 'balances' itself via this mode of action. Remember - balance is important!
The motto over at Hystersisters is start low and go slow, only adding one thing at a time and allowing time for each change to settle. I know only too well how it feels to feel absolutely desperate - I have so many days like this myself but our bodies are a very sophisticated piece of kit so require very gentle handling.
Incidentally, did you mention your thyroid antibodies at your appointment? I think extra input there would be invaluable too.
And try not to take on too much stress if you can - this is notorious for knocking out hormone balance, especially in us oopherectomised ladies. I posted about this recently. I know I had a hellish few days just last week when I had extra stress with family issues. Please try to be gentle with yourself! :hug:
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Hi Ladies
I hear you then on the start low go slow mantra.. So going back to 50 for a few months..
Hair loss/deterioration. All over but especially the front/sides and underneatth. What I'm left with is dry, flyaway very very fine strands.. And I used to have long glossy thick thick hair (even a year ago it was substantially better than now)
it seems to have got worse since the op in June and no better since taking E...
My antibodies are low right now and have decreased since taking Dessicated thryoid which I will continue to do
Its all so confusing!
I just want to feel better, and not want to kill myself and have my hair back
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You need anti-depressant treatment - do have a chat with your GP. Although your symptoms may well be hormonally led if you are suicidal then seek treatment for that as a separate issue. Otherwise you will have difficulties seeing the wood for the trees! :bighug:
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It comes and then goes.. On day 3 of the patch I feel worse.. but by day 4 I feel fine... I want to see if things settle down on a tolerable dose of E.. perhaps just sticking to the 50 patch for now and seeing how that goes.. The increase (to 75) seemed to make me feel worse...
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HORMONES >:( ::) but if you feel suicidal you need to tell your GP!
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Ok.. I will do.. I am due to see her soon...
Abby x
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Hi Abby
I had a total hysterectomy and ovaries removed 18 months ago. I too work in education. I did similar time off to you, went back for the last 2 weeks then had the summer off, but like you worked most of the way through it and while I was off for the 6 weeks after my op!!!
Went back in September and as its a stressful job the hormones went mad! Ended up having a total breakdown and being put on antidepressants! Which at the time I needed as it was a 3 month waiting list to see the menopause specialist. Was off work for 4 months waiting for appointments and finally getting them,. The meno specialist told me that some women suffered more emotionally and some suffered more physical symptoms, I was on the emotional sign and she recommended that I stayed on the low dose of anti depressants and tried testosterone.
Wish I knew all this prior to my op as none of this explained to me and if its wasn't for the great info and advise in this forum I would never have known.
My headteacher was initially supportive but then obviously lost her patience with me and basically wanted me out. I managed 6 weeks where I was made to feel useless and the worst teacher ever but no support given, so eventually defeated I threw the towel in and resigned. After talking to my union I found out this was a mistake as once I had resigned there was nothing more they could do. But I couldn't stay a moment longer so had to resign, but this is how these headteacher a get away with it!!!
The legal team of my Union were useless too, asking me why did I want to drag this up, just forget it and move on with my life!!! Not sure why we pay a subscription for them!!
Anyway I wrote a letter to the HR department as I had kept a record of all the incidents I had encountered. But again nothing from them.
Anyway after starting testosterone never felt better and now have a new job at a fab school where I am appreciated and have a very supportive staff and headteacher. So there is light at the end of the tunnel I hope for you.
Take care
Nikki xxxx
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I have these feelings too Abby, on and off. I can't discount that this is now a mental health issue as well as being tied up with my hormones for me, as much as I struggle to accept this at times. I feel in my case it's because it's all been so traumatic fighting to be heard and treated after surgery, so eventually I just cracked under the strain of it all (and mid life issues that have cropped up in general)!
I now see a Psychiatrist, who is so much better for me to deal with with these issues than my GP! It's nothing to be ashamed of and please DO ask for help like CLKD says. I'm off to see him again on Thursday actually, to speak about possibly starting drug treatment in the New Year (it's not a definite - we may try therapy instead or as well as drug treatment. This is the beauty of being referred to a Psychiatrist at your local CMHT as they have more options available to better suit your needs).
And NEVER be afraid of trying crisis services - I have learned that I need to pick up the phone and use my local one (a great service called First Crisis, you will have similar in your area or there are national ones) when I get very low. I've used them a lot over the last few months (they help me get through the days when I'm not on here very much - this is when you can bank on it that I'm having a really tough time. I can't usually do forums when I'm very anxious or feeling low. So now you know where I go to)!
Sending you so many hugs - please know that you're not alone in how you feel. I may have been joking around a little earlier but that is rather rare for me! CLKD will tell you that a few months back, I needed extra hand holding to cope even when Hubby was away for the night and she was one of the lovely ladies who stepped up to help me out then. You deserve all the help you need right now, so that you can start to feel better about life again. So do reach out and see your GP.....promise? xxxxx
I too feel like I'm 'drowning in it' right now, so I can thoroughly relate. It just goes round and round in your head doesn't it, desperately trying to find answers to fix yourself! This wears you down and this is why I have finally admitted that I need extra help and support right now
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Hi, Nikki!
What an awful time you've had with your employer too! Do you know, it has gladdened my heart so much that you've shared that you are now feeling so much better and that you have a new job where you are appreciated (please excuse me, but did I spot your story over at The Hysterectomy Association forum too? It rings a lot of bells)!
I'm also very encouraged that the T has made a big difference to you too. It's an elusive thing (for me and Abby, or so it feels right now), and I think this will probably help both Abby and I too greatly but we need to creep our E up a bit to get there (Abby - don't panic! We WILL get there and I'm having to take it slow too, remember! It's about letting our bodies cope with change a little at a time).
Also Abby - viz. the hair. I'm pretty sure you WILL see an improvement over time as your E levels stabilise and improve. I know when I had my son I lost a LOT of hair when my E dropped suddenly after delivery. It doesn't mean you won't be able to have T. It takes on average 3 months to start seeing improvements in this area on a stable dose of E, so don't go tinkering around too much! I would also speak to your GP about how your hair loss is impacting you mentally and ask if you may have an evaluation with a trichologist as you have lost so much of it. It's worth getting as much input as you can - again, it's OK to ask, you deserve help to start feeling better again in every way.
Let's make a plan together to move forward in 2017, ok? We can support each other as we're pretty much in the same position right now. And take great encouragement too from Nikki's post - it can and WILL get better!!
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Lovely words from both Nikki and Tempest, you girls really have a way with your words
We REALLY do need a separate section here on the forum I think for a few issues:
Hysterectomy
No ovaries
Hair loss
To name a few, someone with no hair loss and kind of plodding along (again I'm rubbish with words and not taking anything away from menopausal ladies with ovaries and hair) but these losses can and do really knock the stuffing out of us at a time meno is stripping us of so much more alongside it
I visited HysterSisters again last night, the layout of their forum just isn't making it easy for me to navigate round it but I feel connected obviously because of my history, it's a shame , maybe it's because I use my phone
Hi Nikki (forgot to say hi!)
What testosterone are you on ? Testogel or Testim ?
X
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Totally, totally agree Annie! I've asked our Admin. Emma twice for a section for ladies who have experienced hysterectomy/oopherectomy and so far, no joy....... :'( We could certainly do with stickied threads for all 3!
Hystersisters is hellish in layout, I agree! It's hard to navigate and hasn't got the 'warmth' in appearance that MM has. It's all a bit bleak, really! I have to limit my time over there as A) I get frustrated that we don't have some of the options available to us that they do Stateside (and yes, I would pay privately to get some of these) B) I feel terribly for the 'have and have nots' over there in the US as some women are having to choose between filling their HRT prescriptions (the cost of which is astronomical) or feed their families (which reminds us in the UK how lucky we are really, and therefore kinda cancels out A))and C) there is a LOT of desperation over there (but then again, I have to remind myself that the number of women who have had these operations in the US must number in the millions and this is but a small number who are having a hard time, in the main.
Talking of which, NEVER, EVER be tempted to join or visit an anxiety forum! Nope, never do it!! If you want to come away way, way worse with even greater anxiety, then this is the way to go. Ask me how I know...... :o
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I looked ironically on Saturday Tempest. Nipped in and nipped out
What struck me (and scared the life out of me) is that they're still suffering. Surely they are on medication ? I read some stories on social anxiety and my could I relate 😢
HysterSisters were informative when I needed extra reassurance about this 2nd menopause I'd been told I'm going through plus the disappearing ovaries , it turned out many in there had both too
X
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Oh, indeed! I have read quite a few posts there about the second menopause - it's a widely acknowledged phenomenon there! A typical pattern seems to be that even ladies who have had their ovaries removed pre menopause, did no HRT and we're fine for years or who used HRT, came off it and then did fine for years then went into menopause AGAIN years later (usually at the age when they would have gone through natural menopause).
If you tried to tell your GP/Specialist this one in the UK, they would truly think you were bonkers but this is REAL! Ive had many thoughts about how this could be happening, and I think it comes down to those pesky adrenals again. There has to be a shift in function with ageing, another upheaval. Maybe the adrenals were able to keep up with hormonal demands, and then with ageing they started to struggle to do this or this is an age related normal downshift in the adrenal 's functioning. Who knows?!
Ditto with the disappearing ovaries! Hysterectomy - woman retains ovaries and goes for a scan. No ovaries to be found. Zilch! Nada! I read one thread where they had to painstakingly go over the theatre notes of the original surgery to make sure they weren't removed, and they definitely WEREN'T as the surgeon had taken photos during the procedure and pre suturing at the end of the procedure clearly showing the ovaries intact! Where do they go?!? Do they dissolve, get absorbed by the body, what??? There are so many weird and wonderful things happening that Gynae's. and Endocrinologists have no idea about, and it is REAL.
By the way, without thread jacking completely or taking away from the OP, I have just received an appointment in today to see the surgeon who did my oopherectomy (my Gynaecologist for over 10 years) as since I have started HRT (coincidentally) I have been experiencing increasing pelvic pain in the last 3 months. Clear for UTI's, no prolapse that GP can tell. No history of endo. I'm hoping this is just more adhesions (of which I have many) and not, dare I say it, ovarian remnant syndrome. I have very, very dense adhesions from many prior pelvic surgeries and my surgeon (who is one of the best for laparoscopic procedures in the UK) was still a bit leary at taking my ovaries laparoscipally but wanted to avoid yet another laparotomy (I'd had 3 previously).
I only phoned his secretary last Friday, and my appointment is for 9th January, so that was very quick. Me being me, I'm worrying quite a bit now because he IS seeing me so quickly! (I'm never happy, am I)?!? :o
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The thing for me - when I had depression I thought every day 'it will be better tomorrow' until I was so ill I couldn't move from the house :sigh: - in fact, my GP saw me walking in the street and phoned me to visit the Surgery, he could see by my posture that I was slipping back. I learned to visit him B4 I got too bad to knock the symptoms on the head!
Going along to discuss options with the GP opens the door for that discussion. I don't tell many people that I take medication, unless they 'need' to know or are reluctant to try tablets, then I wade in with my experiences. For me it was 6 months B4 I realised that I felt 'better'.
At this time of year surgeries will be fuller as people realise that C.mas/New Year are close ……..
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I can relate to the 'it'll be better tomorrow' totally, CLKD. I'm so very grateful that I now have the Psychiatrist I do (he's very empathetic and thorough), but boy have I been stubborn! I was also encouraged by Nikki's post on going on the low dose of an AD and how it helped her go cope and how she has moved on.
I don't think I've made the best decisions at times this year, because I refused to believe that I was that low and couldn't necessarily fix myself quickly or completely with HRT or alone. If it helps as a 'bridge' at least then I'm personally open to it. If I need something long term, then so be it. I only have one life, and I want the best from it. Like the old cliche says, life ain't a rehearsal!
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Hi again
Yes I used to regularly post on hysterectomy association -- another good site, but we seemed to have all moved on now.
Thank you for saying about my kind words - I am currently retraining to be a counsellor, so these words are great to hear!!
I forgot to mention that I went through lots of counselling, I found CBT really good and also went on a self esteem course which really helped. But I think the tesosterone was the key, I am on testogel, along with 2mg of sandrena, vagifem and ovestim cream!!! I am throwing everything at this menopause! ;D
But yes I look back to myself this time last year and I was not in a good place. It would have been nice to have some counselling pre op and also a meeting with the menopause specialist so I had an idea of what options were available. I was given no HRT for 6 weeks in which time my poor body didn't knew what had happened. My doctors surgery tried their best but weren't knowledgeable and until I stamped my feet about having to go on the sick they finally sorted out me an appointment with the menopause specialist which took 2 months to come through.
I have had hair loss too - but wasn't sure if this was down to stress or menopause. Tried that Plantur shampoo but didn't find it helped.
But yes keep going, use this site for info and fight to get the right medication you need. I feel all hystercotomy with ovaries removed and especially surgical menopause like me, should be given the option of testosterone straight away. You should be given the hormones you had before your op to help your body adjust.
I could go on and on, but honestly it does get better if you get the right medication for you, and we are all different so it's a bit of trial and error, but hopefully you will get there.
I have changed my attitude in that I can only do my best and if its not good enough then so be it and most of the time it's other people's opinion and their problem so let them think what they want! ;)
Keep in touch and keep going!
Nikki xxxx
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Tempest
Try not to worry, easy for me to say, I'm glad he's seeing you quick, you will hopefully get answers for your pain, I guess he wants to see you quite soon to he can see exactly what is /isn't happening. I've never thought about adhesions, I've had 2 laparoscopies and the hysterectomy and 2 D&Cs but I haven't ever noticed any pain there apart from IBS when it's been at it's worst
CLKD
I understand what you're saying. I think the problem with me is ive always been a mind over matter person (please, no one take that personally, that's just how I have coped through life) so many things have happened in my life my philosophy was always to give it time. My family have no history of anxiety or depression so will have no experience of medication or symptoms plus I only have 2 brothers left so definitely can't talk to them
If I go for help with this social anxiety (I have give it time, and the mind isn't coping with the matter) like you I won't broadcast it. I don't want anyone in my normal life seeing or treating me any differently
I have always acknowledged mental health and never mocked it, unfortunately I do think some people in my real life have played on it so as never to have to work but I also know of others that are struggling to get through each day with it
Can I ask about BBs ? Once you have taken one, how quick does it work to regulate the heartbeat ? Or don't they work like that ?
X
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I thought I recognised your story, Nikki! :)
Thank you so much for sharing what has helped you, and yes - I couldn't agree more. We DO need the hormones restored that we had previously for our wellbeing! I went a whole year with no HRT whatsoever following my surgery as I naively believed my surgeon who said I didn't need any! I cannot believe now that I put myself through that (I'm seeing him again in January and whilst I trust him implicitly as an excellent surgeon, boy is he going to get a huge telling off)!
Thank you too so much for your encouragement, it really helps ladies like us who are struggling. It's wonderful that you're training to be a counsellor - I truly believe that those who have fought their own struggles make the best and most empathetic counsellors and therapists. I think you'll do just marvellously! :)
I hope you were taking notes on the Testogel, Annie! I wonder if there is any difference between the Testosterone gels? I know we've compared performance of various ERT's but I don't think there has been any comparisons in performance between these (probably because so few ladies can GET this treatment. Grrrr)!! Maybe you can get some tips from Nikki on how to progress with the pea blob?!? ;)
I would be a candidate for a Testosterone implant (my Consultant is BIG on implants) eventually.......But I would want to make sure of the dose and suitability by using the gel for some time first. I think this is still a little way off for me, though!
I'm hoping it is just adhesions obviously, even though the blighters have caused me myriad problems in the past. It's much less worrying than the alternative, I have to say! :o
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So, am I right in thinking.. (you ladies rock by the way, such good responses and answers and advice, I thank each and every one of you)
that I should be able to get testosterone now (nearly 6 months after surgery) not in a further 6 months when my E levels are 'up'?
I was basically hurled out of the operating room and back to my life with no counselling, guidance or help with my new surgical menopausal state. My consultant even told me that because I was 'so close' to menopause naturally, I wouldn't need HRT!
Hair loss is a big thing.. and mine has nearly disappeared. I am horrified and it's really afffected my self esteem and sense of femininity. I'm going to get a wig until it grows back.. but until my hormones are balanced and stable, I doubt it will
hugs to all... let's support one another as Tempest says..
Abby xx
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Abby I stumbled across what seems like a miracle today of a bespoke human hair enhancer maker with incredibly affordable prices. I'll send you the link in pm
Please be careful of introducing testosterone if you have low levels of oestrogen, the T will be dominant and could make matters worse for you, I've increased my blob as a tube was lasting ages and already I'm not sure if it's the right thing to do (a blogger said pea size makes the tube last ages and to get it to last 10 days try the size of a 20p on finger)
On this new dose acrylic nails are coming off (I guess oily skin) , my hair is greasy day after washing and I've got spots !
Why is nothing so damn straightforward in any of this ?!
Tempest I will investigate to see if there is a difference
X
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84pmol ... is that low?
1.9 T.... (I'll have to get the reference ranges I don't have them right now)
Abby
I will check out the hair lady for sure!
xx
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Is that your oestrogen Abby ? I can't remember when my last E was taken but it was 774 pmol (72-529)
My T was 0.9 nmol (0.00-1.9)
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Yes that's my E - as of a few weeks ago (before the patch started on 18th Nov)
my hair has got steadily worse.. it just must be an imbalance between hormones but how to regulate it? at this rate i will have no hair soon :(
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You have to get E levels up Abby
Please don't introduce T until you do
X
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So good to read on here about others experience of hormones affecting their mental health. I'm convinced my mental health issues are linked to the peri menopause but the cmh nurse I see now due in my eyes to the menopause, doesn't agree ! They say its anxiety,well yes it is but how did I manage before peri started and cant now !? They cant answer me . Plus it goes off the scale when my periods due even on hrt !
I know it sounds awful saying its good to read others are also suffering, but I mean it in that its good to know I'm not alone and I'm not in denial or imagining itxx
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abbyH - I agree with Annie0710 - that is very low oestrogen and you must increase before starting T!! Are you post-meno?
Hurdity x
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Yes. I'm in Surgical.. Had BSo and TAH in June
I'm on a 75mg patch (Estrodot) and am coping ok... a few up and down moments on it
taking 3000 mg Primrose to help hair
but still noticing dramatic thinning/loss in last 6 months
So in 6 months on a patch my levels will be ok to add T?
Wish I'd started the patch when I left hospital! but wasn't advised anything
Abby
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I'm awful for remembering to take vitamins etc but I read that omega (sure omega 6 but hard to find so bought omega 3-6-9) is said to reduce the DHT conversion from testosterone. I think it's reported to give it 6 months to see improvements (if any)
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Oh dear me, Abby! You MUST increase the estrogen before adding any T! So you're sticking with the 75mcg? How are you finding it - do you feel better than the 50's? I find on day one of patch change of the 50's I feel super, and by mid day 2 my mood is in the dirt again. Hence why I was a happy camper yesterday! The ups and downs on the patches are a killer for me at the moment, to be honest it's really starting to worry me! :'(
I'll be speaking to my Psychiatrist about this tomorrow (he's pretty clued up and understanding about hormonal issues), as it's making me a bit of a basket case. My GP refuses to entertain any changes until I've seen my specialist in January. If this rollercoaster continues, I may have to go back to the gel as I felt my levels were better and more stable on that and I'll have to try to work round the rash issue by trying it on my arms to see if I tolerate it better there. No way can I stand another 6 weeks of this if it doesn't settle - my Hubby doesn't know what version of me he's getting from day to day! Also, I've hardly slept at all since I've been on the patches, and I slept fine on the gel. :(
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Aw Tempest !
Is suggesting pill form of hrt a bad idea ?
I was as happy as a pig in poop on elleste solo(started on 1mg then within weeks went to max 2mg) soon after my hysterectomy in 1999 until 2012 when everything went wrong
I've read pill form isn't ideal 5yrs + but maybe that would give you relief and consistency ?
My E levels haven't been tested since I've used patches but have always been excellent on elleste solo 2mg
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Thank you, Annie! I'm thinking it may be a possibility. I get the feeling that my Consultant tries to avoid pills like the plague but if it's needed, it's needed.
How long did it take you to settle on the patches, and did you get ups and downs initially and if so, did they settle? I'm very careful to make sure my patch is applied smoothly with no wrinkles too. Not sure if this is just an 'early days' issue or something else going on. Transdermals in general have been a nightmare for me!
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I had a nightmare when I changed from pill to patch
Having been on elleste solo pill it seemed logical to try their patch. Within a couple of hours massive migraine. Rang GP next day and they said remove and not take any hrt til they say. On 4th day violently sick and headache vanished (2x trips to A&E too)
Then I tried evorel I think, didn't stick well so tried estradot
A lot of 2012-2016 is a bit of a blur to be honest Tempest meno wise. I've had highs and lows during this time with no reflection of the hrt I was on . I can't say I felt any different on estradot , the only reason I've stayed on them is because they stick well and no professional so far has known what to do with me
Apart from the social anxiety I am in a place I'm ok with and could settle for but I remember around Nov 2014 I felt like I'd turned a really good corner (still on elleste solo 2mg)
I felt like my old self I think but was short lived
I live in hope a magic formula is created though
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Oh my goodness, Annie! That sounded like a nightmare with the sickness and headaches. Wee soul!
I wish they could come up with a magic formula - none of us would be here then! I like to think at some time in the future, people will look back on how we treat menopause and think how crude our efforts at hormone replacement were because things have by then moved on. Maybe then someone will have discovered a way to bypass the menopause completely! Or else in the very distant future as a species we will evolve so that it's not part of our biological ageing.
To be honest, I wish personally I hadn't even started HRT. Maybe my Consultant Gynaecologist was right when he said I could manage without it. I went over a year without, and only really went on it because depression was starting to cripple me and none of the AD's my GP had tried had worked. And because I panicked because there was a lot coming out in the media at that time ahead of the new guidelines being released about how HRT is needed to maintain good health. Mainly in the Daily Mail, I think. I don't read it now (a move in the right direction, I think)! I had joint pain for a few months during this time, but this had started to ease quite a bit. I was sleeping through the night, no hot flushes. My hair was good, skin only a little dry as to be expected with ageing. I also felt more like 'myself'. On HRT I always feel weirdly unlike myself and a bit strangely 'possessed, if that makes any sense.(Crikey, that makes me sound like a weirdo)! :o
Since all this HRT experimentation, I have felt much worse in so many ways. The best I have felt really during this time was when I was on a nominal dose of 0.3mg Premarin and when I evened out again on nothing at all following my hormone crash when I had to come off the Estrogel the first time after the chest pains developed. During both these times I had no mood swings, and although I had developed hot flushes for the first time I felt they were 'rebound' after stopping the Estrogel abruptly and they started to lessen. But then I went back on HRT again. :(
I couldn't go through another hormone crash again right now as I feel too fragile mentally, but if my Psychiatrist is able to help me with an AD that suits (he's thinking Venlafaxine) then I may very well try to come off HRT again completely in the future (with the exception of vaginal estrogen as needed - but so far I haven't needed this. Touch wood)!. I know it safeguards bones etc. etc. but seriously - this whole battle has taken me to such dark places this last year and I still feel totally pants. I don't think I can get my estrogen levels high enough that I can tolerate to get the Testosterone, and for me delivery methods that fluctuate madly are a killer. I'd need an IV of estrogen strapped to my arm drip feeding the stuff for me to ever feel stable, I think! :o
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It's awful isn't it ?
Only recently I've thought too about maybe trying with nothing
As Ive continuously been on hrt I know no different but there's been 2 very short term occasions I've been without it
First time: I can't remember the year, possibly sept 2014 (wow 2months after that I felt great !) we went to Spain for 11 nights and when we unpacked I realised I'd left my hrt pills at home ! I panicked but honestly felt NO different that holiday
Second time: during the awful pill to patch saga , April 2015, we were going on good Friday to our annual big family meet up at Yarmouth and the Friday travelling was the 4th day of migraine and the motion of travelling in the car brought the pain in my head to a level I couldn't cope with so OH detoured to Norwich A&E , they gave me anti sickness pills but before we could get to the pharmacy I'd puked, headache immediately vanished and I got to the campsite and no one could believe how well I was (OH had forewarned family that I'd probably not be mixing but still be there), Tempest I partied that weekend like I was a teenager again and felt great, it was only fear of the unknown if I remember correctly that I decided to go back on my pills til I could sort a different patch out
I know my 2 episodes weren't for long and so I can't really say either way but I do wonder. I'm just scared of some crash like you describe and that's where I think maybe better the devil you know.
One day I might get so fed up of this battle I do give it a try going alone
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