Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: GypsyRoseLee on November 28, 2016, 05:11:01 PM
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Hello All
Haven't been around much lately. Overall, have been feeling much better these last couple of months. Not sure if it's down to Prof Studd's regime, or 100mg of Sertraline (my GP thinks it's both).
Also, my cycle has recently lengthened to 29/30 days, from 24/25 days. But period getting very, very light, more like spotting really and only lasting 2-3 days.
Last month I had been feeling fine for a few weeks, but then had a nasty blip as I came to being mid cycle, and it lasted nearly a week. Felt the awful flatness, anxiety etc. Then it lifted suddenly, and I felt really good again - right up to my period starting, then through my period and out the other side. Felt better than I have in years, infact.
Then suddenly, as I reached mid cycle again (day 12 to be exact) my mood really slumped again, and have been feeling rotten again since last Tuesday. Just really low, anxious, no pleasure in anything.
I wondered if anyone has any ideas about what is going on? I would hazard that, despite my 4 pumps of gel per day, my body is still reacting to the drop in oestrogen and rise in progesterone as I go into the 2nd half of my cycle?
If this is so, I am totally at a loss as to how to help myself anymore than I already am doing???
Also, I am due to take Utrogestan for the first time in 3 months, next week (my GP said I could go long cycle, as I still have a light period every month anyway, and because I felt dreadful on it, and during the withdrawal, the last time I took it back in August).
I am dreading taking it next week when I am already feeling horrible as it is. My own period should start roughly on Dec 12th, so the withdrawal bleed from the Utro should coincide with my own bleed (Prof Studd advised I try and coincide the two like this).
I did this coincided bleed for the first time back in August, and I felt really awful. The first time Utrogestan has reacted so badly for me. My GP thought it was because I was adding Utrogestan at the very same time my own progesterone was rising prior to my period starting. I felt like I was about to burst into a million pieces.
When my bleed came, it was no heavier than my normal very light ones nowadays, despite 'adding' Utrogestan.
I just don't know what to do, or where to go from here?
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Hi and thanks *menomale*. Of course you can call me GRL, most posters do.
I really don't think it's the Sertraline causing the problem, as it's since I started taking it back in June that I have slowly started to improve. I also started sleeping so much better since I started taking it, too.
But I think you're right in that 4 pumps probably still isn't enough to fully control the hormonal fluctuations I am having. Prof Studd said if you are progesterone intolerant, then you can't tolerate the CHANGES in progesterone levels, rather than the actual level itself. When, when, when will they bloody start to calm down??? My periods are still regular but SO light nowadays. Surely the end can't be far off?
I did try the BCP last year, but couldn't tolerate the synthetic progesterone in it. Couldn't tolerate the progesterone phase in Femoston either.
I hate my own body for doing this to me.
Glad you are able to manage your intolerance better, by cutting down to 2 days. Do you take it for 25, or 12 days?
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HORMONES >:(. Knowing that the feelings go away doesn't help at the time does it GRL. :sigh:
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Hi CLKD
It's so frustrating, as just as I think I'm on the home stretch, something trips me up again.
I did ask my GP about a hysterectomy, but she said it wouldn't happen because 'physically' I don't have any problems.
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You'll be into menopause …….. thoroughly! But will you require progesterone which seems to be the bothersome part of HRT?
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No, if you don't have a womb, then you don't need progesterone.
Apparently it isn't so much progesterone itself causing me issues. It's the changes in its levels which cause the nastiness. If it would just stay the same level, then I would be okay.
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Do I assume then that your own Hormones are joining in to upset the levels?
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Yes, I think they must be. Last month I felt great, then hit a week-long rough patch from Days 12-18. Then felt great for another few weeks, until the exact same thing happened this month on Day 11.........and 6 days later, I am still struggling.
I am on 4 pumps, but it doesn't look like it can completely control the fluctuations I am still getting. Neither can 100mg of Sertraline.
So sick of it all.
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I bet you are! If the Sertraline is easing symptoms stick with it. When do you go for a discussion with your prescribing practioner? or maybe speak with a Pharmacist?
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I am certainly better since starting Sertraline. It has really improved my sleeping, which had become dreadful.
It does make me feel quite tired at times, and a bit 'dreamy' but over these last couple of months I have felt much, much better. Lots of days of just feeling 'happy' again.
I need to see my GP for another script sometime this month. I'm not sure if increasing the dose is the answer though, because it does seem to work.
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ADs aren't a cure but a way of enabling us to function. Sometimes I feel 'hung over' ::) but it's preferable to what I suffered previously.
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Yes, I agree. Feeling more tired is infinitely better to how dreadful I have felt at times.
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After all our indepth investigations into our hormone patters we could probably get jobs with MI5.
I saw an endocrinologist last week and she said if my symptoms were all worse middle of cycle (mine are really bad Days 10-20) then it's from my own oestrogen being too high due to the two peaks. If oestrogen makes you feel better though then it may be the progesterone peak in the 2nd half that is affecting you.
Glad the Sertraline is helping and maybe the every other day Utrogestan is worth a try like Menomale as then you're not having drastic peaks and falls with it. Or if it is your own progesterone that is too high then it may even it out or provide a more therapeutic dose if it is the oestrogen surging. At least you're getting closer with having some good days!
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Hi GypsyRoseLee (I will not call you "GRL" because I HATE calling members by their initials rather than their forum name and never do so!!!! ::) )
So sorry to hear you are still having problems. If your cycle is a bit erratic ie sometime 23-24 days and sometimes 29-30 days then you can't tell when your hormones are dropping except in retrospect - ie you can't necessarily attribute mood changes to one particular hormone. In a short cycle then Day 10 could well be ovulation when the oestrogen levels crashes after the pre-ovulatory peak but if your cycle is longer then it can't be due to that. Oestrogen does then rise again and then gradually falls during the last week before menstruation. Does Studd think you are sensitive both to the rise in progesterone following ovulation ( which would be at its peak one week following ovulation) and the rapid drop - rather than the progesterone itself? Most women who suffer from the prog itself get things like bloating headaches, fatigue etc, but that rapid drop gives rise to that classic pms of tension, headache, anxiety, irritability?
Pity that the 4 pumps of gel do not suppress you cycle - has he suggested an increase?
As I've said before, I am not familiar with symptoms of very high oestrogen as, if this did happen to me prior or during peri-menopause I was blissfully unaware as I did not attribute my symptoms to anything - until I had started missing periods for several months!
I can't remember but did you consider a Mirena along with very high oestrogen dose - both to suppress ovulation and protect the lining from excess oestrogen? I do hope you feel OK on the utrogestan - are you taking vaginally or orally?
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity
Really nice to hear from you again.
Up until 2 months ago my cycle had been 24/25 days mostly. Then these last two months, without using Utro, it has got longer 29/30 days.
Prof Studd did say that it is the actual fluctuations which cause the upset. And this seems to tie in with my mood crashing mid cycle, and me feeling awful for the next week, these last 2 months.
Between times I have felt really good, almost a bit dreamy, how I used to feel pre ovulation back before peri Menopause. But I don't know how much is the high dose oestrogen and how much can be attributed to taking an AD?
I have had the Mirena in the past, but it disagreed with me and gave me permanent PMS for the 9 months I had it in. So I am very reluctant to try it, and Prof Studd advised against it.
The last time I took Utro was back in August, and for the first time I used it vaginally and felt it really adversely affected my mood. I wonder if taking it vaginally made it too potent a dose for me?
But, one thing is sure my own cycle must still be very much in play, although my periods are extremely light.
Both these last 2 months I have suffered headaches mid cycle as my mood crashed. This month I was very bloated after my period finished, right up until mid cycle. And, I have noticed my fingers have been swollen for much of the day.
How I am feeling now (Day 19) I associate with hormonal disturbances. I feel hungry but a bit sick. I feel chilly. I feel very tearful and tense, and just can't relax. And this morning I woke just before 4am and couldn't get back to sleep which hasn't happened in a few months. So SOMETHING is happening or changing?
I just wish I knew what was going on with my body?
If I haven't improved by the start of next week I think I will have to contact Prof Studd for advice.
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I had that nausea pre-bleed. I was advised by NAPS to eat every 3 hours, throughout the day/night …….. to stop the nausea causing anxiety surges. It is due to a difference in blood sugar levels …….. once the bleed began those symptoms would go away until about 10 days pre-bleed - AWFUL :sigh: (that is, nibbling a biscuit even in the night) as well as finding slow release foods to maintain energy.
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Yes CLKD, it is exactly the same nausea I had whilst pregnant, so I know it is linked to high hormone levels. But which hormone???
It's a weird combination of hunger tinged with nausea, really odd and quite specific.
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I can't remember where in the cycle various hormones move up and down but it was in the days prior to the bleed …… then I would feel OK and forget about it until the next month :-\ - one day I had to dash into the local Chemist and ask to use their loo, she was reluctant and tried to make me go to the nearest loo - over the other side of town ::) but I then reached for a waste bin, I think she realised that I was serious :D - the nausea went away after about 20 mins. but I got so that I ate more often particularly B4 going to something stressful, i.e. shopping.
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I looked here but am none the wiser ::)
http://uk.clearblue.com/menstrual-cycles-and-ovulation
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GRL, did you at one time try continuous utro? Are you doing 200 mg now for your cycle? I wonder if a continuous lower dose would ease the ups and downs. Is 50 mg an option there? Obviously I'm no medical expert but perhaps something to discuss at your next consult.
I had the all day, every day morning sickness when I had Mirena. I know that hormonal gagging all too well. At that time, here in the US, all Mirena problems were blamed on "estrogen dominance". I think Mirena's ill effects were more complex than only estrogen dominance for me.
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Hi Lizab, lovely to hear from you. How are you at the moment?
I have never taken continuos Utro. Last year I took 200mg for 12 days a month. I think I reacted to it some months, and not others? With my mood swings it's hard to tell.
Then since March I have been on 100mg just for 7 days. Again, hit and miss. But back in August I tried taking it vaginally for the first time, and it seemed to really disagree with me. Felt like I was flying into a million bits. That was when my GP suggested only taking it long cycle, every 3 months. Said because I was having periods still anyway, my womb lining couldn't become too built up.
But, I am really struggling with anxiety now again, and wondering if just too much oestrogen? But the symptoms for high oestrogen and similar for low, and similar for high progesterone.
So very confused.
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Sounds like you body is confused also >:( - :foryou:
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I'm doing well at the moment, GRL. Thanks for asking. I am having blips now and then but they either aren't as severe or I've learned to better handle them.
Progesterone hits me differently each month as well. One constant I'm noticing is that I get bitchier in the final days of each course. Someone commented in another thread that it seems to have a cumulative effect, and I agree. Days 1-5 of progesterone are usually fantastic for me then it's downhill for the second half of the course. After I stop it, it takes a week or more of estrogen only before I feel ok again. I would like to try a lower dose continually, but I'm hesitant because of the potential cumulative effect.
It seems like in your case, if you were on a continual, you could then adjust only the estrogen and know that whatever changes you feel are the results of the change in estrogen. I know that's not really ideal for most in peri and I don't know if anyone prescribes in peri that way, but you know your circumstances are unique. I believe the main reason they do the cycling in peri is because continual can give erratic bleeding in peri, but I think I would put up with some random bleeding if it solved everything else.
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The last time I took Utro was back in August, and for the first time I used it vaginally and felt it really adversely affected my mood. I wonder if taking it vaginally made it too potent a dose for me?
Taking it vaginally results in higher systemic levels - so research has shown - because more of it is absorbed and not lost through digestion. However taking it orally means that more goes through the liver and it is the metabolic by-products which can cause some of the unpleasant progesterone side effects. Hence vaginal route recommended in such cases. So it depends on which aspect is affecting you more - the systemic progesterone itself ( including yours) or the metabolites - or both.
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity, it doesn't surprise me that you absorb more if taken vaginally.
I had quite a few nasty headaches, but mainly it affected my mood (as always). I felt so agitated, and like I was going to burst into a million pieces.
Also, my period was no heavier for having taken Utrogestan either. It was still very, very light.
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I take Utrogestan for 7 days (sometimes 6). The withdrawal bleed usually comes within 3-4 days.
I haven't taken Utrogestan since August though, after my GP suggested I only use it every 3 months as I can't tolerate it. I have still had a period every month since though (very light ones, but then my periods have been getting lighter and lighter for a year).
I have just checked my calendar and since August, every month on Day 11/12 of my cycle, I've had a nasty bout of anxiety and low mood which lasts a few days. But each month this bout has lasted longer and longer. Last month it lasted a week. This month it's been 10 days, just with a brief couple of better days Weds/Thurs this week.