Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Peroxideblader on November 28, 2016, 02:06:30 PM
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Hello I've posted on here before but I need another round of help please..I'm peri I think I'm 47 all symptoms of peri and hope to start hrt soon but I'm still so unsure with having family history of heart issues and strokes hence my delay...but my question is the one awful and lure changing thing for me is sleep deprivation..it seems majority of people can get to sleep but wake early but I want to hear from people the other way round who like me can't fall asleep no matter what it's nothing to do with tired I'm shattered and so low but when I get to bed it's like I have an adrenalin surge and I'm wide awake...for the last 3 years it's got worse jntil this last year EVERY night it's 3-4 am I eventually fall asleep. I was so ill I was prescribed zopiclone sleep tablet which I've now stopped due to addictive qualities but now I'm just on the edge..I've many other long term illnesses on top of menopause sympTom's nd I can't cope. Please please can people post who have had this type of insomnia who have found hrt has helped it's the only reason I will go on it despite the risks as sleep deprivation will kill me quicker!!!@ thank you
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I would definitely try the HRT , as sleep issues and such stress could lead to a potential heart/ stroke issues anyway.
My HRT has been upped and I am sleeping much better so far.
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Hi Peroxideblader
I'm sorry you feel so awful. Why don't you PM Dana, I'm sure she's posted about her sleeping issues and is on HRT. She seems really well informed and may be able to advise. I think she's in Oz.
I do hope you find a solution, you sound so miserable. I wish you well x
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Thanks so much I am pinning so much on hrt but read so much about it not helping but I agree the lack of sleep and my depression getting worse will cause more heart problems anyway. I've been in touch with Dana she was great but sadly the medication I've already tried and the one that might help is not available in the UK typical eh.
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Ask your GP to refer you to a Sleep Clinic - that way a pattern will traced and maybe helpful coping strategy suggested.
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Could be worth trying hrt,just bear in mind that you may have to try a few types ,there's no quick fix unfortunately. HRT did nothing for my insomnia sadly. Good luck
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There's an 8 to 10 month waiting list for a sleep clinic and that's on a good day...I have already asked but doctor doesn't think it warrants a clinic because I can sleep..yeh at 4am
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Give the Clinic a ring to see what it actually costs? The longer you leave it ………… :-\ and if when the appt. arrives you don't need it, someone else will do!
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Hi Peroxideblader,
I had both sleep onset (falling asleep) and sleep maintenance (staying asleep) problems before I started HRT. I am 49, also in peri.
I have been on HRT for 4 months and it helped me enormously.
It took a while for me to settle into it so you need to give it at least 3 months.
Good luck, I hope it helps you.
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Thanks so much I am pinning so much on hrt but read so much about it not helping but I agree the lack of sleep and my depression getting worse will cause more heart problems anyway. I've been in touch with Dana she was great but sadly the medication I've already tried and the one that might help is not available in the UK typical eh.
The medication I suggested (antihistamine called doxylamine or "Restivit") is only a stop-gap measure until you get onto hrt, and like all sleeping medication should not be used long term, although it is a much safer option than zopiclone or other benzos. However, I thought you had ordered some, or am I dreaming that bit? :)
I can only tell you what I said before - insomnia was the worst of my symptoms, where I did not sleep at all. I wish it was a case of being able to fall asleep, but waking early. I could live with that, as I'm an early riser anyway, but not being able to get to sleep at all is a real killer.
I just don't understand why you are so worried about starting hrt, or why you keep saying there are so many posts about it not helping. I'm honestly not seeing these posts. The majority that I see all seem to say that hrt has helped them, and not just for sleep issues. I think when you are only looking for the negative stuff that is all you will see. Of course there will be some who don't get any benefit from it, but there could be other reasons for it. We are all so different and we should never judge ourselves against other people experiences.
The bottom line is that you will never know if it will help or not until you give it a try. You need to make an appointment asap and get started on it asap. I know you wanted to delay it because of your cycle, but in all honestly that really isn't necessary. Phone and make an appointment today!! Even if you don't start taking it straight away, at least you will have it on hand. :)
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I'm on low dose oestrogen only. I spend many a night trying to get to sleep. Keep to a regular bedtime, occasional late nights. However, makes no difference. Most nights I'm still awake 3 hours after bedtime! I've been on HRT for many, many years but the lack of sleep has only happened in last 10 years or so. Thankfully I no longer work.
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M worst symptom is definitely insomnia - like you, I find it impossible to nod off. I can feel dog-tired on the sofa watching telly but as soon as it's lights out time, my brain just goes bananas. I'll even have one line from a song going over and over in my head in a torturous loop! Then, I'll guarantee I'll get no sleep the following night because I'm over-tired!!!
Happened last night, as a matter of fact, recognised the warning signs so took an anti-histamine. First time I've had to do that for months and probably due to a silly arguement with 16-yr old daughter earlier in the evening which got my adrenaline going.
Having the mirena coil fitted was a life-saver for me. My insomnia went from constant to occasional which allowed me to function at work/home again. No tablets to take, it just sits there doing it's job for 4 years - had it in a year so 3 more years before I need to start thinking what to do next. I'll be 54 then so I doubt they'll fit another one but I'll cross that bridge nearer the time.
My GP prescribed 28 3.5mg zopiclone tablets at the beginning of July and I have one left (for emergencies only!), and don't intend asking for more until January. I'd have got through those in no time pre-coil.
I can fully understand your reluctance to take hrt but personally, quality of life comes first.
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Peroxideblader - sorry to hear about your sleep problems. Must be awful for you as it can make you feel so poorly.
Just for curiosity, none of your medications contain steroids do they? I ask because my Mum has had terrible issues with sleep deprivation and only found out recently, it is when she has been prescribed steroids for her chest issues and is suffering again at the moment because she's had a cataract done and wasn't sleeping afterwards and we found out that the drops she has to use contain steroids so you wouldn't think that it would make that much difference.
She too takes antihistamines when she can't sleep rather than rely on sleeping pills.
Hope you get sorted soon. x
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Thanks everyone I'll try reply I'm one message..to the lady with the coil that worked do you mean you only take progesterone then with the coil and no oestrogen as that is another question of mine because the lack of sleep is the only reason I'd go on fill hrt as I'm still having regular periods and although I have a lot of the peri symptoms I could live with them not the insomnia.
Dana you are right I've pmd you as you can't buy doxy in uk so my only option is online which I darent do as they're from Poland and I don't know what I'm getting online so no doxy to try. As for hrt not helping sleep there are 2 posts on mine that comment that hrt didn't make a difference to their sleep which is my reluctance to go on hrt. I'm high risk anyway and I am only going on for sleep I know I have to try it but maybe only progesterone as more oestrogen in hrt when I'm still having periods will surely make sleeping worse. I'm at the doctors Friday he's old school retiring next week so he won't wash with my 3 year insomnia being meno related I've asked before I'm going to ask for hrt to start next period but now I don't know whether to go progesterone only or full hrt as in femoston..everytime I think I have it sorted what to ask for I read contradictory facts...
Also re sleep clinic I will look at private I did have one done on nhs a sleep test for a different reason and they diagnosed irregular brain patterns and overactive bladder which apparently ruined my sleep ..I was stopping off to sleep when I went there and I knew about my bladder as I get up 10 times a night to wee..so my trust in their verdict with no suggestion how to sort these irregular patterns was useless..but maybe now I would get somewhere.
I know people here say just go on hrt but I am a recovering bulimic anorexic so the weight gain is herd enough but if it doesn't help my sleeping at all and highers my risk of stroke I'll have used it for 3 months for nothing..
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Your over-active bladder should be investigated further. Nature has designed the body to shut down urine production in the night but occasionally the hormone over-rides so we continue to wake. Ask your GP to refer you to an incontinence nurse for advice.
What support have you had for your anorexia? I had exactly nowt until I married ………. my husband cooks and encourages me when I can't eat :-\. I ate enough to keep me upright from the age of 5 :sigh:.
Let us know how you get on! If you are able to sleep in the evening on the settee, then listen to your brain and drop off! I have a blanket close by and when I feel dozy I drag it over and people know not to disturb me: or ELSE :D
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Have you tried valerian ,I found it helped,also having a long soak in an Epsom salts bath .
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Hi Peroxidebladder - in answer to your question, yes I only have progesterone from the coil. I may need to add in Oestrogen cream if hot flushes strike but my oestrogen levels are still within normal range. Must say I'm grateful not to have any pills to remember to pop daily.
The other reason I had the coil fitted was for very heavy periods. Since they've stopped, I've had to visit the loo a lot less than before. Also, my 'leakage' problems have gone which is a huge relief. I found, a few days before my period was due, I'd occasionally leak a bit of urine, just walking which did nothing for my confidence. Bad enough with coughing, laughing and sneezing! I think my womb lining was so thick that it may have been pressing on other parts eg bladder. Anyway - problem gone!
On my sleepless nights, I'd go to the loo constantly. I assume that all my tossing and turning was irritating my bladder. Either that, or my over-active mind was so paranoid about needing the loo, that I was almost predicting yet another trip!
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Hi to answer the last few comments...I've been diagnosed with a nervous bladder by urology consultant been going on for 30 years has botox in my bladder but it didn't help so there's no cure for the 10 times through the night wees but it used to be only about 4 times its definitely got worse which I'm sure meno is to blame. Also I wish I could nod off anywhere just not bed but I can't sleep at all til the 3am earliest time I can rest mod evening but no chance of sleeping I wouldn't have a problem if I could get sleep full stop.
Thanks for the coil info my doctors won't do blog tests they say they are not reliable in peri so I don't know if I could get away with just the coil for progesterone and no oestrogen buy with having pretty regular periods ( coming every 24 days instead of 28) I don't know if I need fill hrt. I love reading the people who hrt helps with their getting to sleep but I could be with the other people that made no difference. I either have severe sude effects on tablets or like pain killers they have zero effect. Thanks I still look forward to replied.
Oh and regarding my eating disorder. I have not suffered from bulimia or anorexia for 18 years my diet is good but you have the disorder for life it rules how you feel you look and the need yo stay slim so any weight gain due to hrt could potentially put me back 18 years...don't get me wrong if I gained weight but slept I would have the strength to cope eith that but if I gain weight and still lack of sleep it would push me over the edge I hope people understand my predicament
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Peroxideblader - I'm so sorry to hear of your insomnia, it's so destructive and we all need sleep to remain healthy. You mentioned that you have other long term illnesses - might they or any drugs you use for them contribute to your insomnia? What meds do you take on a daily basis?
Dxx
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At one point do you go to bed? I find that when I sit up to read or watch TV, I have difficulty getting to sleep. Right now I'm reading an interesting book which gets my brain going :( - I can then be awake until 3.00 or beyond.
How is your diet over-all? If the body is hungry it can stay awake. How much exercise are you able to take each week?
Maybe it's time to see a Urology Consultant regarding 'irritable' bladder? 30 years is a long time ago.
How tired are you, might be a silly question but when I was working in a highly pressurised job I would be awake for hours and worry about not being able to cope the next day - but I managed. As the day went on I would have a dip in energy levels then get my 2nd-wind after tea ::)
For many years when sleep was a problem I would have the radio on quietly beside the bed.
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Oh it's utterly awful isn't it? I'm in the same boat, HRT hasn't made a difference yet, I'm still hoping, I feel like a zombie.
I hope you find something to ameliorate it.
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I wonder if trying another 'tack' might work? Years ago when Ihad problems sleeping all night sometimes it was because I woke to see if I had actually *been* asleep ::). Then I decided to either read, listen to music, get up and make a drink ….. anything to break the brain racing "I must sleep, I must sleep".
Perhaps altering your whole go-2-bed routine would work? Fill the space when you think you should be sleeping with something productive so that your brain is kept active.
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Hi in reply with thanks...I do go to bed I've varied it but now I go yo bed after reading in the lounge and my eyesons are heavy usually around 1230 then when I get to bed I become wide awake give it an hour get back up read til my eyes are too heavy then keep repeating bed..up..read..bed..until around 330 I eventually drop off. Tried getting up very early so I'm literally dying on my feet but makes no difference and I've tried sleeping where I read on sofa but no luck. It's like my body is shattered but as soon as I try to sleep my mind is racing and alert..tried hypnosis cbt relating cds etc no caffeine don't drink alcohol anyway..you name it..I just know it's a level in my body is missing at night or too high..I'm only on escitalopran and that made no adverse on my ability to drop off I stopped it for 3 months and my sleep was non existent and depression and anxiety came back ten fold so went back on it. I'm off to doctors to discuss referral to sleep clinic and hrt blood tests again. They said they won't show anything in peri so it's going off symptoms of peri of whigh I've got most of them if not I'm back to zopiclone nighty addictive or not I can't carry on like this
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I've had zopiclone for the odd week here and there but I won't take it anymore, it makes me so depressed and closed off to the world the next morning. I really wish I could sleep past 4.00am, the days are toooooo long.
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Well surprise surprise my male old doctor was rubbish...had to really argue yo get femoston instead of elleste duet as he said they are all the same no difference whatever the type of progesterone actually laughed and said you women and your on line friends said you believe anything apart from a doctor who knows best this was after a said I'd researched hrt and it seemed a good one to start with. I asked for blood tests he said no point they won't show anything til I've stopped my periods and with regard to a sleep clinic he said that was for life changing sleep issues not mine!!! Unreal..so constant 4 hours interrupted sleep every night for 3 years is not life changing well sorry it is for me my life is ruined..my doctors don't give a hoot
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Hi Charlotte I'm fine on zopiclone no side effects other than metal taste and I'm the other way without the odd night of 6 hours of sleep on it I'd be more depressed. And I agree the days are so long I'm the opposite of you I can't get to sleep til 4am and my partner and kids have been asleep since 11 so that 5 hours through the night is so long and lonely
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It's so lonely and worse in these dark nights/morning, well I hope we get 7 hours sleep again, one day!
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So have a blanket and wrap up so that you drop off on the sofa? That way you don't wake the body which will encourage the brain to start and then the bladder joins in etc., etc., etc..
Have you spoken with a local Pharmacist if your GP is stubborn? There are private rooms in Chemist's shops now so that may be another tack. Or register with a GP outside of your area as a visitor?
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Hi Peroxideblader,
I really feel for you. There is nothing more soul-destroying than insomnia - and your doctor sounds like an arrogant prat.
There's a wonderful book called 'The sleep book ' by Dr. Guy Meadows, It won't cure your insomnia, but it's an excellent resource about the do's and don'ts in terms of what to do when you can't sleep.
I found it very comforting when I was struggling with insomnia and the sleep anxiety that accompanied it.
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The more I tried to sleep the more awake my brain stayed >:( ::)
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Your doctor's bedside manner might not be the best, but he's not really "rubbish".
Most doctors don't do blood tests because they are notoriously unreliable. Doctors usually go on symptoms.
A sleep clinic really isn't going to tell you anything, because you have to sleep so they can monitor it, and you probably wouldn't sleep. They are also more designed for people who have issues while they are sleeping, like sleep apnea etc. Your insomnia is more than likely being caused by hormones, so that's what needs to be addressed.
I can also understand his frustration of having people coming in and saying "well I've read this on the internet....". They must get so many people coming to see them after being diagnosed by Dr Google. You can do all the research you want, and read a lot of posts, but everyone has a different journey and will react differently to different hrts. The main thing I've learned is to never discount or demonise any particular hrt. You might do perfectly well on the one he wanted to precribe, and not so well on the one you've had your heart set on. You might find tablets don't suit you at all, but you do better on patches. You really need to be open minded and prepared to try different ones, if the first one doesn't feel right.
Anyway, the main thing now is that you have hrt. Try to have a positive attitude. Also remember not to get disheartened if this isn't the one for you. It is very common to need to try some different one, or increase the dose, before you settle.