Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Joesmum on November 17, 2016, 08:35:51 PM
-
I am still struggling with my HRT.
Switched from Estrogel to EVOREL patches and am now using a 50mcg patch which isn't quite strong enough but I'm struggling to raise it higher as my thyroid levels are too low at the moment to cope.
Earlier in the year my thyroid levels were too high and I became hyper but we lowered it too much at which point I couldn't tolerate my 75mcg EVOREL patch so that had to be lowered to.
I'm just aware that there are a few ladies here who like me are oopherectomised and are having terrible trouble tolerating estrogel or patches. And are very sensitive to dose increases.
In short. If the thyroid is too slow, the energy inside the cell is too low........resulting in an inability to tolerate estrogen.
Estrogen is a stimulating hormone and needs cells with energy to utilise it.
If you do have your thyroids checked please ask for your results and reference ranges. ANY TSH reading above 2.5 is very suspect.
Xxx
-
Thanks Jose mum
I'm in exact,y the same boat actually, have just been unable to get anywhere with oestrogen and been advised to switch to Everol 50... I'm also on 1 grain of naturethroid (but suspect need to raise as Ft4 is quite low at 11) ...
I'm hoping to get better results on patch so I can add testosterone, which I suspect I need.. but am also seeing specialist meno clinic Ina few weeks, who I know prefer to use the gel..
What to do!
And let us know how you get on, my main worries post BOS have been massive hair loss, which could be down to shock I guess as well as hormones .. and weight gain around the middle
I fear I'm also massively oestrogen sensitive as have barely been on two pumps of oestrogen on and off, but suffer huge breast changes, swollen and sore :-(
Abby x
-
Im self medicating on the Naturethroid, despite having antibodies my GP refused so I took matters in my own hands :(
My FT3 last time I had it measured (as NHS won't) in 2015 was FT3 5.0 (3.1-6.8)
So the menopause clinic will take all this into consideration?
Maybe I should stop the thyroid meds too.. I'm so confused to be honest.. I feel like my body needs to rebalance itself somehow
I started taking thyroid meds because of massive hair loss - and tiredness and weight gain...
I'm still a stone over weight, have lost 80% of hair but feel less tired it has to be said
My oestrogen levels are very low, but have ok testosterone
What to do?
-
Yes I must check back into Thyroid uk
since being on NDT my antibodies have come down from <73 to <46 which is good right?
Just the hair that's a problem.. fine, falling out, dry and brittle just awful :(
-
Thanks Joesmum
My GP flatly refuses to have anything to do with prescribing any kind of thyroid meds for me - but I initally presented with all teh symptoms of a subclinical hypothyroid patient. Weight gain, high choelsterol (despite being a healthy vegetarian exerciser for years), epic hair loss and tiredness...
But, I have noticed hair decline massively since the op so wondering if oestrogen deficiency is in there..
I wiill up the thyroid meds try to get to 2 or 3 grains and see how I feel.. It would be amazing to lose the 13lbs I'm currently over my normal weight and feel more myself again
I have to buy naturethroid - unless you know anyone in UK that will prescribe it?
Abby
-
Thanks Joesmum
My GP flatly refuses to have anything to do with prescribing any kind of thyroid meds for me - but I initally presented with all teh symptoms of a subclinical hypothyroid patient. Weight gain, high choelsterol (despite being a healthy vegetarian exerciser for years), epic hair loss and tiredness...
But, I have noticed hair decline massively since the op so wondering if oestrogen deficiency is in there..
I wiill up the thyroid meds try to get to 2 or 3 grains and see how I feel.. It would be amazing to lose the 13lbs I'm currently over my normal weight and feel more myself again
I have to buy naturethroid - unless you know anyone in UK that will prescribe it?
Abby
Why does the GP refuse flatly when you have the symptoms? I have underactive thyroid but haven't tried combining that with HRT.
-
Hi, Joesmum!
I'm sorry you're struggling still - the whole thyroid caboodle is another 'wild card' thrown into the mix when us surgical ladies are trying to find balance! :o
I wondered due to my difficulties with raising my HRT doses if this may be an issue for me, but seemingly not - I've just got my TSH and Free TH levels back, as follows:
TSH: 0.72 (range 0.35 - 5.00)
Free TH 10.8 (range 9.0 - 21.0)
So I don't think there is anything going on there?
In my case, I just think my nerves are rattled to pieces after the carry on over the last almost 2 years trying to even get HRT, let alone achieve anything remotely resembling balance........(sorry, I've got my angry head on today. And no - I've not even been near the Testosterone! I wish)....... ;)
-
I have to buy naturethroid - unless you know anyone in UK that will prescribe it?
Abby
GP's can prescribe Armour Thyroid. It's the only one. And your GP may say they can't. But they can. So it might be worth asking.
-
Thank you so much, Joesmum!
So - I popped over to Thyroid UK as you suggested and one of the mods. kindly replied. They basically said that I MAY have a secondary hypothyroid problem, but with my levels as they are the NHS would be unlikely to treat (grrrrrr - what the HELL is going on with all this)?! The mod. did suggest possibly supplementing with selenium as this might help, and that as my levels stand I'm probably feeling pretty rubbish (very true)!
I'm wondering if I should go ahead and get a full thyroid panel done privately at the Nuffield........ ???
-
I have had full thyroid tests done and I am showing Graves' disease I believe , however in range NHS just .
Antibodies of 130 , so will be joining thyroid UK on Monday.
My vit d was 36 very low , ferritin 9 very very low and B13 398 also far to low so lots to sort out .
-
B12
-
Thanks Joesmum
My GP flatly refuses to have anything to do with prescribing any kind of thyroid meds for me - but I initally presented with all teh symptoms of a subclinical hypothyroid patient. Weight gain, high choelsterol (despite being a healthy vegetarian exerciser for years), epic hair loss and tiredness...
But, I have noticed hair decline massively since the op so wondering if oestrogen deficiency is in there..
I wiill up the thyroid meds try to get to 2 or 3 grains and see how I feel.. It would be amazing to lose the 13lbs I'm currently over my normal weight and feel more myself again
I have to buy naturethroid - unless you know anyone in UK that will prescribe it?
Abby
Why does the GP refuse flatly when you have the symptoms? I have underactive thyroid but haven't tried combining that with HRT.
She just said she didnt' think I needed thyroid meds :(
I will post on Thyroid uk and see what they say
Abby
-
I don't understand this, what is going on with these doctors. When I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism (Hashimoto's autoimmune) it was very difficult to stabilise on Thyroxine and some time later after joining Thyroid UK and learning about T3, I asked my GP to refer me to an endocrinologist which he was quite happy to do. I was started on T3 as well as Thyroxine and my levels soon stabilised.
The endocrinologist who looks after me now is a gem, I trust him with my life and he looks after me very well. Although the reference range for TSH is 0.5 - 4.5 (I believe it can differ across the country) he does not like mine to be over 2.5 and I feel best around 1 - 1.5. Any lower and I start to go thyrotoxic. My FT4 is usually around 14 - 15 and my T3 stays around 4.5 - 5.
I am so lucky to be looked after by him as he is one of the top specialists in his field and is very knowledgeable. Also my GP takes note of the report that is always sent to him. I feel very fortunate.
There are good doctors out there and I am sorry to hear you are not experiencing this.
-
Clutter is great!
x
-
Josie, what is the name ? you can email me privately if you like,
I have antibodies (started at 78 and have slowly come down) but my GP said they were too low to be of any significance!
my TSh is now lower than it's ever been (due to NDT) but my FT4 is low, 11
last time FT3 was measured it was ok, 5 somthing...
I'm at a loss
Abby
-
oh no!
Well, I can't get referred, my GP has been adament I have no thyroid issues whatsover!
can you give me a name?
-
I had TSH of 2.1 and T4 of 15 in 2001 when I was TATT and depressed. Given sertraline (never again!!!!)
I had TSH of 2.63 and T4 of 14.1 in 2014 (which I discovered recently as I can look at my notes online - never knew the test was taken)
I thought they were bang in the middle of normal - so not?
-
This is all very interesting - the interaction between thyroid function and oestrogen and ovarian function. I don't know anything about the normal relationship and physiology of the interaction, so if you have any links to papers on it Joesmum I would be interested to read them. The only link I have read about ( although I must say I haven't searched) - is when taking oral oestrogen because it can lower the amount of thyroid hormone available - (but sounds pretty complicated and requires an understanding of endocrine function and all the feedback mechanisms!) and therefore those taking thyroid meds and oral oestrogen may need to get their thyroid levels checked regularly especially when starting oral HRT.
Re the doctors babyjane - from what I've read thyroid function seems to be not well understood nor treated - but if results are within the reference range it seems nothing can be done on NHS. What seems to be being discussed here is asking for treatment when results are within the ref range but not ideal and perhpas symptomatic (apart form Abby H with antibodies - can't udnerstand why this isn't being treated as Hashimoto's?) and a lack of acceptance that normal for some may be abnormal for others. Presumably also when there are limited funds - what constitutes a condition needing treatment. In your position presumably as you say you were diagnosed as hypothyroid your levels were outside the normal range and therefore treatment would automatically follow without problem.
What I do find strange (and I have said this before in response to your post on this! - Where have you been by the way - don't think you're posted for a while???) - is that there is a discrepancy between TSH levels at which treatment is deemed necessary when underactive thyroid is diagnosed, and the levels at which someone with underactive thyroid such as yourself are said to be ideal. ie above 4.5 TSH treatable. Ideal with treatment below 2.5 feeling best between 1 and 1.5. What about those of us whose level is over 2.5 as mine was last measurement - almost 3? We just get on with it? I mean we are not ill but definitely not functioning as well as we could be - and how much of this should we put down to age (I am in my 60's)? Can we reasonably expect our hormones to be tweaked and topped up into our 80's with a cash-strapped NHS?
Sorry this is a bit off topic or at least at a tangent to the original post but is an important one I think for many women - and I think if the whole thyroid thing was treated properly as it should a lot more women would be slimmer, less tired and jumping about - but it would cost a lot of money I expect!
I do think all women who have gone through surgical menopause should automatically be referred to gynaecologists and endocrinologists though!
Hurdity x
-
I went to a lecture at Loughborough university on Thyroid and B12 and how the " within ranges " are just that and GPs etc to THINK outside the box as if you have symptoms of either of those two conditions ( or any others ferritin etc ), and you are at either end of the within range then common sense says to trial whatever medication , this would probably save money re constant GP trips days off work etc.
The NHS Professor talking about thyroid says there is clinical evidence that these patients need treating , and the GPs etc need to listen to there patients , this professor said the NHS testing for thyroid is missing so many , and a trial she was part of probes that ALL patients in the inrange but with obvious thyroid symptoms ALL improved when treated with medication.
The data is out there but it was done with her and a leading thyroid specialist, who died before the paper could be published as it is the only one of its kind worldwide and there are lots of procedures to go through to be able to get it published.
I showed her my results and symptoms and she said I need treatment but the NHS won't , so another private appointment.
The discussion on B12 deficiency was equally exasperatingly infuriating, regards my husbands health who is now back at the gym 3 times a week after 4 years away and was heading for early retirement and a wheelchair.
I can almost guarantee that most ladies on here will have thyroid , ferritin , vitamin D and B12 as a starter deficiency.
The witnin ranges are to big and set far to low , we should all be at optimal range for us to fire on all four cylinders, and antidepressants are just dished out instead.
My ferritin is 9 was 6 got to 19 GP said great stop taking iron ( that's in the days I listened to GPs) , back down to 16 and now 9 , for proper hair growth the body functioning it should be a minimum of 30 ( as per a NHS professor of heamotology) and 80 to be firing on all cylinders , the private sector ( baring in mind most work for the NHS also ) like to see it at 60/80.
They will tell you that all the ranges are set to low , however the NHS is broke ......but these are really quite cheap to sort out and I bet in the long run would save money regards people being sighned off work , various hospital visits etc etc.
My hubby had 3 a&e visits , a night on a stroke ward , a brain scan , MRI , three consultant appointments ( we were told on two occasions we should have called an ambulance) , the odd week or two off work , the list goes on.
Then told nothing we can do STRESS, private bloods showed his B12 was on the floor not even with in range , the testing and treating and teaching of B12 deficiency has got lost at med school , and all these people being put on PPIs they deplete your B12 even further.
So the NHS is AMAZING for emergencies cancer, stroke etc and we are incredibly lucky to have it , however some thinking outside the boxes need to be done , as one Professoer has said GPs are scientists who stop thinking when they are qualified.
Rant over , I will dig out the thyroid stuff if Hurdity is interested , it was only done in captions however regards a way of following the lecture , as it was mostly for healthcare professionals as part of ther CPD ( think that's the term ) with a few like me.
As a aside there was a NHS microbiologist there who's antibodies where 2,500 extremely ill signed off work for 6 months ( NHS money ) who's GP wouldn't help as the other parts of her test where in range , she self treated and back at work HOWEVER the GP still won't treat her.
She also said the ranges are all set to low and no one is thinking outside the box.
-
Thanks that is so helpful..
We should all be able to advocate for our health..
Keep up the good work everyone.
Abby x
-
Hello Hurdity, yes, when I finally had blood tests done my GP rang me the following evening to explain what was wrong as my TSH was 52! Over the next 18 months I was started on thyroxine and the dose increased but I never felt better. Eventually I was taking 250mcg thyroxine and has a FT4 of 26 but I still had hypothyroid symptoms. That's when I was referred and I am in the 15% sub group of thyroid patients who cannot convert T4 to T3 properly. Since I have been on the combination and with my current endo I am more stable that I have ever been over the last 10 years.
I wish all thyroid patients could receive good care.
Once upon a time I wrote a letter to a well known women's magazine about my experiences and they contacted me to do an article about thyroid issues which I was glad to do. Over the next 6 months after the magazine article was published, the magazine's editorial department forwarded to me a total of 130 letters that had been sent in in response to the article. It was heartbreaking to read so many sad stories of women not being given treatment properly. I replied to as many as I could but could do nothing to help them really or give advice except to point them to Thyroid UK.