Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Dawncam on October 21, 2016, 09:17:37 AM
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I'm interested in DHEA and currently doing some research and would love feedback from those who have/are using it.
Thanks in advance.
Dx
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Bump. Snap I am looking into this too.
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Hi tipsydilly - any conclusions so far?
Dx
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Many thanks menomale - it certainly seems to work for the women who use it. I'll keep researching.
Dx
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That's really interesting menomale and I wonder if continued use of DHEA would result in lowering E use? I'm really surprised more specialists aren't on to this and wonder why?
Dx
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Menomale, I think you and I are the only MM members taking DHEA. I agree there aren't many studies/articles on DHEA but I don't care because like you, I take it at my own risk and I am effectively carrying out my own study.
I have been very impressed so far and definitely feel better and have more energy. I have been taking 25mg everyday for over a year and have starting producing my own hormones again, namely, oestrogen, testosterone (confirmed in blood tests) and probably a small amount of progesterone because my periods are lighter. My gynaecologist suggested I reduce my dose to 10mg everyday but I had a couple of migraines while on the Utrogestan phase so the migraine specialist told me to increase back to 25mg and I have not had another migraine since.
My observations are not based on anything scientific but I have a hunch that in my case, producing my own hormones gives me a greater resistence to artificial progesterone (my only migraine trigger) and keeps the migraines away and possibly makes me feel better overall.
So it's really down to the individual to decide whether or not to try it but in my opinion, there is nothing to lose by giving it a go and if it doesn't work out, you can just stop taking it.
You should not take DHEA if you are post menopause unless you are taking HRT or have had a hysterectomy because it will cause womb lining to build up.
I look at it this way, synthetic progesterone and high doses of Utrogestan (which, incidentally is where all the risks of HRT lie) has a horrific effect on my body and triggers silent migraines that consist of a blind spot followed by 25 minutes of visual disturbance that make me virtually blind. This means there are a whole host of jobs I would not be able to do and who knows what damage it could do long term. How can DHEA possibly be any more harmful than that?
Note: these are my own personal experiences and others may have very different experiences while using medication mentioned in this post.
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I tried DHEA 10mg ever so briefly last year so can't comment on either good or bad effects. I stopped as I seemed to be the only one here and it worried me that I was taking my search to feel better too far so it's lovely hearing your stories
X
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I tried pregnenolone, the precursor to DHEA, but it seemed to feed my oestrogen levels (mine are too high) rather than create balance.
You might have to take for a long time though for it to top everything up. It does appear to be better science to make our own hormones from these precursors, so would be good to see how people do on them whilst the market develops.
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I haven't read this thread but here is an old thread about DHEA:
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,24094.msg367134.html#msg367134
Hurdity x
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I did take DHEA for a few months 3 years ago. I knew I had very low levels of testosterone and was suffering extreme exhaustion and non existent libido, but was unable at the time to find anyone to prescribe testosterone or hrt due to my age. I was desperate to visit my son who lives in the USA, so followed expert advice. I did feel more energetic for a while, but the effects wore off. However, we found I was suffering from some kind of infection, so difficult to judge how effective it was.
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DHEA gets a mention in this article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3887774/Frances-59-poor-memory-slept-badly-tired-taking-five-pills-day-gave-energy-20-year-old.html
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Many thanks for all the info everyone.
Saw another thread yesterday where the lady was talking about pregnenolone?
Any info on that?
Dxx
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Hi Menomale and MAry
can you let me know what sort you take? tablet? which brand?
I also have been recently taking it, have noticed more energy, but not breast size change.. will persevere but wonder if there's a particular brand i should go for? it's the 25mg I'm on
Thanks and look forward to noticing more positive effects, extreme hair loss is something I've suffered from so hoping it will help
Abby
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That's what I'm taking!
glad am on right track!
abby x
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abbyH, my favourite brand is HealthAid and they are manufactured in the UK for export only would you believe! I buy them in Gibraltar (most pharmacies have them in stock) but I have bought them online from BIOVEA in the past. I take one 25mg tablet everyday.
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Biovea a good brand!
Im taking the Eurovital!
so will continue and hopefully feel the benefits!
Abby x
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Are there any contraindications for DHEA? Age/hrt use etc
Dx
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Dawncam, you should never take DHEA if you post menopause without taking HRT (progesterone) as well because it can cause the womb lining to build up. Women who have had a hysterectomy can take it without HRT.
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DHEA gets a mention in this article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3887774/Frances-59-poor-memory-slept-badly-tired-taking-five-pills-day-gave-energy-20-year-old.html
This sort of sensational article is so typical of the Daily Mail! it really makes my blood boil. I mean the elixir of youth for the idle rich. This is not what we should be seeking or promoting. The cost is ridiculous and way beyond the reach of most normal mortals and probably most DM readers too, and what she is doing is almost on a par with plastic surgery. Well maybe that's going a bit far but you get my drift? What we need for menopause is affordable treatment for all (on NHS) which alleviates the worst symptoms that women experience so that we can function in good health for the 30 (or even 40) years or so we have in post-menopause.
It is ridiculous to seek eternal youth and expect to look and feel and jump around like a 20 year old. I can completely understand her wanting to treat her lack of energy but most women are not tested, treated, tweaked, plumped, at great expense! It is impossible to say in her case which hormone was most responsible for her improvement - I suspect thyroid had a lot to do with it and yes maybe the others too.
I don't think taking things like pregnenolone is the way to go. I mean it's just a precursor. If this particular steroid was a limiting factor then we would be recommended to take it. Why not just eat cholesterol? It is the enzyme/endocrine controls which are crucial and the feedback mechanisms through the brain. This is more of an American thing I think where private specialists seem to promote any old thing - all of these "treatments" springing up due to their different healthcare system. Do they have placebo controlled trials demonstrating their efficacy and safety....we would have them here if so I would have thought?
There are no standard recommended treatments or doses for DHEA in UK because there simply is not enough research into its use for specific treatments, and the dose, nor into long term side effects. There are research trials into various aspects but they are short term and inconclusive I gather? I must look some up! I agree that more work should be done though!
Because little is known then I wouldn't take it at all if not on HRT - because it is uncertain whether it would be converted if at all, to testosterone or oestrogen - and in the absence of oestrogen you wouldn't want it to convert more to testosterone!
Hurdity x
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I hadn't actually read the DM article as I'd rather do my own research.
There's one point on which we should all agree re. Scientific Press Reports, good, bad or just plain snake oil and that is that it brings to the public, a view on new (and sometimes) expensive treatments that we'd otherwise not know about. We all know GP's who are barely up to scratch on HRT let alone the myriad options available and prescribing protocol.
We are all intelligent and mature enough to make our own decisions on if/how/why we should include any of these in our lives.
I'm not yet convinced about DHEA and had already come across it many years ago whilst researching 'smart drugs' for my oldest boy who's dyslexic. Then, it was being touted as a wonder supplement for children with difficulties with focus and attention. I spoke to GP, definite shaking of head and I moved on.
We're lucky to have the options we do and should embrace the freedom of choice available to us with an intelligent approach.
Dxx
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My apologies, it was DHA not DHEA recommended for my son! Meno memory! Lord knows what would have happened if he'd taken DHEA!
Dxx
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I'm not stating anything or making judgements or anything like that but here's what my specialist wrote back after I asked him about taking it, his words, not mine!
Dear Dawn
You do not need DHEA. It is a precursor of testosterone and only works after being converted to testosterone.
I have given you testosterone which seems to be working well.
Please do not waste your time and money on DHEA.
Dxx
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Thanks for that Dawncam - an expert's view :)
Hurdity x
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It's made things clearer for me personally.
Dxx
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Dawncam, that's interesting but I wonder if it works differently for different people? For example, I use 2 pumps of Oestrogel everyday and yet my blood readings for oestrogen are in the high 800s which is a high reading for someone of my age (55) post menopause and on 2 pumps of gel and it would indicate that I am producing my own oestrogen again - my gynaecologist thinks so.
Also, if I take 25mg DHEA everyday, so far, it seems to keep my migraines away while on the Utrogestan phase, probably because I am producing my own oestrogen again.
So I am going to stick with it but of course I understand if others don't want to try it.
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Hi Mary G - very possibly. As does everything in this hormonal jungle! I'm going to stick with prescribing protocol from specialist as GP gets very twitchy if I deviate in any way.
Glad it's working for you though.
Dxx
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Thanks for that menomale - I'm at such a low point just now, unable to maintain any quality of life or relationships that this approval has made me decide to at least give it a go. I certainly can't feel any worse than this.
Dx
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I think it's due to trying low norethisterone (micronor 350mcg) only for 7 days but it's made me a depressed introvert. Didn't take any today but it's already left it's calling card. Just got to ride out the withdrawal. I was desperately trying to find an alternative to IUD prog but im so prog intolerant that I really think U is probably safest/kindest other than a hyster and that seems a bit drastic.
I figure if I can stabilise E and T, I can manage U.
Thanks for asking.
Dxx
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Thanks menomale - I think I'll give DHEA a go and review tibolone after that. Just want 'me' back. A bit tired of watching women thrive and survive whilst I feel like crawling into a hole.
Dxx
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Ps - good luck with alt day U. I tried it but probably not for long enough. I think I just have to accept that VERY small amounts are ok for me and if, at some point, I have to have a hyster then I will.
Dxx
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This is an really interesting thread. A friend of a friend (so not close enough I can in all conscience pester) is a top gynaecologist who works with bio identical products and is at a high level of research, suggested I try DHEA (on top of the hrt) first, then prednenalone, then testosterone but the latter only the care of an HRT specialist. Ive been sporadic with the DHEA but perhaps I should stick with it.
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Ooh kikie - that's really interesting! I'm definitely going to give it a whirl. What protocol were you using?
Dxx
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Hi Dawncam - I'm still not sure why you want to try DHEA if you are already using testosterone? What is it you are not happy with? Also remind me where you are in menopause and how old (sorry I can't keep everyone's stories in my head!!!)? Sporadic pieces of research (especially those carried out on mice like the last link) are very interesting but should not be used as the basis on which to try out something! Surely your specialist gynae's advice is the one to go on as s/he will be totally up to date with research and what's what?
Having said that, if you take it instead of testosterone, at a very low dose and you are already taking oestrogen, and progestogen to protect the womb, and if it has been shown not to have any ill effects then maybe no harm in giving it a try for a few months? If I hadn't been given testosterone I might have been tempted although I would always be very cautious about products which are not standardised and which don't have trials to back them up re dosage and long term effects!!
There is some information - this one is probably out of date now as I think there have been some more favourable studies since then - but it's the meta-analyses and reviews of current studies that are the ones to look for rather than individual pieces of research - as these search the literature and pull together all the known findings to date. Cochrane reviews are good. I'm sure some of these have been linked to recently?
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2010-2888
Hurdity x
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Ooh kikie - that's really interesting! I'm definitely going to give it a whirl. What protocol were you using?
Dxx
I'm not sure what you mean by protocol but I was initially on 2 pumps of oestrogel and 1 tablet utrogestan 100. When fluid retention started I dropped to 1 pump, which I've been on for a few weeks now. I'm trying to be regular with the DHEA now but its early days. I must admit my instincts say my body is crying out for testosterone! Actually I'm going to post another thread with a funny story about that, under the humour section. :-)
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Many thanks menomale and kikie - I wouldn't take the dhea without first stopping T. I'm aware there's a correlation between the 2. I was at an all time low yesterday due to low E levels when I saw your post Kikie and made a knee-jerk decision which, in all honesty, I wouldn't act on without careful consideration. I've changed my brand and dose of E and am already feeling better. I'll continue with this protocol ie E and T and keep dhea in mind whilst doing further research. Thanks for your comments.
Dxx
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Hi Dawncam - I'm still not sure why you want to try DHEA if you are already using testosterone? What is it you are not happy with?
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2010-2888
Hurdity x
Ok so I actually read the above study and in layman's terms and a nutshell despite some women who took part in the trial reporting an increase in libido and all things sexual, it concludes that there isn't enough evidence to categorically state this, as the numbers involved were too small, so more testing, studies etc needs to be done.
Response to dhea also depends on age, where you are on the Menopause spectrum, if you still have your adrenals etc etc etc. Similar to the consensus about Testosterone.
I'll try anything once so won't rule out testosterone or dhea (after talking to my gp of course).
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I really think we should all be allowed to come to our own conclusions on dhea and if and when we want to use it.
Dxx
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Thank you menomale - I'm afraid we're guinea pigs at almost every stage of life - my youngest son is going through a newly introduced examination system when most of his teachers agree there was nothing wrong with the old one! I've heard of something similar happening in Oz and it was so disastrous they reverted to the original.
We've seen this many times with the arguments over hrt (and I also remember a bcp scandal) and all the while we as women have to make the decision on how we proceed with these drugs.
Like you say, arm yourself with the facts and make the best decision FOR YOU as an individual.
Dxx
Dxx
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Quite.
Dxx