Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Peroxideblader on October 08, 2016, 02:49:49 PM
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Hello...I've posted before as I'm pretty sure all my health issues in the last 3 years I now know are due to peri and hope to start hrt soon..my doctor offered me elleste duet but I'm going to ask to start on femoston after advice on here..my question is..on the posts I've read with regard to insomnia in majority of cases people can fall asleep no problem but wake very early but I'm the other way round..for over 3 years now I go to bed around 1130 and after up and down reading it's not til around 3 or 4 am I get to sleep...I'm so tired when I go to bed but it's like my body is wired and the off switch has broken..has anyone found hrt helps them to go to sleep as this is the main reason doctor suggested going on it..the other issues are debilitating but liveable but this constant lack of sleep has made me mentally and physically very ill..thanks ( tried all other sleep cures and life changes and pills nothing helps)
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Have you tried relaxation techniques? I'm doing mindfulness in bed every night listening to it on headphones and I'm out before the end even though its not meant to make you sleepy! If your over 55 you can ask your GP to prescribe you natural serotonin which is meant to help my GP told me but I'm too young you can also buy it over the counter in some European countries but not here sadly
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Hi there.
Can I ask if you read your book in bed? I ask as my counselor asked me it once......bed he said is just for sleep, if you wish to read it should be sitting in a chair and not in bed at all. It worked for me as did putting lavender in a carry oil and rubbing into the soles of my feet.....it's absorbed that way...
Ms Saucy xx
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Hi I'm only 47 but my doctors won't prescribe melatonin anyway sadly. And yes tried the mindful technique the cds the cbt acupuncture hypnotism..nothing..I know it's because either some level of hormone is missing at night or I have an influx of it..thanks though 😊
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Hi Ms saucy..no I try to get to sleep then if after about 20 minutes if I'm still awake I get up go into the snug and read then back to bed..usually about 3 to 4 hours of this up and down..bed is for sleep like therapist said..I've tried going to bed at 2 am but still can't fall asleep even though my eyelids can't stay open..😌
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:(
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:( at the moment I'm using dipenhydramine (it's in Unisom, Benadryl and Panadol Night).
When I was insane with insomnia with PND I was given Olanzapine, which would knock out a horse. But it's an antipsychotic and a heavy med.
It does work though. :(
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Hi Peroxidebladder,
I am 49, in perimenopause and my only symptom is insomnia.
Before starting HRT Sometimes I would have early morning waking (sleep maintenance), other times I would find it very hard to fall asleep (sleep onset). Both were due to hormone fluctuations and HRT has helped settle this for me.
I have been taking HRT for just over 2 months now and my sleep has improved significantly.
Take care
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I know what it is like, too, insomnia was my first symptom and It wasn't only waking up in the middle of the night. It started three years ago, when I was PM I had episodes where I just couldn't get to sleep, I was tired, exhausted and just started worrying about any little thing without importance for no reason when I went to bed and ended up getting up going over all the things I had to do and solve. In the morning, things didn't seem so bad and laughed at myself wasting my whole night suffering. Then, last year I just stated waking up at 4 or 5 am and just couldn't get back to sleep, for no reason. It stopped completely while I was on Qlaira and is back now I am on hrt. Last night I didn't get an hour's sleep. Feel so exhausted and low. I try taking magnesium that worked in the past before my periods started shortening and when I missed my first one summer 2015. Now while on hrt doesn't seem to work. In the last two weeks I've only had 3 or five night's sleep out of exhaustion!
Hugs xxx
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Hi Peroxide
Yes, the total inability to sleep was my worst meno symptom. I would get so frustrated by people telling me to read a book, learn how to meditate, practice "sleep hygiene" (which is a crock as far as I'm concerned when you are suffering hormonal insomnia) etc. I tried just about every remedy (lavender, melatonin, over the counter remedies etc). All the people who offered all this advice have obviously never truly experienced what it's like to be totally unable to sleep. I hated hearing about people who would complain of "insomnia", when they could easier fall asleep but the poor dears just woke up early, or maybe woke a few times through the night. At least those people got some sleep, even if it was a few hours.
HRT saved my life - literally. My depression and anxiety were so bad from insomnia that I honestly had suicidal thoughts. Obviously I can't tell you that it will solve all your problems, but it certainly solved mine. My fear of the insomnia returning is the main reason why I'm really reluctant to ever stop taking HRT. I can live with any other symptom, but insomnia is a no-go zone for me.
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I would get so frustrated by people telling me to read a book, learn how to meditate, practice "sleep hygiene" (which is a crock as far as I'm concerned when you are suffering hormonal insomnia)
Yes, when it's a hormonal problem none of that other stuff makes any difference.
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Insomnia was my worst symptom in peri too. I'd go to bed exhausted after 9 hours work & would be totally unable to fall asleep. Getting up to do another 9 hours after 0 hours sleep was torturous. As a results I did so many silly mistakes at work and my confidence totally plummeted.
My 2nd worst symptom was very heavy periods, so I had the mirena coil fitted. Somehow the progesterone in the coil had a sedating effect which was wonderful so I only get the odd sleepless night now, thank goodness.
I eventually managed to change my hours at work & now just do 3 afternoons. I think, for me, worrying about the alarm going off soon didn't help my insomnia at all. Since my working hours changed, I can set my alarm for a much more reasonable time & that's only to make sure my 16 year old has got up for school! I now have the luxury of going back to bed after that if I want to!
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Thanks so much for your encouraging replies..like a few have said people don't realise the depth of the insomnia in peri it's no good spouting the usual hot chocolate read a book etc it's life changing and has pushed me to the edge..I am lucky if I get 4 hours sleep and has been over 3 years now..I have severe depression and wanted to end my life ..I am trying to stay positive but tiredness wipes put all happy feelings I'm on zopiclone as ny doctors knew how ill I was..I only take quarter of a tablet which enables me to have some sleep rather than literally none. I know how addictive it is which is why I don't take the full dose..I will certainly try hrt I think I have to before a lose my family and partner...can I just ask people who have posted to tell me in peri stage what hrt helped them to sleep as I'll be going on femoston purely because I've been told it's the kinder progesterone..thank you 😊
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I meant to say I can't take any sleep aids or antihistamine as they give me restless legs all night so sadly benadryl etc are no good..
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As I said in my earlier post, I'm 50, peri, and have the mirena coil for hrt purposes. I don't need it for contraception as OH had the snip many years ago! I was also prescribed oestrogen gel but every time I've used it, the insomnia has come back so I can only assume my body is still producing enough oestrogen at this moment in time.
Don't beat yourself up about taking Zopiclone. I have a small 'in case of emergency break glass' supply of 3.75mg Zopiclone which I probably take twice a month when my own hormones spike and insomnia returns or if I wake at 3am and realise that one of my teenage kids isn't home yet! If something gets my adrenaline gets going, sleep is impossible without some help!
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Haven't read all the response, however, can you drop off in front of the TV? If so, have a blanket handy and sleep where your brain decides to!
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Hi there.
Just a thought but avoid all caffeinated drinks and alcohol, hot chocolate is caffeined too.
I drink only green tea and water, sleep like a log xxx
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Hi I have had decaf everything for over 15 years and I hate tea of any kind I'm afraid...and no I can't fall asleep that's the strange thing I am so so exhausted but I keep going and keeping busy and apart from a slight slump after tea I nevr feel sleepy...especially at night....my body feels tired as in I can't keep my eyes open and my body is heavy and wiped out by once in bed my brain comes alive....that's why I am not going on hrt this month as I am having real issues with my son very upsetting times with him and my own bad health so even if I was a sleeper I wouldn't be right now with so much worry on my mind....thanks for saying zopiclone is ok...I should stop it completely because the quarter i take is no good at all for getting to sleep just means SOME sleep..thank you everyone...lets just hope hrt does work Rome and my sleeping I really really hope so as its my last hope..😥
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can I just ask people who have posted to tell me in peri stage what hrt helped them to sleep
I'm using estradot 37.5mcg patches and Utrogestan 100mg for 12 days.
Just a word of warning: When I started HRT it made my sleep worse initially. It took me at least 2 weeks to start to settle into it.
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can I just ask people who have posted to tell me in peri stage what hrt helped them to sleep as I'll be going on femoston purely because I've been told it's the kinder progesterone..thank you 😊
My insomnia hit me literally overnight. I went from being a perfect sleeper, to not being able to sleep at all. I also never really had any peri symptoms, apart from irregular periods. I think somehow my hormone levels plummeted so quickly, literally overnight, that I pretty much bypassed peri and went straight to post.
I did have sleep issues for the next 4 years, but that's because I did become dependent on a sleeping tablet (diazepam), so be VERY careful about taking zopiclone at all, even if it's a small dose because it has the same effect on the body as a benzodiazepine (diazepam, valium, xanax, klonopin et), and addiction can be very fast, and it can be very hard to wean yourself off. It took me 2 years of weaning, plus another 2 years of healing before I began feel like my old self, and on and off insomnia was a major side effect of that weaning process.
During the initial period of insomnia I didn't realise it was the diazepam that was causing the real problem, so I tried a lot of different HRTs trying to find out what in the hell was wrong with me. It took me about 6 months to realise that the HRT was actually doing its job, but I was hamstrung by the side effects of the diazepam, so please be VERY careful. It's only really in the last 6-8 months that I can say that I am totally healed from a process that started back at the end of 2011.
The HRT routine that I have now settled on is Estradot 50 patches, plus 5mg Provera for 10-12 days every other month. That gives me a period every other month, which is okay for now, but I'm 57 so down the track I do want to try to find a period-free routine that I can live with.
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It is said that as we age we need less sleep anyway. Someone who is over active won't drop off. One needs sleep hygiene routine apparently.
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"Sleep hygiene" doesn't work when it's hormonal insomnia. It also depends on the older person as to how much sleep they get. My 99 year old aunt consistently gets at least 8-9 hours sleep a night - always has. Interestingly she has never taken HRT, or any sleeping medication, or had any meno symptoms. Go figure.....
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Dana did you try increasing your physical exercise during the day (apart from in the evening before bed) so that you were physically tired - which should aid sleep? I'm not sure whether this works if you have severe insomnia though?
However I would recommend to anyone who has trouble sleeping at least to try taking more exercise - I do always find I sleep much better and more deeply when I am physically tired than just mentally tired or sleepy.
Hurdity x
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Hi there.
Can we help in any way with the stress around your son.....may get slightly better rest then.
I have worked with children and youngsters since the 90's so have a lot of knowledge re things and services that may help you .
Ms Saucy xx
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Dana did you try increasing your physical exercise during the day (apart from in the evening before bed) so that you were physically tired - which should aid sleep? I'm not sure whether this works if you have severe insomnia though?
However I would recommend to anyone who has trouble sleeping at least to try taking more exercise - I do always find I sleep much better and more deeply when I am physically tired than just mentally tired or sleepy.
Hurdity x
Yes, I tried everything. I have always exercised in the morning, and trust me it makes absolutely no difference when it is hormonal insomnia (just like all other "sleep hygiene" techniques). People who haven't experienced hormonal insomnia just don't understand what it is like. I described it to a friend once as being like having 20 cups of strong coffee right before going to bed. It is that "tired but wired" feeling that nothing will help, other than some kind of sleeping medication (or estrogen).
Hormonal insomnia is not a case of "mind over matter" which a lot of sleep hygiene techniques are designed for. People who have insomnia due to other reasons like anxiety, poor sleep patterns, lack of exercise, poor diet, etc may well benefit from sleep hygiene techniques, but when you are being affected by hormones it is a completely different matter. It is literally a physical barrier preventing you from sleeping. Only those who have experienced it will truly understand what it is like. It is a very real menopause symptom, just like all the other symptoms.
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Hi I have had decaf everything for over 15 years and I hate tea of any kind I'm afraid...and no I can't fall asleep that's the strange thing I am so so exhausted but I keep going and keeping busy and apart from a slight slump after tea I nevr feel sleepy...especially at night....my body feels tired as in I can't keep my eyes open and my body is heavy and wiped out by once in bed my brain comes alive....that's why I am not going on hrt this month as I am having real issues with my son very upsetting times with him and my own bad health so even if I was a sleeper I wouldn't be right now with so much worry on my mind....thanks for saying zopiclone is ok...I should stop it completely because the quarter i take is no good at all for getting to sleep just means SOME sleep..thank you everyone...lets just hope hrt does work Rome and my sleeping I really really hope so as its my last hope..😥
I totally understand what you are experiencing. It's that "tired but wired" feeling that I know so well. I would often be nodding off in front of the TV, and I'd think "Great, I shouldn't have any problems going to sleep tonight", but as soon as I actually tried to go to sleep, my eyes would literally ping open, and that would be that.
I understand and sympathise with the other problems you have at the moment, but in all honesty you aren't doing yourself any favours by delaying the HRT, IMO. I know how well it works for me, so I hope it works as well for you. Even if something is worrying me or distracting me I still seem to be able to sleep, so I would hate to see you keep taking zopiclone any longer than you have already. It really isn't a good medication to be taking all the time. Once a week might be okay, but trust me when I say I know how easily dependency can happen with that stuff. None of those prescription sleeping medications are good medications for regular use, and in fact no doctor should be prescribing them for regular use. There are a lot of countries now cracking down on the over-prescription of benzos and z-drugs (like zopiclone).
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Haven't read all the response, however, can you drop off in front of the TV? If so, have a blanket handy and sleep where your brain decides to!
That might work for some, but for me it usually had a paradoxical effect. I might nod off in front of the TV, but it would be a very light sleep which I would wake up from after maybe 30 minutes or so. That little bit of sleep would give me a second wind, which would mean I had absolutely no chance of getting any more sleep that night. I could quite often have afternoon naps, but that also made the problem worse because it would make sleeping at night even harder. It really was a no-win situation, so I have great sympathy for Peroxide because I totally understand what she is going through.
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Oh god - huge sympathy peroxideblader. I have had awful sleep trouble too but not as bad as yours. Things that have helped me (sometimes) have been the Paul McKenna I Can Make You Sleep DVD dn the Headspace app. And I got a prescription for sleeping herbs from a western medical herbalist - they cost about £30 for a month's supply and took 2/3 days to work. Good luck!
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Yes yes yes to Dana. Real insomnia is hell on earth. I can't even describe the desperation of being unable to sleep no matter what I did.
I was a martial arts instructor, used a gym three times a week, practised yoga and had completed the Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction programme, quit caffeine, was rattling with magnesium and B vitamins and valerian and lavender .... And simply could not sleep.
Peroxide, you may need a heavy duty med short term to restore some sleep, if nothing else is working.
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Dana you really do understand what I'm going through I could cry...no one understands the stress and devastation it causes and trip out the old wives tales and nothing works when it's hormonal we know that...I only cling onto the 1/8th dose of zopiclone because I know for the first week I stop totally I can expect NO SLEEP AT ALL...and I don't think my body or mental state could take that right now...I'm only worried about the hrt with so many people saying it didn't help at all but I know I'll put weight on..I've got a lifelong eating disorder which is in remission but a lot of Weight gain and still no sleep I couldn't cope with...but honestly Dana i feel so relieved you know what I mean how bad this big problem is when doctors will not agree that it's anything to do with peri....as for strong meds the other lady mentioned..what can I try to get sleep or are they all going to be too addictive x
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Sorry forgot to say Ms Saucy...thank you for offering me help with my son but it's very deep and very personal to him so I better not...it's so worrying and I'm scared I'll come home one day and he'll have ended his life...he keeps saying he wants to....no words any mum wants to hear..breaks you inside..but thanks for your kind offer
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Peroxideblader, it is devastating, it affects everything we do and our reactions.
Insomnia was my first symptom which started years before peri but I didn't relate it to hormones till I was almost a week without sleeping more than an hour. BCP stopped it and slept like a baby for the time taking it and now on hrt it is back and worsened on the Prog phase. This last week had four days of literally no sleep at all. I wasn't myself, emotional, over-reactive, clumsy as can be, anxious, you name it, I have it without sleep!
I've stopped going to the courses and group activities I'd signed on and don't know what to tell them. I moved here end of last years and engaged in lots of things this summer to meet new people and learn interesting things. Can't face anyone at the moment, it is so hard.
When we rest we do see things with a different realistic way.
I really hope you find a way to rest and feel your real self
a big hug
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Dana you really do understand what I'm going through I could cry...no one understands the stress and devastation it causes and trip out the old wives tales and nothing works when it's hormonal we know that...I only cling onto the 1/8th dose of zopiclone because I know for the first week I stop totally I can expect NO SLEEP AT ALL...and I don't think my body or mental state could take that right now...I'm only worried about the hrt with so many people saying it didn't help at all but I know I'll put weight on..I've got a lifelong eating disorder which is in remission but a lot of Weight gain and still no sleep I couldn't cope with...but honestly Dana i feel so relieved you know what I mean how bad this big problem is when doctors will not agree that it's anything to do with peri....as for strong meds the other lady mentioned..what can I try to get sleep or are they all going to be too addictive x
Yes I definitely know what you are going through. I also know that's cold comfort and doesn't help you sleep any better, but at least you know that when people look at you as if you're making it up, or that all those "sleep hygiene" things are all you need to do, you know it's all crap.
The lack of estrogen is an actual barrier that prevents you from sleeping. It's got nothing to do with just learning to relax, or stopping caffeine (although caffeine certainly won't help the problem), or having a hot bath, or reading a book, or exercise, yadda yadda yadda. I've heard it all.
I also find it funny (in a sick kind of way) when people say "you'll never die from a lack of sleep" and that the body will eventually give in and sleep, but what they don't tell you is that it can take a long time before your body "gives in". I've gone 3 days with absolutely no sleep at all, and the only way I got my body to give in was to give it a drug. People don't realise just how long the body can actually continue to function with practically no sleep. While this is happening, you are suffering from anxiety, depression, brain zaps, mental breakdown etc. So while you may not actually die from insomnia, you can die from the anxiety and depression that comes with it. Many were the nights when I thought about just taking an overdose and ending the whole thing. Had I not had two fur babies that needed me, who knows what I might have done.
Sadly any of the prescription sleeping medications (whether it be a benzodiazepine, tranquiliser, z-drug or whatever you want to call it) are all highly addictive. They affect the GABA receptors in the brain, and that's where you can get into a lot of trouble. They are good as very short term remedies, but none of them should be used continuously for more than a couple of weeks. Not everyone will have problems with these drugs. I used to mentor on a support forum for people wanting to come off these drugs and I know that lots of people could take them for an extended period of time and have no problems coming off them, but it is estimated that at least 30% of the population has a sensitivity to these drugs and will become very addicted very quickly, and I was one of those people. You may not be, but the problem is you won't know whether you will be affected until it's too late.
I know you have already said that you can't take antihistamines, but the things that saved me during my 2 year taper and 2 year healing process was an over the counter antihistamine called doxylamine (it comes under a number of brand names, depending on your country, like Unisom, Sleep Aid, Dozile, Restivit). This has a very effective sedation effect at very low doses. I never really needed to take much more than about 10mg, so maybe such a low dose may not effect you too much. It tends to cause restless legs when used at higher doses.
The other thing that really helped me was an amitriptyline antidepressant. The one I used was called Endep, but I'm in Australia so I don't know what other countries that one is available in. However, any kind of amitriptyline AD does have a sedating effect. Once again, it works best at low doses, as higher doses can cause restless legs. I never took much more than about 15mg and it worked really well.
Neither of these meds have the same addictive problems of sleeping tablets, although because I never wanted either of them to lose their effectiveness, when things would be really bad I would take one of them for 4-5 days and then I would switch to the other one for another 4-5 days, and then switch back again, and I never had any problems with stopping either of them.
To be honest, I think you will find far more people saying that HRT helped with their sleeping problems than those who say it doesn't. If you're like me your problem is a lack of estrogen, and you will be getting extra estrogen in the HRT. So hopefully it should really help you.
It is also definitely not inevitable that you will gain weight. We all like to blame other things for why we gain weight, but it's really our own fault most of the time. I'll admit I gained weight, and I blamed age, menopause, HRT, metabolism for it. I would blame anything other than myself, but after joining Weight Watchers last year I have now lost 20 pounds. I'm still on HRT, I'm still getting older, I'm still menopausal. The only thing that changed was I started being more aware of what I was shoving in my gob.
At the end of the day though, even if you do gain some weight, wouldn't you much rather be a little cuddlier, but be sleeping better? I really think you need to stop delaying the HRT, as hopefully it will help your problems. What's the worst that can happen? You really haven't got anything to lose.
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Dana has given really good advice there, Peroxide.
I'll tell you my story: I was diagnosed with PND after having weeks of terrible insomnia. Some nights I'd drop off only to wake a couple of hours later in full panic. Some nights I wouldn't sleep at all. There was always terrible anxiety with it. I never knew that this, for some women, is a classic sign of PND/hormonal fluctuations. I'd always thought someone who was 'depressed' was sleeping too much. I was given Sertraline and that made me MUCH worse, so I was quickly switched to Escitaopram, which had exactly the same effect.
I was terrified of taking a sleeping pill but I had to do something... the full 5mgs Zopicline did not help and I would still wake in a full panic, adrenaline rushing etc.
This persisted for 8 weeks until I realised I was not getting any better and had to do something immediately for my own safety. I was admitted to a lovely psych hospital and straightaway the Prof there gave me Olanzapine, telling me I was extremely agitated and far too activated by the SSRIs.
Olanzapine is often given to bipolar patients who are manic and cannot sleep. I cried my eyes out, thinking 'what? I'm not psychotic!' But to be brutally honest, if a doctor had handed me arsenic and told me it would make me sleep I would have taken it, I was that desperate after months of this awful insomnia.
It worked. It knocked me out completely. For the first while I felt groggy and sedated in the mornings but again, at that point I did not care about that. I had really gone into the depths with the lack of sleep and never, ever wanted to go there again.
I weaned off Olanzapine slowly with no issues at all, despite being prepared for a rough ride. I took it for one year, the lowest dose of 2.5mgs. I was taking no meds at all for the past 3.5 years...
Now I've hit peri and that classic insomnia is rearing its head again. It feels exactly the same as the PND.
Here's the kicker, when my oestrogen was 69p/mol in July (that of a woman in full menopause) I had sleep issues. When it was over 700 p/mol last month, I had sleep issues.
I know, for me, it is not a lack of oestrogen. It is fluctuations of oestrogen and probably a host of other hormones too. My norepinephrine has gone wacko and is responsible for that terrible insomnia.
I think that is why severe peri symptoms can be so hard to treat. My gynae told me I'd be much better of in full menopause with zero or very little oestrogen because at that point I can add it back until I hit the sweet spot. Right now, I'm all over the place, up and down so it's very hard to know when to top up and when to pull back.
Sorry for the essay! What I'm trying to say is this: Chronic insomnia, left untreated is extremely dangerous. I left it too long to sort out last time around and ended up in hospital. Any medical professional, be it a psychiatrist, a gynae, any of them, will tell you you must get restorative sleep. It is impossible to think rationally or function otherwise. Please don't let this persist. You may find HRT helps you, so get cracking on that. In the interim, if your sleep has not improved very soon, please do something about it.
I really hope you get some relief very soon.
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Thank you Dana and flufferama your advice is fantastic. And fluff I know what you are saying about lack of sleep I know I am on the edge and anything more I'll snap. When it had gone on a year I ended up having a full mental breakdown which is when I started on low dose of escitalopram which helped a little and zopiclone. It was the only thing that helped me sleep and for 3 months I was given it by my doctor only because I was suicidal..I weaned off to 1 tablet from 2 and now I take a quarter..I don't sleep on that dose now but I am so scared of stopping that final little amount as I'm worried the withdrawals will be too much for me to handle. Dana i know what you are saying and that I have to stop totally it's just so scary snd sadly I Googled the other sleep aid they don't do it anymore in the UK and as I said the others not only don't help me sleep they keep me up with worse restless legs than I usually have. I tried lots of antidepressant afyer my breakdown amiltrytiline being one of them. Sadly it make me very ill and I had to come off them. I have made the decision to go see my doctor to start hrt but now it's the million dollar question do I try femoston with the friendly prog or go for patches and gel..I don't like the idea of patches and gel I'd prefer a tablet as I can take it with my others but if I look at the previous posts some people have worst sleep on hrt....my other half is ready to leave me I'm sure as he sees my daily struggles and can't see why I'm not on hrt he thinks there's just one option..maybe I have to risk femoston at first give it a go..sadly my fiancé only fancies skinny women and if I got tubby he'd have even more reason to leave me..isn't life just crap! :(
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Please stop focusing on a few posts where women have said HRT didn't help them sleep. Usually you find what you are looking for, and I'm sure if you looked for the posts where HRT has helped women, you will find a lot more positive ones. The ones who have sleep issues with HRT are more than likely experiencing that with the progesterone component, not the estrogen, as it's the progesterone that tends to cause more of the problems for some women.
You also can't judge yourself against other women. If I did that I would be taking Utrogestan, but it doesn't agree with me, so I have to make the choices that suit me. My preferred method is Estradot 50mcg patches, with 5mg Provera taken for 10-12 days every second month. That works well for me, but of course everyone needs to find what works for them.
As to the kind of HRT that will be best for you, that's very much an individual thing. Some women love tablets, some love gel, some love patches. I've tried everything except gel, and for me patches seem to be best. I have also tried tablets and they were also okay, but they tended to lose their effectiveness after a while, which my doctor put down to my liver "working too well", but that's just me. It's possible that during my whole diazepam tapering experience my body simply wasn't working as well as it should have and the tablets suited me better then. However, as my whole body healed my liver started working better and that's when I found the tablets stopped working as well. That's my theory anyway. :)
You have to start somewhere, so pick the HRT you think will fit into your lifestyle the best. Most women need to try a few different types of HRT before they settle on the one they like the best. HRT is always trial and error, but you have to start somewhere.
If you want my honest opinion, I think when you first start with HRT you are best off keeping the estradiol and progesterone separate and being on a cycle, so you aren't taking the progesterone all the time. That way if one or the other isn't suiting you, you will know which one it is. If you are taking a combined HRT, and something's not feeling right, you won't know which component it is.
I'll just say one final thing - please stop focusing on other people. You need to be focusing on yourself. Your partner should be happy with you, regardless of whether you gain a bit of weight or not. Your overall mental health is far more important than whether you gain a little bit of weight, and that should be important to him as well. Even if you do gain some weight, that can be tackled later on, just like I did. The reason I put on weight was because of what I ate and lack of exercise, but that was also due to my overall depression and anxiety caused by all the trauma I went through with my diazepam dependency. I finally got over that, and then I tackled the weight. Take one step at a time.
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Peroxi, I fully sympathise! Just want to say that I have been on Femiston 2/10 for almost 3 years now and my sleep has dramatically improved, esp during the second half if the pack when you take estrogen and progesterone. And yes, the progesterone in Femoston is very good. And a final word - I did gain a bit of weight during the second year but dropped it off this year without trying. I think the weight was brought about from estrogen surges that have now subsided, and not from the HRT. I am convinced because I didn't move in weight for a whole of 12-13 months. If it was the Femoston, I would have seen changes within the first months. I am talking about 1-2 kilos, not more, which was probably bloating and water retention. This is gone now.
I think you should definitely at least try HRT!
All the best,
Milanam
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Thanks Dana and milimam...I know I shouldn't worry what others think and if I gain weight but I do..it's not a reason to not take hrt but it's another worry to add to my list...it's very started my period today on the exact day which has never happened in almost a year I'm always been 4 or 5 days early and now I'm convinced it's not peri with my period on time and that it's something undiscovered by my doctor...aarrgghhhhhhh what a mess I am...but anyway I'm going to try femoston first on my next period and hope it works for help8bg me sleep..milimum it's good to hear it's helped a lot with your sleeping thanks for your reassurance and I'll shut up for now until I've tried hrt then u can repost hopefully with good news..😊😊
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I have to say I sleep so much better on hrt than I did without Peroxideblader. Prior to starting on the patch I would be lucky to get a couple of hours sleep a night and it was as if a voice inside me wouldn't let me settle. I got the urge to keep turning over every few minutes and felt very on edge.... Nightmare!
I agree with the other ladies, give it a go for three months and then see how you feel.
As for weight gain, well, if you sleep better on it, you have more energy to keep active and help keep those excess pounds off. Good luck and let us know how you get on.
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Linz57 thanks for your encouragement..but I'm going on a pill for my first try is the tablet as good as a patch..I just lie awake for hours and hours like someone has switched my body on wide awake mode yet I'm dog tired..x
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There really isn't any right or wrong, or something being better than the other with hrt. Lots of women will have lots of preferences and opinions about what is better, but I'm a firm believer in using what works for you and suits your lifestyle.
The most important thing for you right now is to make a start. You can always experiment with other types later on.
Also please don't think you can't come here and have a good whinge about things, or talk about what's worrying you. This is the one place where everyone understands what you're going through. 😊
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Thanks everyone you've been great..I'm hoping to get on hrt next cycle and I've no doubt I'll be back on here for a worry..😊
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Hope you find some relief soon. I get a couple of nights a week, at most, where I fall asleep relatively quickly. The rest of the time it can take about 3 hours, no matter what time I go to bed. Last night was nearer 4 hours. I get up exhausted, but life has to go on. Drag myself around at times. Occasionally I nod off in the afternoon, but it makes no difference to my night time routine. In fact, on occasion, I've slept better at night after 40 winks in the afternoon.
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I wish I could sleep in the afternoon but it's like I've lost my off switch..last night was another 3am to sleep and like you said it doesn't matter if I don't go to bed til 3am I need 3 hours to get to sleep..can't believe my mother sailed through her menopause and my friends but for me it's ruined my life and it's only been 3 years of crap I've got about another ten years to go...shoot me now!@@
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Your GP could refer you to a sleep clinic. Somewhere safe where you can be monitored so see exactly what your brain activity is that might be activating your lack of sleep.
As for your son - think about what support you have had; what is available - there always is some. There are several support groups for those considering suicide.
SOBS
www.maytree.org.uk
www.suicidepreventionapp.com
Do have a look at these sites. He may need support individually apart from what he might tell family. There were things that I couldn't tell anyone except a stranger.
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Peroxideblader, I was still awake at 3am too. Murder isn't it? Reckon I got maximum 4 hrs last night. Hope I get a decent sleep tonight! So tired!
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CLKD...my gp won't refer me to a sleep clinic as he has done blood tests etc and he can't find anything medically wrong and suspects its peri due to my age...he doesn't take my insomnia seriously and tried deterring me telling me there is a 12-18 month waiting list for a sleep clinic...plus they tend to monitor you when you are asleep especially your brain patterns but I don't sleep in the first place...and thanks for the info for my son but how did you know about suicide issues ?? 😊
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And cubagirl it is awful isn't it ...being on your own in the middle of the night is the worst time to be alone and awake and the hours just drag when you are just desperate for sleep...are you in peri or on hrt can I ask..
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I personally don't think there is any point to a sleep clinic. When it would appear that your problem is caused by hormones, what's a sleep study going to do to help?
Unfortunately so many people simply don't understand what hormonal insomnia is like, and it's not taken seriously, or they think the solution is simply a case of doing things that never help anyway.
IMHO your only solution will be HRT, and the sooner you start it the better off you'll be. Start it today if you can. You can't continue on the way you have been.
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Thanks Dana...just feel like people think I'm lying or exaggerating how I feel when they've never heard of the debilitating insomnia I have..they always say well you can't be tired or you'd sleep ....bla bla bla heard it all..and yes I wish I could start hrt today but my monthly started last Friday and I'm not seeing doctor for another 3 weeks...so glad you understand Dana and that I have tried EVERYTHING 😊
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I'm post Meno & still on HRT, oestrogen only. My friend is post Meno also & no longer on HRT & she suffers badly with insomnia too. The things they never told us. Hope my daughter's generation will be treated better, at least they'll be more informed having heard us rabbiting on about the menopause!
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Thanks Dana...just feel like people think I'm lying or exaggerating how I feel when they've never heard of the debilitating insomnia I have..they always say well you can't be tired or you'd sleep ....bla bla bla heard it all..and yes I wish I could start hrt today but my monthly started last Friday and I'm not seeing doctor for another 3 weeks...so glad you understand Dana and that I have tried EVERYTHING 😊
Yes I get it. Strangely, for some reason, severe hormonal insomnia, or the total lack of sleep (not the kind where you just lose a few hours of sleep a night) seems to be something that even other meno ladies sometimes discount, or think that just following any or all of those "sleep hygiene" remedies is all you need to do. Maybe it's because it's not as common as the more "well known" symptoms, but that doesn't make it any less of a serious symptom. In fact it's probably the most serious of symptoms because lack of sleep affects absolutely everything in your body, leads to things like anxiety and depression, which in turn can lead to life threatening tendencies.
I don't suffer from VA or had hot flushes that were that bad, or any other symptoms that are more common, yet I would never discount what other women are going through with those problems, so please, even if you have never suffered from hormonal insomnia, please don't discount how serious and debilitating it is, or that anyone is exaggerating. In all honestly, before I went on to HRT, if I had been able to swap my insomnia for half a dozen other symptoms I would have done it in a heart beat. Anything to be able to sleep.
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I'm the same I live with trigeminal neuralgia and drpression and anxiety already but as painful and life changing aa they are this inability to get to sleep is far worse. It's made my depression much worse and my all round health. But I still keep being told by my doctor it's not meno related it's my life style and anxiety and when everyone keeps telling you it's your fault not hormonal you believe them. My neighbour went on hrt just to stop hot flushes but I don't mind them and the irregular periods just NO SLEEP. I will try hrt on my next period but if it doesn't help this is my last resort..and then I'll be fatter and still not sleeping...guess I'm scared I'll be the small percentage it doesn't help and then game over.