Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: jasper on September 19, 2016, 09:43:46 AM
-
Hi again, I've posted quite a lot recently about my problems with a trial of Evorel (estrogen only so far as I was still having normal periods while taking it) for my major migraine problem. It worked for the first month and when I increased dose but then would stop (and is causing joint pain). I've just got off the phone to Anne Macgregor who is now suggesting I try Zoely (bioidential estrogen, synthetic prog) for 3 months to switch my cycle off so that we can see if this helps. She had originally suggested Mirena + patch but says given that my cycle is still causing problems, this isn't the best way forward now anyway (relieved as didn't want to try it).
Pretty worried about trying Zoely but it seems a logical step to take next.. Anyone here been ok with it (or not)? She seems to think it's a better alternative to Qlaira.
thanks a lot as ever
ps meant to say I am meant to take it 3 months back to back, cutting out the estrogen free placebo days
-
Hi Jasper
Strangely I am googling Zoely as we speak. Hadn't heard of it before but really interested as to how you get on.
I was contemplating Qlaria but was concerned about the differing phases of progesterone.
I was on evorel sequi and really don't think it was strong enough for me. I crash during my period and also mid month. I'm not having regular periods though. I'm 45, what about you? X
-
Hi Mis71Mum,
I'm 47 but still having regular cycle. I was reacting better to the patch initially or when I increased dose but otherwise problems were just resurfacing, in a similar patter to you. Specialist seemed to think Zoely a better version as she said Qlaria was the first attempt at including oral bioidentical estrogen but she didn't elaborate. It has 4 placebo pill days with no estrogen/prog I think and is otherwise monophasic, but as mentioned, I have been told to try it continuously for the first 3 months (assuming I can tolerate it at all!!). As I didn't take a version of Evorel with progesterone, I don't yet know how I will react to that.
-
Funny that as I have mentioned Zoely on a couple of threads recently too! The main difference is that Qlaira vaguely tries to mimic the phases of the menstrual cycle so has 3 different strengths of oestrogen, 1 mg 2 mg and 3 mg, only has 2 placebo days, and has 22 days with oestrogen and progestogen, the remaining 4 with oestrogen alone. Zoely has a constant dose of oestrogen and progestogen all the days it is taken (24) with 4 placebo days. Qlaira would be better for those whose hormones take a dip at the end of the month and marginally better for those who dislike progestogens. However if you take Zoely back to back this isn't an issue and you will get a constant dose of hormones so theoretically no mood crashes dips etc - as long as you tolerate the progestogen OK.
I think if you're under 50 and troubled by mood swings and increasing pms then it sounds like a good option to try anyway.
Hurdity x
-
Excuse me ignorance, but if you take the pill back to back, what happens to your period? Is this an option if you are in peri with very irregular cycles?
-
Thanks a lot Hurdity. Fingers crossed I can tolerate it and also that it doesn't raise BP in the way that standard COP does (Prof Macgregor appeared to think it was less risky on that front). Constant levels are what I need I think as my migraines are heavily reactive to any change in estrogen levels (especially downwards), hard to say re progesterone as I haven't been on it yet. I don't have too much of a problem with PMS etc but the migraines more than make up for that! I am 47 so it does feel very late in the day to be doing this (I haven't been on COP for 13 years since pre kids) but I am desperate.
Hi Mis71Mum - I would imagine so as it is going to shut down your normal cycle so to speak (or that's the hope with me) and you would just have a bleed after 3 months.
-
Hi Jasper Interested in knowing you took zoely and how you are going with it now. I had been prescribed zoely by one doctor as well but then my gynae wanted me to try out tibilone and see how I go with it after AD did not work during perimenopause for me. Please keep posted as to how you went with it
-
Hi Ladies
Can you get Zoely or Qlaria on NHS prescription? My meno consultant has suggested I change from gel to combined pill to switch off my cycle. I have been on a downward spiral since the start of the month and my anxiety is hard to control. I am heading to Chamonix for Christmas and dreading feeling like this. Normally I would have picked up by now but I can't seem to shift the low mood this month. I usually have a dip around day 7/8 of my cycle for around a week then level out again and I'm fine. I am only 41 and in peri stage. How quickly does the combined pill take effect?
WMLB
-
Yes both Zoely and Qlaira should be free (to you) on NHS as they are contraceptive pills so your regular doc or family planning clinic should be able to supply them (give your reasons)! Hopefully others may advise as to whether you can sometimes encounter resistance from health-care practitioners when asking for these preps?
I presume if you take the pills back to back to some extent they work a bit like continuous combined HRT ie the same oestrogen and progestogen every day. However given that a bleed is normally expected in the 4 placebo pill days - this implies that the progestogen dose is not sufficient to keep the lining thin - but is sufficient to provide contraception - hence it is a contraceptive pill and not and HRT preparation. Having a bleed every 3 months minimises the oestrogen dip and progestogen withdrawal symptoms (which would occur every 4 weeks with the normal cycle of Zoely) but allows the lining to shed. That's how I understand it anyway :)
Zoely is not a very high oestrogen dose though (1.5 mg per day when taken). here is the detailed product info about it: http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/27581/SPC/ (the warnings are pretty standard for HRT and the Pill).
Hurdity x
-
Pam,
Sorry for the slow response. Fraid I gave up after 2 months as I was having issues with neck pain / base of the skull for 6 weeks. Am pretty gutted as I am now in the midst of my standard post period migraine which is horrendous 😢. Hope it works for you x
-
so sorry to hear this. wish you find something that works like all of us.
-
Hi Ladies
I spoke with my GP yesterday and she is going to have to put forward a case for them to prescribe either Qlaria or Zoely, the pill they have prescribed is called Rigevidon does anyone have any experience of taking this particular brand?
WMLB
-
I seem to remember someone mentioning it - just looked it up and contains the standard synthetic oestrogen ethinylestradiol + synthetic prog (the same as in Mirena and Femseven patches - levonorgestrol ) - so it's whether you want to go down this route or have something that contains bio-identical oestrogen ie estradiol as in Qlaira and Zoely. Maybe you've been on the CCP before and got on OK with it?
Hopefully someone with experience of this will be along - I think GypyRoseLee tried a couple of pills but I think one was Marvelon....you could try searching for threads about this particular pill - go to Forum home page.
Hurdity x
-
Hi
As I suspected my GP won't prescribe Zoely or Qlaria on the grounds of insufficient prescribing history and cost. I have been offered Millinette as an alternative and see how I get along with It!
WMLB x
-
My gp prescribed zoely on Thursday No problem at all! really hope it helps!!
-
Tinkerbell how are youwithzoely . I have been taking tibilone this month but cannot speak highly if it. I have two melt downs this week. Really looking for answers also with periods this week things have gone pear shape for me. Maybe I will have try out Zoley. Thanks
-
Had to stop zoely. hot flushes back with a vengeance and running to the loo ebery five minutes. ALso terrible cramps just like patches and previous tablet hrt. back to the drawing board. mood still terrible
-
Tinkerbellj - I had the hot flush problem too - noticeably worse than when on evorel patch :-( Sorry to hear it didn't work for you
-
sorry to hear about it tinkerbellj and jasper. What are you two doing now in terms of hrt. I feel equally lost as well. Not knowing what to do as well. I had great hopes that hrt will help but no good so far.
-
Sorry to hear about the side effects from Zoely - but do remember that any treatment is going to take a while to settle and for your body to acclimatise - most - even bio-identical oestrogen preparations - will cause some side effects and bodily changes. However I know that some women cannot tolerate any tablet HRT due to stomach problems - and I'm not sure whether these settle - I've never taken oral HRT and took the pill 40 years ago for about a year, so can't comment!
However you should be able to find some form/dose of transdermal HRT that does help, hopefully?
Hurdity x
-
Back to the oestrogen gel. and them seven days of 20mg utgestrogen vaginally everyonth. although haven't needed the progesterone the last dew months as period came on its own without it!!
-
how are you feeling with oestrogen gel ? did you take it because of fatigue or anxiety issues. Please share to look at various options.
-
Been on the gel a year on max dose for 6 months. takes away flushes and constantly running to the loo but does nothing for anxiety fatigue or severe joint and mussle pain. I feel pregnant all the time which is impossible cuz I have zero libido! !
-
Thanks for sharing information. I hope you can try some alternate hrt to help out with anxiet and joint pain. I guess you are peri at the moment. Sorry I'm not of much help.
-
No u did help. just having someone to talk to is always a help. I have meno clinic appt next week. Not holding out hope beem at this two years and 6 different hrt and still. Can't shift this low.mood cranky horrible person who has invadedy whole life :-(
-
same here. struggling for years through peri. tried yasmin, AD, mirena and tibilone. please keep posted of what is next for you as I will also see gynae next week aswell.
-
jasper how has zoely gone for you. Please share it.
-
Zoely didn't work for me I'm afraid Pam - I was told to give it 3 months but had to give up after 2 as I had constant upper body muscle pain and neck/head pain for 6 weeks.
I'm now back on 50 Evorel but have now had 3 really heavy periods (since stopping the Zoely) so I really don't know what to do. Wondering if I should try coming off it completely to see if it is actually helping me or not (its been nearly a year) but worried I will have a really bad crash (fatigue and pain due to my chronic lyme). Otherwise not sure if there is any benefit in trying to get hold of utrogestan and taking it regularly to try to offset possible balance problem and too much estrogen (causing heavy bleeding)???? I don't see any benefit in taking utrogestan every month/couple of months to induce bleed as I already have a regular (and now heavy) period on the Evorel. Is there any point in trying it daily?
thanks everyone....
-
Jasper I am sure we were separated at birth ;D off to work now but will post later didnt want to read and run xxx
-
Hideous migraine back again reliably on time day 4-5 as my period ends. The rest of the month I seem to be able to withstand fluctuations +evorel but at this point I can't. When I look at hormone charts all I can see is that there is a rise in estrogen at this point? This will last 4 or more days .....evorel meaning too much ? I am fairly ok during period and actually feel at best shortly before!
-
Hi
That's strange as I am the same today, been doing ok on Millenette up to now apart from horrendous pmt last week. Today I have been dizzy, nauseous and exhausted, with slight anxiety. I have been taking Millenette continuously for 38 days, and had a slight show in discharge last Friday and again on Monday. I'm not really sure what's meant to happen when you take the pill continuously, does it take a while for everything to get into sync?
WMLB