Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: walking the dog on September 10, 2016, 09:57:06 PM
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On advice of menopause specialist I was taking 200mg orally (vaginally gave me thrush) daily to try and thin womb lining. Felt ok then six weeks in felt terrible mood rock bottom crying irritable angry etc saw gp who said stop taking it but start again day one of month for 14 days as that's my normal regime however 1st month came and I mentally couldn't bring myself to take it as was convinced it would affect my mood again. However I was still using the estradoit 50 patch which I knows wrong to do so without the progesterone especially with my already existing endometrial hyperplasia. Saw gp Tuesday and told her she persuaded me to take the utrogestran again so I forced myself Tuesday evening to swallow it. Now between Aug 17 and September 6 my moods been great . 7th I woke up in floods of tears really anxious which turned to panic 8th got worse basically wanted to die 9th same , I couldn't take anymore and was convinced its the utrogestran so last night ithought I'm not taking it today I woke up fine mood back to normal. Is this really coincidence or does is sound like the progesterone is severely affecting my mood ? My GP has managed to get me a slightly earlier appointment at menopause specialist but its still two weeks awsy. I really dont want to stop the estradoit but I cant take the progesterone. Should I try and see my GP on Monday ? Any advice would be appreciated xx
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I think the problem could be that you were taking it continuously. A lot of women don't cope well taking any kind of progestogen every day. Maybe the answer for you will be a cycle, where you will only take prog for about 12 days a month. This will keep your lining thin and will also mean you only have to cope with a short term dose of the prog, which for you sounds like it would be okay seeing as you seem to cope okay with it initially.
Another option could be than you just don't cope well with Utrogestan. A lot of women don't, but they do quite well on Provera (medroxyprogesterone). It's an individual choice.
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Usually on a continuous regime you only use 100mg per day so you were using double ! You could try this if you wanted to. You could also just use the estrogen only until you see specialists in two weeks time it wont cause any harm alough you could get a bleed from stopping the progesterone,but at least that way your lining will have shed if it needs to so could start again with a clean slate so to speak. Hope you feel better soon.
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Thank you Dana and dazned
I cant face taking the progesterone again so will just use the estradoit patch til I'm at specialist . I currently feel like I never want to use progesterone ever again but realise that's not an option xx
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Update ! Started brown spotting Monday Tuesday then on Wednesday evening bright red streak of blood nothing overnight then a normal bleed yesterday but only needed one sanitary towel nothing overnight and nothing today ! Very up down emotionally
Please tell me its hormones causing this , I'm still on the 50 estradoit patch but no progesterone ,
I'm beginning to think I may have to come off hrt 😐
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Hi menomale been on estradoit since Feb had other oral hrt before that. I knew id get a bleed but its this start stop different bleeding every day I can't fathom out why I dont just have a normal bleed ?
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All the tests and procedures I have had over past six years I have never had my hormone levels tested my GP said its not worth it as in peri they are,all over place and the specialist now,says I'm post menopausal! Just started to bleed again and got low stomach cramp now ! Fed up with been a woman !
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A family member works high up in a hospital lab and he said tests on female hormones only show a snapshot of the picture on that day which is why gps are reluctant to order them,in fact where I used to live if you were over 45 the labs wouldn't do them . Symptoms are really then only thing they should go on as unfortunatel there's no way of getting your levels checked daily which then would give an accurate picture.
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That's exactly what my GP said dazned and the way my hormones are I think id have to have blood tests every minute ! I know it sounds funny but that's how bad I feel !
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The same as me,every minute would be no lye :-\
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Big hug from me Michelle46 xx
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Thankyou walkingthedog x
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Hi walking the dog
Was it you who had a thickened lining and you were given the high dose of utrogestan to reduce it?
If so I seem to remember saying that it might be better to take one of the synthetic progestogens for a short time as they are very good at dealing with thickened lining. Then have a good bleed, and then start back on the regime that you prefer once it's thin?
The only other alternative is to use it vaginally at the dose prescribed and it will also do a good job without the severe side effects from oral use. Is it possilbe you can do this for a while?
I have only ever used utrogestan vaginally and my womb lining is fine - it was approx 4 mm after recent bleed when I had a scan, and I am on a 6-8 week cycle.
Hurdity x
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Walking, sorry you are suffering like this. I know just how you feel.
I'm having a really severe reaction to Utro this month (though I only took 100mg for 6 days). As soon as I started Utro I felt really off. On edge, anxious, no pleasure in anything. Disrupted sleep. Took last one Sunday night as just couldn't stand it any longer.
Bleed started on Wednesday and anxiety went through the roof. Feel like I have a permanent lump in my throat. Tearful. Horrible.
But, saw a wonderful locum GP today who specialises in Menopause and she has advised I move to only taking Utro for one week every 3 months. She says it perfectly safe to do this as I still have some of my own progesterone. No need for scans either.
She said she would also recommend I be prescribed diazepam to take during the week that I do take Utro next time, to combat any anxiety.
She is also refering me to see a consultant about a possible hysterectomy and ovary removal on the NHS.
She agreed that blood tests are pointless as hormone levels surge and drop from minute to minute, literally. This is why our mood swings are so sharp and sudden. I loved her for confirming that, because my own GP was very sceptical when I said U can go from feeling dreadful to normal in the time it takes to drink a cup.of tea.
She was more helpful and understanding than any other GP I have ever dealt with.
Could this be an option for you.
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Careful on Diazepam though. I had it one night for insomnia, was perfect. Second night didn't work and made the anxiety worse.
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I have taken it in the past and it tends to make me feel quite depressed. So I will try and do without it. If I only have to face this Hell once every three months I should be able to cope.
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Yes I was /am meant to be on huge dose of progesterone daily but cant face it I'm bleeding terrible at minute now on two sanitary towels every half hour and my moods so low I just keep crying in sick of my life to be honest its got to the point where I dont care about the hyperplasia as my moods my bigger concern I can't carry on like this but I'm not getting any help to sort it out
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I second being careful with Diazepam. An occasional 2mg is probably ok, but I had 6mg over 12 hours in 2mg doses and had pretty severe confusion and short term memory loss for 2 days! I was told that it was unusual, but upon discussing it further with a psychiatric ward senior nurse I was warned that rebound anxiety if you use it regularly is a beast too (and yes, it can make you feel depressed). :-\
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Hi all. I have just moved from continuous use of utrogestan to sequel (I'm 5 yrs meno and uses eastrogel) couldn't cope with the tiredness after 2 weeks on it. I am 4 days into my 12 day use of utrogestan and have been in tears most of the morning. I didn't experience this and such a low mood before. I'm using 100mg virginally. Any ideas?
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I have a theory about the ones who love the utrogestan. I suspect their estrogen or testosterone still a little lower than ideal for them. The body can convert progesterone to the other hormones. When I was on 37.5 estrogen patches, my best days were on the utro. Now, on 50 estrogen, I have a rougher time on and following the utro. I'm thinking I was getting a little more estrogen from converting the progesterone and that was making me feel better during that phase. I thought about asking for continuous progesterone even though I'm not a year without periods, but boosting my estrogen seemed to give me the same positive outcome. I guess it all goes back to finding your own sweet spot to balance it all out.
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Hi meno mate. I took it for just over 2 weeks but was so tired it was effecting my work badly. I have felt pretty good on the eastrogel but was still getting warm moments on 2 pumps when my flushes had gone on 2 pumps when I used the utrogestan continuously. I can't stand feeling low and crying even though I no it is the hormones playing up! This is the 4th type of hrt I have tried and I just end up an emotional wreck on it!!
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Yes I was /am meant to be on huge dose of progesterone daily but cant face it I'm bleeding terrible at minute now on two sanitary towels every half hour and my moods so low I just keep crying in sick of my life to be honest its got to the point where I dont care about the hyperplasia as my moods my bigger concern I can't carry on like this but I'm not getting any help to sort it out
Hi again walking the dog
As I said in my other post below - if you are needing a high dose of progesterone for a temporary period of time to thin the endometrium then it would be better to take one of the synthetic types, the reason being that much smaller doses are needed because the molecular formulation is more stable. Progesterone itself (as in utrogestan) breaks down very quickly in the body so larger doses have to be taken - especially orally - for sufficient to be absorbed. it is the large doses and the metabolic by products that cause most of the unpleasant sdie effects. When you have thinned the endometrium - you can then go back to a lower dose either every day ( the 100 mg) or the 200 mg cyclically - and vaginally you could probably just take it for 10-11 days.
Hurdity x
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I think some women can tolerate progesterone if it's consistent in their system. I think what causes the havoc is 'changes' in the level of progesterone.
Last year when I was on a BCP continuously, I had a brief 4 day break from it (by accident) and it made me feel absolutely dreadful.
Then when I suddenly stopped Femoston 2/10 halfway through the combined tabs I had another horrific experience.
And now, even on high dose oestrogen I get wobbles when anything happens to change my hormone levels. So when I ovulate, or when I finish Utro, or when my own oestrogen starts to rise.
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I'm taking it vaginally, so this "good" sedating effect is not happening to me, maybe it happens just via oral route.
The sedating effect can occur vaginally too - it does with me - but presumably not as pronounced as with oral use (which I have never tried - I probably would find it even more difficult to wake up than I do already, every day!). Lucky for you that you don't experience this!
Hurdity x
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Utrogestean seemed to suit me at first but as times went on it makes me feel suicidali dont get any of the relaxed sleep feeling people talk about I'm like a wound up screaming banshee on it ! Cant have mirena plus if could wouldn't want risk it as I'm now coninced I'm progesterone intolerant currently using estrogen without progesterone on my own decision until see menopause specialist in just over a week feel totally gutted hrt hasn't helped 😢
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I have a theory about the ones who love the utrogestan. I suspect their estrogen or testosterone still a little lower than ideal for them. The body can convert progesterone to the other hormones. When I was on 37.5 estrogen patches, my best days were on the utro. Now, on 50 estrogen, I have a rougher time on and following the utro. I'm thinking I was getting a little more estrogen from converting the progesterone and that was making me feel better during that phase. I thought about asking for continuous progesterone even though I'm not a year without periods, but boosting my estrogen seemed to give me the same positive outcome. I guess it all goes back to finding your own sweet spot to balance it all out.
I wasn't aware that progesterone is ever converted into estradiol or tesosterone. I know they're all on related pathways and derive from cholesterol but in practice does this ever happen? If this were the case we could all take progesterone only and be OK for oestrogen - which is not the case :-\
Hurdity x
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I think some women can tolerate progesterone if it's consistent in their system. I think what causes the havoc is 'changes' in the level of progesterone.
Last year when I was on a BCP continuously, I had a brief 4 day break from it (by accident) and it made me feel absolutely dreadful.
Then when I suddenly stopped Femoston 2/10 halfway through the combined tabs I had another horrific experience.
And now, even on high dose oestrogen I get wobbles when anything happens to change my hormone levels. So when I ovulate, or when I finish Utro, or when my own oestrogen starts to rise.
Yes that's true GypsyRoseLee - most women feel the effects of progesterone withdrawal - after all this is classic pmt just before a period. Some women also react to the rapid rise ( but more often to the fall). However those who react negatively to its presence (as well as changing levels) are progesterone intolerant to a greater or lesser extent. The others aren't - it is normal to feel the effects of the changes that occur as levels fall sharply - some do experience this more than others though.
Hurdity x
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Hi menomale (apologies for spelling your name wrong last time). I tried a sequi tablet form (can't remember the name) when I was still in peri but it totally wrecked me within a week. I left it until I was definitely meno and tried a continuous tablet (again I can't remember the name) but I bleed extremely heavily every month and was in agony and also the low mood got worse so I stopped after 6 months. I had another break for 2 odd years then tried the evenol conti 50 patches. Initially it was great but after 6 weeks I ended up suicidal. As I said I started the continuous gel and utrogestan but I was so tired I switched to the sequi. I'm wondering if I upped my eastrogel whilst on the utrogestan it may help but then again!!!!
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Re progesterone converting to other hormones:
I think this may depend on where you are in peri or menopause and also what your individual baseline levels of hormones and enzymes are. Some people may be more sensitive than others.
Every time I have used either vaginal or sublingual progesterone (both avoid digestion and liver metabolism on first pass thru body), my total testosterone blood level goes up to highest normal range and sometimes higher and the free testosterone increases some also. It takes forever for it to go down (months). If I take it orally at 100mg, my testosterone level stays in mid to lower normal range for my age. I don't like it to be high because I don't like how it makes me feel, makes my bladder worse, and I get acne spots mostly on the buttock area. Taking it orally at 200mg causes testosterone to rise also, but not as much as vaginal or SL dose. I don't cycle so I use prog 25 days/mo.
So...I am a believer in this. However, it has never shown to change my estrogen level appreciably...maybe because I am taking estrogen too via patch?? :-\ I am menopausal > 5 yrs.
A
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Higher testosterone made me testy and made my bladder burn a lot (prog was high at this time also, so could have been due to either or both). But I wasn't taking any testosterone....when prog dose was lowered, the test levels slowly went down.Muscle mass maybe a little better. Gained weight though. Libido I couldn't answer....VA and bladder pain was so bad at the time, no way I was thinking of sex....just trying to get through the day.
Never used prog gel....only prometrium vaginally was tried and sublingual compounded progesterone troches.
No idea of current estrogen levels...my baseline is 5-7 pg/ml with no HRT....currently using 50 patch and it works for me.
Haven't had any tests in last year or so since I finally found the dose that seems to handle my issues well that I can tolerate.