Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: dangermouse on September 10, 2016, 08:47:06 AM
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Been learning about caffeine, adrenaline etc. and found that adrenaline (and stimulants like caffeine and oestrogen) will make you feel alert (in a good way) but only turns to a stress response (jittery, palps etc.) if there isn't enough glucose in your liver. Hence, the reason energy drinks balance caffeine and sugar and make you feel good as opposed to if you had the equivalent in caffeine in a strong coffee and would feel jittery.
I know many of you here, particularly CLKD, points out the importance of eating every few hours to keep the stress down. So I was wondering if you might try an experiment and when you next get the horrible jitters to have a large amount of sugar (fruits, fruit juices, cola etc. rather than slower carbs) to see if this relaxes you more.
Let us know if you try it and how you get on!
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I'll try it. I'll try bl@@dy anything to get rid of anxiety!
Xx
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Interesting point but I think the jitteriness would be relieved for a while but then surely the blood sugar would plunge even further meaning you would have to have more sugar? Not sure it would be good for the adrenals?
Taz x
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I use Dextrose when necessary. Or thick slabs of fruit cake when walking. Staves the stomach.
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Interesting point but I think the jitteriness would be relieved for a while but then surely the blood sugar would plunge even further meaning you would have to have more sugar? Not sure it would be good for the adrenals?
Taz x
Oh yes, the instant sugar test is more to check if its what the body is needing. The theory is that adrenal stress is already happening from the lack of sugar to support the excess stimulation, so its to replenish what should already be there. Perhaps longer term, enough carbs needs to be consumed to keep the liver topped up with glycogen as more is needed when the adrenals have more demand on them.
I used to do intermittent fasting and this starts off making you feel great as you are getting an adrenal rush of energy from the extended ketosis state (beyond the one we naturally have during sleep) but months later my adrenal glands struggled to cope with the low sugar state and it no longer made me feel good.
I got used to fearing sugar, thinking it was bad for me, but not having enough I'm sure is equally bad for us.
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We don't need to eat sugar! I agree with Taz that it's not a good idea to get the body used to surges of sugar taken externally and slow release foods surely are the way to go otherwise we can develop insulin resistance and as Taz says need more sugar. Our body is designed to function properly and produce sugar when we need it! I don't go along with the idea of struggling adrenals as such - we should control stress by natural means.
Hurdity x
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Oh dear me, no!!! Not sugar. Low GI foods yes, to keep blood sugar stable but not great big sugar surges or you'll get an even bigger crash later! :o
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Oh give me :cake: ;) ;D
I survived on chocolate buttons at a time when I wouldn't eat much else! Chocolate has minerals etc. and in small amounts is good for us ……… it's the only food stuff that melts at body temperature. I have eaten lots of honey over the years though I've 'gone off' it recently. I love it when it's sugary.
When walking I notice low blood sugar because I set off too fast ::), don't pace myself and then get that awful nausea ….. s we always carry lots of quick fixes as well as cooked, cooled pasta or rice mixes .
A varied diet should give us what we require but as we don't in general exercise as our bodies are built to do >shrug< ….. we don't burn it off …….. when I think of what my Grandparents ate and how much exercise they did, maybe there's a lesson there? Also, the times I eat has changed to when I was growing up in that our cooked meals were at noon and a lighter supper was served around 6.00 p.m. Anyone else changed when they eat their mains?
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It's not about excess sugar, it's about keeping glycogen stores topped up if they're too low. It's all about balance.
Also, if there are any women like me who favoured protein over carbs and/or have done any intermittent fasting then this can play havoc with the adrenals when your glycogen stores are running on empty. Yes we can get energy from fat but it's an emergency way to get it so once again it evokes a stress response.
I'm having more fresh carrot and beetroot juice for example and am feeling more balanced already. Slow carbs are great but they won't digest as fully as glucose and fructose because of the fibre, so you may not be as topped up as you think.
If the test works for you then you know for sure what is lacking and can then look into healthy ways of keeping glycogen topped up.
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I get you, dangermouse!
Yes, this sounds like an idea to test to see if this is the case. I'll give it a go myself. Anything has to be worth a try. :)
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Off to test it by having some breakfast ;D
Regular meals with slow release carbs are the way forward - I feel better on that sort of regime.
Love fruit cake - sugar rush, slow release carbs and soluble fibre for the transit problems - all in one delicious package ;D
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Ooh, must get some fruit cake! :)
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As I said before, I really would not get into the habit of topping up your glycogen stores by eating sugar. It really is not the way to go! Your glycogen will be fine if you eat a normal (balanced healthy) diet and eat regularly - and in relation to the exercise you take, and if you are otherwise healthy. Slow release carbs (and fewer refined carbs generally) are definitely the way to go to regulate blood sugar levels. Athletes eat a meal of pasta the day (?evening) before an important fixture. If you are concerned with morning blood sugar, then eat slow release carbs during the evening. Also plenty of protein!
Glucose is not digested - it is absorbed straight into the blood stream as is fructose. All other foods are digested or metabolised in some way and we are designed to work like this, and not to eat pure glucose!
Nice idea dangermouse - but in this case Tempest - I would say it is not really "worth a try" for reasons Taz and I have already given. Glucose tablets and the like should only be reserved for diabetics or very occasionally for those who get reactive hypoglycaemia and might suddenly find themselves with the shakes and sweats in an inconvenient place with no time to sit down and eat something slow release.
CLKD - if you are getting low blood sugar very soon after exercise ie walking fast - then you are not eating enough slow release foods or at the right time. My weak time energy wise is morning so I try to eat a big breakfast and often something else mid morning, as well as a medium sized lunch.
Hurdity x
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Yep. That's why Dextrose is my go-to followed by cake ;D - over the years I have learned how to manage it by carrying energy bars as used by Pro-cylists etc..
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Good old fashioned porridge is a great breakfast food as it releases the carbs slowly.
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Certainly I found swapping from toast, butter, to a cereal with lots of grains and nuts stopped that mid-morning hunger, although I have to eat enough! A little milk added or it can be eaten 'neat'.
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Re. Nick Panay thread... Oh that's so good Tempest, glad the fruit additions helped someone as the jittery feeling is beyond horrible!
Yes CLKD, you do always tell us what a difference it makes and the 3 hour eating is so the opposite of what I used to do! About 15 years ago I did daily intermittent fasting (Warrior Diet) where I ate very little during the day and had my main calories in the evening. My insulin went low so I had no sugar cravings and I craved healthy food (as I was probably in need of the nutrients!). It worked great for the first year, had tonnes of energy, lost excess weight and felt motivated and switched on at work. However, I was never then right after that year and felt exhausted all the time and I now understand that keeping insulin low creates a stress response from the adrenal glands, and the nice uplift it used to give me turned into a burn out type feeling.
My main addition is freshly squeezed orange juice which I, at first, was guzzling as if I'd just been rescued from a dessert island. After a few days though I only fancied the one glass as I believe my glycogen is nicely topped up. More recently I used to have lots of pasta (wholemeal) as I craved it so much but it did little to make me feel better. I suspect it's the sugar hitting he bloodstream more quickly that, for me, was what I needed.
I also did the Candida Diet about 5 years ago (had slow digestion) which avoids sugar almost completely. I felt awful but just assumed it was some kind of detox reaction but low sugar never made me feel better and symptoms just became worse and worse.
I don't know if the low glycogen stores was why I had such an intense reaction to the oestrogen surges (could only drink milk for 2 months due to severe nausea) as it would make sense if this lack of sugar meant my adrenal and thyroid glands couldn't cope? Or that may be a separate issue and purely down to the high oestrogen.
I also had to stop the flaxseed I was having recently as it was giving me terrible gas pains (not from the fibre as the pure oil did the same) and now realise all nuts and seeds have caused me digestive issues. Bowel transit is great now though.
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Your body makes sugar from carbohydrate which is in many foods so your insulin should not go low even if you avoid sugars in the diet - just normal and stable rather than unnaturally high and spiking intermittently.
Hurdity x
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Sorry, I meant my blood sugar stayed low so I wasn't having the insulin spikes. I was in ketosis during the day so was getting my energy from fat.
Although I stopped being strict about it when I felt it no longer made me feel good, I've always tried to extend my nighttime fast as long as possible. I did try on several occasions to eat every 3 hours but it would make me too ravenous as if my blood sugar was permanently high despite having lots of complex carbs and protein.
For some reason replenishing with fast release carbs has made me feel more rebalanced and the cravings have gone. Perhaps the frequent fasting kept me in a glycogen deficit?
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I have been fanatical about low sugar and low GI foods this past 18 months and have felt hideous!! I can't still however eat refined sugar or I flush ridiculously and jitter from the sugar rush. So I have taken on board both Dangermouse's and CLKD's advice and come up with a balanced plan (I think)!
I wouldn't even have a piece of cake even occasionally as a treat though. Boy, have I been a miserable sod! I've decided my somewhat 'sackcloth and ashes' approach to life is helping loads in making me more depressed. I need to have a wee treat now and again, and not live life grasping my little packs of finely milled oatcakes like my life depends on the blinkin' things. I must have shares in Nairn's by now...... :o
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As a recovering anorexic ………. though never low enough to stop my periods, bugga …….. from the age of 11 I ate enough to keep me upright. The lowest I went to was 5st 5lb, C.mas 1972. No one every asked why I didn't eat much :-\.
So anything that I fancy goes into my gob, I also have fads and fancies ::). Sometimes it will be cheese salad for lunch followed by a small egg custard or fruit; or it will be pork pies with mango chutney; Himself always cooks a hot meal at night which we decide upon mid-afternoon. Usually a chicken-based meal with fresh veg. or pasta, steak with fresh veg., we eat lots of curry with rice. I try not to eat too many chocolate eclairs ;) or other prepared food-stuffs but when I need to eat I need to eat now - or I get beyond and run into problems.
My go-to has always been dried fruits and nuts; Dextrose ; energy bars ; I have never bothered about added sugars or what is in my food choices because I have always had access to fresh fruits and veg. as our family grew a lot of these at home. I suppose the first ready meal was fish fingers ;D.
When we go walking I can get to the point of shaky legs, weak thighs, sudden nausea - a sign for me that I have used up any stored energy. Which is why we carry slabs of fruit cake, plenty of liquids, cold home-made pasta/chicken mix …… When I have done a lot of gardening I suffer the same symptoms ::) but I can always 'pull one more weed' :D.
The body detoxes itself. That's what the kidneys are for ::) ……. we are designed to graze when possible, hunter-gathering would have been difficult because food stuffs weren't as easy to catch ……. so humans would rise with the sun, go foraging, eat as much as was available, go to bed at dusk. Then someone invented chips and chocolate ;D
My Victorian Gran used to tell me that 'a little of what we fancy does us good'.
Tempest - why did you wait 18 months :o :-\
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Because I'm a numpty and must love making myself miserable, I should think!! This has been a bit of a 'theme' with me since this whole menopause thing started (since peri., before the surgery even).
I'm coming to realise that I've denied myself a lot of pleasurable things since all this started. It has to stop!!
Your Victorian Granny has wise words there, CLKD! ;) :)
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Himself often tells me that if I hadn't anything to worry about, I would find something >:( ::).
However, when we want to feel well we will think about our diet and life-style and try things to see if we improve.
What you going to do now?
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I tend to get low blood sugar, but if I reach the point of hunger that I'm shaky and nauseated, sugar is the worst for me. The surge from a glass of juice or soda would make me feel terrible. I have to get some proteins in maybe combined or followed by a carb or sugar, but the protein is key for me or I'll feel off all day. Cheese and apples or toast, yogurt, nuts, beef jerky, etc are my go to quick boosts if I let myself go too long without a proper meal.
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:thankyou:
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As an anxiety sufferer :-\ and a diabetic I think too much sugar for anybody is very dangerous, the initial high is very short lived and the crash can leave you feeling a lot worse
Yammy