Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Alternative Therapies => Topic started by: threetims on August 02, 2016, 05:43:19 PM
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Hi all I hope you can help. It seems that being 44 and a year and a half into the menopause the medical establishments main worry is my bone density and how affected I will be at a later date. I have tried two different tablet forms of HRT, coupled with the mini pill, that had such a devastating effect on my personality I binned them both 3 weeks ago (and have felt better ever since!) under the premise of getting a mirena coil fitted today, and being prescribed HRT in gel form as a result of having said coil fitted. Long story short, went to the doctors after a month wait for said appointment and she told me it was yet another consultation (had the same consultation a month ago at the menopause clinic in Leeds, doctor didn't send her a letter like she said she would) and that I would have to wait another month for a reschedule. Fact is I don't even want the mirena fitted, am only doing it to try this different form of HRT (gel) and not have to take two lots of tablets that, quite frankly, drive me nuts. My question is, are there any solid alternative remedies out there I can possibly take to help with the bone density? I really don't want to have to carry on with the trial and error of HRT, and all search engines are overwhelming with what could be right or wrong and might just be a waste of money. I eat well, and do yoga and lots of walking. Please help, at the end of my tether and feeling very low about this today.
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:welcomemm:
Lots of brisk walking in the sunshine! Cheaper than the gym though that is another idea for the colder months. Apparently 10 mins daily helps keep bone density OK. A good diet, including dairy and plenty of hydration as well as taking 'me' time for relaxation. Maybe walk with friends? or borrow a dog ?
You could have a look at the osteoporosis support web-site too for ideas.
The idea of HRT is to keep bones and heart healthy, replacing oestrogen in particular that the body should be making until our mid-50s, though peri can arrive at almost any age ::).
We have several sporty threads on here ::) - also skipping and using a hoola hoop …….. :D
Browse round, make notes!
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At your age HRT is your best option, at least until you are 50, to really help your bones and heart for the long term. Also if you are low on oestrogen so young you are more likely to get vaginal atrophy and bladder problems - I'm 60 and can tell you that you really don't want these problems too early. The Mirena may well be a good option for you as less progesterone is absorbed around the body so generally fewer side effects. Oestrogen is the ‘feel good hormone' and Oestrogel is brilliant as you can adjust the amount you use to what you need.
After having the Mirena fitted there may be some initial side effects for a few weeks but once your body adjusts and welcomes the hormones you should feel much better.
You could risk not having any HRT and simply ensure you have a good diet with plenty of Calcium, Magnesium and Vitamin D (supplements as well) and ensure you do a lot of appropriate weight baring exercise e.g. jogging, walking etc - I'm afraid Yoga isn't the right exercise for bones although great for everything else. Even with HRT it is good to take Vitamin D to ensure you are absorbing the calcium from your diet properly. You don't say whether you have had a DEXA scan or not - you should get a scan done to see how your bone density is right now.
Are you getting any other meno symptoms yet e.g. flushes, night sweats, aches and pains, poor sleep, low mood etc.
You don't say which HRTs you have tried and or how long you took them - most HRT treatments take 3-6 months to settle so one does need to persevere.
HAve a look under TREATMENTs at the top of this page to see your options. Keep us posted. DG x
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Thanks all. I am a dog walker by trade so get plenty of walking done every day, yoga, swimming and badminton. Not much for gym/weights type stuff. I found the two different HRT's I tried (femoston and elleste duet 1 and 2mg) combined with the cerelle mini pill made me feel worse than any of the actual menopausal symptoms did, anxiety through the roof, constant weeping over everything and nothing, irritable, mood swings from one minute to the next, feeling like I could actually harm myself if I didn't punch something - I literally am exhausted by it. And it's taking a toll on my relationship which adds insult to injury. I don't suffer from hot flushes or insomnia thankfully. It's the loneliness of it I find hard to deal with, even though I know millions of women are going through it every day I still feel like I'm on my own, and the docs aren't helping by messing me around. From what you've said I will have to go down the mirena coil/hrt gel route as I don't appear to have many other options. I am interested in other cultures who seem to not suffer from menopausal symptoms, the japanese for example apparently don't have a word for it! Something to do with vast amounts of soya/tofu and the like. I guess this, like supplements, would help but not eradicate, because of my age. Thanks again guys and I will do some further reading around here.
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threetims - If you had HRT together with Cerelle then it's no wonder you had bad PMT etc. this would have given you way too much progesterone. There is some evidence that a diet high in phyto-estrogens can relieve menopause symptoms however I have tried this and haven't found it helps at all - there could be some protection for the heart but I'm not sure it helps the bones.
If you have the Mirena this gives you convenient contraception through the peri stage, protects your womb lining from building up, brings fewer if any progesterone side effects and allows you to use the oestrogen your body so badly needs. The low mood, anxiety and irritability you are suffering from may well be to do with the lack of oestrogen (these are typical meno symptoms) so 2 pumps per day of Oestrogel could well give you the physical and mental boost you need.
You seem to be getting good advice from the doctors, many women have to fight to get HRT treatment, so whilst you may feel frustrated with things right now I would go with the advice you have been given and see if it all helps - I suspect in the six months you will feel so much better in yourself once the right hormone balance is in place. DG x
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Why not give it a go - after all, nothing lasts for ever [hopefully] and if you find it helps then continue; if not, after 9-12 months give it up?
We have a 'dog breed' thread here somewhere ;-).
How is your diet over-all? Eating regularly can stop sudden dips in energy which can = irritability. That is, eating every 3 hours 24/7, 7/52 …………. especially as you walk regularly, could it be that you may not be eating enough to stop those sudden dips?
I think that the Japanese eat differently from day 1 so beginning their diets later on probably won't work! I expect that many cultures simply don't talk about menopause ………. or don't live long enough to experience symptoms?
As an aside - does VitD need any other mineral for up-take, i.e. magnesium ……..
Let us know how you get on!
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Oh heck! The future of my bone health is another of my concern. :(
What I was told by the gp is to have healthy level of vitamin D which seems to be the key so I'd monitor my level every year.
We have been rather lucky with Sun this year but 50% of population is vitamin D defficient. As long as I monitor my vitamin D level, I can take 4,000 IU everyday. And exercise I suppose. ::)
You can buy this online or from your local health food shop.
https://naturesanswer.com/product/vitamin-d-3-drops-4000-iu/
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If you are under 50 and oestrogen deficient then no amount of Vit D will protect your bones in the same way as hrt does.
Everyone should be taking vitamin D, particularly in winter. DG x
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Brisk walking once the sun goes down ........ lots of dairy foods.
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Ask for a bone density scan? I believe that the pelvis is the best area to chart bone loss.
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Hi threetims
:welcomemm: from me too!
I agree with Dancinggirl - at your age the best protection for your bones is from taking HRT, and I also agree with her re taking the HRt and the mini pill - most of us would feel dreaful on this combo! Mirena and patches or gel is definitely a good way to go!
As has been said - in addition to help maintain bone density you need sufficient calcium and vitamin D as well as weight-bearing exercise. Depending on your natural skin colour and where you live - then you may well not need vitamin D in summer - (eg most white british living in Britain) - as long as you get outside in the sun for average X mins per week ( or month?). Vit D is stored in the liver but those who didn't get out enough in summer to store for winter may need to take a supplement eg cod liver oil.
The first 5 years after menopause are the most rapid for bone loss so no time like the present to try to avert this!
Hurdity x
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If you are under 50 and oestrogen deficient then no amount of Vit D will protect your bones in the same way as hrt does.
Everyone should be taking vitamin D, particularly in winter. DG x
Oh thanks. God knows what my density is like then. I've been consistantly deficient even after taking a mega dose.
Suffering from pain, fatigue, slow healing wounds etc.
It's hard to find people who could help me so I can only rely on myself. :(
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Who has slow healing wounds Stellajane .......... I've lost the thread a bit. When I had radiation therapy following surgery it took a lot longer for wounds to heal, probably due to the fact that my body was busy elsewhere ::). Once I had stopped treatment my body reverted to 1-2 days rather than 2/3 weeks.
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:thankyou: I really need to Keep Up ::)
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I take Osteocare tablets sofasurfer. They contain calcium and magnesium as well as vitamin D.
Why do you have slow healing wounds? Has that been investigated?
No but my gp is uninterested.
When my vitamin D level was defficient and I was so tired, she told me my level was ok and go do exercise.
I know this kind of thing is happening to many people also. So there are there to dish out expensive medication other than that they are not interested. It's ok, I am aging and don't really want to live much longer like this.
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Go to your local Pharmacist and ask for over-the-counter VitD tablets. One doesn't need permission from a GP if we know something isn't quite right ;-).
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Go to your local Pharmacist and ask for over-the-counter VitD tablets. One doesn't need permission from a GP if we know something isn't quite right ;-).
I have a liquid form of Vitamin D now and plenty of sun exposure this year.
That's the easiest part to correct. Gyne part which I lack knowledge but I might have to start reading up and become an expert!! No point in complaining.
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I thought I was OK. But 12 months ago I could hardly put one foot in front of the other :-\ would do 20 mins. weeding then had to sit still for 2 hours. Mum complained similarly. We both spends hours int he garden but both were suffering low VitD levels, found on blood test.
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Damn, I am gutted.
Went for a dexa scan and it appears that I have osteoporosis. :'(
Although I've been having regular period till last year, I must have been peri for some years which my gp didn't put two and two together. He doesn't recognoise dizzyness as one of the meno symptoms so I'm not suprised though. ::)
Does anybody take medication for Osteoporosis? How long will it take for the density to go up? Or will it ever??
In the meanwhile, I've got a contraceptive pill prescribed. My GP said mini pill would be safer but I asked for combined pills as I had both estrogen and progesteron and something tells me that I should have both, not just one.
I feel sick and old all of a sudden now. Mind you, some women had to go through it already in their 20s, 30s etc.. :'(
Men have no idea what we go through out the life span.
Luckily, I am seeing an osteopath soon so I can show him the report.
May be he'll put a good words into my gp who is not all that helpful.
Some advice.
Prevent or reverse osteoporosis
https://www.wallerwellness.com/health-aging/10-ways-to-prevent-or-reverse-osteoporosis
Someone reversed her Osteoporosis.
https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/how-i-beat-osteoporosis-judis-story/
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You need proper HRT with bio identical oestrogen in it. The mini pill will not help your bones.
At least you have been given a proper diagnosis now and before things get too bad, so you can now take positive action. You are right about the oestrogen.
There are BCPs with bio identical oestrogen - one is called Qlaira - so perhaps ask to try this.
Your GP should be referring you to a gynae or meno clinic if he/she doesn't understand that you need HRT. If you need contraception then do consider the Mirena so you can use enough oestrogen alongside to help you bones.
Hopefully the osteopath will tell you what exercises you need to help your bone density as well. Lots of brisk walking is very good. Good luck
DG x
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You need proper HRT with bio identical oestrogen in it. The mini pill will not help your bones.
At least you have been given a proper diagnosis now and before things get too bad, so you can now take positive action. You are right about the oestrogen.
There are BCPs with bio identical oestrogen - one is called Qlaira - so perhaps ask to try this.
Your GP should be referring you to a gynae or meno clinic if he/she doesn't understand that you need HRT. If you need contraception then do consider the Mirena so you can use enough oestrogen alongside to help you bones.
Hopefully the osteopath will tell you what exercises you need to help your bone density as well. Lots of brisk walking is very good. Good luck
DG x
Thank you Dancinggirl for your advice.
I've read about Mirena but I didn't get on with UTI before. I didn't like the feel of something inside of me the whole time.
I'll ask if he would prescribe me Qlaira.
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Interesting comment regarding Dexa scan.
I have had several full body dexa scans as part of a university study (unrelated to osteo) as well as specific for osteo wrist/arm, hip and spine, however the results of three consecutive full body scans run within minutes of each other varied by 1.8%?! As they expect any improvement to take years and be measured in very small % numbers this does not inspire much confidence.
https://patient.info/forums/discuss/osteoporosis-results-range-for-different-parts-of-the-body-664397