Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => New Members => Topic started by: pinkdove on June 21, 2016, 05:15:04 PM
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Hi, Where to start, well i may be too old, i don't know, I am through the menopause, but suffer from anxiety/depression, and have done since 2010, I take effexor antidepressants, which have helped a bit, but it is the terrible sweats i have, particularly in the mornings, my hair is soaking wet, and i feel so uncomfortable.
I am having some bloods done tomorrow to check thyroid, sugar, and anemia, but i wonder if all this could be hormonal, i did discuss this with my GP last year, and he said i could try a low dose hrt treatment, I am 62 years old, and a bit wary of starting it.
Has anyone else taken or tried hrt over 60, or should all my symptoms have passed by now, and this could all be down to anxiety
Sorry for all the questions, just feel so fed up just now, and being on antidepressants for 6 years seems a long time.
Thanks in advance x
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Hi Stella Jane, if the symptoms are concerning you then they need addressed, theres no such thing as being too old, as obviously you are still having sweats so need something plus the anxiety needs addressed too. I am 63 and just recently got prescribed Vagifem for VA. Wish I had know about it sooner. This is what frustrates me, I went frequently to GP about cystitis and UTI's yet they just kept prescribing antibiotics. It was only when I got to see my own GP who is excellent but constantly booked up weeks ahead the VA and hormones were ever mentioned. She also directed me to this site. Im a health professional myself but admit to being very ignorant of menopausal matters and HRT, this site is amazing both in knowledge and support from the other members. Do have a read round, I spent hours on here at the start , I couldn't get enough of the information !!
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Hello there
Welcome!
I'm a newbie myself but have learnt so much in the past three months.
It's been a huge learning curve for me and I've read so many clinical academic research articles on the subject.
I'm far from an expert on the subject, unlike more knowledgeable posters on MM, like Mary G.
You can start taking HRT over 60, but it needs to be the right HRT at the right dose. So many women seem to get prescribed ineffective dated HRT. so do read around MM for more information as to the best clinically advised treatment regimes.
Get your hormonal levels checked first too - oestrogen. testosterone, and progesterone plus FSH and LH levels too. Even if they are at "normal" levels it doesn't mean your hormones are functioning well.
You could first have a look at the benefits of transdermal oestrogen (i.e. gels, which seem to be safer and far more effective than the cheaper NHS prescribed HRT tablets).
Six years on AD's seems too a long time without any positive benefits IMO - doesn't seem effective if your problems are hormonal related! My GP tried to say the same thing re AD's but I went onto Studd's regime 9 weeks ago and have felt so much better than I have in years
Do your reading and research., ask questions on here etc., so you can go back to to your GP more informed and more confident in asking for what you need. xx
xx
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Hi again, and thanks for your advice, sorry it's taken so long to answer, just come back from my gp, as i had bloods done last week, and my pv level was high, anyway saw a lady doctor, and she was fantastic, really listened to me, and has offered me a lwo dose hrt, as she thinks it will help with all my symptoms.
So after explaining the risks, and the benefits, she has made me an appointment in a fortnight, and asked me to visit this site, to ask, or look for the benefits it has for other ladies, and to collect as much info as i can, she said they usually start on tablets, then if they are not tolerated, patches, and did say it would be both oestrgen and another, sorry i cant remember which one,
So any advice would be really appreciated, i am seriously thinking of starting, as my quality of life is not great at the moment, also i have a problem with my weight, i have pt on 2 stone since taking ad's so i thought if i felt better on hrt, i could start to reduce the ad's
Anyway for the first time i feel somebody has listened to me instead of just brushing my symptoms off as depression and anxiety. xxx
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That's great pink dove, isn't it amazing the difference when someone actually takes time to listen seriously to our concerns. I can't offer any advice on HRT as I'm only recently started on Vagifem, which is just a small dose of Oestrogen applied topically rather than full HRT , but I'm sure some of the other ladies will be able to advise. You have done the best thing by going to GP and hopefully in a few weeks you will see and experience the benefits.
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pinkdove, that is very good news. I have used many different types of HRT over a number of years and this is my advice. I don't think oral HRT is as good as the transdermal variety because it can cause digestive problems and much of it can get lost in your digestive system meaning you don't get a steady dose.
I wouldn't recommend patches either. There are other members who like them but I found they didn't stick well, left a horrid black mark and itchy rash and I could never get enough oestrogen out of them - this was backed up with blood tests. This is only my person view but I really hated going around with a patch stuck to my backside and because I go to the beach and swim at lot in the summer, it was impractical.
I now use Oestrogel (oestrogen gel that you rub on your skin everyday) and Utrogestan (progesterone capsule used vaginally for a few days each month) and it is the best HRT regime I have had by a very, very long way. The beauty of the Oestrogel is that it is flexible meaning you can adjust the dose to suit your needs and I have found it works much better than any other form of oestrogen. I reached breakthrough once I was on this regime whereas previously I had felt half baked and not quite there.
I would also suggest you use HRT cyclically (monthly bleed) rather than on a continuous combined basis (bleed free option). This does mean having periods again but I think it is worth it in order to feel good for most of the time. If you use the bleed free option, it means taking progesterone everyday and that can bring down your mood and take away the feelgood factor and benefits that the oestrogen provides.
I have been around the block on this one but now I am 55, about 9 years post menopause and I can honestly say that I feel roughly the same as I did when I was 30 so I must be doing something right!
I hope that helps.
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Did your GP prescribe your current HRT regiem Mary G? I've read so much positives about it.
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aarell, no, my GP knows virtually nothing about the menopause and even less about HRT and very definitely didn't prescribe it for me! She was completely useless so I did my own thing for a while and then sought the advice of Professor John Studd which was one of those life changing moments, they don't happen very often and I'm not easily impressed but this changed my life and was the best 300 quid I ever spent.
He put me on 3 pumps of Oestrogel (now reduced to 2 pumps), a tiny bead of testosterone everyday and 100mg Utrogestan (used vaginally) for 7 days each month but I have now stretched my cycle to 5 weeks which I can safely do because I have regular scans.
As you probably know, he is the leading world expert on all things hormone/menopause related and this is his tried and tested regime following years of his own research.
You can try to get his regime from your NHS GP but they probably won't prescribe it in the same way and will probably try and tell you to take more Utrogestan for much longer - something I would never do. Most women have a consultation with Professor Studd and he will then write to your GP with his recommended prescription. Alternatively, why not ask your doctor to simply read his website!
Hope that helps.
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Yes thank you... think you have just given me the light bulb moment!
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Thanks ladies, so much to think about, but with being a complete novice i dont know where to start, Mary i really cant afford to go private, but i will mention your suggestion to my gp.
This is such a new avenue for me, and i feel optimistic, as i have always been treated for depression and anxiety, so the thought of feeling somewhere near normal and getting off ad's is something i had given up on'
I dont really want to bleed again, but i agree if i feel good most of the time, then it's a small price to pay.....so much to think about and take in, thanks again xx
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Thanks ladies, so much to think about, but with being a complete novice i dont know where to start, Mary i really cant afford to go private, but i will mention your suggestion to my gp.
Pink dove might be worth as Mary suggests, printing out the information from Prof Studd's web site and showing it to your GP when you go next week, if nothing else, it will show her you are up to date and have done your own research so she will be less inclined to fob you off with the one size fits all options that seems to be common practice.
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Mary G
May I ask why you reduced from 3 pumps of gel to 2 pumps ? I am using 3 pumps and my anxiety is really bad so wondering if it's too high? I am 57
Wx
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warwick01, I reduced for two reasons, firstly, I seem to soak up Oestrogel like a sponge (I have very high blood levels of oestrogen) and secondly, I was fed up with having heavy periods. I have not noticed any difference since reducing to two pumps except lighter periods. I do split the dose and use one pump every 12 hours to keep the levels stable so perhaps that helps?
One more thing... I take DHEA tablets everyday and my gynaecologist thinks I am producing my own oestrogen again so that could explain the high blood levels. I used to take 25mg of DHEA everyday but she suggested I reduce to 10mg which I have but again, I haven't noticed any difference.
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:welcomemm:
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Hi again, what a load of info and thanks for that, I have spoke to a few friends and my sister in law, and all seem to agree with Mary, they are on oestrogen and progestorone, i have been told that the progestorone is best used by inserting into the vagina, and the oestrogen used a a gel.
I have made my mind up and i want to start hrt, now i dont have an appt with my gp till mid July, so have made a tel appt, for next week, to ask her if i can start with this, now have any of you ladies been started on this form of hrt ? and i would like use the continuous method,
I am feeling dreadful, the sweats are getting worse, have a kirby in my hair as i type, and a tissue in my hand, oh the joys of the menopause, any info much appreciated xx
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Hi pinkdove
A belated :welcomemm: from me too - I've been away.
I would give a cautious agreement with some of what the others have said - and in particular starting HRT over 60. It is imperative that you use transdermal HRT to reduce possible stroke risk and especially if you are a long time since menopause. When was your last period and was it a natural one ( ie no mini pill or Mirena coil)?
At your age you may well find that a very low dose is all you need to feel a lot better so this would be the best place to start - not a good idea to wade in with a high dose.
Personally I would not start with gel, but I would suggest a low dose patch such as Estradot 25 mcg - and you might even want to cut this to start with if your body has been without oestrogen for say 10 years - although you might be OK starting with this. You only have to change it twice a week so it's much easier in terms of remembering. I have always been fine on 50 mcg patch since age 54 approx.
Re the progesterone - you won't want to have a bleed at your age if you've been without periods for so long, but do be prepared for the progesterone (Utrogestan) to have some side effects too. You won't be able to distinguish between the effects of the oestrogen and progesterone if you take them continuously too. I'm not sure about long term vaginal use of progesterone either - most women who take it this way have a cycle including me at 63 (been on HRT for 9 years). It is not licensed for use vaginally so unless your GP agreed to reduce the dose the standard dose for continuous use orally is 100 mg per day. However if you are on a very low dose of oestrogen you would be able to manage a longer cycle so for example have a withdrawal bleed every 6 weeks or so or even two months.
Can you have the telephone consultation with your GP and at the same time ask to be referred to a menopause clinic if you want to do anything out of the ordinary?
Make sure you are absolutely sure of the type of HRT you want to try and why and stick to your guns!
When you feel better you should be able to start to lose the weight through a combination of diet and exercise.
Good luck :)
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity, I just feel so bad at the moment, and i am looking for a quick fix in hrt, which I know will not happen, I will be advised by my gp, as i know we are all different, on the plus side, everyone tells me i will feel a lot better, but at 62, i dont really relish having a bleed again, but reading through this great forum, you are right, the patches seem to be the way to go.
I had my gallbladder out a couple of years ago, and can have a dicky tummy at times, so would rather not have tablets, but again i will listen to my gp.
Cant believe i have been treated for anxiey and depression fr 6 years, and all this could and probably is down to the menopause, so here's hoping i can feel better, and finally reduce my ad's and get my life back xx
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However: you may have depression and anxiety un-related to hormones. What symptoms took you to the GP who then prescribed them? For me, if my brain feels low for more than 3 mornings when I wake I up the dosage for 5-7 days to support the brain. I also take a betablocka to ease anxiety surges as well as having an emergency tablet for when anxiety grounds me. My hormonal depression was totally different to what I suffered in later years [from the late 1980s].
Can you remember back how you felt each month? I would cry a lot the night B4 a bleed began, even if a period wasn't due - sure enough, it would present itself the next morning ::). I would get irritated 48 hours prior to a bleed, my Husband could see the warning signs and learnt to duck.
Perhaps keep a mood/food diary, did I suggest this already? [meno brain here ::)]. Lack of recall is a common meno symptom!
Have a list of symptoms and questions by the 'phone to ask when the GP rings and jot down suggestions from her. Let us know!
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Hi CLKD, Thanks for taking the time to answer, I ma prone to suffering anxiety and depression, and have been on effexor at a low dose for 6 years, i have also used beta blockers, but only for a short time.
However this feels different, I am completely exhausted all the time, really bad sweats, bloated, and anxious, so my GP ran a load of blood tests, they came back normal, except pv level which was high, went to see a different GP, a female, and she said she thought my symptoms were hormone related, and suggested i try a low dose HRT/
Before the menopause i suffered badly with PMT, but had very regular periods/
I really hate going on about this, as i am a get on with it person, but i am really feeling so bad at the moment, just hoping that HRT will help me, I will write down some questions for the GP before she rings, and thanks again xx
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Give yourself some slack! This is 'the Change of Life' with associated niggles, symptoms, upsets. HORMONES >:( ::).
Put that list by the phone ;). Rest when you can, exercise gently and eat regularly. Keep posting! PMT can be eased by eating every 3 hours ;-).
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Hi again, my GP is ringing me this afternoon, prior to my appointment next week, to discuss HRT, well i am all read out scare stories, good stories, should or should'nt take at my ag.......the list goes on.
I have now researched eleste duet, and femoston,and thinking of asking her about them, i am overweight at the moment and the thought of putting on more weight fills me with fear, but as i have said i am so tired at the moment, i cant be bothered to do much, and i crave junk food at night, so am hoping that i might have more energy on HRT, and maybe be able to stick to a healthier life style.....what a mess i feel like just now, to try HRT or not , Please help xx
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It really is your personal choice . Just bare in mind as I have said before on here thousands and thousands of women are happily getting on with their lives on hrt ,these women don't need to go onto forums like this they have found what suits them . Femoston is a good one to try most do well on it. If you do decide to go a head please keep an open mind,be positive and dont go looking for problems ;)
Be prepared to stick at it for at least two cycles and dont expect miracles overnight. Try also to look at getting more active as and when you can I'm sure you will be surprised at the results. Keep us updated on what you decide.
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Hi again pinkdove
I'm probably too late for your phone call - but I wouldn't start on tablets as I mentioned. Transdermal HRT is really the way to go at your age - especially if you are 10 years or more since last period. You didn't say when this was?
Another member Ju Ju also started HRT at age 60 and I am sure would be happy to share her experiences with you.
As you say - your weight increase could be partly due to the Effexor, and also how appalling that you may never have really needed this but instead should have been offered HRT if your depression was cyclical/hormonal - only apparent at menopause or pre-menstrually. This is classic hormonal depression/anxiety.
As I said before it would be best to start on something like a low dose patch like Estradot 25 mcg - as the absorption is very consistent and not dependent on the area you apply to your body as with gel. You would need a separate progesterone but of course - as I mentioned in my post below.
The only other alternative is for example a conti patch - like Evorel conti or Femseven conti cut in half - but this means having the progestogen all the time and some women do have problems with some of the synthetic ones. Could be worth a try though?
Do let us know how you get on.
Hurdity x
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Me Again, Thanks for all your replies i really appreciate all the advice, bit of background I am 62 years old, had my last period about 10 years ago, i had bad PMT. a week before a bleed, and was very regular,
Update, my GP rang and she says she will be happy to prescribe a low dose HRT, needs to check my blood pressure, so will do that next Thursday when i go in for appt. she says i can use patches, would probably need to use two differnt patches, which i dont understand, she says she's thinking of a sequential dose, so i would have bleeding again,
I asked about the continued HRT, and she say's if i do want that she would consider it, but would have to do some more research before i go in again next week.
Anyone else have to use two patches ?? or any advice on what she said would be appreciated.
Thanks again ladies, you are all brilliant xxx
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Thanks for letting us know
How bizarre! Why would she need to check. Continuous combined HRT ie the no-bleed type is the norm for post-menopausal women! To opt for a cycle is not the norm but as we suggested might be best in the first instance.
What she will be referring to are the combi patches - Evorel sequi and Femseven sequi.
I will explain about the Evorel sequi: this consists of two types of patches - Evorel 50 mcg (oestrogen only patches which you take for two weeks) followed by the combi patches - ie which have oestrogen and progestogen combined - these are called Evorel conti patches. The progestogen in them is called norethisterone. Both types ( Evorel and Femseven) are listed here: http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/perimeno.php (scroll down to transdermal).
I think several of us have mentioned there can be side effects with norethisterone but why not try? It would be good to try the cyclical type of HRT to give you a bleed at first, because at least you will know whether you feel better on the oestrogen. You might find 50 mcg a shock to your system to start with after so long without oestrogen so if you do start the patches you might want to start with half a patch and build up gradually.
Hurdity x
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It's good that the GP is prepared to put in some leg work - not all know much about menopause and easing of symptoms do they ……. taking a list of symptoms and what you would like to try may well help too.
Let us know how you get on!
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Hurdity, thanks for that, with all the research and the help on this forum, i thought that the continuous combined HRT is the best for post menopause,so i am going to print of the page on MM on HRT for post menopause and take it with me.
She is a really nice GP. and i do think she is trying to do the best for me, she did say she would further research, and i am grateful for that.
CLKD I will take a list of symptoms along with the print out on post meno HRT, I will let you know what happens next week, OMG another week of this, but hey ho i've come this far.......
Thanks again xx
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Yep. Now that you are building a working relationship with your GP you should eventually find something which suits.
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Today i have reduced my antidepressant by half, of course i feel ok as it's early days, but i'm determined to get this weight off.
When i see my GP wednesday night, i am hoping to start a low dose HRT, i just hope the HRT wont make me gain any more weight.
Still feeling tired, loads of sweating, but i really must take control and hopefully get my life back xx
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Little steps! Smaller portions? More fresh/frozen veg., grilled chicken or stir fried ……… fish once a week? - Himself makes lots of rissotto-type meals which means lots of filling veg.. Grazing helps, also eating B4 one is hungry so that 1 doesn't 'stuff' the wrong types of foods ;-). Also, don't give up on treats ………
Exercise [says She, sitting on the sofa watching sport] ::).
Does your Surgery have a dietician available? I go to our Surgery twice a year for them to weigh and note where I'm at.
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Thanks CLKD, another question for the GP. a dietician would be great, maybe motivate me.
and yes little steps, thats why i thought i might start by reducing AD, as i know its the cause of my weight gain, and slowing my metabolism, exercise, id do try to walk my wee dog twice a day for about 15 mins, but cant muster up the energy for much more.xx
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:-\ ……. I've had many different ADs since the 1980s and never put on weight …….. I was 7st for many years, went up to nearly 9st when I stopped exercising and it took 14 months of walking daily [again] to get to 8st.. That was when my oestrogen levels began to drop off, co-inciding with lack of exercise [lazyness ……. ]
If there isn't a dietician available then drop into your Leisure Centre to see if there is an instructor who would give dietary advice.
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Hi Pinkdove
Just read your post - what dose of Effexor are you on? My only thoughts would be to either start a low dose of HRT or reduce your AD's, I wouldn't do both at the same time. As Hurdity mentions, HRT may be a shock to you system but you don't want to go through Effexor withdrawal at the same time.
I took Effexor for 18 months about 14 years ago. For some reason I only seem to like SNRI's which are hard to come off and the withdrawal from Effexor might take a while. Just thought you may be better trying a low dose HRT, then withdrawing.
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Thanks Mis71 mum, I was on 150mg, then reduced VERY slowly down to 75mg, I was down to 37.5mg, but i lost my brother in May which was very stressful, so went back up to 75mg, I know you must do it very slow, and this is only day 3 of the lower dose, but if i feel withdrawal i will increase again, how did you get off it, and do you take HRT ?? sorry for all the questions, but any help would be appreciated xx
CLKD, you are so lucky that you managed to dodge the weight gain, I went to the leisure centre last year, and did a swim 3 times a week, but wait for it......fell of the treadmill, what an embarrassment, not to mention the fact that i could'nt walk for days lol, that;s me tho' throw myself into it wanting results straight away.
This is such a great site for help, and info, thanks again ladies xxx