Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Ljp on June 13, 2016, 04:30:21 PM
-
Hi, I am 51 and 2 years post meno. I currently have Mirena coil, and use estring for bladder symptoms, and oestrogel 1 and a half pumps daily, this keeps most of my symptoms under control.
What exactly is 'Going through the menopause'? As I see it, we start having various debilitating symptoms at some point in the years leading up to our final period, and according to what we are told, are considered to have 'gone through the menopause' once we have had no periods for a year.
However, do the debilitating symptoms disappear along with our periods? 'Hell no!'
I have a friend who had a hysterectomy, last year, one ovary was left, she had very few symptoms of meno prior to this, but now she is having hot flushes, she says she can weather them , as this seems to be her only troublesome symptom, and her GP has said they will probably stop fairly soon! … how does she know that?
I have another friend, who has had the mirena coil for years, her current one has another year left, she has hot flushes, brain fog, night sweats, her GP has said this mirena will see her through!… see her through WHAT
From my understanding, it's not something we 'Go through' it's a permanent change isn't it? Ok so the hot flushes might disappear if we're lucky, but what about bladder issues, VA, anxiety, etc etc
We aren't going to magically start producing our own hormones again, so how do we get over it?
Does is get better once our bodies eventually adjust to life without our female hormones? Or do we face the next 30 ish years with troublesome issues?
Just can't understand WHY we are told we "go through the menopause'and phrases such as,' this will see you through' are used, as if all will be fine on the other side!… how many of us are still waiting for all to be fine?
Ok I'm mostly fine thanks to HRT, but I am still having anxiety at times concerning my feelings of having 'given in' to HRT, feeling like I've failed for not having 'gone through' the menopause naturally, and worrying about the health scares surrounding HRT.
I personally can't see how, without using HRT, my bladder issues would ever become normal again, even though my GP said as she sees it, the HRT will help relax the bladder to enable it to not have to empty so frequently, and over time it could be that it would remain so should I stop HRT.
Sorry for long post, it just feels like we are led to believe that normal service will be resumed once we have 'gone through menopause' but I can't see how!
-
What an interesting post. You are quite right, you don't "go through" the menopause it is ongoing and actually means you live for years with oestrogen deprivation unless you take HRT for life - something I decided I was going to do a long time ago. My view is that the menopause consists of two phases, the immediate symptoms leading up to the ceasation of periods and then years of other health horrors which are caused by oestrogen deprivation.
My advice is don't go there, you don't have to, that is why HRT was invented. I think the time is very near when all women will be urged to take HRT unless they have a very serious underlying health issue. Unfortunately, because of two deeply flawed and now discredited health studies, HRT has been held back and we now have a lost generation of women who should have been taking it but were scared off. Those studies certainly have a lot to answer for.
-
Thanks Mary, yes those studies do indeed have a lot to answer for, both in our own, and our GPs misunderstandings.
There is still so much scaremongering and doubt around HRT.
I doubt I am alone with feeling like I'm doing something 'wrong' by giving in to HRT, and still doubt it's safety. Not helped when my GP said, "gynaecologists are very pro HRT, but I question if a breast oncologist were asked, whether they would have the same opinion regarding it'… very reassuring huh?
Oh and another gem from her ' I don't question menopausal symptoms can be debilitating, but if course you'd kick yourself for taking HRT if you were to develop breast cancer' 😟
-
I also think that we can waste an awful lot of time and energy waiting to go back to how/who we were. It takes quite a while to accept that even with HRT we have changed.
I have lost two friends to breast cancer and neither were on HRT.
Taz x
-
That's so true taz2 I'm def trying to get my pre age 44 when this started life back even though I know nothing will ever be the same again I just cant stop chasing the past hope acceptance arrives soon
-
I've finally accepted it. Started symptoms at 52 and I'm 62 now so I took a while!!
Taz x ;D
-
'Going through the menopause' probably refers to the fact that many women find the worst of the health issues go after a few years - they may be older, fatter, wrinklier & creakier, but they no longer battle with debilitating side effects of the menopause. I have a number of friends who are continuing to lead full & active lives now that the hot flushes etc have vanished.
Ok, so it may not happen for all of us, but I, for one, am hanging onto that hope. At 41, I'm not prepared to accept that this is as good as it gets for the rest of my life. I know I am not going to ever go back to how I was at 35, but I'm hoping that I will one day be a lot better than I am now. If I thought that I would be living the next 40+ years like I am now, I don't think I could cope. Maybe at some point, I will have to accept that I'm not going to get any better than I am now, but meanwhile, I'm going to keep taking things a day at a time and keep hoping for an improvement.
-
Sort of like going through puberty? We don't go back to our child bodies after the teen years, but it's a rapid change during puberty. We're always aging. I think we deal with rapid change "going through" menopause, but then continue with general aging. I know several women in their 40s and early 50s who had hysterectomy, and skipped or dropped the hormones after the big WHO scare, went through a period of hard menopause, and are fine now. I don't know what health effects they may deal with in terms of bone loss, vaginal health, etc, but they don't continue to suffer the same upheaval many of us on the forum in the throes of it are suffering. I think that's the part you "go through".
As for me, hail the hrt! I think it saved my life! ;D
-
Well I would like to say that I feel 100% my old self, even better maybe since I started hrt. I don't see why I should accept 'different' or 'change' <shudder>
No thanks it's onwards and upwards for me
:-*
-
Good to hear it Nina - although it depends on what you mean by "change". HRT wont stop things from going South ;D
I found HRT made me feel ok - kept things much as they were before and got rid of the hot sweats which were so disruptive. I'm off it at the minute so I'm feeling pretty horrible - back to how I was ten years ago - but I'm hopeful that at my appointment in a couple of weeks time I can persuade my GP to let me have it back.
Taz x :)
-
Exactly as has been said - going through the menopause actually means the menopausal transition - which is the time from when your ovaries start packing up and your hormones fluctuate wildly, until they finally do so ie your last menstrual period. So on or off HRT - you do go through it, but as Mary G says you don't necessarily need to suffer the long term health consequences if you take HRT.
Taz I missed that you were off HRT - sorry to hear you're feeling rough and hope you will be able to re-start soon!
Hurdity x
-
My BP went up - not too high but it was still up - so I was taken off it and had to use a monitor at home for three days. I haven't been back for results yet due to my doc being away but have continued to monitor it with my own (new) monitor and it's averaging out at 108/68 a day with a pulse rate of 63 per minute which is excellent and about where it used to be.
What's the betting the doc will say that it's come down due to stopping HRT? Sorry hijacked thread :D
Taz x
-
Oh Good Topic!
Better to call it "The Change".
I have been lucky in that none of the menopausal problems remained and none of them arrived at the same time. My Oncologist muttered something about 'no HRT for you' at discharge and all the HRT packets say 'no' if a lady has had breast surgery. However. Quality of Life Girls, Quality of Life 'cos that bus ……… and what do they recommend in place of HRT?
Having SUFFERED greatly throughout my menstruating years, no way was I prepared to suffer once the periods stopped and once my depression was under control. I saw a light at the end of a very dark tunnel and would use anything to keep me well!
How many GPs suggest that a lady should have a double mastectomy in oder to take HRT with less risk? When I was called to see the Surgeon who did my lumpectomy sooner than the appt. I said I would have both breasts removed, but he told me that 'ladies with your condition do not require mastectomy. If at a later date you can't live with the worry, then we will discuss it'. It never crossed my mind again.
As for 'giving in' :-\ ………. :bang: :bang: :bang: if you are hungry do you not eat? if you have pain, do you not take medication? if you need an op to remove an in-growing toe-nail …….. ? if you need a rest, do you not book a holiday? ……… The Change might be 'natural', that doesn't make it easy to deal with! Digitalis is natural ;) …….
Accept that at this time of your Life you require 'extra' support ? :-\ ………
-
I have to say that I do feel the same as I did pre-menopause and roughly the same as I did when I was 30, perhaps I am unusual. That said, before the menopause I was battling with different types of contraception that didn't agree with me so in many ways, I am better off now with HRT.
-
I suppose I feel the 'same' other than the crippling anxiety that I've had since the age of 3. I had to learn to pace myself, to say 'no' more often and not feel guilty if I had to cancel …….. fortunately my GP has been very supportive and I think that makes a huge difference to how ladies feel! We don't want a battle when we are already vulnerable!!!
-
I have to say that I do feel the same as I did pre-menopause and roughly the same as I did when I was 30, perhaps I am unusual. That said, before the menopause I was battling with different types of contraception that didn't agree with me so in many ways, I am better off now with HRT.
How old are you Mary G? I found that I felt fine up to around 58. My early fifties was a marvellous time - early sixties not so much!
Taz x
-
Foir myself, I do not rate the phrase 'going through the menopause' because it has simply been going on since my last period and shows no sign of letting up so I am in menopause and for all I know the hot flushes, anxiety etc etc. may go on until I kick the bucket which is a depressing thing in itself.
Meg
-
Hope that's not the case for you meg, {{{big hug}}}
-
I agree with CLKD but I do hope the time will not come when women are as pressured to take HRT as they are denied it at the moment. In my opinion freedom of choice needs to be respected at all stages of our lives.
-
I think 'going through' the menopause is the transition obviously. Really perimenopause. I think for many many women it is the gradual cessation of hormones and the wildly fluctuating hormones at the beginning of perimenopause that are the hardest to live through. When this started for me in a big way ( 40) the first two years I literally thought I was dying and going crazy at the same time almost all day for a very large portion of the month. Every month. I was 'white knuckling' my way through my life. I'm farther along into it now although still getting periods. The wild fluctuations have stopped and so has a lot of the most horrific symptoms ( the constant weeping, panic attacks, anxiety, headaches) and now I'm into vaginal dryness and hot flash territory which in comparison is SO MUCH BETTER.
The hormonal fluctuations go on for quite some time even after our periods have stopped ...we're just not making enough hormone to cause the periods. My mom ( 74) tells me all her friends are fine for the most part other than 'normal aging' stuff. They're happy, productive, active and generally not stress bags all the time. So I think there is a version of 'getting through' that is accurate.
Having said that I will be taking HRT if I'm able to handle it as I do believe it will help prevent or slow a lot of those things that have always been considered 'normal' aging: visual changes, skin changes, arthritis, cognitive decline, osteoporosis etc. I tried it at the beginning of peri and it made me worse and better depending on the time of the month. Sometimes too much estrogen causing it's own set of horrible symptoms. I'm waiting to try again until I start regularly skipping periods so I'll know my estrogen is truly low and not just in wild fluctuation mode as it is at the beginning of 'the change'. :(
-
Progesterone can be difficult for some ladies, causing extreme problems :sigh:
-
I am with dogdoc on this . You don't go through the menopause - you are in menopause once you have past the medically designated no bleed period of 1 yr. What most women mean by the phrase is the menopausal transition and yes , that it is a journey from hell sometimes as our own hormones dive and soar and dive again. It is this time I think most of us struggle with and the medical profession too as adding in external hormones to the mix isn't always any easier than enduring the emotional white knuckle ride of the peri itself. I have had months were I've thought I'd got it cracked only for my own hormones to crank up again and the anxiety and headaches start up again- I'm another that finds excess oestrogen makes me agitated and too much progesterone makes me down. I'll be glad when I am through this, but I think I will be one day !! My mum had tough time anxiety wise but now in meno she is fine.
-
To me, it is like going into a dark tunnel with no idea what is in there and no idea what is on the other side. I read as much as I can, but there are no answers. :-\
-
For me, I can read too much as then I start to fret and get worried about things I have read that might not happen.
I went through perimenopause without even knowing such a thing exists until I discovered this site and forum years after I must have begun the process.
It was helpful to read about things I was experiencing, like VA and night sweats, and finding out about Vagifem. It has also been helpful to share things with other ladies and read their experiences but I would not have wanted to read all about it before it happened. As it is a lot of things I have read on here didn't happened to me so I would have been worrying for nothing and I might have felt I had to try HRT which I have not needed to use apart from the VF.
-
I didn't know it existed either. I just thought - oh - I've started to skip periods and I'm getting hot flushes and sweats, they will stop soon and I thought that would be it - hooray! Little did I know.....
Exactly babyjane - no use spending life's time worrying endlessly about what could be or might be. We need to do the best for ourselves that we can and try to remain optimistic and positive if we can!
Strictly speaking menopause is just that - cessation of periods so once you are through the menopause - ie your ovaries have packed up so you no longer ovulate - you are post-menopause - and that's where you stay for the rest of your life. It's a matter of semantics and definition - but important to understand as many women think you have to go "through the menopause" when you stop HRT which is not the case. Your oestrogen levels will just decline steadily, short term symptoms may or may not come back, and various long term health implications may become apparent if you are unlucky/unhealthy ( so some of it is partly lifestyle - others genetics, and our gender).
Taz great news about the BP - you must have been cutting down on the wine salt!! I thought it was an increase in oestrogen that was riding on the BP being lowered not taking it at all. Sorry - I'm not with it at all at the moment!
Hurdity x
-
I too thought it would be hot flushes for a while and no more periods. Didn't anticipate, the over active bladder issues, the VA soreness, brain fog, anxiety, feeling like I was losing it etc etc.
Then the fact that I had a post meno bleed after 5 months of using estriol cream, which had been improving my bladder and va, this lead to hysteroscopy, and advice of mirena and oestrogel, all have helped but feel I'm in a catch 22.
If I want to come off the HRT I feel my bladder issues and soreness will return, but it seems that just using vaginal oestrigen could well have been the cause of my post meno bleed.
So looking ahead, if I want to try without coil and oestrogel, what's the probability I will have horrible frequent urination again, and soreness during intimacy , just feels like I might have to stay on HRT, despite my health anxiety surrounding taking it long term 😟
-
Hi Ljp
Very very doubtful your bleed had anything to do with vaginal oestrogen (unless it was from trauma to vag tissues) I would have thought - and especially estriol which is extremely weak re stimulating endometrium, but very effective in dealing with VA and bladder symptoms.
Are you still using vaginal oestrogen? I find it strange if not, if it was effective for you. Many women are fine with just local oestrogen - but often women need HRT as well and vice versa - some women need local oestrogen as well as systemic to control VA.
Sorry can't remember how old you are. Local oestrogen does need to be taken for life - so you could try with just this again. There is also vagifem and the estring but these both contain estradiol.
Hurdity x
-
Hi Hurdity,
Thanks for the reply, my story is, I'm now 51, at 50 I was using estriole, as the over active bladder and urgency was ruining my life.
I had anxiety too looking back, and brain fog hot flushes, night sweats, but wanted to try and cope with as little medical intervention as possible.
After using the estriol cream for six months, I had a light bleed, I'd been post meno for 14 months st that time, so GP referred me for a hysteroscopy.
I went expecting that and nothing more, so was surprised when durning the procedure, the gynaecologist suggested I could have a mirena coil to protect my uterus, and then use a patch or gel, plus an estring for more help locally.
She had to open my cervix as it was closed, she said I was too young for that (whatever that meant) she just said that a closed cervix is something she wouldn't expect in a 50 year old.
She left me to think about things with my husband and said I could go back at the end of her clinic and have to mirena and estring fitted, and she could prescribe patches, or I could read up and then see my GP.
It was all a bit overwhelming really, but I discussed over coffe with my husband, and he said, why not give it a try, it's not irreversible and it might make you feel better generally.
So I went back, had the coil and estring fitted, then came home and panicked feeling I was then trapped into HRT.
I then sought advice on here, and was advised to get started on systemic oestrigen too, which I did, and decide on oestrogel, which my GP happily prescribed for me.
Yes I do feel a lot better generally, I feel more in control of my emotions and a lot more level.
My bladder is a lot better, although some days urgency can be an issue, and coffe will always send me running to the loo.
My main problem is feeling completely at ease with using HRT it still worries me that it could cause breast cancer, I still feel I've failed to cope with a natural part of aging without giving in to medical assistance.
And I do wonder how I will cope when I try coming off it, or if I will have to come off it
-
If you are hungry, do you not eat? So your body requires support - if that support is helping ease symptoms, go with it? Do you want to remain miserable and feeling generally un-well? Think about how you ease day-2-day symptoms, i.e. a cold, headache - taking medication, is that 'giving in'? Every condition/illness/disease humans suffer is natural!
I had breast cancer. Still here! I have HRT for vaginal atrophy and if I had suffered as some ladies have, I would have insisted on HRT. You may require local treatment for VA, i.e. Vagifem or Ovestin1mg which plumps up tissues which means that the lips don't stick together causing problems.
Quality of Life is important to me. I go on the story that the bus might be along and run me over, long B4 cancer was caused by HRT - which incidentally, worry was raised from very old now dis-counted Research!
The Gynaecologist sounds on the ball! They wouldn't suggest treatment if they thought treatment won't help!