Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Mary G on May 03, 2016, 06:50:21 PM
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Now that the holiday season is getting underway and in view of some of the recent posts on here, I thought I revive this thread again.
Many of us on here, myself included, are on private prescriptions and are forking out £8.00 a throw on Oestrogel and I thought this might be of interest to those who would like to save money.
You can buy Oestrogel over the counter and without a prescription in Spanish pharmacies and it costs about €4.00 per 80 gram tube. It is exactly the same as the UK gel but it is called Oestraclin and it comes in a tube in a red and white box. It is not a pump mechanism, it is like an old fashioned toothpaste tube with a slide and you simply squirt the gel onto the slide. One entire slide = two pumps and half a slide = one pump. All pharmacies usually have at least one tube in stock but you can order several tubes and it can usually be delivered to the pharmacy the next day for you to collect.
You can also buy boxes of Utrogestan (both 100 mg and 200 mg) over the counter and that also costs about €4.00 for a box of 30 capsules.
You can also buy other HRT products OTC like Angeliq (about €23.00) and Livial (Tibolone) but I'm afraid I can't give you all the prices and I don't have a list of all the different brands available but I can find out if anyone is interested.
I am not encouraging people to self medicate, this is simply a way of saving money if are on private prescriptions and you happen to be going to Spain on holiday.
Something to bear in mind next time you are planning a holiday!
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Will this facility stop if we come out of the EU? What do Customs have to say about travelling with medication without prescription, I know that some Countries can be really strict.
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I don't see why leaving the EU would make it any different when bringing it back from a holiday in your luggage but it might be different if you posted it because you might have to start filling in a non-EU declaration. This is all part of the great unknown.
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:thankyou: pity the MM charabanc is virtual and not reality ;D - I feel a trip coming on ;-).
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Very helpful thanks!
When they say that the Spanish live longer because of the Mediterranean diet, maybe it's actually the HRT. ;)
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Do you know if there are any restrictions sending it through the post now?
I'm only taking hand luggage so can probably only bring back one gel, so thought of posting it back to my UK address.
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You won't get it in your hand luggage as its more than limit I saw loads of hand luggage being opened at Manchester airport the other week and larger quantities being disposed of. I got some as Mary said. doubt they can do ote if you can legally buy it and you have a receipt. My daughter always brings anti biotics back. Shall be getting some in france but I dont know why as I can get it all from my Dr's! Lol! Stockpiling I think fir the day they try to take it off me Although at mo they can have the utrogestan! !!!
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Will that include Tenerife Mary G I'm going for a wedding at the end of May so I might pick some up?
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Yes, they have all the same products in the Canaries and the Balearics.
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Good stuff, this is why I love this website, don't know where I'd be without it
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Just in case anyone is interested, I have found out that Livial (Tibolone) 2.5mg costs €11.30 for a box of 28 tablets. This is a popular brand in Spain and they usually have at least 1 box in stock but as always, they can order more in for next day delivery.
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Thank you for the detailed information Mary G,
Think I will go to Barcelona and stock up in a few months. Do you contact a Spanish pharmacy in advance of travel?
What I don't understand is how, even within this supposed one country (irrespective of in/out EU) some areas will prescribe estrogel / ultro on the NHS and some won't? I have had to pay for my private prescription.
I received a letter from my well meaning G.P who had written to the prescribing team for advise on my behalf regarding my request for Estro/Utro..
He then wrote to tell me that,
'Estrogel is apparently not available in the UK. ....and Utrogestan is not recommended'...
C🐾
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To answer some of the questions, no, there are no postal restrictions between Spain and the UK for sending the gel.
I always put a tube of gel in my hand luggage in case my suitcase gets lost but it is within the limit (80 grams) i.e. under 100 gram hand luggage restriction.
Callisto, you don't need to contact the pharmacy in advance of travel but make sure you order it on day 1 of your holiday so that it is ready in time. They usually have it in for the next day - interestingly, the gel is made in Barcelona.
As for the NHS and their prescription guidelines, they are all over the place, some GPs will prescribe it and others won't. I gave up trying to get it on the NHS years ago and just do my own thing. Life's too short!
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Mary , do you know if any of the patches are sold otc in Spain ? I know there's not the same private prescription problems with this type of hrt but it's useful to know.
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Thank you Mary,
Another reason to holiday to Barcelona and haha, 'Yes!' Life is too short and it is hard enough navigating peri/men without a constant pitched battle to achieve the prescription that you would think should be every woman's individual informed choice- to determine her own path..
C🐾
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Sunnydays, yes, you can buy oestrogen patches in any pharmacy. They do 25, 50, 75 and 100mcg Estraderm patches. Can't remember how much they cost but it's not that much.
I can find out about other products and prices on request.
The Spanish pharmaceutical business is going to wonder what's hit it!
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That would be good Stellajane if they listened but they don't and they are constantly worrying about getting it wrong due to the huge mistakes they made in the past. You know the days when they said it was OK for all women to just take oestrogen? ? So now they blanket prescribe and that is where the problem lies. I get all 3 Studd Regime on NHS through my gynae so if one person gets it we are all entitled to it. It's not dearer than normal HRT. My Doctor had admitted she knew nothing and thanked me for finding it all out.
Let's clarify GP's many under the age of 40 are put through training as students with money from the drug companies they come out reading the BNP bible they are no different to you or me and they certainly don't have god given powers some learn well and some don't. History is full of medical mistakes. Trust your instincts and yourself bf you put your trust in someone else. Sermon over!
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Another reason why medication becomes 'short' or un-available in the UK is because the NHS won't pay for it >:(. Mainland Europe/US does pay what is asked, so the Pharmaceutical Companies will sell it to those who will pay, it's a business after all.
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That's true only the Cheap stuff for the NHS my pharmacist told me this he said some prescription charges are way over the cost of the medicines as well. The good money gets spent on cutting down the rain forests to provide enough sheets of paper for all the form filling!
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Oh that could be another topic ;D
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Well said Kate50, that is about the size of it. Too many doctors think they are above criticism and have a God complex. They should be subjected to the same level of scrutiny and accountability as other public sector workers. As for their education and training on HRT, for many it seems to be virtually non-existent and if my experience with my GP is anything to go by, you might as well ask the cat for advice. The fact that my knowledge of HRT was far greater than hers is truly frightening. It's not just GPs either, take PompeyLou's dreadful experience with her gynaecologist, a supposed expert.
It is an absolute disgrace that things have come to this and women are forced seek help privately and/or buy their HRT in Spain and these GPs should be ashamed of themselves. I can only hope that plenty of doctors read this forum and make the effort to educate themselves.
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……. and don't get me started on the Vet. profession ………. :-X
I digress. Well said Mary G! If only GPs would listen to their patients ……. (it isn't menopause that some patients have problems with either, it's listening full stop! )
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Lol yes mine tried to get me to bring our dogs for yearly vaccinations I told him I use homeopathy he said nothing!
Women use to have to go to back street abortionists are we further on or not?
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Now we know why so many Brits retire to Spain. Sun, sea and Oestrogel on tap!
I'm going to feel like a drugs dealer smuggling the goods in. How exciting! 8)
I'm sure the vet knows more about HRT than a GP. In fact, I think anyone knows more.
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When I go on holiday I always take homeopathic remedies they are in little drugs bags and that's what they look like drugs! One of these days I think I may get my cases pulled aside. I take a letter from my homeopath with me just incase
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Imagine getting pulled over with a case full of Oestrogel! They'd probably think its a job-lot of intimate lube and arrest you on suspicion of solicitation.
... even more exciting! Now how much are those hold bags. ;)
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Doesn't Dr Currie read the posts?
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If anybody needs any Utrogestan I have 21 200mg vaginal capsules with disposable applicators. I've been put on continuous BCP so don't need them anymore. I'm happy to mail them to anybody that needs them X
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Lol I wonder if you will struggle to give them away? Maybe not
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They'll be going back to the pharmacy if nobody wants them.
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Well I may even have them myself if no one wants them as am suppose to try 200 for 7 days but bad enough on 100!
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Let me know if you get no takers
Thanks
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No takers Kate, so yours if you want them. If so pm me postal details X
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I've been really busy, and away etc so only just catching up with this thread which frankly I find of some concern.
I totally agree as most of us on here do - that many doctors are woefully ignorant about HRT and the menopause and a huge education drive needs to be done so that women receive the best treatment based on an informed appraisal of their medical history and current state of knowledge accessing the most up to date information and guidelines.
NICE recognises that this is a huge challenge and the medical profession is beginning the enormous task of changing practice from the top down and the bottom up as you can read here: https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng23/chapter/Menopause-implementation-getting-started#the-challenge-communicating-the-long-term-benefits-and-risks-of-hormone-replacement-therapy
In the meantime the situation is less than perfect. OK so you can't get what you want, so one can stick two fingers up at the system and do your own thing - buy what you want - and get on with your life.
Personally I think this is not the best approach - although fine might be OK for an individual in the short term.
Firstly I think it does future women a disservice not to try to help change the system from the bottom up - little bit by little bit. Far better to educate ourselves and challenge doctors who are ignorant of the current guidelines and evidence, with well-informed information. I know this is not going to be easy but that's why we are on here - to help each other be more knowledgeable and confident, so that we can challenge decisions that are made about our treatment if we do not agree.
Secondly - I know the NHS is not perfect but it's damned good - and it is there for a reason. The system in Spain is completely different - I don't know how their health system works. However I think it is wrong to be able to obtain oestrogen without prescription over the counter without medical supervision - for obvious reasons. It might be a pain to have to get all this from the doctors in UK but at least we should be informed what the risks are, and can be reviewed medically, scanned, investigated etc if there are any concerns.
I know it is very kind and well meaning, but I think it is irresponsible to offer to buy oestrogen gel and send it to someone else and I would urge you not to accept this from someone else. Fine if you want to go down this route yourself and are prepared to take the risks, as Stellajane said - but as she also said this is not right. It is not the answer - we owe it to other women and those less fortunate (both financially or less articulate/knowledgeable) to try to change things here in UK and get those guidelines implemented by challenging doctors and asking for referrals where we can, rather than buying them gel!
By the way the same thing does not apply to progesterone as this is harmless even in large quantities so posting this to each other is OK (eg if you have some left over).
Hurdity x
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Does Dr Currie not read this forum? Surely there is enough here for an interested Dr to do something about it higher up?
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Kate50 - please read the NICE link I gave in my post below to see what is being done or suggested higher up. Changes won't happen overnight but of course it is being addressed at top level!.
I am sure Dr Currie scans this forum from time to time - and she is current Chair of the British Menopause Society http://www.thebms.org.uk/ whose annual conference for health professionals in a couple of weeks, this year is devoted to the NICE Guidelines - from publication to practice! Things are being done higher up....
I feel it is up to us to help change things from the bottom up as well ie the grass roots - women that we are - as I said in my post!!
Hurdity x
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In this county once medication has left the Pharmacy/Surgery they won't accept it unless it goes for burning which seems an insult when people all over the World have no access to regular health care or medication!
We don't know how often Dr Currie drops by to see what Members are discussing.
Buying off the internet can be dangerous. What might have similar labelling to what is prescribed in the UK may be full of rubbish. Everything prescribed here has undergone rigourous testing before it's even considered for patient use by
NICE :-\
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Thank-you for bringing this to my attention. I would love to be able to contribute to this forum more often if time permitted!
I would not recommend buying over the internet or abroad. Products such as Oestrogel and Utrogestan are readily available on prescription in the UK and there should be no need to bypass the current system. If your GP is unaware/unwilling to prescribe, then ask to be referred to a specialist service. My job as chair of the British Menopause Society is to provide education so that there is a general level of understanding across primary care, and to increase the number of specialist services around the UK--we are well on the way to doing this but much is still to do.
Best wishes to you all
Heather
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Thank you Dr Currie ,I was getting a tad concerned about the way this thread was going :-\
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Thank-you for responding on this thread Dr Currie. We are so pleased that things are beginning to change through the sterling efforts of the medical profession!
Dazned - I think many of us were.....
Hurdity
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This is really good to know. Wish I had a trip planned. Does nayone know of anywhere it can be purchased online and guaranteed to be oestrogel not oestrodose?
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YES
onlineclinic sell oestrogel (branded) for about £28
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Katia, I'm pleased you found my thread useful, at least you can bear it in mind for the future. I can tell you that the Spanish brand of Oestraclin is as good as the UK brand Oestrogel. It now comes with a syringe as opposed to a slide for measuring.
Annie0710, that sounds like a lot of money, surely that's not for one canister of Oestrogel?
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Yes it's for one canister
I did it because I wanted to give oestrogel a go, think I've more or less tried every other form of oestrogen, bar a pellet lol so instead of doing Drs again asking I thought I'd sample, felt ok on it and gave permission for them to tell my gp then noticed gp had put it on repeats so don't need to go there again. I'm going spain in September so might bulk shop my hrt !!!
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Annie, at least you have been able to try the gel and you can now obtain it from you doctor (NHS?) so it was a worthwhile exercise. It sounds like it's working out for you, how many pumps are you on?
Oestraclin (Oestrogel) costs just over €4.00 in Spain so much cheaper than a private UK prescription and one hell of a lot cheaper than the online pharmacy!
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It'll be interesting to have a look when I get there
I'm on 2.5 pumps and a blob of Tostran, I feel a bit better than I did, still have social anxiety and mild low mood but there's a definite improvement
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Really good to know, thanks Shortie !
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Annie, long may your success continue. Because you have had a hysterectomy, you can easily increase to 3 or even 4 pumps of gel without having to worry about the dreaded progesterone and having a heavy period at the end of it.
Shortie, yes, it is just over €4.00 per 80 gram tube.
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I'm slowly increasing Mary, my problem is for the last 5 years each time I've increased oestrogen dose I get racing heart worse and the jittery feeling which I hate
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Thanks ladies. The inline price is high as. Out of it is for the private prescription. I think the gel is only about £5. I'm going to try it and get the proper branded one as I don't think the one I'm getting from the GP is doing anything. I'm going to compare to the same dose of estrogen from Qlaira and see. I. Just on my few days off Utrogestan and my libido has taken a nose dive. So maybe the gel is t being absorbed at all
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I bought a tube of Oestrogel in a pharmacy in Spain the other day and it only cost €3.45. I asked if it had been reduced but the pharmacist didn't know. It would be interesting to know if others are paying the same or perhaps it was a mistake?
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Probably a silly question Mary but do you ask in Spanish ? And are there many questions or do they literally hand over the oestrogel and testosterone gel?
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Annie, that's not a silly question at all. I sometimes ask in Spanish if they don't speak English but they usually do and their English is usually better than my Spanish!
Nobody has ever asked me any questions when buying Oestrogel (Oestraclin) in Spain and you don't have to justify yourself in any way, they just hand it over. Most EU member states have a far more flexible system than the UK when it comes to obtaining medication. You can buy UK HRT products OTC in Gibraltar without any problems too - except in Morrisons pharmacy, they go strictly by the book.
I have never been able to buy testosterone gel over the counter and without a prescription in Spain, I was told it is a controlled substance but I think someone else on here might have managed it once.
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Thanks Mary, really helpful
We go to Spain each year and from now on instead of gift buying I'll be stocking up !!! X
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Hi maryG I just started divigel in sachet form, this is the one they use I. Ireland. Just wondering if I his is the same as the one in Spain as I'm currently paying €20 a box
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Yammy, it sounds like the gel you are using in Ireland is similar to Sandrena which also comes in sachets - do you use it everyday? The question is, how long does a box last? It would be worth buying some gel while you are in Spain and trying it out - 1 tube lasts between 2 and 4 weeks depending on dosage. If you like it you can then bulk buy and I would imagine that overall, it will work out cheaper than the Irish brand.
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How many do you think we could buy Mary ? I'm having visions of spending my 10 day honeymoon in September visiting every single pharmacia I see getting 2 cans of oestrogel from each lol
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Annie, you can buy as much gel as you like within reason! The best thing to do is to find a local pharmacy and place an order as soon as you arrive. They should manage to get it in for the next day or perhaps a couple of days later.
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Hi Mary G, there are 28 sachets in the box, take one a day so should last four weeks.
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Annie, you can buy as much gel as you like within reason! The best thing to do is to find a local pharmacy and place an order as soon as you arrive. They should manage to get it in for the next day or perhaps a couple of days later.
Brilliant, thank you so much for your advice x
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Hi I live in Spain & when I used to be on oestrogel & couldn't get it in Spain I did try oestraclin but I definitely found it much weaker than oestrogel & I had to use an awful lot more to get the same dosage as oestrogel.
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I have never been able to buy testosterone gel over the counter and without a prescription in Spain, I was told it is a controlled substance but I think someone else on here might have managed it once.
.... That was me. A box of 30 tubes of testogel for 50 euro from the pharmacia in gran canaria. It's exactly the same as a friend is prescribed by her GP (in London) bar the writing which is in Spanish. Thankfully I can read and speak a bit.
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When I used to use testogel I could buy it in Spain but they wouldn't sell me as much as 30 tubes. I think she would allow me only 5 & if I needed any more she said I would have to see my doctor. I have a doctor in Spain & when I am given a prescription the medicines are normally much cheaper than the UK. I live in the North of Spain
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Thanks Blakeygray, I knew someone had managed to buy testosterone OTC in Spain and €50.00 for 30 tubes sounds very reasonable.
Paisley, that's interesting and what a sensible approach to allow you 5 tubes. You are right, medication is much cheaper in Spain than the UK.
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Mary G pharmacies won't post to the UK they say they are forbidden to do so 🙁
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Katia, thanks for that information. I have always bought it in person at the pharmacy and never actually tried to buy it over the phone with a creditcard. I'm sure someone on here ordered some Oestraclin by mail order once?
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I went to my usual pharmacy in Spain yesterday and I'm afraid the price Oestrogel (Oestraclin) has increased to €9.76. Prices of pharmaceutical products are controlled by the Spanish government and there are sometimes computer glitches but it has been confirmed from the distribution centre that this is the correct price - for now anyway. This has happened before and it reverted back to the original price but there is no guarantee it will happen this time.
The packaging has changed recently and the measuring slide has been replaced with a syringe but that doesn't justify this kind of price hike.
With the pound tanking, I'm afraid this option might not be any cheaper for people on UK private prescriptions now.
Hopefully others will post with their experiences.
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Still very handy for us if we run out/forgot to pack
I forgot to pack my elleste solo a few years ago travelling to Spain and had no idea I could've bought hrt otc, I just went without and apologised in advance in case I was moody lol x
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Do you live in Spain Mary G?
When you're over 60 it's free ::). Some consolation for getting old!
Hurdity x
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I am self employed and spend a lot of time in Spain but I am not resident so I won't get free healthcare when I am over 60. Unfortunately with Brexit, free healthcare in EU member states is looking increasingly doubtful in the future and probably will not be open to UK nationals who become resident in EU states post A50 or end of March 2019, depending on when the cut off date is, we still don't know.
I'm pleased everyone is finding this thread useful.
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Mary G, I wish I could find a pharmacy that would post. The climodien is 2mg dienogest and 2mg estradiol, the same as some of qlaira pills. I'm peri and struggling to find a hrt to work. The gel is causing me to have puffy swollen eyes. I think possibly an allergy to one of the inactive ingredients. I'm wondering about Angeliq, but ???????
We seem to have a lot less options in the UK as there isn't enough private prescriptions for the pharmaceutical company to licence the products and the NHS will only supply a few.
I believe you can get testogel in The Netherlands. I have been to scared to try it as yet, but think I'm heading in that direction.
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Katia, I was speaking to the UK trained pharmacist in Morrisons in Gibraltar (they go strictly by the book in Morrisons) and he said the same thing i.e. not as many pharmaceutical products available in the UK/Gibraltar as Spain and you don't get the new products as quickly and sometimes not at all. As you say, this is because the system is different and in Spain you always pay for half of the cost of your prescriptions if you are in their free healthcare system, hence more choice. I asked him about Duavive and he got out his latest manual and it wasn't listed. He then went to the computer but again, it was not listed so not available there yet. He had never even heard of Bazedoxifene whereas in Spain Duavive and separate Bazedoxifene are already on the central computer system and on sale - the pharmacists are all well versed on these products too.
It is a pity they can't post products from Spain to the UK but apparently it is against the law. You can buy Angeliq over the counter and it costs about €23.00 per pack. I don't know if you can buy climodien but I can ask if you like?
Are you progesterone intolerant?
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I would not recommend buying over the internet or abroad. Products such as Oestrogel and Utrogestan are readily available on prescription in the UK and there should be no need to bypass the current system. If your GP is unaware/unwilling to prescribe, then ask to be referred to a specialist service. My job as chair of the British Menopause Society is to provide education so that there is a general level of understanding across primary care, and to increase the number of specialist services around the UK--we are well on the way to doing this but much is still to do.
Best wishes to you all
Heather
I know this was from a while back but thought it appropriate to post again here since there is discussion about buying HRT from the internet again. Members of this forum should not be thinking about self-medicating nor be encouraged in this respect - ie just buying a product you fancy, rather than being prescribed it buy a GP or specialist who knows of any health conditions etc you may have.
If it is a product you have been prescribed but can't get hold of - that may well be a different matter - although surely the doc in the country you live in will only prescribe from what is available?
Hurdity x
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Mary G, I thought I was progesterone intolerant, I seemed to be getting more symptoms. As I'd had over a week off the HRT for blood tests I had a clean start. I started the gel. Back came the problems, so I stopped the gel and just used the Utrogestan and I have no problems. Gone are the meno symptoms too. I pm sure it will build up though and I may not be saying that tomorrow. I think I do better with tablet form of e to gel.
I saw a product, nuavelle, I think it's called. It's standard estradiol and norestimate, but it says it's for women who cannot take standard HRT, with P intolerance. It looked like standard HRT to me, but I'm not sure if it's been formulated somehow differently. I've also read there are a few friendlier progestegens in the pipeline. Climodien, available in Europe, is equal in e and P, which seems unusual for a HRT. I had no problems with that P On Qlaira and my body seems to be pretty sensitive and fussy.
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Katia, Climodien is indeed available in Spain! It costs €12.46 per packet so not very expensive.
It is extraordinary if this product is not available in the UK because it is not prohibitively expensive so there is no reason for it not to be licensed in the UK on cost grounds. Presumably the EMA (currently based in Canary Wharf but soon to be relocated elsewhere in the EU27) must be approving these different forms of HRT for other member states.
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Do you think it's the cost of actually getting the licence that is prohibiting these products? I think if the are manufatured they should be available. There's lot of new progestegens in the pipeline and our choice in the UK seems so limited.
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Katia, I wish I knew the answer to that because I really don't get it. I can understand that there are financial constraints within the NHS but so many of these new products are inexpensive so it doesn't make sense. Could it be the cost of the licence as you suggest or is it that the NHS don't want to have too many different products knocking about?
I completely agree with you, freedom of choice is the name of the game. In the context of HRT this is particularly important for progesterone intolerant women to have immediate access to all new HRT preparations that could help them and if these products are manufactured legally and approved by the EMA, then everyone should have the right to use them even if they have to obtain them privately and/or buy it themselves.
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I was just reading about Osphena. It's a tablet that acts like estrogen in the vagina, but not in the body. It seems to be available in the US. Is it available in Spain/Europe too? It sounds ideal for those of us who are taking estrogen mainly for VA. Again, it's not available in the UK ::)
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Katia, Osphena sounds like an interesting product. I will ask about it and let you know.
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It's available in the States. It came out in 2013. It does indeed sound interesting.
I have a private prescription for gel, but it's not really working out for me
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Mary G, sorry I've just seen your reply. I have some fond memories of good times in Gibraltar. I'm not entirely progesterone intolerant, it just seems that I only need a tiny bit otherwise I get a rash. At first I thought it was an allergy, but I ink it's the progesterone/progestegen raising the basal body temperature and causing a prickly heat rash. I'm having a hard time finding one that works for my skin and hair. They seem to make my hair fall out. I'm also finding estradiol doesn't agree with me too well. Provera made my hair shed, Utrogestan just makes my mood too low and makes me so groggy I cannot function. I like the P in Angeliq, but the Angeliq dries my vagina and I don't think that P is available on its own. I'm scared of cerazette mini pill because of Mav's experience with her hair and eyebrows coming out. That leave duavive or dydrogesterone. Femoston made me feel odd and blow up like a ballon, but I'm not sure if it was because I still had the Utrogestan in my system and estradiol goes too quickly into my system and for some reason I think it causes the burning vagina. Premarin is much slower released. I believe dydrogesterone is available in Spain as a stand alone? I'm wondering whether to give it a go with the Premarin and then I think I only have duavive left.
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Katia, Duavive is indeed available OTC in Spain and it costs nearly €35.00 so not cheap. Does anyone know how much it costs with a private prescription in the UK?
Sorry to hear you are having problems finding the right combination. I will ask about dydrogesterone and let you know.
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Mary G, please would you enquiry about drosperinone that's in Angeliq too? I really like that one and it's antiandrogenic but the estradiol in it is causing me problems. I'm struggling to find something to go with the Premarin. At this point I'm even wondering if utro isn't the lesser of the evils, but it makes me so groggy I can barely function. My consultant charges £50 for a private prescription and them there would be the product costs, so it would certainly be more in the UK
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Mary G, at this point I'm wondering if there much difference between Angeliq and half a Yasmin at least the Yasmin doesn't have estradiol ::)
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Katia, I will certainly ask about the drosperinone. The progesterone in Angeliq is well tolerated by many and even I got on better with it than many of them but I am severely intolerant so I'm not a very good example!
£50.00 plus cost of medication is very expensive so buying it yourself in Spain would definitely be a good saving. Perhaps you could get a significant discount if you just had the consultation and bought it yourself?
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Mary G, i e been looking at duavive, the estrogen in it is on the low side. Do you know if it's possible to take two of them? It's called Duavee in America.
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Katia, I suppose there is nothing stopping you taking 2 Duavive tablets but it would get very expensive. Hopefully they will come up with different doses as it gains popularity.
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Maybe it's possible to add a premarin with it ????????
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Katia, the PIL states that you should not add any extra oestrogen in case of womb lining build up but if you do it with the supervision of regular scans, you might be able to do it.
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Mary G, I'll ask my consultant about it. We've determined Premarin works. I'll ask him about duavive. I did see a study based on a group on 0.425mg and one on 0.625mg so I'm assuming it's ok, or it may be OK to take two? I'll ask him. It's new so he may have to check into it.
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Katia I commented on this on the other thread. If you could link to the studies involving different doses that would be great. The product info that I found refers to the fact that different combinations of doses were tested during the trials but the document I looked at didn't give the details. I haven't done an in depth search! There will be a reason why this particular dose of the tablet was selected - and it could have been for example due to bleeding or something (like endometrial hyperplasia) on higher doses? Also I think it was only tested for 2 years. Hopefully your gynae will have access to all the studies and will form a judgement as to whether experimentation is advisable.
Hurdity x
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At the mention of Lenzetto, does anyone know what it costs ?
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Hi suziq im sure MaryG said it's €10.92 otc in Spain and she's doing very well on it,I'm going to get some in May when I'm over she also said it's slightly stronger than Oestrogel.good luck xx
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Yes, Lenzetto (Evamist in the US) is getting a lot of interest. I have been trialling it for a few weeks now and have to say that I think it is a brilliant, highly effective and user friendly product and I like it even better than Oestrogel which I never thought I would say! You simply spray it onto your inner forearm and it dries within seconds.
It costs €10.77 (cheaper than in the US I believe) in all pharmacies in Spain but it is still very new so you may have to order it but if you should get same day delivery if you place your order before 2pm.
For anyone who has problems with absorption, it's definitely worth a try.
I can't take any credit for this, it is all thanks to paisley who introduced us to Lenzetto.
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This is great and very useful for those who live in Spain but as it's not licensed in this country most of us need to work with the perfectly adequate oestrogen products we have in UK. It was licensed in the EU last year or might have been 2016 and is available in many other countries apart from ours, and not quite sure why. It would be great to have even more choice!
Mary G have you given up with Duavive now?
Hurdity x
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Great thanks for the info. Might give it a try.
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I don't live in Spain and I really resent paying £30 a can in U.K. because my gps won't comply with the meno specialists recommendations because I'm 60 and I'm not prepared to keep changing gps in the hope that I get one with half a brain that will comply with the NICE guidelines,I can't believe that my meno specialist has to grovel to them in his letters and because I saw him privately they have that option it's ridiculous.ive been waiting ten weeks now for an nhs gynie appointment so I will go down whichever route I have to in order to keep well.
I will most definately buy my hrt otc in Spain or anywhere else in Europe that I happen to either holiday in or have contacts in when it's a third of the price I have to pay in the U.K.Im just so ticked off I've worked hard all my life and paid into a system that has behaved so appallingly in my case.
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Hi, does this potentially mean that
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Whoops sent before I'd finished. Does this potentially mean you can buy any hrt otc in Spain if they have it?
Rosie x
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Yes. But it may have a different name to the UK alternative.
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Ok thank you. X
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Daisydot - I quite agree it's appalling not to have the treatment you need on NHS but hopefully when you see the NHS gynae you have been referred to your GP will comply. The worst thing is how inequitable the system is and how variable throughout the UK eg here in the SW my GP will give me whatever I need and has just now prescribed testosterone - so I also get oestrogen, utrogestan, vagifem, and estriol cream through my local GP practice (free!). I wish it were the same for everyone but it is important to keep pushing for what we are entitled to and what the guidelines say. As you have been prescribed oestrogen then in your case, as long as you are monitored by your doc - then having to buy the odd prescription abroad may be OK.
I am amazed it is possilbe to buy oestrogen OTC without a prescription and for most women this is not advisable without medical supervision and if you have never been prescribed HRT.
I can understand your frustration Daisydot - but we have the products and we have the NHS - I do hope you manage to get what you need soon! Have you written to the practice? I still can't believe they will not consider the private prescription. An open-minded GP should welcome that you have sught specialist help and only need look up the credentials of the gyane you have seen in order to get reassurance that s/he is bona-fide and qualified - surely?
Hurdity x
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I just want to add be careful with the estrogel in Spain because the new syringe that comes with it does not accurately measure the right dose. I was overdosing on estrogen with this method and became quite ill because of it. When I got home I used one of those small jewellers scales to measure the dose correctly.
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Hi Hurdity thank you for replying and yes I'm just dumbfounded by these gps,worst is when I phoned the secretary to chase my appointment she told me I have actually been referred to a gp with special interest in women's health so it's not an actual gynie,my meno consultant advised me by letter if it's a gynie she's referred me to then not to go as they do not have the expertise in the field I need.I sent a letter into the practice manager outlining everything that has been going on with the gp refusing to follow consultantants recommendations and saying I shouldn't be on HRT at my age etc she also critiqued my online consultation with dr currie not just the meno expert,and I asked the practice manager if she could help to resolve this (pointing out the relevant NICE guidlines) and she responded by saying she's off on holiday next week and anyway can not deal with this and has passed on to a clinician to deal with but will tell her assistant to check on it's progress.what the hell does that mean! I'm off on my jolly's and can't be bothered maybe! I've twice put in requests for hrt online and gotten them sent direct to chemist and I asked the consultant to push again for the dxa scan so I got that done last week,the head partner authorised it and I got 3 days notice of the appointment.They are well aware of the stress I'm under with having to have brain scans done as well so you'd think they'd try and help more I'm only asking them to comply with a consultants requests .I will attempt another appointment with the lead partner again when my scan results come back and try and get the hrt put on repeat,I'm really not feeling well though so if I'm honest I'm not up for fighting on everyone's behalf when I need help that I'm not getting.Im pleased you get what you need from your gp practice your very lucky.x
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Hi Daisydot
Sorry to hear that you haven't got any further with your GP surgery.
I really cann't understand why one surgery will prescribe and another won't I can only think it comes down to the personal view held by a GP re HRT which is very unfair.
Hope you get a positive response soon.
Love Lanzalover x
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Morning LL thank you for your kind words and your bang on it is about her preferences and views,she seemed so nice as well but then went on the attack saying I'm 60 and shouldn't be on it anyway,I've got no fight today I'm feeling low so if I can just get past today,tomorrow has to be better.my bladder and kidney are misbehaving again really drags me down.
Thanks so much again xx
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Hope you are feeling a little better today Daisydot.
Starting to worry now I've turned 60 that someone may try to stop my HRT >:( there is no way I'm going to stop before I have finished work as I couldn't cope so I'll just keep putting my repeat scripts in and hope no one questions it (fingers crossed).
The GP who prescribed my HRT and the one who deals with the repeat scrips are both partners in the practise and I get the impression they are pro HRT so I think as long as they don't retire I should be OK.
I certainly won't be seeing the much younger female GP who specialises in female health after a fight with her for vagifem her words were your already on HRT we don't want to increase your risk of a stroke any more !!! Imagine how you would feel if you had a stroke next week !!!!!!!!
I have no greater risk of a stroke than anyone else and the repeat scripts are still be signed several years later.
Love Lanzalover x
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Good morning LL I'm feeling better today thank you I'm going on holiday on Friday so I was a bit panicky in case it was my kidneys again but the pains eased off now so it's probably muscular I seem to get that a lot.
I hope you don't get an ounce of the hassle I get it's all well and good saying print off the nice guidelines but they won't even look at the piece of paper and the women gps are the worst of the bunch I've dealt with.fingers crossed nothing will change for you and if it does then just buy it on one of your jaunts to Spain don't risk coming off it when your doing so well.
Enjoy your day xx
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It's been so interesting reading through this whole thread. But it does make my blood boil at how chaotic and erratic the prescribing of Oestrogel and associated HRT is in the UK.
The fact that Oestrogel is so easily available OTC in other first world countries like Spain just proves to me that it is far, far more benign than we are lead to believe here in the UK. My parents have lived in Cyprus and the Far East where anti biotics are easily available OTC too. There wasn't a pandemic of people over dosing on antibiotics, because by and large people are quite sensible.
I would be very interested to see if there is a marked increase in endometrial hyperplasia in Spain compared to the UK? As it is, I have arranged a source in Spain that can supply me direct with Oestrogel if necessary - because I'm so fed up of the NHS playing fast and loose with my medication.
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GRL, I agree with everything you have said, there does seem to be a propensity to treat women like children who need protecting from themselves.
There is also a wider issue here and that is freedom of choice a lack of up to date products. Take Lenzetto (Avamist in the US) which is a relatively new oestrogen spray that I feel a lot of women on here could benefit from. Why is this not available in the UK? The irony is that it was approved by the EMA (currently located in Canary Wharf but soon to be relocated to Amsterdam) for use in all EU member states and yet it is not available in the UK, why?
Why is Utrogestan still not licensed to be used vaginally in the UK when it is practically everywhere else? Nobody has ever been able to answer that very simple question.
The NHS still seem to push the cheapest brands of HRT and many GPs still seem reluctant to prescribe Oestrogel/Utrogestan.
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This young gp that I saw today for my dxa scan results actually suggested I go on hrt,you couldn't make this up,I said to her I've been battling with this practice for god knows how long as I've been told I shouldn't be on it at my age of 60 and you have been fighting my private consultants recommendations on this,her face,I said so are you hrt friendly then? She struggled then tried to backtrack giving the usual risk chat so I interrupted her and said “which has all been discussed with the gp concerned and the meno consultant and I'm well aware of the risks and the nice guidelines and at the end of the day it's my informed choiceâ€.she didnt even know it was private meno consultant who requested the dxa scan then she asked me which hrt I was on.I really do despair but saying that she's arranged fasting blood tests for vit d calcium levels because of the osteopenia,and thyroid etc so good result and a bit more pleasant.
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Mary G, I totally agree about the lack of choice in the UK. The drug companies will not get the licences unless the NHS will purchase it as the private market is too small and they cannot recoup their costs. I'm thinking we may see a change when things that are available over the counter are no longer available through a prescription and then more things become over the counter. I think it's in,y a matter of time before HRT and birth control are pharmacy items in the UK too.
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Katia, that's a good point. It does seem far too restrictive and people should have more options. The NHS is so overloaded, it would make sense to make some changes to take the burden away from GPs.
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Hi Mary G, how are you? It's been a while since I've been here. I think you're right it will open things up. Once more items are pharmacy the drug companies may start licensing them here as they will have more opportunity for selling them and then we will have more of the choices of other countries. It's a bit of a double edged sword in the UK. It's great that prescriptions are usually cheaper and some people can't afford to buy some things that are already available over the counter, but it seriously limits what is available and puts more of a burden in GPs. I do think it will change, the question is how quickly and then how long for pharma companies to get licences and pipeline going. Keeping my fingers crossed its sooner rather than later
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Update ladies.
I managed to pop into chemists had a chat with them ordered the lenzetto in morning and collected after 5pm they will only allow 1 order so I popped into another chemist and did the same thing.they said it's difficult to get just now from suppliers.I also got some granules you mix with water to wash the vaginal outer areas with to help prevent itching and promote healing so I'll try that when I get home.ill update when I've been using the lenzetto for a decent period.xx
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Daisydot, well done, I order 3 boxes at a time so that might be an option for you. Don't forget to keep us updated on your progress, I hope you like it after all the effort you have put in! How many pumps are you using, I use 1 in the morning and 1 at night.
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Hi MaryG you could be right there the 2 chemists that did get it for me both refused to order more than one and they both said there was a shortage.Im in alicante airport just now and I sailed through security no problems whatsoever as long as you follow the rules and keep them in view in the plastic bags so they know your not hiding anything it's fine.
I've got the testosterone too again no problems.funny enough I got an email from my private consultant earlier saying he wants to see me again and he thinks it's about time we went down the testerone route I'm so pleased to get that guidance as I was planning to ask this nhs gynie to help on the 24th so im going to cancel with her and stay with mr parsons now.ive also arranged a private transvaginal scan for the 17th i want completely checked out now and finally feel im getting there.i hope everyine eill keep persisting with these medical people because with us all helping and advising each other about our experiences we can keep pushing and pushing till we get results one way or another.thanks so much again MaryG you've been a great help xx
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I havent been on the site for a while but wanted to say what great information.......
It is frustrating how there is no consistency, of course costs and guidelines are at play.
I too take Utrogestan vaginally and recently at an appointment at the menopause clinic the doctor was horrified!
I did explain that i was consulting with a private doctor but and had a regular bleed.
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Now that the holiday season is getting underway and in view of some of the recent posts on here, I thought I revive this thread again.
Many of us on here, myself included, are on private prescriptions and are forking out £8.00 a throw on Oestrogel and I thought this might be of interest to those who would like to save money.
You can buy Oestrogel over the counter and without a prescription in Spanish pharmacies and it costs about €4.00 per 80 gram tube. It is exactly the same as the UK gel but it is called Oestraclin and it comes in a tube in a red and white box. It is not a pump mechanism, it is like an old fashioned toothpaste tube with a slide and you simply squirt the gel onto the slide. One entire slide = two pumps and half a slide = one pump. All pharmacies usually have at least one tube in stock but you can order several tubes and it can usually be delivered to the pharmacy the next day for you to collect.
You can also buy boxes of Utrogestan (both 100 mg and 200 mg) over the counter and that also costs about €4.00 for a box of 30 capsules.
You can also buy other HRT products OTC like Angeliq (about €23.00) and Livial (Tibolone) but I'm afraid I can't give you all the prices and I don't have a list of all the different brands available but I can find out if anyone is interested.
I am not encouraging people to self medicate, this is simply a way of saving money if are on private prescriptions and you happen to be going to Spain on holiday.
Something to bear in mind next time you are planning a holiday!
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Thanks for these posts. I'm a fit 72 year old, but in agony from sitting down. We are emigrating to Spain next week so if any of you know the names of combination patches I can buy there, I would be SO grateful.
Thanks Yvonnepi xx
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Hi Yvonnepi
I live in Spain & I am on Evopad patches which are the same as Evorel in the UK. I don't need progesterone as I have had a hysterectomy but I am sure they must do them together.
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Thanks for these posts. I'm a fit 72 year old, but in agony from sitting down. We are emigrating to Spain next week so if any of you know the names of combination patches I can buy there, I would be SO grateful.
Thanks Yvonnepi xx
Yvonnepi
:welcomemm:
Sorry to hear you are suffering but I agree with Stellajane. Go to your doc in UK before you emigrate and get a prescription for Vagifem and also look at the thread "Burning Club" in the Private Lives section, and any posts by Maryjane or recent ones also by Dancinggirl about this ( check for thread titles that are about this topic if you can) - there is a lot of info about moisturisers and creams etc that can be used as well as Vagifem.
It really is a very bad idea just to go and try to buy and self-medicate with full HRT gel or patches without medical approval and especially at your age. This most definitely needs to be done through a specialist doc and you may well not be advised to start full HRT at your age as there can be risks if you are a long time since menopause, and especially if you have factors that can increase risk of cardio-vascular or heart disease or stroke.
I hope you manage to get some relief but time is of the essence before you go! Hope the move goes well and let us know how you get on!
Hurdity x
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Due to supply problems with Femseven, I was asked to find out if it is available in Gibraltar and add my findings to this thread. Unfortunately Femseven conti is not available there either but they do have supplies of Femseven sequi @ 50mcg and 75mcg and it costs £13.00.
They also have a good supply of Oestrogel - the real thing in the blue container not Oestradose - and it costs £7.72 (roughly €8.65) so slightly cheaper than the Spanish equivalent Oestraclin (due to the tanking pound) which is currently €9.76. I don't know how much it costs on private prescription in the UK but I think I paid about £9.00 however, that was a long time ago.
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This thread isn't about Femseven though so not quite sure why you've posted the info here....! However I don't think Femseven combi patch (ie Femseven sequi or conti) is available in 75 mcg version - just the Femseven oestrogen patches - at least not in UK. If it is then that's a new one!
Re the Oestrogel - Oestrodose and Oestrogel are exactly the same - I wrote the the manufacturer.
I don't think women are going to travel to Gibraltar to buy their HRT though.....
Hurdity x
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Hi MaryG,
what's the difference with "Oestrogel - the real thing in the blue container not Oestradose".
I have noticed that my packaging is different if I get a prescription from GP as opposed to what 'Private' doc sends.
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There is no difference except in name and packaging.
Do read this thread https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,40586.msg664219.html#msg664219 but it goes off on various tangents but the gist remains the same. I wrote to the manufacturers and that is what they said.
Hurdity x
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lifeatfifty, I have never used Oestrodose so I'm not in a position to judge. There are several members who have said that Oestrodose is not as good as Oestrogel so they are the best people to speak to.
This isn't gospel but I think Gypsyroselee might have had issues with Oestrodose so it might be worth looking at some of her posts on the subject and/or sending her a PM.
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Just so people know who might be interested I've found it extremely easy to buy OTC in both Spain and Gran Canaria. I was prescribed Utrogestan and estrogel on NHS but have a problem with the inactive ingredients (I'm allergic/intolerant to lots of stuff) My gp would have given me Evamist but it's only available in USA and no UK equivalent. However I discovered Lenzetto which is the same. Pharmacist in GC had never heard of it - it's made in Italy - but was able to order it by the next day. I could easily have got Utrogestan but I don't get on with the sunflower oil in it - it used to be made with peanut oil which I'm fine with (they changed it cos so many people allergic to peanuts) However I was able to by Progeffik which is peanut and soy. Since then I've got that in Spain as well. I've also had no probs with ordering quantity - you just have to allow time for them to get it in. If they had these particular products on NHS I could get them free so it's not a case of self medicating just needing different inactive ingredients. I was so allergic to estrogel I was literally sneezing every couple of minutes and had to stop using it whereupon half my hair fell out so this is really important for me. Very useful thread.
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aurora, that's great news! I'm glad the Lenzetto is working well for you and I hope the Progeffik goes well too and without any allergic reaction.
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Thanks Mary G :)
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Bounced for new Member
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For Mary G. Are you still buying HRT in Spain?
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I don't think Mary G logs on much these days Charliegirl.
I would PM her so she is aware.
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Done it ;-)
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I'm getting confused :-\ - sorry.
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Many thanks CLKD.
Charliegirl@, sorry for the delay in replying but I rarely post on here now. I still buy HRT in Spain!
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Hi MaryG lovely to hear from you xx
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>wave<
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Bounced for Mamachunk thread.
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Bounced in view of HRT shortages in the UK.
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Bounced in view of HRT shortages in the UK.
Fabulous timing MaryG, I'm planning a trip to Spain in late November.
Pharmacy on my to do list.
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KiltedCupid, I hope you can buy what you need! There are no shortages in Spain as far as I'm aware and patches are readily available as well as Oestrogel and oral forms of HRT. Somebody posting on another thread said they managed to buy Estradot the other day - I hadn't realised it was available here.
Good luck and enjoy your holiday!
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Many thanks, I'm sure I'll rustle up what I need!
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hi all,
I bought estrodot 50mcg patch in Spain , no probs at all @20 euros per box , also got utrogestan 100mg vaginal/ oral caps @6 euros , all without prescription. I took the boxes with to the pharmacy , they were very helpful, thank goodness!
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For collysully.
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Thank you, Mary G!
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Thanks for this thread Mary :)
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Bounced for new Member
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For AnnieK.
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Thank you Maryg
It’s good to know any hrt shortages in Spain are all sorted now. I was having a little panic 😊
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AnnieK, you asked me about buying Renova in Spain on another thread somewhere, can't remember where.
I'm afraid it is only available online now which is probably better for you!
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mary G, not online in the Uk I'm afraid :-\
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Due to shortages in the UK, I thought this thread might be helpful.
I have recently bought Estradot patches, Oestrogel, Utrogestan, Progeffik, Climodien, Progynova, Vagifem and Ovestin without any problems.
HRT also seems to be readily available in Portugal.
I could have bought or ordered UK branded HRT in Gibraltar but I was only there for a day.
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Thanks for that Mary G, if only we could get evorel!x
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Thanks for that Mary G, if only we could get evorel!x
I bought a few boxes Evorel in Gibraltar a few weeks ago. Femseven is also available but it has to be ordered in advance. Plenty of Estrogel available too so definitely worth the trip if you are within easy reach of Gibraltar. Make sure you buy it in a pharmacy in Main Street, the pharmacy in Morrisons insist on a prescription.
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Ooh Thanks for that, really useful to know. I’m only an hour away from Gibraltar but not going (that I know of) until June. Will definitely stock up xx
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Great news as I am off to Portugal in a few weeks so will stock up with Sandrena if they have it!
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In Italy too I had no problems getting estrogel and utro OTC (but not recently as mainly I'm in the UK). I don't know whether the shortages have affected supplies on the "continent".
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Hi
Does anybody know if you can buy testosterone gel OTC in Spain? I'm heading to Los Alcazares, near Murcia for a holiday end of May and would really like to be able to get hold of some as my GP/HRT nurse here are struggling to get a prescription for me.
Hayley :-*
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Hi
Does anybody know if you can buy testosterone gel OTC in Spain? I'm heading to Los Alcazares, near Murcia for a holiday end of May and would really like to be able to get hold of some as my GP/HRT nurse here are struggling to get a prescription for me.
Hayley :-*
Sorry, I've only just seem this post!
I believe a member has managed to get testosterone OTC in Spain. I think it was a sachet.
Definitely worth a try.
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I have just found out that Femseven Conti is available OTC in Portugal. It's called Femsete and the progesterone dose is slightly higher than the UK version but I understand it is made by the same pharmaceutical company.
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I recently posted starting a new thread - my apologies I should have seen this - my post was asking if testosterone was available OTC in Greece/Greek islands? I know it’s a long shot but was wondering if anyone knew?
I’ve been reading recently that it’s becoming increasingly difficult to buy HRT OTC in Europe without a prescription now although obvs I try not to believe *everything* I read 😜
Anyway not expecting a huge response but thought I’d try here instead. Hope that’s ok Mary G / everyone?
Thanks in advance.🤞🏻
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Hi,
I found this forum last night & found it very interesting. I wondered if anyone, probably Mary G, would be able to answer my query? I’m having terrible trouble getting hold of my Sandrena 0.5mg Estradiol gel sachets in the UK over the last few months because of shortages but we are on holiday in Spain next week. Is Sandrena, Estradiol a product I can pick up in pharmacies over there?
Many thanks 🙏
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NattyJ, I don't think Sandrena is available in Spain but there are ample supplies of Oestraclin which is the same as Oestrogel. Depending on where you will be in Spain, you could try to buy it in Gibraltar - they have UK branded products which you can also buy over the counter in Main Street but not Morrisons pharmacy.
I hope that helps.
Louise2010, sorry, I have only just seen your post but I'm afraid I can't help re Greece but perhaps others can.