Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Sammas on April 20, 2016, 06:44:03 AM
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Hi Ladies
Wondered how you cope with headaches? I have had them for years - generally if I get too hot but increasingly hormone related Do certain foods help eleviate and yoga or pilates? I take Syndol as itsrhe only thing that works and now have to get them from abroad as the UK ones no longer contIn the magic ingredient The side effect is feeling a bit spaced
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Hi Sammas
Sorry to hear about your headaches and migraines - I get them too - in fact have one at the moment that came on yesterday morning when I woke and won't completely shift. All sorts of things seem to trigger mine and I can't seem to get to the bottom of it.
Some people get headaches/migraines from certain foods/drinks eg cheese, chocolate, caffeine, alcohol - so you may well have a particular trigger although I expect you would know this by now? I think tolerances can change as we get older too and there is definitely a hormonal link.
Many women get pre-menstrual headaches - which is either due to the sudden drop in oestrogen, or the progesterone dip as it leaves the system - both happen before a period. These get worse for many women during peri-menopause and even before when PMS symptoms worsen.
Re exercise - I find that doing too intensive floor/abs exercises gives me neck pain and triggers a headache - but Pilates is pretty gentle. I think this is what caused my present one because I restarted exercise classes on Monday night (an intensive one - cardio/toning) and woke on Tues with stiff neck and headache. I also found that I was getting a lot of aches and pains after exercise generally - and started testosterone as part of my HRT and this seems to have worked for the most part - although I was surprised at getting the headache again.
I tend only to take paracetamol or Ibuprofen ( and that makes me feel nauseous) because I'm scared of all the other stronger meds! My daughter suggested co-codamol but haven't ventured to buy any yet!
I don't cope especially well with mine - I just feel like a limp rag for 3 days and don't do much. On the days I have to work I dose myself with paracetamol and feel terrible afterwards like yesterday!
Sorry that sounds a bit moany and probably not much help but just to say I really sympathise because they are debilitating (even if they're not the pounding head, lying in a darkened room type) and I'm certainly fed up with mine!
Hurdity x
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Hi Sammas - I get two types of headache: I have always suffered with migraine where it starts with patchy vision for about 10-15 minutes followed by black and white swirly patterns around the edges of my vision for about 10-15 mins and then WHAM! The headache - I take migrelieve if I am in time but in any event I need to get home and sleep and it usually passes after a few hours.
The OTHER type of headache I have been getting (and I now put this down to meno) is usually behind one of the eyes and a really debilitating pain and these last for 2-3 days despite taking extra strong painkillers; admittedly I have not consulted the doctor about these ones. Luckily I can work from home although using a laptop which doesn't help - I always feel washed out with the latter type for a couple of days after they have lifted whereas with a migraine by the next day I am ok. Sorry that hasn't helped you an awful lot !
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Sammas, it took me a long time to work out why I suddenly started getting silent migraines (migraine aura without headache) but I got there in the end.
Basically, synthetic progesterone and low oestrogen are the cause in my case. During my reproductive years, I never had migraines (despite being on the pill for years) but as soon as my hormone levels starting to drop, the migraines started. When the first migraine struck, I had a Mirena coil for contraception purposes and while I was still having periods, they always came a few days before the period started and when my oestrogen was low. Once the periods stopped, they were random. I consulted migraine specialist Professor MacGregor and hormone specialist Professor John Studd and apparently while I was reproductive, my own hormones overrode the synthetic ones hence the absence of migraines but once my hormone levels dropped, the synthetic ones become dominant and caused the migraines. Synthetic progesterone changes the way the brain receptors work.
Therefore, I have to keep my oestrogen levels fairly high, avoid synthetic progesterone completely and seriously limit the amount of Utrogestan (micronised progesterone) that I take and not allow it to become dominant.
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Thanks ladies for shsring your experiences I phoned the migraine association today who suggested taking magnesiym citrate. (I had just started taking mag oxide) when I went to buy it my health foid shop was having free taster sessions of cranial socral therapy which was good A bit like reiki x
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Sammas, I forgot to mention that I was told to take magnesium, vitamin B complex and aspirin everyday. Professor MacGregor suggested 300mg aspirin during the Utrogestan phase. As as added bonus, since starting magnesium everyday a few years ago, my digestive system has improved enormously.
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That's useful to know a Mary g I take b vits but not asprin
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I have that one sided headache regulary too. I call it a migraine but I think really they call it a tension headache. Ive been having them most of my adult life, never pinpointed the cause, although stress is a big factor. Its ALWAYS behind my right eye, like a dagger stabbing me, with extreme light sensitivity. They last a minimum of 24 hrs, sometimes 36.
A few years ago I discovered thet if I have a strong coffee when it first begins that can stop it (not always ). Been to the GP many times tried all sorts of painkillers. The only thing that sometimes helps is co codamol, but make me feel sick. Ho hum...
Good luck!
J x
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Bloody menopause! Eye test could be a good idea as have had a twitchy right eye on and off for weeks. If we explained our symptoms to people who didnt understand I think they would think we are imagining things! X
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I've been getting a lot of migraines again since hitting peri. Was also reading yesterday some American migraine research site about how they now think that there are such things as mixed migraine/ tension headaches that have the symptoms of both and I think that rings true for me - I get migraine with aura but I then seen to have a few days afterwards with a combination of the nauseous headache but it is two sided by then and in my neck and shoulders too. Whatever they are , they suck and I'm getting fed up as nothing shifts them except sleeping then off as best I can.
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That's what I hate the most, Sparkle. The not being able to plan ahead and just enjoy life. I've had one on and off all week and it kicked off big style again this morning - I was hoping to go to cinema later but now even the smell of my decaff is making me heave and I feel like the world is tiny and I am huge.i can't seem to identify any triggers other than just being oerimenopausal. Sometimes it's before a period, sometimes at ovulating other times it's during or after one. I guess it's just the fluctuating hormones but I'm fed up and it just adds to my overall anxiety. Going to check out magnesium as it's interesting that several folk have been told to supplement.
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I had terrible tummy pains as a child which my GP put down to sore throats even though I never had a sore throat. Junior was the same. Both of us now suffer with migraine so guess it was that all along. I've never found anything that works. Was given Imigran injection when it first came out and it just made me worse as have most other stuff, do I just muddle on. The best thing as I the I've said was some physio on my dodgy neck so may have to go back for more.
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I get terrible aching legs that I have just assumed were age and my fibromylagia but they are worse when I have a migraine. I also get not quite vertigo .. It's more me that's moving inside than the world spinning. Today I've felt like I am on stilts. I think that GPs just think about the headaches and yes, they can be debilitating , but personally I've found the weird auras and numbness much more difficult to handle.
Will watch that later as out now. Thank you.
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Me too Coldethyl, I had a horrible migraine that then extended down the back of my neck, shoulders and upper back. The scariest bit was when all my muscles went into spasm all over my body and I couldn't keep still, I just twitched violently. I think it was a reaction to the pain. Bloody awful things - I hate the fact that you lose days at a time with them.
S x
Sparkle - have you had this checked out? Twitching violently is not normal and I would have thought a doc visit would be in order - unless it's normal for you. Sounds horrible and very scary to me.
I've made a doc appt for my headaches but I don't hold out much hope for any ideas. Just want to make sure there is nothing wrong. Coldethyl like you I can't seem to pin down a trigger.
I looked up about magnesium citrate as a medication (rather than a dietary supplement as I don't need this as my diet is good and I won't be deficient in it) - but didn't like the sound of it. It is mainly used as a laxative and works by drawing water into the bowel from what I read very briefly - so don't like the idea of this at all!! Don't want to get more dehydrated!
Hurdity x
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It's what sent me running to the GP in December Hurdity as an emergency! It was very frightening - to be honest I thought I was on the verge of a stroke. It's not happened since thank goodness, in fact the migraines have calmed down, the last one being over Christmas which was a bit unfortunate! The last two periods I've had a headache but not what I would call a full blown migraine, sort of back to what I've always had pre-menstrually although annoyingly it seems to start up again at the end of a period now, not just the build-up to it. Thank you! Do let us know how you get on at the GP, it will be interesting to hear what he/she says.
S x
Interesting that you say that about them coming back at end of period too now, as that is what I am finding as well. I think also that the stress of worrying about whether ill have a migraine is adding to them and exacerbating the neck tension that seems to be feeding them. I was talking to hubby about them and he said I was as bad during pregnancy and when junior was about 18 months old when my periods got more regular again( I had fertility treatment ) - then I was admitted to hospital with suspected brain haemorrhage but it was just a really bad migraine!!! Once they start I find them hard to shake off and they are so draining. I watched that clip and the interviewer read out a quotation from a caller that had one every day since nov 2014!! X
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Thanks for the intetesting comments My health food shop mentioned having 30ml nano magnesium water each fay A .months supply is above £50 though
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Hi all
re: the below info
I read all this with great interest as I have been suffering with headaches since Jan when my peri symptoms skyrocketed to the MAX! I have basically had a headache since then, always there, and sometimes its much worse. Was on evorel sequi, that didn't suit me, tried femoston 1/10 and when on the progesterone bit I was really poorly - off sick from work poorly and in bed all day and night. I am about to start oestrogel and utogestran on Friday and praying it works.
has anyone had any experience of migraine/headache improvement from this type of progesterone? (is it synthetic?)
I'll be on 2 pumps of gel per day and 200mg for 12 days of utogestran.
I do have a head mri booked for tomorrow due to the headaches.
thanks ladies. xxx
Re: headaches&migraine s
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2016, 06:27:39 PM »
ReplyQuote
Sammas, it took me a long time to work out why I suddenly started getting silent migraines (migraine aura without headache) but I got there in the end.
Basically, synthetic progesterone and low oestrogen are the cause in my case. During my reproductive years, I never had migraines (despite being on the pill for years) but as soon as my hormone levels starting to drop, the migraines started. When the first migraine struck, I had a Mirena coil for contraception purposes and while I was still having periods, they always came a few days before the period started and when my oestrogen was low. Once the periods stopped, they were random. I consulted migraine specialist Professor MacGregor and hormone specialist Professor John Studd and apparently while I was reproductive, my own hormones overrode the synthetic ones hence the absence of migraines but once my hormone levels dropped, the synthetic ones become dominant and caused the migraines. Synthetic progesterone changes the way the brain receptors work.
Therefore, I have to keep my oestrogen levels fairly high, avoid synthetic progesterone completely and seriously limit the amount of Utrogestan (micronised progesterone) that I take and not allow it to become dominant.
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Nellendra, that is my post that you quoted!
Oestrogel/Utrogestan (micronised NOT synthetic progesterone) is the best option if you suffer with migraines and this is the regime I use. I use 2 pumps of Oestrogel everyday, a small bead of testosterone everyday and I use only 7 x 100mg (vaginally) every 5 weeks. This regime works very well for me and better than anything else I have tried by a very long way.
I would strongly urge you not to use Utrogestan orally unless you absolutely cannot avoid it because it does mean more side effects. Utrogestan is far more effective when used vaginally and you should get very good clearance/thinning - make sure you place the capsule next to the cervix. If you take it orally, 50% can get lost in your digestive system so it is not as effective.
I would not be able to take anything like the amount of Utrogestan that you have been prescribed and if I did, I would have guaranteed migraines. I was prescribed 100mg Utrogestan for 7 days each month but even that was too much so now I stretch the cycle to 5 weeks. I do have regular scans to check the womb lining and even though I haven't taken anything like as much Utrogestan as I should, my lining is a regularly 2mm post bleed.
If it would help, you might want to tell you doctor about my case and how I have to seriously limit the amount of Utrogestan I take because it causes migraines in high doses. You could also mention the point about using it vaginally because it works better and you can take a lower dose and get the same result.
If you are a migraine sufferer, you should be able to take the lower dose of Utrogestan and have regular scans on the NHS.
One other thought, I would try to have a good long run on the Oestrogel only to get the feelgood factor back and to see how your migraines improve. That way, you will know much impact the Utrogestan has on your migraines.
Good luck and please come back if you have more questions.
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Hi Mary
That was a very interesting post. I use the gel and utrogestan tablets. I have just changed to using the tablets vaginally. I felt very sick and headachy(I assume this is the utrogestan) My doctor told me to take utrogestan for 12 to 14 days of the month. It's trial and error really. I am currently using just under 2 pumps of gel. I still feel slightly wired inside. I'm wondering if it's enough estriogel? When it's the days of not taking the utrogestan do you use exactly the same amount of gel? My doctor isn't too helpful really. I've changed from evorel patches to the gel 7 weeks ago. I don't think the patches did much x
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Michelle46, if you feel wired, try splitting the Oestrogel dose to 1 pump every 12 hours. This also helps to keep your oestrogen levels stable.
Some women increase their gel dose to 3 pumps while on the Utrogestan phase so that might help but I don't bother because I take so little Utrogestan, I doubt it would make much difference.
It might take you a while to find the right dose of each product but keep persevering, you will get there in the end. Do you feel better overall since switching to the gel? It sounds like you had the same problem as me with the patches.
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Yes I'm sure there is an improvement. The patches didn't do much really. When I upped to a bigger patch it slightly started lifting on the corners. I've just got to get the balance right now. Do you use the gel 12 hours apart? X
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Yes, I use 1 pump at night on my upper, outer arms and shoulders and the other 12 hours later on my inner thighs which I have found helps the slight VA/dryness problem I had - this is still in the experimental stage but so far, it is working very well.
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It's what sent me running to the GP in December Hurdity as an emergency! It was very frightening - to be honest I thought I was on the verge of a stroke. It's not happened since thank goodness, in fact the migraines have calmed down, the last one being over Christmas which was a bit unfortunate! The last two periods I've had a headache but not what I would call a full blown migraine, sort of back to what I've always had pre-menstrually although annoyingly it seems to start up again at the end of a period now, not just the build-up to it. Thank you! Do let us know how you get on at the GP, it will be interesting to hear what he/she says.
S x
As this thread has been revived I see I didn't respond to you sparkle!
In fact my GP just said - my headaches sound like migraines and as I've been having them for some time then I don't need to worry. It's the first time I've had a migraine diagnosis - and I've been getting them for 10 years or more - but have mentioned headaches in the past to doctors who have just said they are common around menopause and post-menopause - and variously have been told they have been caused by low oestrogen or low testosterone - since I'm on HRT and also take testosterone I have no idea why I get them and the doctors aren't much help either. Fortunately the actual headache part is not very severe - just persistent and it's the other symptoms that interfere with normal life to some extent as the headaches usually last for around 3 days when I get them.
Never had any tests suggested....
So all in all no change - but probably nothing to worry about!
Hurdity x
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morning all - I have one of these horrible headaches again - behind my left eye; had it since yesterday morning; been taking 400mg Ibruprofen but it just won't shift - having to work and use laptop so obviously that isn't helping - does anyone take anything different?
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I found the best thing was co-codamol 30/500, dissolvable. Chemist only sells 8/500 so 30/500 prescription only. But you normally get 100 so worth it.