Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: MIS71MUM on April 19, 2016, 01:36:42 PM
-
Hi Ladies
I seem to be having a bit of a rough time of late. Currently on 20 mg of duloxetine and it has helped me sleep and possibly kept some anxiety at bay. I was due for a resection of fibroids, ablation and a hysteroscopy this week but have cancelled due to a cold that I have. Possibly for the best, because my mood is all over the place right now.
I seem to be constantly looking for a way to get better and seem to micro manage myself to see how I am and it's getting me down. Having a bad day again today and can't seem to see the wood for the trees. I suppose it ruminating or overthinking and I feel like I am becoming obsessed with getting better which is doing me no favours.
I started oestrogel yesterday and now I'm convincing myself that it'll make me worse, despite actually having a good day yesterday. I do feel a bit foggy and groggy today but suppose that's to be expected.
I am due to get my oestrogel and progesterone results tomorrow, so it should indicate whether I am low or not in either of these.
I just feel that i'm living my life in my head all the time instead of the real world.
I have two beautiful daughters at home and even when I am with them, I'm assessing how I am and what I can do to get better....then I feel guilty for wasting precious moments with them - ooops now I'm crying too.
I think I may ask my doctor to increase my AD's as well as continue with HRT.
I'm beginning to wonder whether I am depressed and I am imagining all the other symptoms.
I'm 44 - Have had 2 natural periods since August, having hot sweats, digestion issues and internal shakes.
Feeling a bit lost at the moment.
-
Hi Mis71, can't offer any comforting words but a cyber hug to you xx
It's awful when you can't see the woods for the trees - I know how you feel. Is the sun shining where you are? Maybe 10 mins in the lovely, sunny fresh air will help? I'm off to do that right now, hope you feel better soon.
Poppi x
-
Mis71mum, I could have written your post 2 years ago. I was so desparate to find whats going on with me that my thoughts overwhelmed everything I did! Really everything - from morning to night, and during! At the time I was on 20mg citalopram which obviously wasn't doing much. I was trembling, disoriented, foggy, scared, anxious, nauseaus, sweating and even so, menopause didn't occur to me as a pissible cause! My periods have shortened but still regular.
Long story short, when blood tests showed perimeno and low estrogen, I stared Femoston and gradually, very gradually begin to feel better!! It took full 4 months for me to be able to confess that the worst was over! I do have blips here and there but am grateful for the better days!! Hang on, there is solution, and light in the tunnel!! Big big hug from me, I know it is hard to believe it now but I am sure you will find the best therapy!!
BTW, I am 45, too.
Milamam
-
Hi Mis71mum
You poor thing - you are really tying yourself in knots - I can really understand this, so easily done especially as one can get so many conflicting bits of advice and info. Experimenting without professional advice is really not a good idea.
Milamam has done an excellent post to you. She was a victim of GPs giving out ADs/SRRIs as a first treatment without considering menopause as a cause. However, if anxiety is controlling you, and I think it is, expecting HRT alone to get this under control is really not realistic - especially as you keep chopping and changing stuff.
It sounds to me as though the Duloxetine is either not working now or perhaps a higher dose is needed - check this with your GP as you need something to get you through this phase.
A multi prong approach is needed. Start fresh, give yourself a good routine and stick to it; regular meals and exercise with relaxation built in - at least 3 sessions of relaxation each day and I would recommend 'Mindfulness'. It's spring and good long walks in the fresh air can do wonders. Try to plan things you love to do.
Lets get things into perspective here:
You are young and still peri meno? If you are low on oestrogen you probably do need HRT. I know you are due to have an ablation, have fibroids done etc. so starting the HRT again may not be the best way to go right now as this may make things worse. I would talk to your GP about the ADs/SRRIs first to get the anxiety under control, get the fibroid etc sorted and when you are feeling stronger you can then start fresh with the HRT but use it in the way your gynae/doctor has recommended and keep taking the AD/SRRI alongside until you feel balanced.
Routine can be the key - chaos feeds anxiety. Do be patient as there are no quick fixes. BE KIND TO YOURSELF :hug:
I do hope this helps. Dg x
-
Yes, yes. I have tried to micromanage, and that didn't work. So I tried accepting and riding it out, and that has gone better, but I'm missing out on life. Now I'm trying to get back into life as normal and I feel lost. The estrogen should help. Give it time.
-
It's in your head so difficult to alter how you are feeling. I remember checking myself from head to toe before I went into a shop to see how anxious I was ……… it's OK to check you know, maybe have a list in your head and work from the toes upwards? Decide which part of you is the worst and check every hour? That way the rest of the hour is yours!
It will pass!
-
Thanks for all your replies, it really does mean a lot.
I'm really not strong enough for the operation yet, you're right. So am due back to see my GP on Thursday so will request that I increase my AD's to 30mg. Some days, I am okay, I can focus, concentrate and enjoy things and think I'm on the mend but then other days, the slightest thing can set me off and I will be trying to work out why and feeding my anxiety.
I'm back at work, so my life is getting there, but I think I need the extra help to get over the line. It's almost like I have my life back but not my head...
I think Milaman's post about being so desperate to find out what's going on, I have allowed it to overwhelm me.
I know HRT takes 3 months to work so by increasing my AD, it should allow me some resting time...before I make an informed decision on my future and HRT.
I think because I felt fine when I had 2 natural periods in January/February this year, my only 2 since September I think, I was hoping that if my cycle restarted, I may not need to increase AD's, so by taking HRT then I'd get a period if that makes sense...and i'd be well again.
I will post back tomorrow with my oestrogen and progesterone levels, is that's okay....as it would be good to get some advice as to whether they are normal...whatever normal is in peri!
-
Sounds good Mis71mum - if you need us to take you step by step to get through this - then so be it. Sometimes its just about getting over that wall - you've hit that wall but I think you have already started climbing as you are seeking the right help and I believe taking the right road. Dg x
-
Thank you again for taking time out to reply.
Today hasn't been great but I've held it together. Now I've stood back from it all, I've realised that today's spiral all started from a hot flush and being irritable this morning.
I suppose I will have to give myself a stern talking to when they happen and get used to them. Hopefully tomorrow, I won't fall into the same trap.
-
Or relax and go with it? These aren't things that 1 can halt ……… even though flushes etc. are 'natural' knowing that often isn't a lot of help! ::)
-
Hello All
Here are my test results.....not sure what these mean can I have someone to explain please?
Oestrogen - 126 pmol
Progesterone - 1.9
Are these good or bad? I know these can change etc.
Thank you
-
My interpretation is just that you are low on oestrogen, however, there are two types of reading and I'm not sure which one this is - Hurdity will know. Were you on HRT when this blood test was done or how long were you off HRT when this was taken? If you were on Oestrogen what dosage were you using?
DG x
-
Hi DG
I had taken Oestrogel 1 pump from 10/3 to 29/3 then stopped because of operation coming up. Blood tests was 14th April. Also had finished 7 days of Utrogestan a few days before blood test.
Thanks
-
OK that makes more sense. I would have thought your oestrogen levels would have been about 126 on that amount of oestrogen. 126 is low but not drastic at this stage - however you will need HRT if you are getting bad flushes and night sweats but only when you have sorted the fibroids etc.
My thoughts: I think your focus right now is to simply get the ADs at a level that make you feel less anxious - then get your fibroids etc done. Once this is done you can then start again with HRT with a clean slate and start low and build up over 3-6 months till you find a level that keeps the flushes etc under control and you are feeling more stable. If you then want to start reducing the ADs you could try but very, very gradually. You may well be someone that needs both ADs and HRT to keep things balanced. This may all sound like a big hill to climb but I am great believer in taking things one day at a time. I don't expect to feel good everyday - I just want more good days than dodgy days.
DG x
-
Mis71Mum - I have been there too, much better now with the increase in AD's, this worked for me. Also still researching at all times for ways to improve and ways to help DH feel better too. We are also on an Alkaline diet now, I have never eaten so much green stuff in my life.. it may be a good time for me just now but I do feel an awful lot better than I have for sometime. I have a list of healthy cook books a mile long on my wish list, just weedling them down to something more sensible. Must say I never believed all this stuff about healthy diet but I am starting to now. Not saying it will work for you, or indeed that you do not already have a healthy diet, just sharing my own experience. Hope you feel better soon.
-
Hi Mis71Mum,
If your bloods were taken on day 3-5 of cycle then this level of Estrogen the is not that high. In my view it is rather on the low side. You have been 14 or so days without external hormones, so this to me will indicate that you probably need external estrogen to feel better.
I cannot comment on the progesterone level, I have to check up the reference ranges. Did they give you reference ranges?
Milamam
-
Hi again,
Just checked some websites and if bloods were taken in the folicular phase, reference ranges for prog are 0.5 - 2.3 nmol/l. So if this is your measurement unit, then prog levels seem normal.
-
Hi Ladies
I am off to see my counsellor shortly and I will speak to him about my anxiety and hormones. Also I have got an appointment with my GP tomorrow too to discuss the results properly.
I don't have a normal cycle at the moment, just had two periods 28 days apart in Jan and Feb, then nothing since. I took the oestrogel for the days mentioned, but then had to Utrogestan alone for 7 days without oestrogel to induce a bleed in readiness for my operation.
Is there a normal reading for your age group...as I am 44?
Or are they just in general?
-
Reference ranges are:
FSH
Follicular 3.5-12.5
Ovulatory 4.7-21.5
Luteal 1.7-7.7
Post menopause 26.0-135.0
Oestradiol
Follicular 46-607
Ovulatory 315-1828
Luteal 161-774
Post menopause <200
Progesterone
Follicular 0.6-4.7
Luteal 5.3-86.0
Mid-luteal Peak >30.0
Post menopause 0.3-2.5
Hope that helps!
-
Let us know how you get on!
-
I went to see my counsellor....had quite a good day up until then, was telling about him about my weekend and having a panick about my impending operation....felt a surge of something, then felt hot, panicky, etc. Then all my thoughts about never getting well, i'll always be like this, these are old thoughts btw, came flooding back. So are these hot flushes which I am confusing with panick attacks. Thing is, since the 7th April 2016, I have had about 5 funny turns, 4 of them have been at the same time. By hot sweats always come in the morning too.
Now feeling quite despondent and down as it reminds me of how I felt before and fearing I am having a relapse,
-
Sorry to hear about this Mis71Mum - I can't quite remember all your story .... you're having an op soon aren't you? Hopefully afterwards you will be able to restart HRT if you are able to and then you should feel much much better!
re the ref ranges - in UK they are usually pmol/l . They seem to vary between labs as mentioned here:
http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=570818627
For example that post-menopausal reading from dangermouse's ref range would be very high - some women with that may not get symptoms! Mine was not much above that on 50 mcg patch - so I would agree that 129 is pretty low! There isn't a standard reading for a particular age and if you are peri-menopausal of course it will vary anyway depending on when in your cycle it was taken - if you are having one. Docs normally go on symptoms and aim for at least the minimum dose to reduce/eliminate hot flushes and sweats, and hopefully also lift mood at the same time.
Progesterone level is not important - except if you are fertile and trying to conceive. That low level shows you are not ovulating at the moment or not recently in this cycle - but not to say you won't.
Hang in there ..... :hug:
Hurdity x
-
Thanks all for the replies.
I'm wondering what to do for the best. If I did take Oestrogel at 1 pump, then I'm thinking that my own hormones may increase and again, I'm going to be all over the place. So am not sure whether to increase AD's first so I am calm enough to go for the operation, then take it from there.
-
Discuss your ADs with the Surgeon because you may need to stop them anyway before anaesthetic. That's where you should start, ask the question.
Do you keep a mood/food diary to gain an idea of how you feel? Ones own hormones can continue playing games, Oestrogel I think eases out symptoms? but it can take 3-4 months B4 one feels benefit.
Do you have another date for surgery or can you wait for a while?
-
Good morning
I am back from my GP's and feel a bit p!!!!!!! off, if that!'s okay to say. She was quite happy to increase AD's but when I spoke about the peri menopause, the doors came down. She told me that my test results were irrelevant, to her maybe, but not to me. I asked about HRT and she said that it would only control physical symptoms but have no effect on mood. To be honest, I just felt that she didn't get me at all.
Have the results and the message on them says “Low luteal phase progesterone concentration check day of cycle ovulation unlikely if collected 7 days before menstruation†. Although had taken 7 days of utrogestan.
The result from my oestradiol 126 suggests i am post menopause as range is 122-1153.
My operation is likely to be in 4 weeks time so doesn‘t give much time for a new regime to settle.
I suppose my biggest fear is that I won't fully get better until I take the HRT.....
Confused as usual :-\
-
Oh dear....
How can a doc say that hormones don't affect mood!!!
Do you know when you last had a natural period without HRT and have you had several at all recently? the ones you mentioned in Jan and Feb were without HRT? Sorry I'm a bit confused.
I thought you were coming off HRT before your operation (sorry can't remember what this is for) - because you had to, so you are bound to feel a bit low because of the lack of oestrogen, but if you can cope until after your op you should be able to re-start - and see a different doc who will discuss menopause!
If it's not necessary to come off HRT before your op then I would re-start asap?
Hurdity x
-
Hi
My last natural periods were Jan/Feb and they were without HRT. The first was extremely light, the second was very heavy.
My operation is a resection of fibroids, ablation and hysteroscopy. Started HRT for 2 weeks then stopped due to op....because I have sticky blood syndrome and surgery increased risks of clots. When I re-started it, I wasn't expecting the suggestion of the op. So then had to Utrogestan alone to bring on a bleed.
Anyway I restarted the gel today....I decided that I have come so far on 20 mg of Duloxetine but it's not without the side effects. Flatness being one of them. So I think I have less to loose by starting HRT and more to gain.
The hot flushes, irritability, indigestion and frequent weeing are present as well as the mood issues.
I think I can increase my AD's at any time, but after going to 30mg, the next increase would be 60mg, so don't want to go there at all.
-
Had to come home from work today - spent the entire morning crying at my desk.
Not sure whether to increase my AD's as well as start the gel.
Don't want to end up being off sick again as I am actually really enjoying work. But its the constant state of analysis that gets me down.
Any ideas?
-
Change your GP or speak with a local Pharmacist?
Also ring your Consultant who is doing your Surgery and discuss?
:bighug:
-
Sounds like you need to have your op asap so that you can get back on HRT and get the right dose to enable you to feel better so that you can cope. I get what you're saying that you need to be off it due to the clot risk - and I presume the specialist has said this? Do you have a date?
I am sorry I can't help with the ADs as I've never taken any.
Do look after yourself.
Hurdity x
-
Thanks for all your help ladies. It is much appreciated.
I'm going to have a think about all the suggestions and am going to go dark for a few weeks.
Will report back soon.
Take care.
Mandy