Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: Justjules on April 15, 2016, 08:07:48 AM
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Everybody seems quiet on here at the moment....maybe everybody is just fed up of moaning about how we're feeling and are just trying to cope. Well I'm going to have a moan if you don't mind as I'm getting more and more fed up now. Week 3 of Citalopram and apart from no crying, feel no different anxiety wise. Still waking with racing heart at 5:00am but did stop for a few days and I though great, but no, it's back again. Managed the half days at work in the afternoon but I am so shaky and anxious this morning I'm dreading trying to go back to work full days next week. How the hell I am going to be able to leave the house by 8:00am, goodness knows. I really can't get signed off again. I have just had breakfast, tried to put some washing in and emptied the drier and I'm shaking like mad and then feel as if my heart is all over the place. Came off the BBs to go onto Citalopram but everybody keeps saying that it won't be withdrawals from those as the dose was so low. I am seriously thinking now that there is something medically wrong and that this can't all just be anxiety.....I have been diagnosed with. Dry low vitamin D and given the mega dose tablets but on top of how I feel I am just too scared to take them. It's ridiculous. I e gone into a panic also because our nearest a&e has just been closed and the nearest is now 25 mins away at least so that is how my mind works! Just taken half a Valium but only have one left :'( last time I took one, all this shaking stopped so in a way that did confirm that it could just be anxiety. It this is ,asking too long now. I just want a few months sabbatical to get myself well but no chance. Hubby is about to lose his job I think but of course, he won't talk about it so that's extra pressure for me to stay in work.
Well that's off my chest in writing at least ladies....thanks.
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Hi JJ
What you are experiencing is horrible but it is also classic anxiety. Have you been offered cbt? It really helps. I realise it is difficult so please don't think I am over simplifying your situation but the bottom line is that anxiety symptoms won't harm you and won't lead to anything worse. It is helpful to tell yourself that and then focus on what you need to do and do it. This requires a lot of discipline and takes time to become practised in. Baby steps JJ! You will beat it!!! 😀
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Hi JJ
Couldn't just read and run, I am still here, checking into forum everyday and just reading others posts makes me feel less 'mad'. I had a stop-start thing with e-cit a few weeks ago and was encouraged to try again by some of the replies to my problem. I'm now on day 9 and feeling much better. Brain is not whirring with HA as much and even managed dog walk without thinking I would need toilet. I Split the dose and started at 5mg, have now got it up to 10mg, split am and pm. I'm still taking my BBs - 40mg propranolol am and that does stop the palpitations. Can you take both again? I did think it was the combination that gave me side effects but someone on here found me the research that showed it was only high dose BBs that interfered with e-cit.
You've got a lot on your plate at the moment, esp with OH's job problems. Subconsciously this will be having an effect on you too. Have you tried meditation or listening to soothing music? I've had a lot of success with the Headspace app for 10 min meditating, you can do the first ten days free, or there is some good music on You Tube which I find very calming. Take care.
Hugs :hug:
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Thanks ladies.
KCB, my more rationale side, when it appears briefly, tells me yes, it's all anxiety but just get frustrated because dr's know you're anxious so always put everything down to that. I have had full bloods done and all okay but have been like this since January now and have had bad anxiety over the years but this seems all so different.
BB, yes, sometimes I just 'lurk' for a few days and makes me feel better to know you're not the only one suffering. I don't think there are any BBs I can take with Cit but when I was in Cit for many years I was also on a BB so I think that's the difference this time....that's what probably controlled the shaking and rapid heart rate. I do do meditation most days and yes, have the Headspace app....I am honestly trying everything. Had CBT but too basic on NHS so pay for a private NLP therapist who is wonderful but costs me a fortune! She keeps me sane once a week! I know these things time time to pass and I feel I need more time than just re-entering the real world and just get on with day to day work and life. I even have a cleaner fortnightly now as I have zilch enthusiasm for my housework, socialising, clothes or anything. Just not me at all.
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Morning JJ
I have no personal experience but The Man was put on Citralopam a few years ago for depression.
The first few weeks were a roller coaster of side effects for him. The one that sticks in my mind is when he got 'stuck' in the garden. He was sat in a chair on the decking and found he couldn't move, neither could be shout to me to go and help him. He persevered and the side effects died down, the benefits then started to kick in and they proved to be really effective for him.
I'm not saying this to scare you, but to give you courage to carry on with the Citralopam for a while longer as if your symptoms are due to it, they may well pass.
He's been my inspiration for gritting my teeth when I started HRT in January and carrying on through a raft of side effects, which sure enough, died down over 4 weeks..
Good luck.
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Hi JJ, guess I was lucky the Setraline worked for me - but I was the same as you before it. One thing that jumped out at the there was the vit D thing, have you thought about trying the spray like Babyjane is on? I have that on my wishlist to try in the future, might make you feel better than more pills?
From what I have read here many of us have experienced anxiety for the first time, and treatment seems to be a very much individual thing, maybe you do need to give it a bit longer? I started in December and was 'okay' after that, but when my dose was increased last month improved a lot. I hope you find something that will help you soon.
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Noodle thanks. I know Citalopram is really good. Just being impatient probably and had such a rough ride after being put on Sertraline initially back in January and suffered horrendous side affects, my body doesn't know whether it's coming or going at the moment. It makes you so weary.
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Hi JJ, guess I was lucky the Setraline worked for me - but I was the same as you before it. One thing that jumped out at the there was the vit D thing, have you thought about trying the spray like Babyjane is on? I have that on my wishlist to try in the future, might make you feel better than more pills?
From what I have read here many of us have experienced anxiety for the first time, and treatment seems to be a very much individual thing, maybe you do need to give it a bit longer? I started in December and was 'okay' after that, but when my dose was increased last month improved a lot. I hope you find something that will help you soon.
Yes, SL, wondered whether to try that first so might order some as she has pm'd me the details. Don't want to Dr to be cross with me if I haven't taken the prescription as I obviously need it and am fretting about the consequences of it being low and not doing as I'm told!
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Keep saying this but no one picks up on it. Homeopathic Aconite I had palpitations laSt night as my oestrogen off since taking utrogestan and if I didn't take this I would be on all sorts. I have a homeopath so I take a 10M remedy it works! Getting on a plane tonight!
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Kate, I know you do, and I was using a homeopath for a while as you know but remedies are individual anyway surely? She gave me arsenicum the last time I saw her but I must admit, I was bad with withdrawals at the time and very low and stupidly didn't take it.
Where are you off to tonight :)
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Remedies can be individual but not always. This has been brilliant for me it's not one I would normally take and not in that strength but it does the job. It wasn't what my homeopath recommended that didnt work but been using them such a long time I thought it might work. My homeopath is always up for trying something different. We are traveling to Manchester airport over night and flying to Barcelona for a week for hubby 50th.
I just don't like to see people suffer when they don't have to. 8)
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That's useful to bear in mind though Kate. Thanks. Have a lovely holiday!
SJ, I spoke to my therapist today, who is pretty clued up on these things as well but she said I obviously need such a big dose because my levels are very low so it would take too long doing it that way to make any difference and that I just need to take it and it shouldn't be a problem.
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Nothing is 'just' or 'only' anything :poke2: there is ALWAYS a reason for how we feel.
How is your diet? Low blood sugar can cause anxiety surges particularly first thing in the morning, something to do with cortisol levels? If you get up for a bathroom visit in the night, then eat a biscuit or a Dextrose tablet B4 your go back to sleep. BBs are designed to stop the anxiety surges but if they over-take me, I have an emergency tablet to take. Maybe your GP could prescribe something for 5 mornings ………. anxiety can take over and be soul destroying.
I have taken Propranolol with all the anti-depressants prescribed since 2002. Your GP should be able to prescribe an emergency medication and Katiecurrantbun - "anxiety symptoms won't harm you and won't lead to anything worse …… " - I have at times been suicidal due to continuing anxiety …… without the emergency meds I wouldn't be here.
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Did you find out how low your level is Jj?
I too have the morning dreads. I'm ok to get to work as long as I am up at least two hours before I need to leave the house. I'm much better if I am on my own too - I hate having people around me when I feel anxious. I've been given Citalopram to try but as it is likely to cause diarrhoea and nausea for a couple of weeks I find it really difficult to start them as these are the two things which cause me to be anxious in the "what if" kind of way. Daft but true!!
Taz x
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I have suffered nausea Taz but never 'the runs' :-\.
Some ADs have had side effects within 24 hours that some would have tolerated, but due to my phobia it was impossible for me. I always began new medications over-night …….. rather than trying to deal with stuff and any side-effects! Not daft Taz ……… worrying about what might happen can start the gut reaction immediately for me :-[. Prozac - supposedly without side effects ::) - caused me to feel that I was walking on 7" heels (remember Elton John in Tommy?) and my feet felt like jelly. After 3 days I had to stop them because I knew I wouldn't be able to get out of bed as my legs would not have supported me. Add to that rages ::)
It took ages but eventually my GP found something that works.
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I've had two SSRI's before and both of them led to me suddenly becoming really dizzy and then vomiting with diarrhoea within three hours of taking it. Horrible feeling but at least I was at home. It wasn't like being sick with a bug - no stomach pain at all. I suppose it was from the brain - more like seasickness!
Taz x
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No Taz, didn't find out as haven't been back yet.
I've never had the nausea or the runs from Citalopram. We are all different I suppose.
CKLD, I'll try the dextrose. I usually have rescue remedy next to the bed ready.
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Taz that's awful :o
Ginger biscuits or Digestive can help too ……… mixed dried nuts/fruit …… anything to 'stay' the stomach!
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HI justjules,when I was researching coming off propranolol weeks ago,listed as a withdraweral symptom is anxiety,on some sites I visited I could see that even though some people who stopped taking them had no problems,others where experiencing withdrawal problems,jitters and palpitations amongst them,some for weeks after stopping.i guess it all depends on our genetic makeup and our fragile systems.the body slowly gets back into its normal rythme.
I have only managed to reduce 10mg,still take 20mg a day,been this dose for a month and I still get symptoms where my body is missing that extra 10mg at times,when stressed,after exercise ect.
The body is used to having the affects of adrenalin and cortisol blocked and must get used to dealing with it again.
I so much want to get right off my propranolol,but I can see it take me a while yet.
Hope your anxiety gradually improves for you,i do tapping with brad yates,and I do think it has helped me,also I purchased Calm Confident program from Georgia foster after I see about it in a magazine,that I think made a big difference to me,i listen to a part of it everyday,last week I went to a local tearoom 3 times by myself for a latte and cake,never done that before ever,so will continue with it.Has anybody else heard of her?.
dolly64.
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Dolly, you might be right. I was on sotalol but only a very small dose but had them for the last 20 years!! I have been going to a coffee shop on my own while I've been signed off sick and had some 'me' time and it was lovely but sadly back to work fully next week :'( will have a look at the Gorgia Foster thing. Not heard about her before. X
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Nope.
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Anxiety is a 'normal' survival reaction to stress : fight or flight response. Knowing that has never helped me though :-\
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I'm going through an 'episode'(as I like to call them) at the moment.
I have just finished reading "At Last a Life" by Paul David.
Felt really bad Monday so went to bed early with this book and read a couple of chapters.
I was dreading going to work the next day but after reading I began to feel a little better.
In the morning I went to work,had moments but remembered what I had read the night before.
It is the story of The author who had anxiety for 10years and how he got himself better.
He also has a website: www.anxietynomore.co.uk where you can buy the book but Amazon have it too.
I have ordered his 2nd book " A Life at Last and Beyond"
Reading his story has certainly made me more positive about things.
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I read that book Dyan quite a while ago.....think I need to read it again as heard a lot about it lately.
Sorry to hear you are having a bad spell. Wish there was a magic wand for this darn thing!
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A*azon have this one free today - the kindle version :
Dare: The New Way to End Anxiety and Stop Panic Attacks Fast (+Bonus Audios) Kindle Edition
by Barry McDonagh
Halfway through it already - a good read - similar to the Claire Weekes method.
Bramble
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Thanks Bramble, will have a look at that. :)
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Just joules I'll be holding your hand through cyberspace
You are stronger than you think, take it a day at a time!
I've went back to work with a more positive attitude.... Think in my head every time I'm bit anxious, three things I'm grateful for, can be as little as" I'm grateful my shoes are comfy, and I seem to get through
Btw I had helluva runs with any anti-ds I start xx
I'll be thinking of you xxxx
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Thanks Mandz! I'll be deep breathing all the way and then trying mindfulness all day. Just hope it's busy otherwise going to be a long day.....xxx
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I think its also important to understand that some of your anxiety is physical rather than psychological. Particularly the 5am adrenaline rushes which are mainly out of our psychological control as they are biochemical from, the consensus seems to be, oestrogen surges. You may also find the anxiety rises late afternoon and then you feel better by the evening, this all ties in with our natural Circadian rhythms - see the chart here https://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep_files/images/c/c9/Circadian.gif (https://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep_files/images/c/c9/Circadian.gif). I had to go on the pill to stop mine, although they are still apparent at certain times in my cycle (when oestrogen is higher) around 4/5pm when adrenaline naturally peaks. Beta blockers also worked well for me as they dampen adrenaline and cortisol, where Diazepam just sedated me and then made me feel jittery as it wore off.
You can, of course, make the physical attacks much worse by panicking and over-worrying, so any psych. tools will help enormously to rationalise your situation. However, the physical aspect is very different to true psychological panic attacks which can be 100% controlled by our thought processes, so don't feel you are doing something wrong if you still feel physically overwhelmed. Of course, understanding its our hormones may not stop them, but it does stop them spiralling out of control!
Also, as the body is being over stimulated, certain meds can make these feelings of anxiety worse, particularly anti-nausea drugs (cruel when nausea is attached as was for me!), digestive enzymes, inhaling chemicals in the home like bleach, decongestants, caffeine, alcohol (particularly at withdrawal the next day) and sugar. Prescription drugs will vary but some, including antidepressants, can cause stimulation so you may find it better to take them in the evenings if it doesn't impact on your sleep.
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Thank you Dangermouse. I am beginning to see the pattern emerging and managed to get through an awful morning again with just tackling my thoughts around how I felt, which was dreadful again like yesterday. When I realised that it passed off yesterday when I took a valium, I realised it was mainly anxiety so when it happened again earlier, although I was panicking, I coped a lot better. I think my poor system is just trying to stabilise itself after throwing different drugs at it since Christmas and stopping others and suffering withdrawals and now starting another one a couple of weeks ago.
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Can anyone explain the difference between physical and psychological anxiety :-\. It all stems from the 'flight/fight' response which goes back to our Cave Man days! Without f/f survival would be less likely. When it takes over that's when it becomes a problem.
Psychologist once asked 'what do you think about B4 panic begins' and the answer is, nowt. It happens. Instantly in the gut/belly button area. If I think about having a panic attack, I am unable to reproduce those feelings :-\. I walked out on the therapist because she would not accept that I didn't think about something in order to cause panic attacks >:(
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CLKD, I read this earlier which is more about the psychological side.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3558368/A-traumatised-mother-haunting-proof-mind-make-body-physically-ill.html
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I rarely read anything by the Daily Mail : I know that the brain can make the body ill, it's the fight/flight response. The article doesn't answer my question.
I've had psychological counselling intermittently for years …….. knowing what causes my problems does not ease anxiety when it floors me :'(
"some of your anxiety is physical rather than psychological. ……… " :-\
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CLKD, I take it to mean caused by actual physical (hormonal) things. It's different than psychological which comes from your thoughts. As in, I could have a panic attack over having to make a speech in front of lots of people. That comes from a fear of public speaking, psychological. But if I'm just strolling down the road on a beautiful day and a panic attack comes on with no identifiable trigger, that's physical. At least that's how I see it.
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It's the physical side which we can be reassured won't lead to anything worse so if we ride it out it will pass. The problem thoughts are harder to deal with. Does anyone have any good tactics to share re controlling anxious thinking?
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:thankyou: that's clearer for me and nope, no coping skills hence the need for emergency meds. :-\
I was 'taught' deep breathing many years ago which helped but I had to practice - of course, when I felt OK I forgot >:(.
Some people find yoga or swimming useful as 'shutting off' time.
Also don't allow the body to become hungry, which is my problem this morning :-[
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The experience of anxiety is exactly the same in both cases as it's an adrenal response, but the physical is triggered by hormonal imbalance and the psychological is triggered by anxious thoughts. So if it's purely hormonal, psychotherapy will not be of much help beyond stopping things spiralling further out of control.
In the same way that docs shouldn't throw pills at all types of anxiety, us therapists shouldn't assume it's all mind driven!
However, many people may not be aware of the subconscious thoughts behind their psychological anxiety and that's where a therapist can be of great help in working with you to discover the source.
In order to recognise the difference, if the anxiety hits at certain times of the day/month or when there was no obvious reason, like in the middle of watching TV, it's probably hormonal. As much as psychological anxiety can surprise us out of the blue, most would be aware of a situation triggering it even if they don't understand why.
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Morning JJ
I have no personal experience but The Man was put on Citralopam a few years ago for depression.
The first few weeks were a roller coaster of side effects for him. The one that sticks in my mind is when he got 'stuck' in the garden. He was sat in a chair on the decking and found he couldn't move, neither could be shout to me to go and help him. He persevered and the side effects died down, the benefits then started to kick in and they proved to be really effective for him.
I'm not saying this to scare you, but to give you courage to carry on with the Citralopam for a while longer as if your symptoms are due to it, they may well pass.
He's been my inspiration for gritting my teeth when I started HRT in January and carrying on through a raft of side effects, which sure enough, died down over 4 weeks..
Good luck.
Does anyone take Inderal bb?
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I did a 'search' Suzi and there several mentions …...
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Same thing as propranolol which I take in sustained relief form for essential tremor 😀