Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Minny on April 11, 2016, 08:30:32 AM
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Please can anyone offer me advice? I am so depressed. Am thinking HRT might not be the way to go? I am on day 10 of Utrogestan and my depression is getting worse by the day.
I started HRT in February, I started on Femseven sequi and I don't remember feeling like this on the Progesterone phase. The reason why I had to change was they just wouldn't stick even using Tegaderm over the top! I am now taking 1mg Sandrena gel and 100mg of Utrogestan for 12 days. I have spent the whole weekend crying and feeling hopeless and just don't want to be here I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel. Could this be the hormones?????? I have suffered from depression and anxiety throughout my life but have been under control for quite a while and out of the blue this has come on me. I can't stand it and don't know what to do?
Am seeing my GP tomorrow please can anyone offer me any advice.
Thank you
Minny
Is there any other patches I could try that stick. I don't really want to take tablets
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Minny - It you expect HRT to give you relief from anxiety and depression in such a short time then you are expecting toooooo much. You are using a very good HRT combo - it doesn't suit everyone but it is very early days. It takes at least 3 months to settle and finding the right balance can take time. If you have experienced depression in the past then possibly some ADs/SRRIs for the short term while you get the hormones settled would be a good idea.
I can't remember how old you are and what stage you are in your menop journey? If you are still peri then the fluctuations in hormones won't help - once the HRt takes control in 3-6 months time then you may start to feel better. What you are feeling right now is typical PMT before the bleed starts and this will pass - you can't expect to feel good everyday of the month I'm afraid. Dg x
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You may as suggested require anti-depressant medication for 6-9 months+ to ease these feelings, it allows the sufferer to see the wood from the trees ;-). Keeping a mood/food diary can help, one can then see if these symptoms are cyclical!
Let us know.
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Hi Stella Jane
Can I just ask the difference between taking the Utrogestan orally and vaginally, side effect wise?
I would be really interested to know the difference as only ever taken orally?
Thank you
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Thanks for your replies.
I am 46 and perimenopause. I am into month 3 of treatment. Stellajane I am taking the Utro vaginally and yes I would say it is gradually getting worse as maybe the Progesterone is building up, I really am hoping when I stop it eases off. I have been on antidepressant since I was 20 but have been stable for the last 2 years.
Dancinggirl I am not expecting HRT to relieve my depression but am quite fearful of something making it worse, it is just so scary when you are in the middle of it. I am trying to stay calm and think it will pass.
I am ashamed to say I have tried to commit suicide on a few occasions when I was younger and each time I did this and I was in hospital my period would start a couple of days later. No Dr picked up on this it was my husband that made the connection. It is like I really just go into a very dark place and have no control. I haven't been like that in a long time. Nothing else has happened to trigger feeling like this.
Stellajane I have looked at the treatment tab at the progesterones, I don't really like the sound of the Mirena I just can't find anything saying if there are any other kind of patches.
I am sorry if I am being impatient and not giving it time, I am not feeling very rational at the moment. Am so grateful for this site and the people on it. Is it possible my body will adjust to Utrogestan. It will be interesting to see if this passes.
Thank you all again
Minny
PS Mis71Mum I did have a go at taking it orally and had a lot of stomach discomfort and feeling sick - taking it vaginally I have had none of those symptoms x
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Hi Minny, I cannot help with any knowledge of hrt but I can empathise about the depression. Mine is hormone related I know and I was so against taking AD's again it is untrue (had them for PND 25 years back), in my situation it turned out to be the very best thing I could have done. I had no idea just how bad I was until I started coming out the other side. I started on 50g of setraline in December and increased to 100g and am now better than I have been in years. I also took CLKD's advice and I had a mood diary it made interesting reading as there was a distinct pattern.
I hope your GP can give you some help tomorrow. Meanwhile hang in there, there are many of us who have been there.
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Hi Minny
I really feel for you and know where you are coming from.
You probably don't realise it, but you are so brave and strong. I, like you, can tell when my mood is slipping and you'll do anything to ensure you don't relapse.
I don't have any answers I'm afraid. But maybe a change of HRT may be the best option.
How did you feel before you started HRT? Have you felt better on it?
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Minny, first of all, I am really sorry that you are feeling this low. I am also very sorry to hear about the years of problems you have been having that sound hormone related. The clue is how low you feel before a period which indicates you need oestrogen, badly, and particularly in the lead up to a period. I think Professor Studd is the best person to help you and I would recommend you make an appointment to see him if you can afford it, this is his area of expertise and he is the best in the UK for this.
I use Oestrogel and Utrogestan but I can't use very much Utrogestan because I am very severely intolerant to all synthetic progesterone and to Utrogestan taken in large quantities. I only take 7 x 100mg vaginally every 5 weeks (just changed from 4 weeks) and my gynaecologist gave me the OK on that and said, and I quote "if it works, for god's sake stick with it" because she knows my history. I would not be able to take anything like the amount of Utrogestan you take because it would cause low mood leading to a silent migraine.
Despite anything you might read to the contrary, Utrogestan builds up in your system and remains active for far longer than it says on the packet. The longer you take it, the worse the side effects will be. My advice to all women who suffer bad side effects from Utrogestan is to take a lower dose for a few months and then have a scan to check the womb lining. This is the only way to know how much Utrogestan you need, you cannot possibly guess and the NHS guidelines are a "one side fits all" policy but you might be like me and not need anywhere near that amount (about 100mg for 12 days I think) or you might be unlucky and need more the thing is, find out. It is impossible for every single woman to need exactly the same amount of Utrogestan and there is no way Professor Studd would prescribe this amount of Utrogestan for a woman like yourself.
One other thought, you might be better switching to Oestrogel because you can split the dose more easily and take 1 pump every 12 hours, it might help because it sounds like you are in need of a very steady and constant dose of oestrogen. I certainly wouldn't ever go back to patches - I didn't find they ever stuck well or delivered enough oestrogen.
I would not recommend you try a Mirena coil either with your history of depression.
I found it very distressing to read your post. Professor Studd has been trying to educate doctors on hormones for years but it still hasn't got through to GP level.
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Hang in there! Although it is probably hormonal, the physicality can get us down Big Time - it's like that when I have acute anxiety, I know what causes it and I know it will pass, but during those hours until the emergency pill kicks in :'(.
Dr Kathleen ? found out that Hormones are linked to mood swings, way back in the 1980s! why haven't the Medical Profession taken that on Board :bang: :bang: :bang: I also know of a girl who had severe depression after her 2 children …….. she became psychotic until the hormones settled, so there is a link, it is NOT imagination!
Make a list to take to your next GP visit ;-). Is this the GP that treated you after your suicide attempts? What AD are you taking, is it possible to up the dosage for 3-4 months? That helps me.
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Mary G thank you so much for taking the time to reply and your post makes a lot of sense. I will look into Professor Studd but I think I've read he's in London? I am in Lancashire. I think I will try less of the Utrogestan and see how I go on. My GP wanted me to take if for day 1 -25!!!!! There is no way I can do that. I wouldn't be able to function.
CLKD I am on Citalopram at the moment but only on a low dose because I had been determined to try and come off it. I have been withdrawing from it for over 2 years! I have had two different GPs this one has known me for a couple of suicide attempts, my husband and I have mentioned the hormones but nothing is ever said or done about it, it is so frustrating. I will see how I am once I stop the Utrogestan and if no better I will consider increasing Citalopram.
There just doesn't seem to be a lot of knowledge of hormones >:(
Thank you all
Minny
xxx
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Hi Minny
Just one piece of advice, I too am determined to get off my AD's, but please, please don't try and do it whilst getting a new HRT regime sorted. Try and stabilise yourself on HRT first, then come off AD's.
And if you're not successful now then, try another time but don't beat yourself up.
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BTW - this time you may have a cause for your depression....so take comfort in knowing that it can be fixed. It's not an unknown.
Take care.
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If you had depression for what ever reason: and ADs ease symptoms: don't consider stopping it now. Get your hormones sorted first! I take a low maintenance dose of 5mg night/morning, plus a beta-blocka - which is probably why I didn't have depression problems when I went into peri. ????? . ????
I have to take ADs for Life otherwise ………
Keep that diary! ;) Keep posting.
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Minny - many women need the SRRIs alongside the HRT to really get on top of the increased anxiety and low mood that so often increases when the meno hits. I certainly wouldn't do the 25 days of out 28 on the Utrogestan - this would be wrong for you. This may not be the time to reduce or even come off the Citalopram - I'd postpone any changes in your Citalopram dose for a while until you have got the hormone balance right.
Depression is so awful, I've had nasty bouts myself - do keep us posted. DG x
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I am so VERY grateful for all your replies, you have no idea how much relief they have brought me.
I think I go into panic mode when I think it could be depression returning! But reading all your comments it makes more sense that it is hormones and I take hope that at least with a bit of tweaking I can have some control over it.
I didn't take Utrogestan last night and unbelievably I had a better night sleep, I know for a lot of people they have a calming effect and help sleep? It could just be coincidence? I also took an extra 0.5 mg of Sandrena. I feel a little bit more in control this morning so to me that proves it must be hormone related.
Stellajane your comment on Utrogestan I also meant to add that taking Utrogestan orally just makes me feel completely loopy - wired up, dizzy, dopey, unable to sleep - ugh!
When I was first prescribed it, I was told to take 200mgs for 12 days - absolutely impossible!
Used vaginally its totally different, expecially using the 100mgs strength. Do give it a go.
That is how I have been feeling!!!! but I am taking it vaginally and still feeling like that. At least I know I am not going bonkers!
CLKD & Mis71- No I won't even consider messing around with my Citalopram the dose I am on at the moment I have been on since October so I will stay at that for now. If I have to consider increasing I will but I hope I can just get my hormones a bit more balanced and see if that does the job.
Mis71 Before I started HRT I would say I had low grade depression - I was in control of it. I really want to try and stick with the hormones because I was having painful facial flushing and lots of joint pain which on the whole has improved, so it is doing something. You mentioned about eventually coming off your antidepressant PLEASE when you decide to do this make sure you do it REALLY slowly. They say these drugs are not addictive but our brains adjust to them and you can have horrendous withdrawal and rebound depression and anxiety if you come off them too quickly.
Thank you all again and I will keep you posted
Minny
xx
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I can understand your impatience, and poor you. It does sound as though you have what prof Studd calls 'reproductive depression'.....have you read about it on his site? My problems are no where near as severe as yours but I too have refused to have a Mirena. My GP has agreed to let me try 7 days of Utrogestan 100 plus Oestrogel. We are giving it a go for a few months. I feel better on this than any of the other combinations that I have tried and I do think that the gel is better than the patches. I am in peri by the way and have started HRT to help with the really appalling pmt that I was getting.
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Hi Minny
Yes I'll take it really slowly when I do come off them....mine have tiny beads in them and that's the only way to reduce them by deducting tiny beads.
I got my period this morning and feel a bit miserable this morning, crying to a song on the radio as we speak. Hormones!
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:bighug: Mis71Mum it's awful isn't it. Hopefully you will feel better soon.
No I haven't read that article Trufflecat but will have a look now! Thank you xx
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Hi Minny
It's just the fear that the depression is coming back which worries me the most. I suppose because of my operation in 10 days, I feel under pressure to keep calm and also out of control because I can't rely on any gel to lift my spirits.
Fingers crossed, it'll get better. I have started spotting at least today, so it's defintely doing something.
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Hello I wanted to send you a big hug too I'm so sorry to read your post and identify with lots of how you're feeling. I'm 41 peri and went to see Studd in a total mess last Oct I have pnd, crippling pmt, depression and was feeling pretty desperate. I am a TOTALLY different person 6 months on. He diagnosed progesterone intolerance I use ostrogel and utro 7 days vaginally and was using testosterone too (had to stop as gave me acne on my back!) it takes take a bit of time but I also say you get one life get it back as soon as you can don't just brave it out. If you can see Studd I highly recommend it he will sort you out and don't be put off by the occasional comment on here about his bedside manner he is a brilliant man who understands all of this!! I've seen him give a talk on women for whom their monthly cycle can be a matter of life or death in terms of suicidial depression. It's totally unbearable being in that state, I don't know how I functioned but as Studd said to me when I met him 'it's all cureable' :) X
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Ps reading your post I wonder if you're progesterone intolerant and Studd doesn't advocate and depressants he'll try to sort hormones first but you may need as well X
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Minny, I agree with Niamh. I know you are based in Lancashire but if ever there was a person who needs to see Professor Studd, it is you. We are talking about something that could change your life and a trip to London would be well worth it. What have your doctors/GP done for you? Prescribing Utrogestan that length of time to someone with your background is clueless to say the least. What are their plans for you now?
Please go and see the best hormone expert in the UK, you deserve it after everything you have been through.
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Hi Mary G & Niamh. Niamh your post sounds so positive and shows there is some hope.
I've just got back from my Drs now and thanks to all your posts and advice I went in with a list and print offs from Professor Studds website. I am lucky that my GP does listen and he looked at what I had printed off and he knew of Professor Studd. He agreed - thankfully that it could be the Utrogestan causing me the problems so from now on I am only going to be taking it for the seven days!!!! Breathing a massive sigh of relief. We agreed that I should wait and see how I get on before deciding on changing or upping my antidepressant. I am seeing him again next week, so fingers crossed I am bit more "normal" by then.
If I had not had all the support from you lovely ladies I wouldn't have had a clue as to where to begin - so a massive thank you to you all.
Hopefully Mis71 once you have a bleed you might feel better, fingers crossed for you too xxxx
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:thankyou:
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Brilliant pm me anytime or post on here of course!:)X
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Btw what ostrogen do you use would your GP did you the gel Studd prescribes? It's so easy to use and flexible do you can find your perfect dose :) x
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Minny, well done, that's great news! Like Niamh, I am wondering if you have also switched to Oestrogel? My gynaecologist (and Professor Studd) prefer working with Oestrogel because they think it is more flexible and my gynae thinks you sometimes need a booster. Also, there is some merit in being able to split the dose to keep the levels up if you are very hormone sensitive.
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Very good news! Fingers crossed x
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Morning everyone :)
I am trying the estradot this was at my request because I felt really well on the femseven patch but I just couldn't get it to stick. But if that doesn't work I will ask for the Oestragel.
I am feeling so much better again this morning which tells me it must be hormones because with the dreaded depression it just doesn't go away like that. I am keeping a diary and I am glad I have put it all on here - so if I wobble again next month you can all tell me to read this back! ;D
Thank you
xxxx
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Yep ;D you'll get a :kick:
Little steps. Even if I know what is causing any anxiety symptoms etc., it doesn't stop the physicality of it all :sigh: