Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: GypsyRoseLee on April 01, 2016, 08:38:04 PM
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I don't struggle with hardly any of the traditional perimenopause physical symptoms. For me, it is the chronic mood swings + the awful anxiety which have so tainted the last 2 years. At times I have felt so low as to have some very frightening and dark thoughts. Other times have been so anxious that my poor DH has had to sit up with me in the middle of the night.
I have trialled various HRTs and the Pill for over a year now. But nothing has been consistently helpful for more than 2-3 weeks at a time. The mood swings, depression and anxiety always, always come back.
I have seen Dr Annie, and I'm trialling 3 sachets of sandrena + 100mg of Utro for 7 days a month (though didn't have any Utro last month as my own period started before I had chance).
So far, I haven't seen much improvement to be honest. In fact a few days into her regime my anxiety and low mood got much worse, and what followed were two weeks of absolute misery. Dreadful insomnia, feeling too anxious to leave the house alone, just wanting to cry into my hands much of the time.
Finally I broke down to my GP in tears. They suggested adding an AD to help, and I have been on 100mg of Trazadone for 11 days (I can't tolerate the newer SSRIs).
And for the last 5 days I have felt so much better. Finally, a bit of normality after roughly 6 weeks of just awful misery.
But yesterday my period started and BAHM, I'm back to feeling miserable and anxious again. It's just no life.
We have the money for me to have a full hysterectomy done privately. Dr Annie mentioned it as an option, and intimated that it is a very good solution to women who struggle like me. But said you now had to jump through a few hoops to get one, even if you are paying. I know Prof Studd is a strong advocate of it too.
I just can't really face much more of HRT, or taking ADs. It just seems crazy to take tablets to masque my symptoms, when it is my ovaries that are causing such misery. I hate never feeling any confidence that I'm going to feel okay tmrw or next week.
Any thoughts?
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No experience to draw on and share with you but wanted to say Hi and sorry to hear that things are still so up and down for you. It must be so draining xx
I think it is such a personal thing, perimenopause and the decision to have a hysterectomy. Have you written down a pros and cons list, sounds basic, but often with choices that can be tied up with emotion, I try this method to get a bit of objective thinking going.
My gut instinct is to put the caveat out there that there aren't really any guarantees, because we all respond so differently and an element of the unknown is always there. Saying that, listen to the advise from Drs and women that have experience and you might come to a conclusion that feels good for you.
Another thought is that I don't know much about why anxiety and depression can appear or get worse at this time of life and how that relates to the ovaries production of hormones, but I would hate to think you might go through a major op and the anxiety/depression was not altered - do you know how these things relate? For you personally and in general. It does sound like the AD's do help. Has anyone suggested to you to stop HRT and just try the Ad's? Forgive me if you have already tried this route or it's not appropriate x
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If you were to go down this route you'd still need Oestogen. I had hysterectomy, privately, in mid 30's, ovaries left, then removed 10 years later. Without HRT, IE oestrogen, I'm not a nice person to live with. Weepy, moody, in dire need of sleep.
However, having said all that, you may well be different, we all are. You really need to discuss it fully, before making a decision. I was so cranky before my hysterectomy, that for everyone's sake it was the right decision to make.
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Hi cubagirl
I like you had a hysterectomy 3 years ago and at the moment trying out taking oestrogen ( you may have seen my post few days ago ). Could I ask what form of oestrogen you are using ? I've been on Premarine 0.625 for almost 3 months but not noticed much in way of relief. I'm also using vagifem about 2xweek( since last year ).
Gypsy rose lee ......... I would say that hysterectomy is quite a drastic measure and may bring with it other complications / issues for you. I used to belong to a hystectomy forum which was so informative , just like this one . Perhaps give that a browse and ask a few questions to other ladies there that may have had similar issues to you prior their op.
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Hi GRL,
Think we have spoken before. We have very similar symptoms and a full hysterectomy is something I've often thought about.
I went to see a specialist about this a few months ago and he said he thought it would help but wanted to try Zoladex first for six months. He said the Zoladex would give me the same affect as having a hysterectomy so we could then judge if it would help me. His advice was that if the Zoladex didn't work, there was no point having the hysterectomy as the results would be the same.
Unfortunately, I didn't get any further than this as he was private and couldn't treat me on NHS but Zoladex might be worth a try for you.
Hope this helps.
Xx
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Hello GypsyRoseLee.
I've been thinking of you and wondering how you are getting on after seeing Annie Evans.
I think you've had some excellent advice so far and I can completely understand your contemplating a hysterectomy. I don't have any insights or experience to add other than I've always felt that without a uterus and ovaries you'd only have oestrogen to worry about and with something like oestrogel it would be easy to tweak the dose.
I know it's a cliche but it is early days with your new regime and improvement may be just around the corner.
Wishing you well and keep posting.
K.
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GRL - If I remember rightly, you are still peri meno and have only recently started your current HRt regime und erh guidance of Annie? I really, really think you need to give things more time, at least 3-6 months to really assess what is the best course of action. Nothing is going to be instant and a hyster is permanent and could result in other issues e.g. risks of bladder prolapse.
I know it is tough but try to relax, think positive, take each day as it comes and be kind to yourself. The peri stage is tricky but I suspect in 6 months you will look back and wonder why you were so stressed. If after 6 months you are still really struggling then that is the time to make more drastic decisions. DG x
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Hi
It's not something I am considering in the short term. But if I am still very up and down by the end of the summer, despite gold standard HRT and an AD, then I really don't see any other option for me?
After I had finished detailing my medical history to Dr Annie, I finished by saying I was prepared to write a cheque there and then for a full hysterectomy, as I was so sick of it all. She nodded and actually replied 'I am inclined to agree with you, but it's not such an easy operation to come by now, even if you are willing to pay.'
I got the distinct impression that trying me on sandrena gel + Utro was just a stop gap treatment.
I don't actually see a full hysterectomy as that drastic at all. Several friends have had them, as did my Mum and MIL. Just 3 days in hospital, followed by taking things very gently for 4-6 weeks.
I see waking my poor DH in tears in the middle of the night, or being signed off work for weeks or not feeling able to attend a family funeral as far, far more drastic and impacting on my life far, far more.
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I feel that you will need to try the injections which shut down your ovaries first GRL. This is the only way you will know whether a hysterectomy plus oopherectomy will help. It would be wrong, I feel, to put your body through this major operation only to still be in the same position. Of course hysterectomy is much better than it used to be but I still get problems eighteen months after mine due to my bowel not falling properly into the gap left behind - silly bowel - and also the risk of prolapse is very real. I'm not sure if you have a sex life or not but this can also be much less satisfying after hysterectomy due to the shorter vagina and the difference in orgasms. Consultants don't discuss these things with you but I can see that you are desperate to find an answer and to get back to a normal life.
I've forgotten what symptoms you have to be honest - sorry. Is it PMDD?
Taz x :hug:
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GRL, I'm so sorry you are going through this. I think that a hysterectomy is a very good option for you to consider. It's easy to talk about the side effects of a hysterectomy but what about the quality of life you have now and all the terrible symptoms you are suffering.
Professor John Studd thinks that many women in your situation benefit enormously from a hysterectomy and he discusses this on his website which you may find interesting.
I've PM'd you with some other information.
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I agree that hysterectomy might be a good idea but not before shutting down the ovaries first to see how the body will react to having them removed surgically? I wasn't sure if there had been a diagnosis of PMDD as this is often missed.
Is there any up to date info on Professor's Studd's views on hysterectomy Mary? I did have a look at his site before when a friend was going through similar bu could only find something from 2008 when hysterectomy was much more often advised than it seems to be now.
Taz x
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Taz2, sorry your hysterectomy has not gone as well as you might have hoped. I don't know how often Professor Studd updates his website but he only recently recommended a hysterectomy to me and I haven't got the same level of problems as GRL. If he had seriously changed his view since 2008, I think he would update his website to reflect it.
The other observation I would make is that GRL's life is a misery and she seems to be severely intolerant to all types of progesterone so that is yet another reason to look at the option of hysterectomy. That way, you can avoid taking progesterone and it makes HRT so much easier not to mention more effective - there is no way that GRL would get on well with the progesterone part of HRT.
I have yet to (personally) meet a woman who has deeply regretted having a hysterectomy and had their life ruined by it. Hopefully more women who have had hysterectomies will come along and share their experiences.
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I'm also very interested in this as I've been advised by both Annie Evans and Prof Studd that a hyster is prob the best option for me. I'm just terrified of going through with it and absolutely no change in my moods etc :-\
I've also read where women have sunk into the most awful deep dark depression after having a hyster.
I'm just so so scared of it not working and ending up feeling even worse than I do now!
I've been seriously considering trying the option of shutting everything down just to see? But what if moods/anxiety are still bad? Would the added oestrogen HRT help? But then we'd have to also use the ***** progesterone so would be back to square one! Or would they allow the use of just oestrogen and poss testosterone only whilst trying?
I honestly think I could put up with all the physical symptoms of menopause, Christ I think I have most of them anyway except the flushes! As long as my mood was consistently better. I'm not asking to be overly happy every single day nobody is that lucky! I just want to be able to not have to worry about how I'm gonna feel from day to day, dreading things, not looking forward to things and just existing :-\
I don't know? It's such a difficult decision when there are no guarantees :-\ but I do know 100% if someone could guarantee it I would pay thousands!
I'm about to try the Mirena on Wednesday, GRL have you tried it? I had it years ago and the only problem I had was spotting and light bleeding but I think it eventually settled, I certainly had no emotional probs with it and only had it removed as I thought it was causing me spots on my chin! ::)
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Hey GRL is your sandrena ultimately meant to override your own cycle?
sorry you've had such a shit time- i totally get where you're coming from having just had a suicidal period! i have awful pmdd but the period itself is marked by a profound depression- i ended up in a and e this time. with regard to zoladex/hysterectomy- i've had zoladex and it put me into a depression- however i strongly suspect it was because the add-back oestrogel wasnt enough to combat this- and i feel that i'm someone who very much needs oestrogen! i've been offered a hysterectomy for the same symptoms you have despite the failure of the zoladex but i'm too scared to take it up! i dont care about the surgery but i'm terrified of feeling like shit!! right now i'm on venlafaxine and when it works sufficiently i will try to obliterate my cycle with evorel patches. and if that works i will ask for a hysterectomy possibly keeping my ovaries because i could continue patches without the need for horrible synthetic progesterone. if that makes any sense! sorry not much help but want you to know you're not alone x
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That's interesting as I'm on 4 pumps and I believe that's enough to suppress my own hormones so does that mean a hyster wouldn't make any difference for me? :-\
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Hi ladies
I had a hysterectomy 3 years ago and I would say its a pretty major operation ......... I'm not saying I wouldn't have it again because I needed it but it's not just a few months recovering. I think if you have keyhole surgery is quicker , I had incision and a very long op. Too be honest I think it takes your body a good year to really bounce back to full speed again ...... I don't mean you have no life for that year just takes time to regain yourself so to speak. And as other ladies have said it can effect your bowels/ bladder etc ......... Plus your figure ....... I don't mean weight gain ...... I mean I've been left with a kind of waist that from the front goes in almost to my back but therefore makes my tummy stick out which in actual fact it doesn't lol ...... Hard to explain. :-\ :-\. It's obviously not the end of the world but there are alot of things to be considered.
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Yes the 3 sachets of sandrena are meant to opress my own cycle, but not sure if that is sufficiently effective?
As for the potential physical issues associated with a hysterectomy.. bring it on.
I think the well intentioned women genuinely have no.idea how desperate and despairing these hormonal fluctuations can make you feel to the point of suicidal.
Losing my waist line or potential bladder issues seems like a tiny price to pay for not feeling suicidal or utterly hopeless on a regular basis.
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Chi Chi what did Studd and Evans say about a hysterectomy?
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GRL
I wasn't trying to be little how you feel as I have not experienced what you are going through ..... I was just giving you an indication of hysterectomy pit falls.
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I know you weren't Jennifer, honestly.
It's just that I would LOVE to only have the physical tangible effects of peri menopause to deal with. Or having to deal with them post surgical menopause.
It is the horrible uncertainty, and constantly changing mood swings and floating anxiety which I find soul destroying. Trying to cope with them is like trying to knit fog. You feel so powerless and out of control.
If you wake up in the night with hot flushes you can open the window, change your sheets, have a cold drink etc. There are practical steps you can take.
But if you wake up in the night feeling riddled with panic, for absolutely no reason then it's so difficult to 'treat' it.
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They didn't really go into detail, Studd said it would be keyhole so minimal recovery time and only 2 nights in hospital. Both said I was silly to worry that I'd feel worse, and neither of them had any experience of patients this has happened to??
Spot on what you said about the physical symptoms of it all, if only it was that simple with the emotional symptoms :-\
I'm like you, bring it on!!
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Another thing to possibly consider is the type of surgery offered.My best friend who is a nurse said never have a hysterectomy by keyhole . Its a shorter recovery time but there are quite a few major organs is quite a small space .
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GRL, I am so hoping it doesn't come to that for you. Honestly, for my own self s well. You and I have different details but I believe the mental anguish is the same. Someone mentioned Mirena. With the issues you've had with progestins, I definitely do not recommend Mirena for you. In spite of all the doctor said about how the hormone only goes to your womb, I developed crazy migraines, non stop morning sickness, dizziness, hot flashes and well, basically similar to menopause symptoms, all this was years before the peri began for me. As for the hysterectomy, I've never heard anyone speak anything other than praises for it, but that seems to be the kind of thing that you don't hear the nightmare stories about until you're in it. Wishing you well!
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Hi GypsyRoseLee
I can't offer any information or advice about hysterectomy - but I am still a bit unclear as to what you are hoping to achieve by hysterectomy and the reasons for it - and whether you want just want a full hysterectomy, or a full hysterectomy with ovary removal?
Is it that the mood swings of peri-menopause are so severe in your case that they affect your mental health, so you need to control your cycle which is normally possible to achieve with very high doses of oestrogen ( as you are trying now) or various types of pill - which you have also tried (presumably you did try Qlaira?)
... and is it that given the above, you are seriously intolerant to all types of progesterone or progestogen that this prevents your getting the full benefit of these methods of controlling your cycle - because they involve taking extra progestogens? Sorry if I am being a bit dim here but I've lost track a bit - I know absolutely that the mood swings in your case are severe - but I am wondering about which method (s) you've tried - to control your cycle and why they haven't worked.
Although I haven't experienced what you have I can understand your reasoning - but I would definitely go with Taz's advice re shutting down ovaries chemically before doing so physically. Only really because hysterectomy is for life and you are so very young still - and peri-menopause will be over in a relatively short time although having said that maybe recovery is better when you are young as everything goes back into place better before lack of oestrogen and collagen makes everything lax and prolapse!
Or in your case would it be better to take the ADs for a few years until your hormones have stopped fluctuating in such an extreme way - and so that you could then revert to "normal" HRT - and still retain your ovaries and womb?
I'm sorry this is probably not at all helpful given my lack of experience but didn't want to just ignore your post.
:bighug:
Hurdity x
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GRL, I completely understand where you are coming from wanting an end to the terrifying mood swings of perimenopause as some days I've been in that place too. What I would say though, is that reading on here and elsewhere, that being menopausal isn't always a walk in the park either and some women experience anxiety and or depression when they are without a monthly cycle. I have a friend in her sixties who had a late menopause at 59 and now aged 66 is still very anxious and overwhelmed so perhaps for some of us, ADs are part of the solution as well as hormones? Obviously without a womb, and given you age, you could take oestrogen only and this may help but like Taz and Hurdity have said, it may be better to try something like Zoladex first to see if being shut down actually has the benefits you want. As bleak as it now seems, I'd be wanting to explore all options before opting for an irreversible physical solution. Without wishing to appear to dismiss your current mental anguish, it is easy to say you'd happily swap it for x when you don't have X. Some side effects of hysterectomy will be easy to cope with, but should it go wrong, I'm not sure physical pain, unhealing wounds or incontinence issues would be any easier to cope with and would in themselves bring the emotional suffering that you are struggling with now. It is still very early days with your new HRT and whilst wanting to feel better is understandable, you do need to give it time and yourself space to heal mentally before planning the next stage. The perimenopause can be hell and yes it can seem endless, but it is finite in most cases and it may be better to just see how it goes in the next 6 months or so before opting for an operation.
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chi chi i think you were asking whether a hysterectomy would help given that you already suppress ovulation with gel- i'm not entirely sure what u mean but if suppression with gel helps you then i guess that would be an indication that hysterectomy would work as long as you got a handle on the oestrogen supplementation afterwards. i wish you best of luck with coil- i have to be honest- it didnt work for me because: progesterone!! and of course a hyster would negate the need for it. it sounds as tho you, GRL and I have similar symptoms- god it's no fun! i'm just coming out of a horrible period- i was going to give up my venlafaxine as not yet working but lovely neighbour- a mental health doctor- insisted i keep at them- they need at least 2 months to work. so right now antideps are the way forward for me- i have a psychiatrist now thanks to my visit to the emergency dept....when i feel strong enough i will try to address my problems with hormones (oestrogen patches)- meantime i'll make sure i have some valium the next time terror and abect depression strike!!
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GRL you are in a very similar situation to me.
I too suffer with crippling anxiety due too PMDD/peri. Mine has got so bad I'm agoraphobic. If I have to go to appointments etc I have to take a strong sedative or else I can't leave the house as the panic attacks are so bad.
Last year I was given zoladex but not given HRT alongside it. As I didn't know anything about zoladex then I didn't question it. I went through hell, straight into cold turkey menopause with no HRT. I didn't go back for the second implant. Since coming on here I have learnt you should be given HRT alongside zoladex. Unbelievable that they gave me this at the hospital without HRT when I told them I was suicdal with the mood swings & anxiety. I suffered a month of pure hell and without diazepam I think I'd have lost my mind.
At the follow up appointment they gave me Evorel 50 which i was fine with but I only managed 2 days when it came to the progesterone part - 10mg of norethisterone for 12 days. I felt so sick and had constant panic attacks.
Went to see a consultant privately who gave me Utrogestan to take but only when I begged and he had to look it up in a book. As I wasn't impressed with his lack of knowledge I went to see another consultant privately. She told me to stop the HRT for 4 weeks as she wanted to do bloods. I'll be getting those done in the next 3 weeks and I'm having an ultrasound on Friday. In the past my bloods have come back with varied results some show I'm post menopause others don't. The last year I've had regular periods but the two years prior to that I missed a few. I'm 41 and sick to death of this. I hardly leave my house as the anxiety and panic attacks are so bad. Reading your posts my heart goes out to you as I totally get what you are saying. It seems there aren't many options. Like you I can't tolerate SSRI/SNRI meds. I've been given diazepam but that can lead to addiction so I'm careful. If all my tests come back ok and it's back to HRT I can't see that working as it would seem I'm progesterone intolerant so what does that leave? Like you I'm thinking full hysterectomy with ovary removal.
I'm going to ask about qlaira at my next appointment and see what her opinion is re the progesterone content.
I do know, like you, I can't take much more of living like this. Fingers crossed we both find solutions xx
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Wow haven't seen any post as similar to how my last five years has been. I too have been to a&e suicidal. Admitted myself to psychiatric unit thinking I was going mad. Eventually diagnosed as Peri at age 38. I had zolidex for 12 months with mixed results as still had fluctuations and they now believe it had not shut them down completely. I am now on buserelin nasal spray and estrodot patch but only 37.50mcg. It looks like now I have been taking too much estrogen as they thought with my age I would need a high dose. If this works it will be hysterectomy for me desperate for this to be the answer. Not many people know how debilitating this is and I am sure some people think if can't be that bad but I read this and had to let you know you are not alone or going mad. Sending lots of hugs xx
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Hurdity, it's basically wanting the extreme mood swings + the awful anxiety and low mood to just stop ruling and ruining my life.
Last year I was still getting 12-14 good days a month, with HRT. But since trying the BCP last Autumn, then Femostan over Xmas and New Year life has been much harder.
Since stopping 2/10 at the start of Feb I have only experienced maybe 10 'good' days. Otherwise I have been very low and often too anxious to leave the house (though I force myself). I have been signed off work for 4 weeks now.
Basically my symptoms are getting worse, but my bloody cycle still seems regular and very much in place.
When I saw Dr Annie she was undecided whether to try me on 2 or 3 sachets of sandrena, but told me to trial 3, but could drop to 2 if I felt 3 was too much.
Well I trialled 3 for 2 weeks but felt it was too much, felt wired and jittery, so dropped to 2, two weeks ago. Didn't feel so wired or jittery.
But on her advice, I went back up to 3 yesterday but splitting the dose, 2 in morning and one at night.
Slept quite well last night, no doubt thanks to Utro, but woke this morning feeling more anxious than I have these last 2 weeks.
It just seems so complicated and 'going round the houses' trying to control my symptoms with gel and Utro and even bloody ADs, when removing my ovaries and uterus would just solve it.
I don't want my ovaries or uterus, what would I want them for now?
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GRL how are you taking the utro? By mouth or vaginally?
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GRL - this has been a very interesting thread and it's thrown up a variety of issues. I think you have been given some very valuable advice and feedback about pros and cons - you are clearly not alone is suffering these extreme issues that do seem to be related to hormone imbalance but a hyster can throw up other issues and you don't want to swop one problem with another, especially if there is not guarantee that being without your womb will make the difference.
As you are still peri meno this could well be the route of your problems so the advice to try shutting down your cycle completely first seems to be sensible - I would ask Annie about this when you next communicate with her.
I can't remember if you are using any ADs/SRRIs? Many women seem to need both HRT and Ads/SRRIs to control severe anxiety and low mood so I would also discuss this with Annie - even for the short term a combination of things may be necessary to get your life back on track. You clearly feel so desperate and overwhelmed at the moment and I know how that feels - do be kind to yourself and try to concentrate on doing things that make you feel good. HRT can only do so much - it's not a cure all. Dg x
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Just thought I'd post this thread from The Hysterectomy Association (UK) showing that other women are going through the same http://forums.hysterectomy-association.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18391
I found this forum really helpful when waiting for my hysterectomy. You can obviously read posts without joining but it's easy to become a member and then you could pm the women who have had their hysterectomies and ovaries removed for PMS/PMDD to see how they were getting on?
Taz x
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She told me to take Utro orally, Chi Chi. I suggested vaginally, but she said no, orally.
Anyway, I couldn't have taken Utro vaginally this month, as my own natural period started just before I was due to start Utro.
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I wonder why she said orally knowing how intolorant you are? Did she explain?
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Thank you DG.
I do know there may be complications with a full hysterectomy, obviously. But I have had 2 c-sections and barely noticed them. I am much better at dealing and healing with something physical.
To feel so emotionally beaten down, anxious and sometime desperate is just soul destroying. Much of the time I feel I am just enduring the day, not actually living it. Certainly not enjoying it.
It is also so unfair on my family. My DH is fantastically supportive and our children are almost totally unaware. But they deserve much more than a Mum who is just going through the motions most of the time.
I have been taking trazadone for 2 weeks now (I can't tolerate SSRIs) but at the lowest dose, with a view to increasing it next week.
I don't begrudge taking an AD at all if it will help me feel consistently well again. In fact I desperately wish I had tried an AD much, much sooner then maybe I wouldn't have got into such a terrible state?
I didn't discuss an AD with Dr Annie but I know from other people who have seen her that she thinks they blend very well with HRT, often.
I think I got totally fixated on oestrogen being all I needed to cure the anxieties and very low mood. And the new NICE guidelines just enforced my fixation.
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Chi Chi, she didn't explain. But I had told her that I got on fairly well with Utro when I took it last summer, so she was probably going with that?
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Lisa789
We sound very similar. Though it's only this last month that I have been anxious about leaving the house. I have been forcing myself to go out, and when I do I don't have any panic attacks or anything. But I dread the thought of leaving the house, to be honest. Once out, it's never as bad as I have dreaded but I just feel much 'safer' at home. Bonkers I know!
I also hate being left on my own now. Again this only started about 4-5 weeks ago. Before, I have always loved my own company. But then I had 5 days last week where I felt so much better and confident and happily went shopping on my own.
Just so horribly unpredictable and life altering.
Like you I can't seem to tolerate SSRIs, but I am okay with the older tri cyclic such as Amitriptyline. Have you tried this? It worked very well for me when I had PND, and again 2 years ago when I first started the perimenopause.
I have just started taking trazadone which isn't a SSRI but is a slightly older AD. Two weeks so far, and no side effects other than a dry mouth. I am.on the lowest dose but will be looking to increase next week if still feeling this anxious and low.
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Donnachricton, it is just horrific isn't it?
At times I have felt I was losing my mind. Truly terrifying when all my life I have been so rational and sensible. Sometimes the despair is almost overwhelming.
Have you been offered a hysterectomy?
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Vintagefield it is just awful. The depression makes you feel totally without hope and the anxiety is crippling. Other people simply do not even begin to understand unless they have experienced it themselves.
Do you still get a batch of 'good' days each month?
I definitely wouldn't want to keep my ovaries as they are the things causing the fluctuations that cause the misery.
Did you see Chi chi's post where she said both Prof Studd and Annie Evans have never known.a patient feel emotionally worse after a hysterectomy + BSO (ovary removal) and said she was 'silly' to worry she would feel worse.
That gives me some hope.
Did they offer you a hysterectomy when you went to A&E? How did they treat you?
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Hi GRL
Stick with the Trazodone it's one of the kindest antidepressants side effects wise. I was on it in my early thirties for a couple of years. The dry mouth passes after a month or so.
You're not bonkers, it's hard for other people to understand the mental torture that this can cause.
I'll see what the consultant suggests at my next appointment but I think I'm wanting to try the qlaira, if that doesn't work I think that's the end of the road for me as I refuse to try anymore synthetic progesterone.
Good luck and please keep us informed with what happens. Xx
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What dose were you on Lisa? My GP started me on 100mg with a plan to.increase to 150mg next week.
Don't you fancy taking it again?
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Gypsy,
I completely get where you are with this and the feelings of desperation and despair. The anxiety that you experience is intolerable but I do believe that it will pass. It sounds like it is possible to take medication which would replicate the effects of the opp and see what you think but what ever route you chose it may take time to sort out and stabilize these terrible mood swings.
So my suggestion would be to look at ways to improve your mental and emotional health alongside plans to address any hormonal imbalances. I'm so pleased that you are able to share how you feel with your OH as I believe that this is a valuable are of support which we all need in order to get through this.
My top tips are..., when you are feeling at your least distressed and are able to view your lows more objectively then see if you can find any triggers. Despite the fact that the anxiety may be off the chart sometimes and seem completely irrational, I find that there is always something at the root of it. It may be a storm in a tea cup or something that you would normally take in your stride but just for the tie being, try and work out what your subconscious is scaring you with and eliminate it as much as possible.
If the ADs calm things down a little and give you the energy and clarity to make some changes to promote a more relaxed state and avoid any stressors then use them for the time being. Keep a diary and write down the worst times but perhaps more importantly the better times so that you will know that no matter how bad the bad times get...they do pass.
From reading the posts on this site it would appear that as we move through to full meno then moods and medication gets easier to manage so I truly believe that for all us peri girls....This too shall pass. It's incredibly tough at times I know and the darker thoughts are truly frightening but know that this is not you. It is something that is affecting you and that you will ride each dreadful phase out.
My last tip would be to make a serious effort to add some joy and relaxation to each day. Particularly aim to generate endorphins or remove toxins as this too will help to balance the less helpful chemicals and hormones. I hope you soon start to recognise more of your true self each day hun. x
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What dose were you on Lisa? My GP started me on 100mg with a plan to.increase to 150mg next week.
Don't you fancy taking it again?
It helped with my low mood but did nothing to reduce the anxiety and panic attacks. The majority of the time I was on 150mg but one bright spark told me to increase to 300mg. This was way too high and I was sleeping 12 hours a day and could never think straight as my head was too foggy. I would be open to trying it again and maybe the amitriptyline as an alternative.
I suffered with my terrible anxiety and panic attacks due to my hormones for 10 years now and I'm getting to the point where I can't take anymore as its destroying my life. Got an ultrasound next week then I see the consultant for bloods, smear and a discussion on the way forward the week after.
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Hopefully your consultant will have some good ideas Lisa.
It's the open endness that I find so soul destroying. If they had some clever test that could accurately tell me when I would be menopausal (and hopefully everything much calmer, hormonally) then I could handle that.
If the test predicted 'autumn 2018' then I would have a goal to work toward. Each day crossed off the calendar, step by step.
But I have no way of knowing, no target to aim for.
Going on my family history I 'shouldn't' be much longer? On my Mum's side my grandma was late 30s. My aunt was only mid 30s. My first cousin was late 20s and my other first cousin was mid 40s.
We don't know about my Mum because she had a surgical menopause at 43. But prior to her hysterectomy she had been suffering very similar mood swings and anxiety to mine from her late 30s. So she probably would have been menopausal by her mid 40s too.
I am 46 this year and just desperately want it all to calm down. Very soon.
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Really wise words and so kind sooby, thank you.
When I am feeling 'well' and my hormones nicely aligned I can be very rational and patient about my.situation. But then my hormones re align and I crash and become a desperate, slightly irrational wreak. Panicking about everything and nothing, unable to see any positive outcome and convinced I am going to be 'ill' for the rest of my days. Which just creates more despair obviously.
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And 'this too shall pass' has become my mantra.
Earlier the anxiety was just awful. I was sitting quietly in the garden, enjoying a cuppa with DH but inside I felt like flinging my cup into the shrubs and screaming into my hands.
But I gripped my cup and concentrated on listening to the birds, and it did pass. I think it was a combination of dreading him going off to play golf this afternoon (hate being left alone at the moment) plus I hadn't eaten any breakfast.
Just 20 mins after eating lunch I felt much calmer and was able to wave DH off to his golf with a small smile. Have been on my own now for a couple of hours (well our DCs are here but are hidden in their bedrooms.....teenagers!) and I have kept busy and not felt too bad at all.
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GRL, sorry to be boring but I'm trying to broaden things out a bit here. I know you saw Dr. Annie Evans privately but has your GP referred you to any other specialists, gynaecologists, doctors who specialise in anxiety etc and what input did they have? Sorry but I can't remember who else you have consulted.
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I've only seen my GP about my anxiety so far and he recommended trazadone as I can't tolerate the newer SSRIs.
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This is a useful and interesting thread. You may remember about a year ago I was told I was post menopausal and had been having all sorts of symptoms prior to this and a huge increase in anxiety along with low mood that was new to me. I spent a long time trying to work out what was going on hormonally, I wanted to understand the unpredictable.
To cut a long story short I have been much better for a while now and part of that for me was focussing on the anxiety first and not the hormonal imbalance. I made much more headway with that approach.
I am sharing because you say your cycles are still regular and I sense a tipping point that I got to and also my sister with PND where things become so scary you cannot help but almost panic on a daily basis. I really do think and hope that the AD will actually get things calmer for you and almost want to say ditch all the hormone replacement for now. But, I'm not a medic, just really wanted to put it out there that mental health in its own right gets less attention than I think it should and GP's give little emphasis to it. AD's and anxiety medication pulled my sister out of crisis and things improved. For me it was putting my energy into my mental health with the help of a therapist that helped me.
My periods stopped for a bit and are back now but at the moment I'm happy to say that I don't pay as much attention to the symptoms that I thought were due to cycles as I once did. I'm sure they are related but with less attention they are not bothering me right now like they did. They might again but for now I choose to try controlling what I can and that's my mind. Easier said than done, but there are many remedies for that, which gives hope.
I do appreciate how awful it is to not feel yourself, to wonder what happened, to want things 'back'. All those feelings relate to change and mental health and hormones play a part. Its such a hard thing to accept feeling crap and scary not to have a fix.
Maybe you could find a GP to talk to a bit more about the mental health symptoms and get their take on what approach they suggest. Hormone replacement and AD's or one or other or even the hysterectomy. You deserve to have support from a professional who can help you with the bigger picture.
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I have been taking amitryptiline for the last few years not sure how much it has helped. I have been offered ovary removal if I settle with buserelin with ovaries shut down. It has been years of hell I seem to have been having estrogen surges which are more difficult to deal with. If this doesn't work next step is to stop all hormone treatment which terrifies me😕
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I cried a few different times reading this thread. I so much relate to lots of this.
Sooby, those are helpful tips. I've just got to the point of trying to handle the anxiety and trust that the hormones will balance themselves.
I've been reading a lot about how the mind can get stuck in a pattern of anxiety and can be retrained to break that pattern. I believe some of that is what's happening with me. The strange thing is that in my life there were loads of stressors for a few years that I was well aware of and dealing with fine, then we had few big changes all at once that significantly reduced my stress. It was a month after these big wonderful changes that my "breakdown" occurred. And all of this coincided with my periods stopping. I know my hormones are a part of it, but I'm starting to think my mind simply became overloaded with the need to be stressed and not as much to stress about. Most of my anxiety and depression seems to be overreaction. I had a ridiculously small disagreement with my husband and felt so anxious for hours after, we later laughed at how being mad used to be my favorite state of mind and now I can't handle it. Right now I'm in a calm and rational state and can think these things through, but when the flood of whatever it is comes over me, I am absolutely sure it's hormonal and good luck convincing me otherwise!
GRL, I'm certainly not claiming to have the answers for you, but could there have been other things in your life that put you to this state? I'm only now recognizing this for me, and I hope I can come to grips because like so many have posted, I'm practically agoraphobic now. I don't really like to call it that because I do love to get out, when my mind is right. But I'm particular about where I care to go. I'm all right with people's homes, parties, doctor's offices and popping into small shops like the pharmacy, but my home is half an hour drive from anything, so I'm relying on my husband or friends to drive me, and frankly that's depressing to me. I can't wait to feel confident to go about by myself again, because as much as I love company, I also love to be alone and miss going out alone.
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Oh Lisa that is so interesting. Like you, I had been under huge stresses and strains for a few years. They suddenly got much worse 2.5 years ago and around that time my periods became very light.
Fast forward to February this year and suddenly these awful stresses were finally removed from my life. And within a couple of weeks of our lives suddenly looking 100 times rosier, I feel like I too had a breakdown. Anxiety to the point of mild agrophobia. Only sleeping 3 hours a night etc. Panic etc.
This can't be a coincidence???
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Having a breakdown after stressors removed is actually quite a common thing. It is as if we can keep going under stress but once we have time to pause and think what might have happened or just have daily stuff to cope with we fall apart. Some of that I am sure is because our bodies are still pumping out all the stress hormones that got us through the difficult times but we don't need them so are left fizzing with agitation. I had a very difficult time with my son for three years and then was diagnosed with diabetes ( I don't think that was a coincidence either) and managed but once he was fine and I was in control again of my body and moods , it all fell apart , just as my ovaries were giving up as well. I do think the advice to try and approach this via dealing with your emotional issues is a good one. All these things, anxiety, depression, menopausal swings are multi factorial to my mind and it helps to look at all angles. That way you aren't so despondent when one avenue isn't as successful as you had hoped, and you feel that you are doing something to help yourself, which I find helps rid me of some of the feelings of hopelessness and being on a rollercoaster with no off switch. X
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GRL. You sound very much like you're in the same place I was in 2014/early 2015...years of HELL. I know for me I tried all kinds of hormonal solutions which sometimes made me feel better and sometimes made me feel incredibly incredibly worse. I still have periods as well. The problem is in perimenopause its the spikes and crashes of the hormones that are causing all our issues, not necessarily the absolute low levels of the hormones. Taking additional estrogen when you have regular periods may not help as at some points you're going to have too much estrogen unless you take a whopping dose to try to shut down your own hormones altogether. That will produce it's own problems as well. Judging by the number of women I see still having symptoms while on birth control this does not appear to be effective strategy for those of us who are obviously extremely sensitive to hormonal fluctuations.
After about 3 years of total and absolute hell ( both mental, and physical) the only thing that has worked for me was Maca and time I'm guessing. As I get farther along, my periods are becoming lighter ( finally) and often further apart. This tells me my estrogen highs are less high, and the drops less severe. I also took an SSRI but i'm not convinced it did anything and am currently weaning myself off it.
I will still go on HRT when my hormones remain low, but consistently low estrogen doesn't happen until about 6 months to a year before actual menopause which i suspect is still years away for me. In the meantime it's the spikes and crashes. I too was offered GnRH ( the shot to put you into full menopause) but I was too panic stricken to do it. Now I'm glad I didn't.
I'd like to suggest Maca to you as something to consider as it really did take me from borderline suicidal to almost normal pretty rapidly ( month or two?) . It seems to be safe at least in the short term and what do you have to lose? Ask Annie but I'm guessing she won't mind. There is some science behind Maca and mood....couldnt' hurt?
http://journals.lww.com/menopausejournal/Abstract/2008/15060/Beneficial_effects_of_Lepidium_meyenii_Maca_on.24.aspx
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Gypsy when I was typing my tips to you my chest was feeling like it might burst as I was anxious about some life admin that I was trying to sort out so I know exactly where you are coming from with this. After I had finished typing I remembered that I hadnt eaten and I have found that food / low blood sugar plays a huge part in the anxiety / fight or flight response. Again, like you I have noticed that my OH being around can have a calming effect too.
One of the things that I have noticed from reading other ladies posts is what incredibly demanding lives so may of us lead. It seems that until the meno years, our estrogen allows us to deal with so many potentially stressful and emotionally demanding stuff without getting stressed. As a result we seem to keep ploughing forward and piling it on. Once our drop in hormones results in a drop in resilience however we suddenly feel the real effects of all that pressure and responsibility.
I find that getting to the bottom of what is creating the anxiety is very helpful. Even though my massive over reaction may seem out of perspective, it does originate from something real and genuine. So working out what that is can be a great help in removing the triggers. Eating regularly especially, slow release energy foods at night can also help to eliminate those horrendous, out of control night panics. Quaker make a cup of porridge sachet that you just add water to. How about trying one before bed?
Another useful tool is a note book and pen. Writing down what is bothering you and why that is, can really help to control the scary thoughts and bring things back into perspective. So if you are getting in a pickle about DH playing golf and leaving you home alone. jot down why that is bothering you. What might happen when he is away? Why is that scary? What could you do to improve it?Invite a friend round? Bake a cake? Pop to the garden centre? Book yourself in for a beauty treatment? Distraction seems to work well too. After all you cant worry about something if you're not thinking about it.
I know just how incredibly hard it is to put these things into practice when you feel so off the chart with anxiety but the more that you can recognise it as a false state the more you can deal with it objectively and shorten the duration as well reducing the frequency.
;)
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hi GRL with my experience i would say no dont go through a hysterectomy unless you have a physical reason for it ..iv been suffering all the symptoms you mentioned ..i had a hysterectomy back in october for 1st grade cancer of the endometrium everything was took away ovaries the lot i can say i still have depression and anxiety ..but the operation was a life saver for me its not altered the mental symptoms i suffer we are all different ..but im going on my own experience ..think i am more depressed than before the op to be quite honest, then there is the recovery after, unless theres a physical reason for it i say no x daisie
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Can I ask if you're taking any oestrogen since your hysterectomy Daisie?
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no.. the reason im not is because when i went back for my check up with the surgeon i did ask but he said there could be a chance of it coming back again with estrogen meaning breast cancer..my sister died with it at the age of 35 so im just soldgering on at the moment with the amitriptyline iv been on for 7 years but he said that if life gets extremely hard for me to cope with the depression to ask the doctor for a small dose x daisie
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Sooby - this post was so, so good - full of really insightful thoughts and advice - I do hope all those ladies who suffer badly with anxiety read it. Perhaps copy and paste this into the PERSONAL EXPERIENCE threads so more women see it. DG xxx
Gypsy when I was typing my tips to you my chest was feeling like it might burst as I was anxious about some life admin that I was trying to sort out so I know exactly where you are coming from with this. After I had finished typing I remembered that I hadnt eaten and I have found that food / low blood sugar plays a huge part in the anxiety / fight or flight response. Again, like you I have noticed that my OH being around can have a calming effect too.
One of the things that I have noticed from reading other ladies posts is what incredibly demanding lives so may of us lead. It seems that until the meno years, our estrogen allows us to deal with so many potentially stressful and emotionally demanding stuff without getting stressed. As a result we seem to keep ploughing forward and piling it on. Once our drop in hormones results in a drop in resilience however we suddenly feel the real effects of all that pressure and responsibility.
I find that getting to the bottom of what is creating the anxiety is very helpful. Even though my massive over reaction may seem out of perspective, it does originate from something real and genuine. So working out what that is can be a great help in removing the triggers. Eating regularly especially, slow release energy foods at night can also help to eliminate those horrendous, out of control night panics. Quaker make a cup of porridge sachet that you just add water to. How about trying one before bed?
Another useful tool is a note book and pen. Writing down what is bothering you and why that is, can really help to control the scary thoughts and bring things back into perspective. So if you are getting in a pickle about DH playing golf and leaving you home alone. jot down why that is bothering you. What might happen when he is away? Why is that scary? What could you do to improve it?Invite a friend round? Bake a cake? Pop to the garden centre? Book yourself in for a beauty treatment? Distraction seems to work well too. After all you cant worry about something if you're not thinking about it.
I know just how incredibly hard it is to put these things into practice when you feel so off the chart with anxiety but the more that you can recognise it as a false state the more you can deal with it objectively and shorten the duration as well reducing the frequency.
;)
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Thank you dancing girl,
I suppose my NLP and Hypnotherapy background makes my analyse my thought processes and se my mental state as set apart from my emotional or physical states although I accept that they are linked and all effected by my hormonal state.
I'm so pleased that you found it helpful. I find all your shared experiences, knowledge and support an inspiration. xx
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I don't know if its just a fluke, but my sister who is 49 had an endometrial ablation (D&C) a few months ago (due to heavy periods) and she still had the usual PMT for the first couple of months but now they have vanished. She thinks its because her ovaries have (via the brain of course!) decided there is no need to surge out hormones any longer now the womb has been physically altered. Its obviously a much less invasive op compared to a full hysterectomy so might be worth trying it first.
Also, with your anxiety, if its the surging, building up as if you're about to burst type, then beta blockers can be more useful than ADs as they go to the source of the problem, by dampening cortisol. You can take them as and when, and they just last a few hours and give you no side effects if low dose, although i also found they kept everything calmer for another 24 hours. The cortisol surge is very real and will make you feel that something terrible is going to happen, hence why you aren't wanting to be left alone. As for a completely inappropriate remedy, a vodka and soda can also be a good dampener at times... :-*
Wouldn't it be great if we could have that date to know peri will all be over soon! I agree, its the not knowing that is so hard. I think the reason things got so much worse for you is to do with the peaking of perimenopause, as I started off bad for a few years then went from light nausea and a little nervousness to extreme nausea and anxiety within 3 cycles, so there is a good chance you are due to come down soon. Do keep a note of your cycle so you are more prepared for the fall of hormones and then the anxious oestrogen climb to ovulation, regardless of your HRT regime.
I'm finding the week after ovulation is my only good week in terms of cortisol but the pill is dampening it for me (Brevinor/Ovysmen I've found the most useful as lower progesterone) but I know you tried a couple and they made you feel worse as i read your really helpful pill diaries. I think the fact that you felt so different from week to week on the same pills does show this was more to do with your natural surges, which is exactly my experience now. I don't think the Qlairia will be strong enough as the oestrogen is a lot weaker than the one in the pill and the progesterone is 4th generation which tend to cause the most side effects. i felt terrible on it when I tired it a few years ago (when peri was milder) and why on earth pill companies think its a good idea to make triphasic pills, so you can experience fluctuating hormones all month, is beyond me???!
Hang in there and do check about the ablation option as I think its just an outpatient procedure.
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Hi GRL
Not had chance to RTF yet as only got a few mins so apols if I am repeating what others have said.
Just a few ideas:
- Have you looked at the Hyster Sisters website? I've often found it very useful
- Have you searched through the previous threads of people who've had their ovaries 'shut down' as a hysterectomy 'trial'? I think (?) Donna Critchon is one?
- Although recent evidence seems to state that transdermal hrt is best, I know in my situation this is not true. Blood tests showed I didnt absorb it as well as a (bio identical) estrogen pill
- In general, you know your body prefers a lot of estrogen but is sensitive to progesterone. Why not give the Mirena a go?
- Remember that all bodies are different. The previous poster comments on Qlaira, but I would disagree based on my two experiences of it. It's not perfect (and takes at least three months to settle) but its the nearest normal I've had since all this chaos started three or four years ago. (You can always top up with gel). It's far, far, better (for me) than the conventional pill which, as you know, was a nightmare from day one. Dienogest (a 4th generation, anti-androgenic progesterone) is pretty well tolerated, and is especially good for heavier bleeds, hence the reason it's used to help endo too. Having the four different phases can be a blessing for some people, especially those who get hormonal migraines like me, as it avoids a long pill free break but does give more prog free days than other BCP. (That said, I know Chi Chi didnt get on with it so I am not saying it's right for everyone).
Above all, I would ask yourself which, of all the things you've tried, was the closest to feeling OK/stable? That's probably a good guide to what your body likes - then try to tweak.
Thinking of you x
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Hi GRL
Really sorry that you have been suffering, I had been checking the forum to see if you had been back online but expected that you were still poorly with your hand. Then logged on today and seen this thread.
Hope you are feeling better and have some respite with the new meds.
My anxiety and depression is back so I know how you are feeling - today I wasn't sure I'd make it through the day, do you know what I mean by that? Just this awful lowness and despair. I think my causes are slightly different to yours but the feelings are just the same, so I offer you my shoulder to cry on.
Anyway someone further up mentioned an endometrial ablation and I'm having one soon....so if that does anything for my hormones, I will let you know.
Mandy
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Could have written so much myself. Currently on prostap as a trial to see if hysterectomy will work. Have you tried this? I am a different person on it. My professor keeps saying to not let anyone take out just womv or ovaries. !must be both. Not read any other replies so sorry if repeating. Feel ur pain xx